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Natural Killers
- Thread starter javaguru
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javaguru
Banned
As I read the article it seemed to me that a lack of social conscience seemed to be the critical factor for the "natural killer." Maybe that's because I fit the criteria completely except for lacking a social conscience. 
The Myers Briggs type most likely to be a natural killer is an ESTP and I'm an ENTP.
Regardless, a very interesting read.
The Myers Briggs type most likely to be a natural killer is an ESTP and I'm an ENTP.Regardless, a very interesting read.
javaguru
Banned
A more post friendly version;
Natural Born Killers
Very interesting article on the best kind of soldier - the one who can kill without remorse or compunction. My comments are at the end.
A natural killer is a person who has a predisposition to kill—he enjoys combat and feels little or no remorse about killing the enemy. These men have existed throughout the history of warfare, and their feats have often been hailed as heroic. They constitute less than 4 percent of the force, yet some studies show that they do almost half of the killing.
It is important to identify natural killers before combat, because these soldiers are both a vital asset and a potential liability—correctly positioning them in a unit can turn the tide of battle. To better understand the importance of identifying these soldiers, one should understand what makes soldiers kill, the characteristics of natural killers and their battlefield capabilities and limitations.
More inside...
A temperament for killing exists among some human beings. Marshall, in identifying the battlefield fighters, said, "the same names continued to reappear as having taken the initiative, and relatively few fresh names were added to the list on any day."7 A post-World War II study by R. L. Swank and W. E. Marchand proposed that 2 percent of soldiers were "aggressive psychopaths" who did not suffer from the normal remorse or trauma associated with killing.8 I use the word suffer because when the job of the soldier is to kill, those fettered by their conscience are suffering while doing their job. We tend to shun the concept of the willing killer because it offends our kinder sensibilities, but a controlled psychopath is an asset on the killing fields. Those who possess such a temperament are natural killers and many have served this country well. The problem lies in identifying these individuals and positioning them where they can be most effective.
...
psychopath...sociopath, antisocial personality type or undercontrolled personality type...someone who lacks social emotions and often resorts to violence, deception or manipulation as a means to get what he wants. These people constitute 3 to 4 percent of the male population and 1 percent of the female.10 Such people who enter the military are not monsters waiting to be released. They can be level-headed, productive soldiers, and if put into the right situation, they will kill the enemy aggressively and without remorse. If these soldiers are in our units, how can we identify them?
A predisposition to kill is the result of genetics and early childhood experience. There are common traits that are indicative of natural killers. While the collection of these traits is not absolutely deterministic of a killer, it is a good framework for identifying those who may have this propensity. In general, the natural killer found in the US Army lacks social emotions, is a later son (not first-born), got into frequent fights as a child, enjoys contact sports, is from a middle or upper class background, is an extrovert, has above-average intelligence and a caustic sense of humor.
While no specific violence gene has yet been isolated [see below], there is ample evidence to suggest that violent tendencies are inherited. Researcher D.C. Rowe posits that some individuals have a genotype that disposes them to antisocial behavior.11 These individuals are characterized by a deficit of social emotions which include love, shame, guilt, empathy and remorse. They are keen predictors of other people’s behavior. Unbridled by emotions, they rely solely on actuarial data to predict outcomes, never resorting to feelings or hunches.12 They focus on short-term outcomes without taking into account the emotional reactions of those with whom they are dealing. Thus they may come across as cold, impersonal and manipulative.
As previously mentioned, the natural killer is most likely not a first-born son. Later sons are generally more aggressive and have less fear or anxiety in dangerous situations. ...Later borns, by virtue of being routinely dominated by their siblings, ultimately feel less fear during stressful situations. They also feel the need to prove their worth over their siblings and more quickly accept dangerous challenges...The military provides ample displacement outlets for this aggression in the form of physical training, field maneuvers and weapons ranges. It is the perfect environment for a sociopath to excel.
...
The natural killer is an aggressive athlete whose physical makeup allows him to excel at contact sports.
