Need help fine tuning my first cycle. Asking for advice from the gurus

[frorider6]

planned cycle

500 mg Sust 250 week 1-8
30 mg D-Bol week 1-5
.5 mg Liquidex ED week 1-11

300 mg Clomid week 11 (day 1)
100 mg Clomid ED week 11
50 mg Clomid ED week 12
50 mg Clomid EOD week 13

I'm looking to gain 15 lbs LEAN muscle mass.

My question is: I plan on having Nolvadex on hand (just in case). Should I go ahead and take it anyway? I understand it will somewhat hinder my gains but it will also harden up my muscles. A decent trade off for my goals. Should I start taking 10 mg ED weeks 1-13? Weeks 4-13? Weeks 1-11? I want to guard against an estrogen rebound effect.

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to gain pure bulk. I want ZERO side effects.

 

[The Iron Game]

I'm looking to gain 15 lbs LEAN muscle mass.

My question is: I plan on having Nolvadex on hand (just in case). Should I go ahead and take it anyway? I understand it will somewhat hinder my gains but it will also harden up my muscles. A decent trade off for my goals. Should I start taking 10 mg ED weeks 1-13? Weeks 4-13? Weeks 1-11? I want to guard against an estrogen rebound effect.

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to gain pure bulk. I want ZERO side effects. [/B]

Its quite possible to gain 15lbs of lean muscle. Diet here is the key

If you are using sustanon (I would go for enanthate/cypionate) then increase the dose the first week to or 250mgs eod for the first 5 shots and continue at 500mgs weekly split in to two.

Dont bother with the nolvadex, either get some arimidex or proviron, thats whats gonna keep you hard.

Peace

 

[The Iron Game]

I want ZERO side effects.

Then dont do your cycle

 

[TxLonghorn]

Gotta agree with TIG on this. If you want zero sides, or even minimal ones, you've made some bad decisions. Test and dbol? Yeah, you are going to have some sides. Look into primo and oxandrolone, otherwise, anything you do is going to have sides.

 

[frorider6]

Re: Re: Need help fine tuning my first cycle. Asking for advice from the gurus

Then dont do your cycle

Good point. Guess it wasn't worded very well. I just want to lower the risk of sides to acceptable levels.

My diet is in excellent condition right now. Best it's ever been in fact. Disciple is a hard fought battle sometimes.

I'm going to be using the Liquidex (arimidex) throughout. But with Sust's long release, I just didn't know how long to continue using it after my last shot.

I've read that you should always have Nolvas on hand, just in case. So since I will already have them, should I just go ahead and use them as a preventative measure instead of a reactionary one.

 

[Maxx Out]

Re: Re: Re: Need help fine tuning my first cycle. Asking for advice from the gurus

I'm going to be using the Liquidex (arimidex) throughout. But with Sust's long release, I just didn't know how long to continue using it after my last shot.

I've read that you should always have Nolvas on hand, just in case. So since I will already have them, should I just go ahead and use them as a preventative measure instead of a reactionary one.

Looks good but it seems that u have not done enough research.
Nolvadex is an anti-estrogen. U can use either nolv. or liquidex.
If u use arimidex then there is no need for the nolv. because it will stop the test from aromatizing which means little or no bloat and also no bitch titties. Keep on using the liquidex about 3 weeks after your last shot which should be ok---play it by ear.
Nolv also does NOT hinder gains.

 

[decem]

well frorider... i can give you first hand exp on the nolv, dbol, and test..

dbol - i will never take it again - yes, good gains, but i'm having some health issues (chest pain and trouble breathing) now that make it not worth it to me.. also, i did it with out liquidex and just nolvs and after day 5 my nips were a icthing.. so i took the....

nolvadex - from day 5 or 6 to now (day 13) at varying dosages of 20mg daily to 60mg daily depending on nip itchage. i even got the itch with only 10mg dbol daily.. but today.. no dbol and no itch - as far as nolva hindering gains it's all bullshit.. i've taken it for the past 8 days and in 13 days total have gained 12-14 lbs.. so no it doesn't hinder..

but i would definitely wait for symptoms before using.. the reason i used 60mg was that it took that much for it to work.. it's not a long acting resolution. i had to take one every 4-8 hours to stop the itch on the days i took the dbol.

sust - taken a gram already but you didn't really have any questions about this.. so i won't say anything on it.

 

[frorider6]

I've done the research.

From http://www.anabolicreview.com/drugprof.htm

Nolvadex:
...The antiestrogen Nolvadex works against this by blocking the es-trogen receptors of the effected body tissue, thereby inhibiting a bonding of estrogens and receptor. It is, however, important to understand that Nolvadex does not prevent the aromatization but only acts as an estrogen antagonist. This means that it does not prevent testosterone and its synthetic derivatives (steroids) from converting into estrogens but only fights with them in a sort of "competition" for the estrogen receptors..... Those who already have a low body fat content will achieve a visibly improved muscle hardness with Nolvadex.....

Arimidex:
...It is a tablet form anti-aromitase that is used by many body builders to help prevent bloating (edema) and Gynecomastia (bitch tit) associated with the use of testosterone and androgens... There is a new liquid form that was introduced and made available May of 2001 that comes in a 20ml bottle and contains 4mg/ml...


Arimidex prevents test from becoming estrogen, Nolvadex prevents estrogen from attaching to the receptors. I just need to know if it would be worth while to take both at the same time or does arimidex work SO well that you don't need it.

But thanks for the advice on using the Liquidex for 3 more weeks after my last shot.

Fro

Disclaimer: Fro has been in a shitty mood and has had a short temper since 9/11. No disrespect is intended to anyone. Just don't push it.

 

[frorider6]

I know many of you think I should front load the Sust. I decided not to because of my goals. I think I should get a sufficient enough kick out of the d-bol. I don't want to get the maximum amount of muscle gain with this cycle. For personal reasons (and if you've read a few key post of mine, you'd know why) I want to keep the weight gain at reasonable levels. Personal preference dictates a desire for very hard muscle also. Health concerns are a top priority for me.

Just because I don't follow your advice doesn't mean it isn't very much appreciated. I will always welcome any informative and civil discussion, even when I know you're wrong.

 

[decem]

I want to keep the weight gain at reasonable levels. Personal preference dictates a desire for very hard muscle also.

i don't know why you chose sust and dbol then.. instead of eq and tren or eq and winny or winny and tren or anavar and eq or etc etc etc..


also, i don't understand the muscle hardening effects of nolvadex.. it's not like it causes you to drop water.. did anything in your lengthy research session reveal this mystery?

and i gave you the answer to your first damn answer the first time i posted.. and i'll say it again.. SAVE THE GOD DAMN NOLVADEX

disclaimer: decem has probably more shitty stuff going on his life than you and has been in a shitty mood since 9/10, so i've had more problems and more time to dwell on them. no disrespect is intended toward you as long as you recognize the fact that i spent time to write all that bullshit out for you.. betta reckanize.. fool.. hope i'm not pushing it.

 

[frorider6]

betta reckanize.. fool.. hope i'm not pushing it.

You are pushing it, but it still made me laugh.

I chose Sust and d-bol at a time when I was going for mass only. But some things have changed now that I have it in hand. And I still need to add some mass, but not the shitload I could with this combo.

Anyway, I do thank everyone that has taken the time to give their advice. Even if they are in a shitty mood like Decem and me.