My shoulder routine... need opinions

[milo hobgoblin]

Some times Im wondering if Im hitting them too hard.. Im really trying to fill out my medial delts to get a fuller look to my shoulders..

seems like shoulder development eludes me.

here is my latest shoulder routine... usually followed by back


warm up... doing a light upper body circuit then hit it


lateral raises
20x12 30x12 40x8-10 then 1 arm lateral raises with the 50's for 6-8
drop set 1arm 50x6-8, 40x6, 30x4-6, 20x8-10, 15's to failure (no rest between those)

if Im feeling crazy Ill do two supersets... but its pretty brutal so it doesnt happen often

rear delts machine supersetted with upright rows.
(every machine is a little different so these are arbitrary numbers and I use a standard curl bar for upright rows to ease wrist tension)

reverse flies on machine
stack (220) x12 superset with upright rows 100x8-10
stack (220) x10-12 up rows 110x8-10

front raises with dumbells
35x8-10
40x6-8
40x6-8

I cant do any overhead pressing right now thanks to over doing it with Arnold presses...

so what do you all think? I usually pound my back afterwards so my rear delts get a real good beating due to pre exauhstion.

 

[supreme]

Well overhead pressing is the best mass builder for all 3 deltoid heads.

I am assuming you have sustained some sort of injury from the Arnold press??

Don't forget to train the rotator cuff & scapular stabilizers for the more stable your shoulder joint, the heavier loads you can safely lift

You should do the majority of your shoulder work standing up, especially pressing movements for you will be able to engage the legs & core allowing you to lift more weight.

Make sure you have normal ROM in the shoulder & develop all heads of the muscle equally for if there are imbalances or misalignment of the joint you can have reciprocal inhibition of the muscles and most of the work will be done by antagonistic & synergystic muscles.

S

 

[Dave949]

First off I am a (somewhat) lower volume trainer due to my belief in muscle recruitment overlap. (IMHO total isolation is unachievable) and my opinion will reflect this. I also feel that the delt is a relatively small muscle and the lateral head is an even smaller section of this relatively small muscle. In my thinking one should have no problem stimulating growth in a small section of a small muscle with three hard, going for broke sets.

In my ever so humble opinion the three sets of two arm lateral raises you are doing would be sufficient and any more would be overkill. My 2 cents would be to lose the one arm lateral drop sets (BUT) utilize the drop set on the third and final set of the two arm lateral raises for a good torching then move on to your other delt movements.

Hopefully you will be able to do overhead pressing once again because I agree with what Supreme said concerning overhead pressing. They are the best.

Pump on.....

 

[lavi]

Haha Dave your opinion is always "ever so humble"

 

[Dave949]

Haha Dave your opinion is always "ever so humble"

Thats cuz I`m an ever so humble mofo !!!

I usually say that Lavi because I don`t like to push my own training beliefs on someone but rather share my training logic in an ever so humble and respectful way.
(there is more than one way to catch a fish and each has its own merits).

Hows the new routine going for you ? Last I read you were going to try the 5x5 gig. Its good to hear you are exploring different avenues of training. It is the only way to find what works best for you.

Pump on .....

 

[lavi]

Starts tomorrow, and no more "exploring" 'till August, so hopefully it'll go well.


Don't wanna thread hijack...

Milo - In my ever so humble opinion, I agree with Dave. Once you can go back to overhead pressing I would ditch a lot more of the stuff you're doing too (ie front raises).

 

[Synpax]

rediculous amount of volume.

Also, the best delt exercise is dumbell presses, demonstrated in the earlier MRI post.

I use this as the basis of my 5x5.

I follow up with 3x10 for lateral raises. There are three variations that have different impacts. They are 1) Starting together in front, 2) Starting on the sides, 3) Starting together behind.

Then I do 2x10 fronts.

This, combined with incline work on chest days, works well _for me_. YMMV.

 

[ColdCut]

Well overhead pressing is the best mass builder for all 3 deltoid heads.

I am assuming you have sustained some sort of injury from the Arnold press??

Don't forget to train the rotator cuff & scapular stabilizers for the more stable your shoulder joint, the heavier loads you can safely lift

Which excersises train the rotator cuff and scapular stabilizers. My shoulders are growin at a decent rate, but the upper part (rotator cuff) is just as small as before i hit the gym

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

ColdCut- check this link-

http://www.dolfzine.com/page391.htm

 

[Cuthbert]

What are your stats and lifts?

 

[supreme]

Coldcut:

The link for that article is excellent. the only movement I would add would be the low cable shrug for scapula retraction & stretching of the other internal rotators

S

 

[milo hobgoblin]

Thanks guys!!