...
fighters had a high masculinity factor or outdoors adventurousness about them. Their body types were larger; on average they were an inch taller and eight pounds heavier than the nonfighters. They were rugged individuals who had channeled their aggressions through contact sports.
Another discriminator for identifying natural killers is their socio-economic background. Natural killers usually come from a middle or upper class background. The volunteer military has had the luxury to pick and choose those who will be allowed into the service, and we exclude those with criminal records. Sociopaths follow a "cheater strategy" to obtain what they want.21 The lack of a social conscience allows the sociopath to cheat without remorse. Consequently, those who find themselves in the economically disadvantaged lower class will resort to crime unless placed in a highly controlled environment. In other words, a sociopath from a depressed economic background will most likely have a criminal record, and under today’s standards, he would not be able to enter the military. Thus, natural killers in the US military will most likely come from a middle or upper class background.
Sociopaths are generally extroverts. One reason for this is the inheritance of a nervous system that is relatively insensitive to low levels of stimulation. Individuals with this physiotype tend to be extroverted.22
...
The natural killer has above-average intelligence. Like sociopaths with no economic resources, those without above-average intelligence end up in jail. Therefore, sociopaths in our military are usually intelligent.
...
Additionally, the natural killer has a caustic sense of humor that relies on sharp wit and biting sarcasm.26
...
Personality-type testing may also identify natural killers. One such test already in use by the military is the Myers-Briggs personality-type test. Considering the characteristics discussed above, the natural killer would most likely be an ESTP (extroverted, sensory, thinking, perceiving) personality type on this test.
...
Matching the ESTP personality type to intelligent, caustic, later sons will help identify potential natural killers. ... Personality-type testing at initial entry could identify and help place natural killers where they can best employ their talent—in infantry, armor and special operations units.
...
The individual soldier does make a difference on the killing fields. The natural killer is a vital asset to a unit because he is a killing machine that will turn the tide of battle when the chips are down. During World War II, 40 percent of the US Army Air Forces’ air-to-air killing was done by 1 percent of its pilots. Marshall’s work and the HumRRO study both found that a small percentage of soldiers did most of the fighting. It is not enough to rely on conditioning to produce killers—genetics and childhood environment have already molded them.
...
Atrocities are the result of the release of pent-up hostilities—not a characteristic of sociopaths who live for the moment. Natural killers may participate in atrocities but they will not initiate them.
...
Consequently, many of these individuals seek out fast-paced specialty units such as Airborne, Ranger or Special Forces units.32 The natural killer will become bored in a regular unit and may seek the stimuli of sports, fighting or drugs. Natural killers are motivated by competition and excitement, not a sense of sacrifice—they are not the kind of soldiers who will leap on a grenade to protect others.
...
Another characteristic of the natural killer is to usurp authority in a crisis to turn the tide of battle.
...
If there is a well-defined decisive point of the battle, the commander may choose to place natural killers at that point. They will provide that final measure of resolve in the assault or become the defense linchpin. ... Quick to take charge, they will move to the sound of the guns unless tightly controlled.
There are several leads on the molecular biology of the "violence-genetics" correlation mentioned above. One of themshould be familiar to GNXP readers from last year:
...individuals having the combination of low-activity MAOA genotype and maltreatment were only 12% of the male birth cohort, [yet] they accounted for 44% of the cohort's violent convictions, yielding an attributable risk fraction (11%) comparable to that of the major risk factors associated with cardiovascular disease (37). Moreover, 85% of cohort males having a low-activity MAOA genotype who were severely maltreated developed some form of antisocial behavior. Both attributable risk and predictive sensitivity indicate that these findings could inform the development of future pharmacological treatments. The summary from Science:
The study by Caspi et al. (9) also analyzed a promoter region polymorphism, in this case for the gene encoding monoamine oxidase A (MAOA), an enzyme that breaks down the neurotransmitters serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine. Although the MAOA gene had previously been implicated in aggression and impulse control in both humans and rodents (10), this transcriptional variant had not been associated with personality traits (11). Caspi et al. hypothesized that the effect of the gene would be more readily revealed if the environment were explicitly taken into account.
