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Need a new direction

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Buddybot111

New member
This is what I look like as of today:
http://www.freidproductions.com/images/bodybuilding/04-27-08.jpg(linked because of size)

This is what I want to look like in the future:
425.pitt.fight.club.100506.jpg


I'm 18 years old, 5'6" and when I was 17 I used to be fat, excessively so. September of 2007 I weighed 210 pounds. Today I weigh 150-155 (it seems to fluctuate without changes in my diet). I still don't have the body I want.

To get to where I am today I did a few things. First, and I don't care what you say about the uselessness of this plan because it worked for me, I simply ate barely at all. Gradually, every week, I would lose 5-10 pounds and whenever I plateaued I would eat less. When I hit around 160, even eating under 1000 callories a day wouldn't help me lose weight. So, I switched up my plan. I started going to the gym nearly everday of the week (instead of the on/off style i did previously) doing cardio while eating 150-200 grams of protein a day while trying to keep fat consumption low and carbs under 30-40g if possible, total calories added up to 1500-2000. Doing this got me down to around 155. At this time I found out about HIIT and weight lifting. I started both of these mostly doing machines, and a really intense 20 minute eliptical workout with my heart rate keeping at a steady 160-180 during the HIIT.

Now I'm 150 on good days and still not where I want to be. I don't know what to change, what to add, what to delete from my routine. Before suggestions let me give an example of a few days of my routine.

Day A:
20min HIIT (not always possible as sometimes I just cant get the energy on 'A' days)
1 hour lifting (usually consists of, and excuse my informal terms, chest press at an incline, chest machine where your arms are stretched parallel to the floor and u keep them straight while bringing them infront of you so that they are perpendicular to your body with hands attached to the weighted grips, shoulder press machine, bicep curl machine, row machine with two different types of handles, squat smith machine i think its called, leg press, i do this exercise where I hold onto a 25 pound weight with both my hands and then left it straight up to my chin standing straight the entire time with the weight hugging my body)

Day B:
20min HIIT (again not always possible depending on energy from previous days workout)
Ab exercises (crunches, this thing where im on an inclinded bench and i stick my legs straight out parallel then bring my knees to my chest and then straighten my legs towards the ceiling, and a few other variations on the crunch)

Day C:
20min HIIT(this time I'm pretty much guarenteed to get it in)

In one week, i usually have 2 'A' days, 3 'B' days, and 2 'C' days spread out so that there are never two consecutive days of the same type.

My average day with my meal plan (and this stays the same through everyday pretty much) is usually consisted of this:

Wake up 5:30am
Meal 1(2 scoops of whey protein with 1/3 of banana, sometimes some frozen blueberries; a cup of zero fat greek yogurt (i love this stuff plus it has lots of protein for its low calories; maybe a 5-10 carrots; coffee) 6:00am
Meal 2(EAS Carb Advantage Protein Shake, 1/2 a cup of cold chicken cuts; maybe 2-5 carrots) 10:30am (forced to have meal2 this late cause of school)
Meal 3(Flax low-carb bread sandwhich with a cup of cold chicken cuts, or 7-9 turkey cold cut slices, or tunafish with very low-fat low-carb mayo "dressing" and a slice of low-fat swiss cheese (sometimes i use a low-carb whole-wheat wrap instenad of the bread); 5-10 carrots, or 2 pickles) 11:45am (again school forces it to be this time)
Meal 4(1/2 a cup of cold chicken cuts or 6 slices of turkey cold cuts or 6-8 slices of cooked ham cold cuts; a cup of zero fat greek yogurt; celery, pickles, or carrots, sometimes some low-fat swiss cheese) 3:00pm
WORKOUT @ GYM 4:00pm
Meal 5(whatever is for dinner as this varies alot, but usually chicken, or fish and some vegies or a salad on the side) 5:00-7:00pm


Now for what I want: to be ripped. I do not want to be huge, to bulk, to weigh more than what would be considered normal because of muscle. I want to be lean & mean. I want to have visible definition on all muscles, but not to be over muscular. I want to have a military marines body, a swimmers body, a navy seals body, if that gives you an idea.