I was starting to wonder if I was doing to much... and yes I think I hurt it doing arnold presses with the 70's AFTER I did my lateral raise routine...

It seems like any time I go even moderately heavy with arnold presses it fucks with my shoulders.


Ill try cutting back on the lateral raises and slowly move back toward prsses to see how my shoulder reacts...

BTW the lateral raises cause me know pain at all as welll as the upright rows... it just seems to be presses.

my stats are ~200lbs 12% 17" arms (cold flexed) and a 32" waist
bench ~350 deadlift ~450

If my shoulders werent fucked up I would be presseg the 85-90lbs dumbells for sets of 6 reps (that would be my heaviest set with strict form)


anyways hope that all means something.

 

[Omegasox]

Is it overkill to do DB Presses and Arnold presses? Right now I'm doing Arnolds but have been thinking about throwing in some DB Presses. Or maybe do one, one week, then the other the next.

 

[BigBadBootyDaddy29]

First off, get your shoulder issues addressed so you can overhead press.

I hope I make my next points without coming off like an asshole, but if I do, I apologize, I am trying to help. Your routine seems to focus more on totally blasting the muscle with all sorts of drop sets, supersets, and the like to feel "demolished". This does nothing but provide a temporary muscle pump. Also, Unless it is a warm-up, I would never start a routine with an isolation movement, fuck pre-exhaustion and the rest of that Weider crap, progressively increasing the amount of weight you lift for a set number of reps OR progressively increasing the reps you lift a weight for are what cause growth, not blasting a muscle with no plan of attack and no rhyme or reason.

Next, I know there are exceptions, but the MAJORITY of trainees have no business touching 50lb dumbells to do 1-Arm laterals. This leads me to believe your form may be sloppy, and this could explain a lot about why you're not pleased with your progress and also why you're injured, so first and foremost you need to get your shoulder fixed up and re-evaluate your form.

After you do that, you need goals and organization. You need a set routine. I am assuming you train your shoulders once a week by your post, so say that is roughly 42-52 shoulder workouts a year. I think it would be better if you use the 5x5 on overhed or military presses and try to bump up 5lbs a week. After a year your numbers will gradually add up to a number you never thought you'd be doing so soon and you will have the physical results to show for it. On your assistance worry about consistency and progress, keep a training log, progress is so much more important than blindly trying to trash a muscle.

 

[Debaser]

Beat me to it. A big overhead press (and hell, even a big bench) translates to big delts. When you start pressing your bodyweight or more overhead, I think you'll start being happy with your delts.

 

[JOKER47]

When you start pressing your bodyweight or more overhead, I think you'll start being happy with your delts.

I disagree.........

I would never be happy enough with my delts no matter HOW much I press overhead.......

 

[Debaser]

I meant "much happier." 100% satisfied is a different matter

 

[d3track]

i'm with the presses
i didn't agree with it until i hurt my shoulder and was unable to do them
now i am a full believer that the best way to make gains in the delts is with presses

 

[Dorian'sDisciple]

First off, get your shoulder issues addressed so you can overhead press.

I hope I make my next points without coming off like an asshole, but if I do, I apologize, I am trying to help. Your routine seems to focus more on totally blasting the muscle with all sorts of drop sets, supersets, and the like to feel "demolished". This does nothing but provide a temporary muscle pump. Also, Unless it is a warm-up, I would never start a routine with an isolation movement, fuck pre-exhaustion and the rest of that Weider crap, progressively increasing the amount of weight you lift for a set number of reps OR progressively increasing the reps you lift a weight for are what cause growth, not blasting a muscle with no plan of attack and no rhyme or reason.

Next, I know there are exceptions, but the MAJORITY of trainees have no business touching 50lb dumbells to do 1-Arm laterals. This leads me to believe your form may be sloppy, and this could explain a lot about why you're not pleased with your progress and also why you're injured, so first and foremost you need to get your shoulder fixed up and re-evaluate your form.

After you do that, you need goals and organization. You need a set routine. I am assuming you train your shoulders once a week by your post, so say that is roughly 42-52 shoulder workouts a year. I think it would be better if you use the 5x5 on overhed or military presses and try to bump up 5lbs a week. After a year your numbers will gradually add up to a number you never thought you'd be doing so soon and you will have the physical results to show for it. On your assistance worry about consistency and progress, keep a training log, progress is so much more important than blindly trying to trash a muscle.

beautiful post

 

[Dorian'sDisciple]

Some times Im wondering if Im hitting them too hard.. ...............................................................seems like shoulder development eludes me.

Aah,elementary my dear Watson,the answer is in the question.

LISTEN TO YOUR BODY . It can tell you more than anyone or thing.