Their study group was a large birth cohort, representative of the male population of New Zealand, whose development had been carefully followed for 26 years. The environmental variable of interest was childhood maltreatment, and the outcome was a composite measure of antisocial behavior. Although the MAOA genotype by itself failed to predict antisocial behavior, there was a significant interaction with childhood history; individuals with both a low-activity genotype and previous maltreatment were by far the most likely to have committed a violent crime and to be diagnosed with conduct disorder. Over 85% of the males who had both "bad genes" and a "bad environment" developed some form of antisocial behavior by the time they were 26. It will now be crucial to repeat this intriguing finding on other populations with documented developmental histories.
Natural Born Killers
Very interesting article on the best kind of soldier - the one who can kill without remorse or compunction. My comments are at the end.
A natural killer is a person who has a predisposition to kill—he enjoys combat and feels little or no remorse about killing the enemy. These men have existed throughout the history of warfare, and their feats have often been hailed as heroic. They constitute less than 4 percent of the force, yet some studies show that they do almost half of the killing.
It is important to identify natural killers before combat, because these soldiers are both a vital asset and a potential liability—correctly positioning them in a unit can turn the tide of battle. To better understand the importance of identifying these soldiers, one should understand what makes soldiers kill, the characteristics of natural killers and their battlefield capabilities and limitations.
More inside...
A temperament for killing exists among some human beings. Marshall, in identifying the battlefield fighters, said, "the same names continued to reappear as having taken the initiative, and relatively few fresh names were added to the list on any day."7 A post-World War II study by R. L. Swank and W. E. Marchand proposed that 2 percent of soldiers were "aggressive psychopaths" who did not suffer from the normal remorse or trauma associated with killing.8 I use the word suffer because when the job of the soldier is to kill, those fettered by their conscience are suffering while doing their job. We tend to shun the concept of the willing killer because it offends our kinder sensibilities, but a controlled psychopath is an asset on the killing fields. Those who possess such a temperament are natural killers and many have served this country well. The problem lies in identifying these individuals and positioning them where they can be most effective.
...
psychopath...sociopath, antisocial personality type or undercontrolled personality type...someone who lacks social emotions and often resorts to violence, deception or manipulation as a means to get what he wants. These people constitute 3 to 4 percent of the male population and 1 percent of the female.10 Such people who enter the military are not monsters waiting to be released. They can be level-headed, productive soldiers, and if put into the right situation, they will kill the enemy aggressively and without remorse. If these soldiers are in our units, how can we identify them?
A predisposition to kill is the result of genetics and early childhood experience. There are common traits that are indicative of natural killers. While the collection of these traits is not absolutely deterministic of a killer, it is a good framework for identifying those who may have this propensity. In general, the natural killer found in the US Army lacks social emotions, is a later son (not first-born), got into frequent fights as a child, enjoys contact sports, is from a middle or upper class background, is an extrovert, has above-average intelligence and a caustic sense of humor.
While no specific violence gene has yet been isolated [see below], there is ample evidence to suggest that violent tendencies are inherited. Researcher D.C. Rowe posits that some individuals have a genotype that disposes them to antisocial behavior.11 These individuals are characterized by a deficit of social emotions which include love, shame, guilt, empathy and remorse. They are keen predictors of other people’s behavior. Unbridled by emotions, they rely solely on actuarial data to predict outcomes, never resorting to feelings or hunches.12 They focus on short-term outcomes without taking into account the emotional reactions of those with whom they are dealing. Thus they may come across as cold, impersonal and manipulative.
As previously mentioned, the natural killer is most likely not a first-born son. Later sons are generally more aggressive and have less fear or anxiety in dangerous situations. ...Later borns, by virtue of being routinely dominated by their siblings, ultimately feel less fear during stressful situations. They also feel the need to prove their worth over their siblings and more quickly accept dangerous challenges...The military provides ample displacement outlets for this aggression in the form of physical training, field maneuvers and weapons ranges. It is the perfect environment for a sociopath to excel.
