My shoulder Prolotherapy experience....

[nsashbl01]

Been thinking of trying prolo on my shoulder for a while. Took the plunge today. Was quicker than I thought. Nurse / assistant goes over your info. Doc came in and went over my shoulder issues. I layed on a table and he began injecting. I was nervous about getting shots in my ligaments and tendons. I figured it was going to be a slow painfull process. I was wrong. It went really quick. maybe a few minutes and he was done. I felt like a pincushion though. He was jabbing me faster than I ever imagined. Maybe 30 - 40 shots within a minute or two! They then put a hot compress on the area for like 10 - 15 minutes to help the pain and increase circulation. Doc said I can start range of motion exercises in a few days, and can start to lift lightly in 5 - 7 days. I can heve this treatment done every 3-4 weeks depending on my pain and recovery. It may take several treatments to work.

When I left the office my shoulder felt pretty damn good. But as I drove to work, the inflamation started. Then it began to get sore. It's now been about two hours and I'm starting to have to limit the use of the effected arm. I'll post as things progress. I really hope this works.....

 

[van_wilder]

Been thinking of trying prolo on my shoulder for a while. Took the plunge today. Was quicker than I thought. Nurse / assistant goes over your info. Doc came in and went over my shoulder issues. I layed on a table and he began injecting. I was nervous about getting shots in my ligaments and tendons. I figured it was going to be a slow painfull process. I was wrong. It went really quick. maybe a few minutes and he was done. I felt like a pincushion though. He was jabbing me faster than I ever imagined. Maybe 30 - 40 shots within a minute or two! They then put a hot compress on the area for like 10 - 15 minutes to help the pain and increase circulation. Doc said I can start range of motion exercises in a few days, and can start to lift lightly in 5 - 7 days. I can heve this treatment done every 3-4 weeks depending on my pain and recovery. It may take several treatments to work.

When I left the office my shoulder felt pretty damn good. But as I drove to work, the inflamation started. Then it began to get sore. It's now been about two hours and I'm starting to have to limit the use of the effected arm. I'll post as things progress. I really hope this works.....

Yes...please do post up.. also can you give a little detail about the type of pains that lead you to decide to try it?
VW

 

[split endz]

I'm interested too. I feel your pain concerning shoulder... injuries suck.

 

[Smokescreen]

ARRRRGGHHH!! I hate shoulder injuries! Fuck!!!

 

[thelion2005]

I am undergoing prolo for my feet. I damaged them from overuse. Until I discovered prolo, the Surgeons wanted to fuse the bones together... a complete mis-diagnosis.

Prolo is meant to bring the body's healing process to the tears in the tendons and ligaments. It literally irritates the area by injections. It is an old science that works. It is not for the faint-hearted.

Here is some encouraging info on what you'll go through.
- The pain will be worse the first few days because the area has been 'injuried". The body is reacting.
- Slowly, this new pain will go away ... 7-10 days.
- Then you get the new healing.
- From 14 days on ... you will be making progress.
- Then you'll get hungry for more because you are making progress with surgery.

It is going to take 3-6 treatments, but you'll get used to it.

Tell yourself that all that burning is "healing". You'll actually condition yourself to want this new pain.

They are using heat to draw more blood and healing reactions into the area. Logical isn't it? Try wet heat on your shoulder.

I had my session Friday. My feet have about 12 marks in each from the needles. I soak them in warm water 3 times a day to keep the healing intense.

Good luck.

 

[nsashbl01]

Yes...please do post up.. also can you give a little detail about the type of pains that lead you to decide to try it?
VW

This shoulder started over ten years ago with a torn Labrum. I had it fixed, then tweaked it a few times over the years. About a year ago I was barefoot waterskiing and did something stupid. Then it became really painfull. So I milked it for a year and last week I was backwards barefooting and I pulled py shoulder from a bad angle. It hurt then, and got bad that night as swelling set in. It's basically just severe tendonitis. My weakness is with any internal rotation, and slightly with front raises. I also can't flat bench for shit. Incline is not too bad. After last week, I couldn't wipe my ass, much less lift! So I figured wtf!