I have no problem with changing my diet, I survived on 800 calories a day eating only a protein bar for lunch and whatever was for dinner I'm pretty sure I can survive any nutrtional plan you throw at me. And yes I will keep to it, I have zero intential of switching back to the person that I was. In fact eating for me now has become a fairly nonissue as far as cravings and mental stamina go.

As for the gym, I will try my best to uphold to any plan. With my current plan sometimes my legs end up feeling like a thousand pounds and I simply can not convince myself to get on the eliptical, so I guess I'm not all I can be in that area, considering mind over matter and all.

Today, just for kicks I decided to go on the treadmill (something I'm not really fond of. I was never into running, and my body isn't really built for being a good runner anyway, at least I dont think so). I ran an 8 minute mile, I think thats pretty good.

Anyway, hopefully I haven't dreared on too long :P

Please help.

Thanks much,
Michael
 
You sound like me a few years ago in some respect. Let me give a few small tips based on my experience (losing all my BF from hs football, working my way up in lean mass at your age).

1) Too many liquid cals in your diet as I had in mine at first. If you are in school precook meals you can bring with you in tupperware and store them ahead of time.

2) Train like you want to be a muscled beast even if you are going for the "fight club" look (won't take very long to attain)

3) Try not to overthink anything. Just do your best to train 4/5 days a week and stick to a meal plan you will be able to maintain.

Good luck =)
 
You def have to eat more solid foods like str8nubin said, or else you won't get that look. Even though he is very lean, he has some decent muscle mass. You have to have more calories to build muscle. Examples on him are the slight pop of his delts, obliques, and pecs. Diet alone did not do that, and you know he was eating whole food. Plus, keeping the same diet (very low cal) you have will have negative health risks later, so you have to be careful with that.
 
I haven't thought about the liquid calorie things. Does that really make a difference? I assume your talking about the protein shakes, but isn't protein just protein no matter if its dissolved in water or not? Also about the very low cal diet, as you can see I'm pretty much off that extreme right now (it was just to lose the massive amount of body fat I had before). I'm still in the negative calorie range, which is what I want considering I'm still above the body fat % I want, but I don't think im negative to any extreme right now. Could you be more specific on the weight lifting routine, cardio routine, and nutrtion diet that I should be doing?

Thanks for the input so far!
 
I decided to calculate my meal plan to decide what I'm actually eating. For today, which is an average school day for me and ONLY CONSIDERING MY FIRST FOUR MEALS (as dinner fluctuates and is not consistant to calculate, though i still keep up my healthy diet at dinner no problem), my nutrtion plan looks like this: CAL: 1180.66 FAT: 23.705g Carb(including those from fiber): 43.58g Prot: 196.66g

Hopefully this gives you guys a better idea for what I may need to change.
 
I'd fucking starve to death if that was all I ate! Do the 3x5 Ripptoe program that you can find in the training info stickie at the top of this forum. Do your HIIT on your off days. Take at least one day completely off of anything. You can get that fight Club look in no time. I predict that once you get there, you'll want to get bigger.
 
:P, I did alot worse than that to lose the fat initially. I'll check out this program you speak of. As far as the diet goes, I mean yes the actuall calorie count is low, but i want to keep losing the body fat so I assume hitting 1500-1600 daily (adding the unaccounted for 400 callories for dinner) while also consuming a very hefty 200+g of protein will tone my muscles while still losing weight, right? Please correct me if my assumptions are wrong and I need to do something else instead.
 
I think you're not getting enough fats and even carbs...at least on your "active" days. If all you're doing is sitting on your ass, then that's probably fine. You're probably inhibiting muscle gains and your body is using everything you're putting into it for fuel and then some. I guess that's ok for losing weight (fat and muscle), but now you're trying to build a bit of muscle while keeping bodyfat low.

23.705 grams of fats isn't even 2 tablespoons of olive oil. I'd probably increase your good fats, eat plenty of veggies (I love brocolli and brussel sprouts), and keep the carbs (other than veggies) low.

I'd bet carbs are probably your enemy. Completely eliminate carbs after 6pm (no desserts and no carbs with dinner if dinner is after 6). Only exception is if your workout is after 6pm and you're taking in carbs in your post WO shake.
 
I'm fairly good with the dinners. I never have dessert anymore. ZERO carbs at dinner is near impossible though. I usually always have something like chicken, steak, or fish and a side of vegetables or a soup for dinner. I never have anything with complex carbs or starches, ever...