...
The natural killer is an aggressive athlete whose physical makeup allows him to excel at contact sports.
...
fighters had a high masculinity factor or outdoors adventurousness about them. Their body types were larger; on average they were an inch taller and eight pounds heavier than the nonfighters. They were rugged individuals who had channeled their aggressions through contact sports.
Another discriminator for identifying natural killers is their socio-economic background. Natural killers usually come from a middle or upper class background. The volunteer military has had the luxury to pick and choose those who will be allowed into the service, and we exclude those with criminal records. Sociopaths follow a "cheater strategy" to obtain what they want.21 The lack of a social conscience allows the sociopath to cheat without remorse. Consequently, those who find themselves in the economically disadvantaged lower class will resort to crime unless placed in a highly controlled environment. In other words, a sociopath from a depressed economic background will most likely have a criminal record, and under today’s standards, he would not be able to enter the military. Thus, natural killers in the US military will most likely come from a middle or upper class background.
Sociopaths are generally extroverts. One reason for this is the inheritance of a nervous system that is relatively insensitive to low levels of stimulation. Individuals with this physiotype tend to be extroverted.22
...
The natural killer has above-average intelligence. Like sociopaths with no economic resources, those without above-average intelligence end up in jail. Therefore, sociopaths in our military are usually intelligent.
...
Additionally, the natural killer has a caustic sense of humor that relies on sharp wit and biting sarcasm.26
...
Personality-type testing may also identify natural killers. One such test already in use by the military is the Myers-Briggs personality-type test. Considering the characteristics discussed above, the natural killer would most likely be an ESTP (extroverted, sensory, thinking, perceiving) personality type on this test.
...
Matching the ESTP personality type to intelligent, caustic, later sons will help identify potential natural killers. ... Personality-type testing at initial entry could identify and help place natural killers where they can best employ their talent—in infantry, armor and special operations units.
...
The individual soldier does make a difference on the killing fields. The natural killer is a vital asset to a unit because he is a killing machine that will turn the tide of battle when the chips are down. During World War II, 40 percent of the US Army Air Forces’ air-to-air killing was done by 1 percent of its pilots. Marshall’s work and the HumRRO study both found that a small percentage of soldiers did most of the fighting. It is not enough to rely on conditioning to produce killers—genetics and childhood environment have already molded them.
...
Atrocities are the result of the release of pent-up hostilities—not a characteristic of sociopaths who live for the moment. Natural killers may participate in atrocities but they will not initiate them.
...
Consequently, many of these individuals seek out fast-paced specialty units such as Airborne, Ranger or Special Forces units.32 The natural killer will become bored in a regular unit and may seek the stimuli of sports, fighting or drugs. Natural killers are motivated by competition and excitement, not a sense of sacrifice—they are not the kind of soldiers who will leap on a grenade to protect others.
...
Another characteristic of the natural killer is to usurp authority in a crisis to turn the tide of battle.
...
If there is a well-defined decisive point of the battle, the commander may choose to place natural killers at that point. They will provide that final measure of resolve in the assault or become the defense linchpin. ... Quick to take charge, they will move to the sound of the guns unless tightly controlled.
There are several leads on the molecular biology of the "violence-genetics" correlation mentioned above. One of themshould be familiar to GNXP readers from last year:
...individuals having the combination of low-activity MAOA genotype and maltreatment were only 12% of the male birth cohort, [yet] they accounted for 44% of the cohort's violent convictions, yielding an attributable risk fraction (11%) comparable to that of the major risk factors associated with cardiovascular disease (37). Moreover, 85% of cohort males having a low-activity MAOA genotype who were severely maltreated developed some form of antisocial behavior. Both attributable risk and predictive sensitivity indicate that these findings could inform the development of future pharmacological treatments. The summary from Science:
The study by Caspi et al. (9) also analyzed a promoter region polymorphism, in this case for the gene encoding monoamine oxidase A (MAOA), an enzyme that breaks down the neurotransmitters serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine. Although the MAOA gene had previously been implicated in aggression and impulse control in both humans and rodents (10), this transcriptional variant had not been associated with personality traits (11). Caspi et al. hypothesized that the effect of the gene would be more readily revealed if the environment were explicitly taken into account.