My pain is avoidable if I'm carefull how I move. If I make a quick move though, I see stars it hurts so bad.

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

Despite the swelling and discomfort from the therapy, can you remain active with the affected joint or is immobility recommended?

 

[Zyglamail]

nsashbl01, glad to hear your giving it a try. I have promoted prolo here for many years and most dismiss it and think me a nut case, but if I can help one person overcome injuries and get back to the active lifestyle they are used to it will be worth it. Ive had my shoulders done, elbows, foot and back. Often times many areas treated as once. The tendon/ligament swelling slows ya donw a bit and it can get a bit tender but overall its really not that bad, especially when you look at the recovery time of surgery etc. Keep us posted on your progress.

Despite the swelling and discomfort from the therapy, can you remain active with the affected joint or is immobility recommended?

Depends on your definition of active. Prolo simply jump starts your bodies own healing. With that in mind if you have a fairly serious injury and have been lifting hard and heavy you are likely causing micro damage day in and day out. I wouldnt recommend jumping into a 5rep heavy weight workout right after treatment but exercise in general, if not so heavy your causing further damage, is beneficial since it increases blood flow. I arranged most of my treatments on a thurs/friday and would be back in the gym the following monday.

 

[nsashbl01]

nsashbl01, glad to hear your giving it a try. I have promoted prolo here for many years and most dismiss it and think me a nut case, but if I can help one person overcome injuries and get back to the active lifestyle they are used to it will be worth it. Ive had my shoulders done, elbows, foot and back. Often times many areas treated as once. The tendon/ligament swelling slows ya donw a bit and it can get a bit tender but overall its really not that bad, especially when you look at the recovery time of surgery etc. Keep us posted on your progress.

Depends on your definition of active. Prolo simply jump starts your bodies own healing. With that in mind if you have a fairly serious injury and have been lifting hard and heavy you are likely causing micro damage day in and day out. I wouldnt recommend jumping into a 5rep heavy weight workout right after treatment but exercise in general, if not so heavy your causing further damage, is beneficial since it increases blood flow. I arranged most of my treatments on a thurs/friday and would be back in the gym the following monday.

Thanks for the good words Zig. As far as being active. Doc made a comment about getting me back in the gym quickly. He said I can do very light work on Wednesday. Like several second reps. Then around a week go with normal weights, but not to heavy. As usual, pain will be my guide.

So was it just my doc, or do they all shoot very fast. Like jabbing the needle in and out as fast as he could. Pretty cool.....

 

[Zyglamail]

So was it just my doc, or do they all shoot very fast. Like jabbing the needle in and out as fast as he could. Pretty cool.....

It seems to be the standard. They know right where each tendon and ligament is and go to town like a sewing machine.

What I thought was cool about the procedure is that when a healthy tendon/ligament is hit you dont really feel anything after the needle breaks the skin, just some pressure and "squishing"...for lack of a better word. But man when they hit an injured tendon/ligament you know it an invariably react with an involuntary twitch.

 

[dosandojo]

IMHO, reconstructive surgery is the ONLY way to go...the BEST way to fix Ligaments and Tendons...

 

[slat1]

I have been researching this for my degenerative disks and my bicep tendon. My insurance will not cover it and I don't have the cash right now. It is something I am looking forward to in the future!

 

[Christianlifter]

IMHO, reconstructive surgery is the ONLY way to go...the BEST way to fix Ligaments and Tendons...

I politely beg to differ. I did prolo therapy for my elbow about 2 years ago, courtesy of Zyg's advice. I had already been unable to lift for 3 months. Did WONDERS for me!!! Elbow is strong! Worked excellent! I was lifting in 3 weeks...BTW Its not THAT painful..I highly recommend trying it...especially if your thinking re-constructive surgery.