The problem for me and eating more fats is carb density. Foods such as peanut butter, and nuts (conceivably the easiest way to get some more grams of fat) are so dense that just eating a little bit can significantly increase calories.

Also, you mentioned a post workout shake, how important is this? The way my schedule works I'm usually forced to take my fourth meal around 45 minutes before my workout, then after my workout its usually around an hour or so before i have my fifth and last meal (dinner). If I added a post workout shake, it would probably replace my fourth meal and therefore sorta throw all my meal plans off scew (id be really hungry from the hours of 12pm, after lunch, to my 4pm, my workout hours. And then id like im overeating if i had a protein shake and then dinner within an hour of eachother)
 
Buddybot111 said:
I'm fairly good with the dinners. I never have dessert anymore. ZERO carbs at dinner is near impossible though. I usually always have something like chicken, steak, or fish and a side of vegetables or a soup for dinner. I never have anything with complex carbs or starches, ever...

The problem for me and eating more fats is carb density. Foods such as peanut butter, and nuts (conceivably the easiest way to get some more grams of fat) are so dense that just eating a little bit can significantly increase calories.

Also, you mentioned a post workout shake, how important is this? The way my schedule works I'm usually forced to take my fourth meal around 45 minutes before my workout, then after my workout its usually around an hour or so before i have my fifth and last meal (dinner). If I added a post workout shake, it would probably replace my fourth meal and therefore sorta throw all my meal plans off scew (id be really hungry from the hours of 12pm, after lunch, to my 4pm, my workout hours. And then id like im overeating if i had a protein shake and then dinner within an hour of eachother)
Click to expand...

I think you meant caloric density and not carb density when talking about fats in your second paragraph. If you're taking a shake that's just protein (no carbs), then add a tblsp. of olive oil or two to it. Easier to consume than pnut butter. Veggies are fine. Like I said, eat as many as you want. Dinner would be something like a chicken breast and brocolli (no rice or pasta).

If you're not already taking a post w/o shake, don't worry about it. At this point it's not that important.

At this point, I'd say just implement a new routine. Get one that stresses progression (like 3x5 or 5x5), and keep a logbook. If you start making great progress, keep it up. If progress is slow or stops, then start changing your diet up.
 
are there alot of preservative stuff in the cold cut things your buying? if they are like lunch meat and have tons of added stuff you might look into cooking up a roast and slicing it up yourself for the week. were you on a timeline for how soon you would like to be like mr pitt?
 
I'm half-heartidly (sp?) into the whole natural organic thing so I try to keep perservatives to a minimum. The convenience, because of school, of cold cuts is pretty invaluable when it comes to my diet though so I doubt I'll ever be able to fully take them out. I did do this beef jerkey thing for awhile, but my mom got concerned from the amount of chemicals they have. The sooner the better for reaching mr. pitt status, but no I don't have a specific timeline. As long as I feel like I'm moving in the right direction is enough for me.
 
Thats the idea, though the discussion has been fairly focused on diet. I think I got the cardio part down, but still not sure what routine to lift with. I'm thinking of using http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/3-day-whole-body-toning-workout.html , which someone suggested to me; but, I've heard that lifting with high reps is fairly useless. I'd like a routine that tones me, but doesn't bulk me this way I can still lose weight. Any suggestions?
 
Hello again :)

I have walked down the road you are travelling and would like to help, but I'm not sure exactly what to write because there is so much to say.

So... I will throw this out there. If you care for me to elaborate, I would be glad to, or perhaps another would like to.

* Very impressed with your work ethic. But you can't attain the body you seek in a ~1000 calorie deficit. If you try to trim any more fat off, you will gain it back and more once you shift gears and build lean muscle.

* Total body workouts are not the way to go

These are not flames by any means sir, just trying to nudge you in the right direction. I am no veteran but these points are based on experience.

Also CEO had some good pearls of wisdom for you so far
 
Buddybot111 said:
Thats the idea, though the discussion has been fairly focused on diet. I think I got the cardio part down, but still not sure what routine to lift with. I'm thinking of using http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/3-day-whole-body-toning-workout.html , which someone suggested to me; but, I've heard that lifting with high reps is fairly useless.
Click to expand...


There are too many crappy machine exercises in that w/o you posted above.