Their study group was a large birth cohort, representative of the male population of New Zealand, whose development had been carefully followed for 26 years. The environmental variable of interest was childhood maltreatment, and the outcome was a composite measure of antisocial behavior. Although the MAOA genotype by itself failed to predict antisocial behavior, there was a significant interaction with childhood history; individuals with both a low-activity genotype and previous maltreatment were by far the most likely to have committed a violent crime and to be diagnosed with conduct disorder. Over 85% of the males who had both "bad genes" and a "bad environment" developed some form of antisocial behavior by the time they were 26. It will now be crucial to repeat this intriguing finding on other populations with documented developmental histories.
GoldenDelicious
New member
interesting
never know if you are or arent till youre the one in the bubble, really
never know if you are or arent till youre the one in the bubble, really
GoldenDelicious
New member
oh i know. i was thinking about myself, or other people that havnt been tested someplace where your life is on the lineJavaGuru said:I'm a combat veteran of Desert Storm.
i mean, ive gone toe to toe with some horrible people and been very blase about doing my best to bang their head against concrete while singing kumbaya, but war would be different
im curious to know, but...not that curious lol
GoldenDelicious
New member
my normal personality does, but my other one doesnt careJavaGuru said:
thats the rub, you see
GoldenDelicious
New member
lol no its the one that says "okay its fight time its completely normal to kill this person now."JavaGuru said:Is it intoxicated or the one that tells you to hurt things?
its what happens when you grow up someplace rough. you get brutalized, and really dispassionate about it.
still. war is different. that would be fucked
GoldenDelicious
New member
im passionately rational about this, it was their life or mineJavaGuru said:
me before my brother
me and my brother before my cousins
me my brother and my cousins before my friends
me my brother my cousins my friends before my countrymen
me my brother my cousins my friends my countrymen before everyfuckingoneelse
peopel die in this thing called life.
wonder how ill feel if i ever kill someone.
probably use it as an excuse to listen to depressing music have a smoke and get drunk +/- girl
mountain muscle
New member
I have gotten both ESTP and ENTP.
Though the intuitive was only slightly expressed. I think it has more to do with things happening in my life affecting answers at the time.
It was interesting to read some of the other indicators as well, later child, contact sports and the caustic, sarcastic sense of humor.
Though the intuitive was only slightly expressed. I think it has more to do with things happening in my life affecting answers at the time.
It was interesting to read some of the other indicators as well, later child, contact sports and the caustic, sarcastic sense of humor.
mountain muscle
New member
JavaGuru said:
I'll kill you.
Well at least the tests say I will.
mountain muscle
New member
JavaGuru said:I'm combat tested.....
First Gulf War eh?
I work in the oilfield. I win.
mountain muscle
New member
You're mistaken, this round is all about those...
Kill their god and take their country for our oil freedom.
Kill their god and take their country for our oil freedom.
mountain muscle
New member
JavaGuru said:
The problem is, god is even better than Bin Laden at hide and go seek.