Props to Zyg on the recommendation!

God Bless bros

 

[nsashbl01]

I politely beg to differ. I did prolo therapy for my elbow about 2 years ago, courtesy of Zyg's advice. I had already been unable to lift for 3 months. Did WONDERS for me!!! Elbow is strong! Worked excellent! I was lifting in 3 weeks...BTW Its not THAT painful..I highly recommend trying it...especially if your thinking re-constructive surgery.

Props to Zyg on the recommendation!

God Bless bros

I like hearing stories like this. Today my shoulder is a bit sore. Feels like I had a bad injection. Stuff that hurt it from the injury feels the same. Going to try some easy, light weights tomorrow.

 

[Zyglamail]

IMHO, reconstructive surgery is the ONLY way to go...the BEST way to fix Ligaments and Tendons...

Unless there is a total seperation of a tendon/ligament please explaine to me how you think "reconstructive surgery" is going to help.

 

[Zyglamail]

Thanks for the good words Zig. As far as being active. Doc made a comment about getting me back in the gym quickly. He said I can do very light work on Wednesday. Like several second reps. Then around a week go with normal weights, but not to heavy. As usual, pain will be my guide.

So was it just my doc, or do they all shoot very fast. Like jabbing the needle in and out as fast as he could. Pretty cool.....

Its great to hear it worked for you. Many blow off my ravings like those of a mad man and its good to see someone take a chance and be rewarded.

 

[thelion2005]

Its great to hear it worked for you. Many blow off my ravings like those of a mad man and its good to see someone take a chance and be rewarded.

I am very glad to see the great feedback on prolo. I've sent 6 people to my Doc with various injuries. He probes around the site with his thumbs and fingers looking for "hot spots" ... injury sites. Then ... just like described ... quick injections.

 

[Zyglamail]

I like hearing stories like this. Today my shoulder is a bit sore. Feels like I had a bad injection. Stuff that hurt it from the injury feels the same. Going to try some easy, light weights tomorrow.

Keep in mind this is not a quick fix, but then again nothing is. All Prolotherapy really does is trigger very centralized and often severe swelling which triggers the bodys own healing repsonse. The very design of tendons/ligaments makes them very slow to heal. It will be a gradual healing that you probably wont even notice day to day but as the pain and stiffness from the treatment subside you will find yourself saying "wow, my shoulder really is starting to feel better". The progression will continue with additional treatments and even for months after providing you avoid taking anti-inflamatories which will counteract the treatments all together.


On a side note, do you know which irritant your doc used? For most of my treatment the doc used the typical glucose solution but when I repoted slower progress than I was hoping for I got my elbows injected with sodium morrhuate which is technically a chemotactic. In other words the solution itself not only triggers localized inflamation but also attracts immune cells. Talk about swelling, my elbows were black and blue and all puffed up. But it really did the trick.

 

[nsashbl01]

Keep in mind this is not a quick fix, but then again nothing is. All Prolotherapy really does is trigger very centralized and often severe swelling which triggers the bodys own healing repsonse. The very design of tendons/ligaments makes them very slow to heal. It will be a gradual healing that you probably wont even notice day to day but as the pain and stiffness from the treatment subside you will find yourself saying "wow, my shoulder really is starting to feel better". The progression will continue with additional treatments and even for months after providing you avoid taking anti-inflamatories which will counteract the treatments all together.


On a side note, do you know which irritant your doc used? For most of my treatment the doc used the typical glucose solution but when I repoted slower progress than I was hoping for I got my elbows injected with sodium morrhuate which is technically a chemotactic. In other words the solution itself not only triggers localized inflamation but also attracts immune cells. Talk about swelling, my elbows were black and blue and all puffed up. But it really did the trick.

I believe the dextrose solution. I'll ask him about the Sodium Morrhuate next treatment.

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

Given the glowing testaments to prolotherapy's effects, I decided to schedule a consultation with an orthopaedist specializing in it. After treatment if I am a candidate, I'll give feedback.