Listen to ceo when he told you to do the rippetoe 3 x 5 workout here in the training vault.

I'd like a routine that tones me, but doesn't bulk me this way I can still lose weight. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Dude, you have no muscle what so ever, you need to put on some actual size/ muscle.

Ed Norton is skinny in fight club, but even he has some muscle. No matter what you do you're not going to put on any "bulk" over night. You need a program that is going to add size as quick as possible and the mark rippetoe 3 x 5 beginner w/o will get you there.
 
I too was a fatass not too long ago. (Just last Sept) After I read Tom Venutos ebook, "Feed the Muscle, Burn the Fat", my whole outlook on diet was changed. I started doing what I read about and dropped quite a bit of fat while keeping all the muscle I had been working out for!

Believe me, It doesn't matter, you're not gonna "blow UP" if you work out hard. Everything comes gradually and I promise when you add muscle, you'll see it and think, "I like this!" and want to keep doing it.

You have a good starting point now and at a great age to get your body started in the right direction.

Also, food is actually your friend whn it comes to getting lean and adding muscle. I was scared to death to eat when I was trying to lose fat, but that is exactly what you must do!!

Here is a typical day for me, although I am larger so your diet will be slightly less:

4:30AM:
3 egg whites,1 whole egg
1 apple
piece of toast
cup of steel cut oatmeal with big scoop of natural PB and scoop of whey protien

7:30AM: PB sandwich

9AM: oatmeal as prepared above (AGAIN)

12PM workout then Protein shake with banana

2PM: Chicken breast with brown rice and veggies

4PM can of tuna and some kind of whole grain

7ish: dinner with family, usually chicken, sweet potato and veggies.

Sometimes a protein shake before bed. Depends if I am bulking or not

Still my diet isn't perfect by no means, but that should give you an idea of what you should do.

So you see you have to eat alot to lose fat!! Don't be afraid to eat!!!



So, send me a PM and I'll help you out further!
 
Last edited:
Dope is right =)

The reason that we are talking about diet moreso than anything, it is a prerequisite to your goals. That can be sorted easily once you get over the mental hurdle of eating more once again. If he is offering to help you 1 on 1 I would take him up on it. Ex-fatties unite :chomp:
 
Yes, nice work. Keep upping the calories until you reach a surplus. It is so difficult to eat more right now because your metabolism has slowed to a crawl on the old diet. This is why you had to become more and more drastic with your training and diet to keep the scale moving. Your body had regulated itself for survival.

As you increase the cals and continue exercise the metabolism will speed up and appetite will return. This is the environment you need to be in to reach your goal.

I know its weird eating more again and I won't lie to you, there will be a slight fat rebound occuring soon. Do not panic and reduce cals again, just stay on course. The fat rebound is temporary, and not as pronounced as you'll think. You will gain a some fat but also muscle with resistance exercise. With as close an eye on your diet as you have, and considering you are starting out, you will have another 10-15 pounds of muscle before you know it and a little (insignificant) excess flab. You know what to do with that flab once you're there of course. :artist:
 
im a nub at lifting and have been doing the 3x5 workout for about 2 months now and love it. id really advise looking into it. i also am more of a light weight and would like to be chiseled like that but what has been said is true. u will need some muscle 1st to work with 1st. i think once you start lifting and see the results u will switch from wanting to have the fight club look to more of a 300 look. i know i wanted to be lean and cut then i was like... why not be a beast whos lean and cut. kinda like that dood on the omega project
 
The moves for the 3x5 workout look a little complicated, at least enough to warrant probably a personal trainer to walk you through them. I don't want to pay for a session with a trainer so I don't think that plan is going to work out. Plus, I'm not even sure where some of the equipment for the moves is in my gym. Thanks to everyone who has helped so far. I've learned tons and am continueing to do so, hopefully this new diet will reap some benefits.
 
NOOOO!!!!! dont give up on the 3x5. ill give u that the powerclean is a bit difficult to get down but all the rest u can do, all you need is a barbell and weights. so find a bench and a squat rack and your good to go. if your not sure on the lifts goto youtube and type in each weight and watch a few videos. theres some very good how to videos that show you how a lift is done. and start light.

when i started the 3x5 2 months ago i didnt know what weights to use so i started with just the bar on basically all lifts. and climbed up each time, this is a great way to get form down while the weight is still light and less of a chance to injure yourself. and if all else fails watch the videos on youtube and find some guys in the gym who are doing the lift your doing and ask them for pointers or to critique you. most guys at the gym should be nice enough to help you if you just ask.
 