GoldenDelicious
New member
worse, im greekJavaGuru said:
javaguru
Banned
Shamelessly stolen link from JH1's thread.mountain muscle said:
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/hprajani/phun/god-v-satan.png
S
Spartacus
Guest
US army studies after WWII found that in a typical 40 man platoon in a firefight
only 2 were effectively firing their weapons
half weren't even firing at all
the other half,except for the two actually aiming,were firing 'wildly' w/o doing much aiming at all
the germans understood this and found that crew served weapons,i.e. the squad MG,were more likely to be employed effectively because the pair would 'coach' each other,so to speak,to keep the weapon in operation
the germans thus made their MG the focus of the squad
half the squad was employed keeping the MG pair protected and supplied with ammo
this half was directed by the squad second in command
the squad leader directed the overall emphasis of the squad,particularily directing the focus of the MG
It wasn't until Vietnam that the US army adopted these small unit tactics
using the M60 as the primary dealer of death
you put the natural born killers with the machine gun
forrest gumps etc. framed the squad umbrella
only 2 were effectively firing their weapons
half weren't even firing at all
the other half,except for the two actually aiming,were firing 'wildly' w/o doing much aiming at all
the germans understood this and found that crew served weapons,i.e. the squad MG,were more likely to be employed effectively because the pair would 'coach' each other,so to speak,to keep the weapon in operation
the germans thus made their MG the focus of the squad
half the squad was employed keeping the MG pair protected and supplied with ammo
this half was directed by the squad second in command
the squad leader directed the overall emphasis of the squad,particularily directing the focus of the MG
It wasn't until Vietnam that the US army adopted these small unit tactics
using the M60 as the primary dealer of death
you put the natural born killers with the machine gun
forrest gumps etc. framed the squad umbrella
stosstruppe
Well-known member
I hurt someone's feeling once, that make me a natural born killer? 
S
Spartacus
Guest
"A temperament for killing exists among some human beings. Marshall, in identifying the battlefield fighters, said, "the same names continued to reappear as having taken the initiative, and relatively few fresh names were added to the list on any day."7 A post-World War II study by R. L. Swank and W. E. Marchand proposed that 2 percent of soldiers were "aggressive psychopaths" who did not suffer from the normal remorse or trauma associated with killing. I use the word suffer because when the job of the soldier is to kill, those fettered by their conscience are suffering while doing their job. We tend to shun the concept of the willing killer because it offends our kinder sensibilities, but a controlled psychopath is an asset on the killing fields. Those who possess such a temperament are natural killers and many have served this country well. The problem lies in identifying these individuals and positioning them where they can be most effective.
...
psychopath...sociopath, antisocial personality type or undercontrolled personality type...someone who lacks social emotions and often resorts to violence, deception or manipulation as a means to get what he wants. These people constitute 3 to 4 percent of the male population and 1 percent of the female. Such people who enter the military are not monsters waiting to be released. They can be level-headed, productive soldiers, and if put into the right situation, they will kill the enemy aggressively and without remorse. If these soldiers are in our units, how can we identify them?
A predisposition to kill is the result of genetics and early childhood experience. There are common traits that are indicative of natural killers. While the collection of these traits is not absolutely deterministic of a killer, it is a good framework for identifying those who may have this propensity. In general, the natural killer found in the US Army lacks social emotions, is a later son (not first-born), got into frequent fights as a child, enjoys contact sports, is from a middle or upper class background, is an extrovert, has above-average intelligence and a caustic sense of humor."
3-4% of the male population
1% female
some of that must be nuture
...
psychopath...sociopath, antisocial personality type or undercontrolled personality type...someone who lacks social emotions and often resorts to violence, deception or manipulation as a means to get what he wants. These people constitute 3 to 4 percent of the male population and 1 percent of the female. Such people who enter the military are not monsters waiting to be released. They can be level-headed, productive soldiers, and if put into the right situation, they will kill the enemy aggressively and without remorse. If these soldiers are in our units, how can we identify them?
A predisposition to kill is the result of genetics and early childhood experience. There are common traits that are indicative of natural killers. While the collection of these traits is not absolutely deterministic of a killer, it is a good framework for identifying those who may have this propensity. In general, the natural killer found in the US Army lacks social emotions, is a later son (not first-born), got into frequent fights as a child, enjoys contact sports, is from a middle or upper class background, is an extrovert, has above-average intelligence and a caustic sense of humor."
3-4% of the male population
1% female
some of that must be nuture
Good read bro.
javaguru
Banned
MightyMouse69 said:
God is the original baby killer....
"And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead." (Exodus 12:29-30)
God hates black people more than George Bush....
"And there came out against them Zerah the Ethiopian with an host of a thousand thousand, and three hundred chariots..." (II Chronicles 14:9)
So the LORD smote the Ethiopians before Asa, and before Judah; and the Ethiopians fled. (II Chronicles 14:12)
"And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter." (I Samuel 6:19)
Yes, sometimes the Christian God uses proxies for killing but "it" doesn't mind bloody hands...