 

[nsashbl01]

Hit the gym today, first time in a week. Sucks, I have not taken 7 days off since I had my shoulder surgery 2.5 years ago. Anyway. Shoulder is sore, so I did legs. Squats hurt too much to keep form, but I did the rest ok. Then I took some really light dumbells and did some shoulder, arm, back, and chest work. Just going through the motions. I'll try to start with some normal weights, and proceed cautiously this weekend.

 

[van_wilder]

Hit the gym today, first time in a week. Sucks, I have not taken 7 days off since I had my shoulder surgery 2.5 years ago. Anyway. Shoulder is sore, so I did legs. Squats hurt too much to keep form, but I did the rest ok. Then I took some really light dumbells and did some shoulder, arm, back, and chest work. Just going through the motions. I'll try to start with some normal weights, and proceed cautiously this weekend.

Am i allowed to ask what type of costs i can expect if i try this???

 

[Zyglamail]

Am i allowed to ask what type of costs i can expect if i try this???

It will likely vary from doc to doc and what you have treated also effects the cost. Smaller areas are generally cheaper than large areas but your probably looking at $150 to $350 depending on what area you have done.

I was was suffering from sticker shock myself but after seeing a couple "regular" docs and getting no where I simply didnt beleive nothing could be done and took a chance and it paid off in spades.

The truth of the matter is if you have chronic pain you are injured and if you do not totally cut back on lifting and let it heal, which could take a year or more, then you are simply going to continue to cause damage and down the road you will be suffering from a much greater injury.

 

[thelion2005]

I believe the dextrose solution. I'll ask him about the Sodium Morrhuate next treatment.

Practioners are debating "solutions".
One camp says the solution matters.
The other camp says it doesn't - It is the reaction that counts and anything triggers it.

My Doc uses saline. All he wants is the reaction ... then let the body do the rest.

 

[Christianlifter]

Am i allowed to ask what type of costs i can expect if i try this???

I paid $100 a session for 8 weeks.
I would have gladly paid more if I knew the results beforehand.

CL

 

[nsashbl01]

Am i allowed to ask what type of costs i can expect if i try this???

I forgot what my initial consult was, it was a while ago. But the shoulder is one of, if not the nmost expensive joint. It was $225 per treatment. If it helps, it's worth it to me. I spend enough on other "supps" so what the hell!

 

[nsashbl01]

Had a league Volleyball game last night. I decided to try playing and see how it felt. I couldn't really hit, but was able to play carefully. I will start back with my normal split tomorrow and see how it goes. Anything with internal rotation on my arm/shoulder kills still. So I'm gonna stay really light.

 

[van_wilder]

I forgot what my initial consult was, it was a while ago. But the shoulder is one of, if not the nmost expensive joint. It was $225 per treatment. If it helps, it's worth it to me. I spend enough on other "supps" so what the hell!

For sure.... hell, i'd pay a lot more than that if it was guaranteed to work... i would just hate to find myself a couple months down the road with a bum shoulder AND an empty wallet...

 

[split endz]

Anyone here tried Sissux Rx from Synergy ? I have some on order after a strong recommendation from someone else on the board. Says it did wonders for his tendonitis. Had on order for over a month, but not yet received

 

[nsashbl01]

Just an update on how the shoulder is doing. Didn't barefoot or waterski all weekend, but played Vball Sunday night and was pretty happy. Hurt a tad, but I could hit and serve pretty hard. Monday I was back at the gym attempting a little back/bi's. Deads started to hurt at 225, so I just did a shitload of slow reps. Stayed light on rows and pulldowns, but felt ok. Bi's were hard to train, seems that my bicep tendon is pretty sore. If I flex with my hand near my chest, the pain is pretty bad. So I just stayed with light weights and slow reps. Today I planned on going barefooting, but some A-hole was out trashing the water, so I just messed around on a ski. Couldn't pull to hard without pain. So I was just there for the ride. Did a little chest/ shoulders/tri's. Again, was carefull and stayed very light. Just went through the motions. Hopefully I can start lifting normally soon, but till then, I'm gonna just do 3 day splits.