I tried the squat and the bench press today. I'm not sure if I did either right. With the squat I could not get parallel to the ground and my feet always kept turning outwards with the weight slowly being more and more distributed to the toes as I went further down (which i hear is BAD). Also, my chest seemed to push out during the squat making my back curve inwards, not sure if thats normal but it wasnt that great of a feeling. Lastly, I'm apparently not tall enough to actually lean forward and lift the bar off of its resting rack with my shoulders; instead I have to get under it and lift it up with my hands then place it on my shoulders which can become difficult I imagine once the weight starts to increase (I used just the bar by itself). As for the bench, I think it went well. A few things though is that the bar seemed to wobble, it was very unsteady for me and I'm not sure if thats normal as it seems to keep straight for all the videos that I watched. Also I felt it more in my arms than any other place when its supposed to be working your chest is it not?
 
Buddybot111 said:
I tried the squat and the bench press today. I'm not sure if I did either right. With the squat I could not get parallel to the ground and my feet always kept turning outwards with the weight slowly being more and more distributed to the toes as I went further down (which i hear is BAD). Also, my chest seemed to push out during the squat making my back curve inwards, not sure if thats normal but it wasnt that great of a feeling. Lastly, I'm apparently not tall enough to actually lean forward and lift the bar off of its resting rack with my shoulders; instead I have to get under it and lift it up with my hands then place it on my shoulders which can become difficult I imagine once the weight starts to increase (I used just the bar by itself). As for the bench, I think it went well. A few things though is that the bar seemed to wobble, it was very unsteady for me and I'm not sure if thats normal as it seems to keep straight for all the videos that I watched. Also I felt it more in my arms than any other place when its supposed to be working your chest is it not?
Click to expand...

Your toes should be pointed out slightly. Your back sounds like it was arched like it was supposed to be. Like was said, watch some videos and practice.

The wobbly bench is just because your muscle aren't accustomed to such a move or are unevenly strong, if that makes sense. When you do it a few more times you should be able to hold it steady. You may also have not had your grip far enough apart. The wider you go the more you will feel it in your chest. Though it does work your triceps, lats and front delts too.
 
i think the 3x5 forum post breaks down kinda how to do each move. and this is also why you are starting light with the weights so u trouble shoot things and figure out how the movements work. when i do squats i pinch my shoulder blades back kinda puff up your chest. the goal is to keep your back from hunching over. the weight on yours toes ull get rid of with practice and not leaning forward over them. your wanting to push up with your heels. but these things are all things you can take care of while the weight is light.

about the squat rack... is it adjustable to lower it? if its the box kind they normally can be adjusted and should be adjusted to protect yourself specifically the lower rails so if the weights to heavy and your going down it stops at a safe high and doesnt fall ontop of you.

for bench some hints that help me are keeping my feet firmly placed on the ground. i pinch my shoulder blades together while doing the lift. keep your butt on the bench. arms shoulder width apart.*different grips on bench focus more on specific muscles* i had to play around with my grip to get it to where i liked it. but a wobbly bench is just like dopename said. your just getting used to the lift and muscle are learning to balance it out. and the thing that helped me the most was not worrying about what other people in the gym think. or be embarrassed about what weight your lifting
 
Well it looks like I got my diet down to a science. My fitday profile shows that I'm not eating around 2000-2200 calories a day with a ratio of about 25%fat/50%prot/25%carb give or take some. As for exercise, cardio is going well I'm slowly trying to learn the proper form for weight lifting on compound moves. I don't have a lot of extra time though to learn this, so it's going slowly.

Thanks for everyone who has helped. I've learned tons and though I haven't noticed a change in myself yet (its only been a few days!) I think this new direction for me is a definite improvement thanks to you. Please let me know after reviewing my fitday if you see any weakpoints or just in general anything that needs a tweak or even a major change.
 
keep with the lifting and focus on the moves and in no time you will feel comfortable with the movements and start climbing up in weight. i look forward to seeing the progress. good luck
 
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