Raptorex
New member
bro, I don't mean to argue with you. You have so much going for you and you seem to spend you time with anger at God/Christians. If it makes you feel better, great - but living with negativity and critique of others will really get you no where.
In the end, no one really cares what you think about their beliefs.
In the end, no one really cares what you think about their beliefs.
javaguru
Banned
You're confusing criticism with negativity. Many people, including yourself do care about what I have to say about religion. Everything deserves to be critically analyzed, including religious beliefs. All I've read from you in regard to religion is complaining about so called "Christian bashing" but I've never read a post by you about "bashing" other religions? I criticize all religions but you're only offended by my criticism of your mythology?MightyMouse69 said:
S
Spartacus
Guest
I'm alive because of god
everytime I think I'm done
there's something for me to do
everytime I think I'm done
there's something for me to do
Raptorex
New member
javaguru said:You're confusing criticism with negativity. Many people, including yourself do care about what I have to say about religion. Everything deserves to be critically analyzed, including religious beliefs. All I've read from you in regard to religion is complaining about so called "Christian bashing" but I've never read a post by you about "bashing" other religions? I criticize all religions but you're only offended by my criticism of your mythology?
feel free to critique, I have studied many religions and find them all to have great value to people. I'd defend anyone being attacked continously for their beliefs (if serious). Good luck in your life bro, I honestly don't care what you have to say about it - since now I know you are not objective. I wouldn't waste time debating if you only see the bad...
S
Spartacus
Guest
I'm listening to Obama spread the word of taking the money of people who educate themselves
you sorry fuck
you were raised by your white grandmother
for the record
on a death certificate when race is in question due to multiple possibles
your race is recorded officially as your mother
Obama is white
you sorry fuck
you were raised by your white grandmother
for the record
on a death certificate when race is in question due to multiple possibles
your race is recorded officially as your mother
Obama is white
S
Spartacus
Guest
he's just playin' a nigger
javaguru
Banned
I understand that some people need a crutch to get through life, that's the point of religion.MightyMouse69 said:
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. "-Carl Sagan
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985]
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. it is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. (So the old bamboozles tend to persist as the new bamboozles rise.) "[Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection]
"I maintain there is much more wonder in science than in pseudoscience. And in addition, to whatever measure this term has any meaning, science has the additional virtue, and it is not an inconsiderable one, of being true." [Carl Sagan, The Burden Of Skepticism]
"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." [Carl Sagan, 1987 CSICOP keynote address]
S
Spartacus
Guest
genetics
our code was crafted over hundreds of thousands of years
and now we craft laws to protect what before got dead
dumb shits and lazy
"oh but they're human beings"
our code was crafted over hundreds of thousands of years
and now we craft laws to protect what before got dead
dumb shits and lazy
"oh but they're human beings"
S
Spartacus
Guest
I'm here to tell you
If Obama died today his race would officially be recorded as white
If Obama died today his race would officially be recorded as white
^^Good bro material
How you were raised has a lot to do with it. Environment. Friends.
S
Spartacus
Guest
same herejavaguru said:
If a meteor destoryed humanity
would all that happened before count for shit?
if no one is alive to record
but the plants?
what would it matter?
S
Spartacus
Guest
this is your reality
"If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain "
- The Matrix
- The Matrix
layinback
New member
morality and belief in god are mutually exclusive.
if you know anything about philosophy, you'll be
familiar with the formal arguments. i will post one
if necessary
psychopathy is genetic. 100% organic.
however, proper nurturing can "turn" the gene off.
this seems to be the case with all personality disorders.
if you know anything about philosophy, you'll be
familiar with the formal arguments. i will post one
if necessary
psychopathy is genetic. 100% organic.
however, proper nurturing can "turn" the gene off.
this seems to be the case with all personality disorders.
javaguru
Banned
What we "know" is that you believe in a supernatural sugar daddy and it seems to be prolific in society regardless of reason. The belief in supernatural sugar daddies' also seems to be one of the biggest challenges we need to overcome before we act humanely to other humans.You can't criticize the fundamentalist Muslims without accepting the fact both of your belief systems are based on 2k year old prejudice.MightyMouse69 said:
layinback said:
"Psychopathy is a psychological construct that describes chronic immoral and antisocial behavior."