 

[thelion2005]

It will likely vary from doc to doc and what you have treated also effects the cost. Smaller areas are generally cheaper than large areas but your probably looking at $150 to $350 depending on what area you have done.

I was was suffering from sticker shock myself but after seeing a couple "regular" docs and getting no where I simply didnt beleive nothing could be done and took a chance and it paid off in spades.

The truth of the matter is if you have chronic pain you are injured and if you do not totally cut back on lifting and let it heal, which could take a year or more, then you are simply going to continue to cause damage and down the road you will be suffering from a much greater injury.

My costs are $250-300. The insurance forms are coded for arthritis therapy and insurance pays it all minus a $10 co-pay.

 

[nsashbl01]

Here's a one month update on my shoulder prolo progress. I was doing pretty good in the gym up to about a week ago. Maybe 60-70% on shoulder and chest work. Had to be carefull to stay out of the pain zone, but I was feeling good. Was planning on blowing off any more prolo till after I go on vaca in Oct, (Olympia). Wanted to try to get some size back and the prolo slows me down each time. Well, this week my shoulder was getting really sore. Could hardly use it for the first three hours of the day. Was suffering in the gym, so I said screw it and went in again yesterday to get prolo. Had my shoulder and my knee done this time, (Patellar tendon was sore lately). This time the doc changed the mixture a bit, made it stronger with Magnesium I think? Got back to work with a slight limp, and a sore shoulder. Both knee and shoulder were pretty swolen. Woke up, shoulder almost feels better than the past few mornings, I'm still severly restricted, but a tad more comfortable. Knee feels almost normal, no real soreness. We'll see how it feels in a few days.

I'm gonna give this therapy a fighting chance, and keep throwing money at the hopes of staying away from the Ortho! I'll keep my progress posted....

 

[nsashbl01]

Ok, two days after my second injections. I woke up yesterday in less pain than before the shots! Went to the gym, (waited 5 days last time). Was real carefull and just went through the motions. Lifted like 1/2 warm up weight just to get blood flowing. Felt really good because of it. Hope this gets me back with normal weights quicker. This AM I woke up and shoulder was actually movable, I bet 50% less pain than normal. This time I think the prolo did something. Gonna start easy lifting again this weekend and see how it goes.....

 

[nsashbl01]

Two weeks after my second round. I don't know whats up right now. I started at the gym within a day, felt great. Three days after I did another full body, easy workout and felt good. Then things seemed to go down hill with my shoulder. I now get a distinct crack when I lower my arm from above my head. I can raise my arm when it is internally rotated, but not when it's externally rotated, (hurts but I can force it). I worked chest this week but used hardly any weights. Back was not too bad, still stayed light. Bi's are tough because I get pain if my hand is not flared way out from my body. Today is shoulders and tri's. I'll go light and just work through it. I'm frustrated with the amout of pain I'm in, but I know this process can take time so I'm giving it a fighting chance. Also looks like my ins is covering part of it!

 

[Zyglamail]

At the time of injections you get a very rapid and severe inflamatory response. This causes stiffness and pain. Over the next couple days its common to actually feel good as some of the pain subsides yet the localized tendon/ligament inflamation is still severe and that inflamation actually helps to hold the joint tight. However after the 1st week or so as the joint losens back up after the initial drastic inflamation in can once again feel like nothing is happening but please dont let that detere you.

Under normal conditions it takes a year to a year and a half for the cells in the tendons/ligaments to replace themselves. Even if that is speed up and doubled by prolo treatments you are still looking at many months for a full recovery. A single prolo treatment (assuming you avoid icing the injury, anti-inflamatories etc) can spur on healing for months afterwords. Keep in mind that the longer you lived with the injury to begin with the more damage there is that needs to be repaired. It sounds like your injury was rather substantial. Give it a few more weeks and I think it will start to come around but what you are experiencing right now about initially feeling good and then having what seems like a lapse is the same thing I went through. You may find that you will need 4, 6 or perhaps even 8 treatments to get 100% and its not gonna happen overnight. Just like you dont pack on muscle overnight the healing healing will take time as well but in the end Im sure you will be glad you stuck with it.

 

[nsashbl01]

At the time of injections you get a very rapid and severe inflamatory response. This causes stiffness and pain. Over the next couple days its common to actually feel good as some of the pain subsides yet the localized tendon/ligament inflamation is still severe and that inflamation actually helps to hold the joint tight. However after the 1st week or so as the joint losens back up after the initial drastic inflamation in can once again feel like nothing is happening but please dont let that detere you.

Under normal conditions it takes a year to a year and a half for the cells in the tendons/ligaments to replace themselves. Even if that is speed up and doubled by prolo treatments you are still looking at many months for a full recovery. A single prolo treatment (assuming you avoid icing the injury, anti-inflamatories etc) can spur on healing for months afterwords. Keep in mind that the longer you lived with the injury to begin with the more damage there is that needs to be repaired. It sounds like your injury was rather substantial. Give it a few more weeks and I think it will start to come around but what you are experiencing right now about initially feeling good and then having what seems like a lapse is the same thing I went through. You may find that you will need 4, 6 or perhaps even 8 treatments to get 100% and its not gonna happen overnight. Just like you dont pack on muscle overnight the healing healing will take time as well but in the end Im sure you will be glad you stuck with it.

Thanks Zyg. I am going to be patient and give it a fair chance. I'm a bit weirded out because the painfull motions seem to change as I do this. The pain was alwas that of a subscapularies injury, with a little pain my my bicep tendon. Now it seems to be bicep tendon and around my anterior delt? Thanks for your input bro. I'll keep you updated....

 

[split endz]

I'm following your progress, and wish you luck. Your last posts make me wonder if your injury is too substantial for prolo to help... hope not. Good luck.

 

[nsashbl01]

I'm following your progress, and wish you luck. Your last posts make me wonder if your injury is too substantial for prolo to help... hope not. Good luck.

My right shoulder had a badly torn Labrum many years ago. It was not too bad since, with an occasional glitch. I was doing well till I started backwards barefooting alot. The pull from that angle just did me in. It's definatly a badly damaged joint, but there's no tears, (almost certain)! I'm had really good pt's examin me and tell me that!

 

[Zyglamail]

The location of pain can often times be very deceiving and where you actually "feel" pain may not even be close to the cause. This is known as referral pain.

Also is cases of bad injuries that are endured for long periods of time, the slop in the joint can actually cause wear and tear on other ligiments/tendons and the cartiledge in the joint. If the cartiledge suffered major damage then arthritis can result but even if it didnt the cartiledge cant really start to be repaired until the slop in the joint is resolved.

In cases where surgery was performed things can even get more complicated. Often times docs will want to go in and "clean things up" by removing debris and rounding off bone and such they deem an irritant. The truth is that if the tendons/ligiments werent lax and didnt allow the joint to to stay in proper range then the "irritants" wouldnt be an issue. Most of the surgery )with the exception of reattaching a fully seperated tendon/ligiment) does more damage than good and does NOT address the actuall problem but a symptom of the problem.

 

[nsashbl01]

Got prolo again today. I slacked off for a while and my shoulder got pretty bad. So I did prolo before Thanksgiving. Then just went in for another treatment. this time I asked him to go a radical as he can because I'm impatient! He used Sodium morrhuate and said I may be a cripple for a while. Oh well. I can handle being one armed for the holidays. I'll post up if I feel any better from this..

 

[pjk6790]

Hey is see you haven't posted in a while. I have a torn labrum and have started doing prolo and have seen some improvements. How did your prolo end up is your shoulder better is prolo worth seeing through?