I don't believe that it is inherent.
javaguru said:
Seriously, don't even compare the decent muslims that worship God like myself to crazed fanatics. That's oranges and apples.
layinback
New member
the_alcatraz said:
it's characterized by impulsively and low frustration tolerance.
MRI's and other scientific evidence points to organic.
pain thresh hold in these individuals is "different"
reaction to graphic violent imagery elicits a neutral response.
overwhelming scientific evidence................
layinback said:
All that can easily happen through experiences.
Take any human being, throw him underground where there is no light, feed him blood and human intestines as his only source for food, beat him up every day till he spits blood, abuse the fuck out of him, then teach him to fight. He will become a psycho killer.
Raptorex
New member
javaguru said:It's a nice belief but I require evidence, I've committed the worst of the worst against my fellow man in the name of God and country.......I was not convinced. ::
unfortunately, there is no evidence bro - somethings work that way.
If there was no God, could there still be Atheists? If not, what would you believe in?
layinback said:
I loved philosophy in college! That was good shit!
javaguru said:It's a nice belief but I require evidence, I've committed the worst of the worst against my fellow man in the name of God and country.......I was not convinced. :
It's all about faith bro.
javaguru
Banned
Atheism is non-belief/skepticism. It's a great promise that simply saying a few words and believing in a theology will give you eternal life in paradise.However, critical evaluation should be used in every aspect of life, not only does religion not deserve a pass but it should deserve special scrutiny because it's based on irrational belief.MightyMouse69 said:
javaguru said:
That's not true. How do you explain the world? How was everything created? Big-bang theory?
javaguru said:Yes.... Science> stuff made up by bronze age primitives.
I can cite references all day..you have a book written by Bronzed age primitives...I win...
Science itself refutes the big-bang theory and suggests something magnificent as to say it was created by a "higher power," i.e. God.
If you look at one of Newton's laws, "matter is neither created nor destroyed," that in itself discredits the big bang theory, which suggest that matter expanded causing an explosion and the universe was created. Where did that matter come from? It couldn't have come from nothing, since matter is neither created nor destroyed according to science. Therefore, there must have been a higher power at work that has created the world.
layinback
New member
the_alcatraz said:
of course, you can brutalize otherwise good natured peeps into monsters but this is exceptional and doesn't apply to the nature \ nurture argument.
lots of psychopaths from "normal" households.
lots of good natured folks from chaotic and abusive households.
the lack of empathy that exemplifies psychopathy is organic.
the gene is not indelible. it can be turned around in the object constancy phase of emotional development.
psychopaths aren't "being bad"
no more than a lion is being bad when it eats you lol .
the majority of day traders on wall street are sociopathic
as are many CEO of fortune 500 co.
layinback said:
sociopath does not equal psychopath lol
layinback
New member
the_alcatraz said:
same thing. please reference the diagnostic and statistical manual
for mental disorders. psychopath, antisocial personality, sociopath
are all the same thing. psychopath is archaic terminology.
i have studied this subject extensively
my analyst readily admits, that i know more about personality
disorders than he does lol
layinback said:
I believe you bro
Was just sharing my opinion.
javaguru said:so·ci·o·path
–noun
Psychiatry. a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.
Just sayin'...
Thank you for the input. I was wrong. It is the same thing
lol
javaguru said:The problem is that opinion != fact, which is why America is in Iraq.
wtf does it have to do with why America is in Iraq?
USA is in Iraq bc Bush wanted to dip his dick in oil.
javaguru said:The women's underwear is purely a comfort issue...
wtf?
layinback said:lolololololol
that's what i told the detective in the park last week
wtf were you doin with women underwear in the park?
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