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My quick update - PCT SUX!

JKurz1

JKurz1

Banned
Well, I know I'll get slammed for this, but for my bros who are intestered please read and respond....the rest of ya, sorry for wasting your time.

Started PCT Friday (making today day 5)
1,000hcg on day 1
500 hcg everyday since and will go for another week to be safe.

20mg clomid each of 5 days and .25-.5 of armidex everyday too. Along with a spray of AIMF.

IGF-L at 50mcg for 5 days thus far rotating inj. spots.

I have cut cardio down to 20 minutes THREE tmes a week which is huge for me, but my appetite is suffering.

I ate a lot this weekend, mostly proein though, but a good xmas dinner last night with all the fixings......

I am so friggn tired I don't know what to do. I am training today, tomorrow of thursday, friday and saturday, but yesterdays chest sesssion was hell, lethargic and weak. I did cardio today but didnt at all the last three days so I knew I had to be heavier. I was friggn down 5lbs to a mere 153 at 6'2.....abs are visible, but who cares. I feel pretty shitty. COnstipated and really damn weak.

Diet wise I bet I had 300g of carbs friday
200g sat and sunday
and maybe 250 yesterday

proein has been in the 300 range. I cut back on my overall meal sizes but still feel like I am eating the same, just more spaced out. For example, instead of 1 cup of oats at 7am I have 1/2cup at 7 and 9, etc.....I also have taken out the apple preworkout and added 1/4 cup oats with a blend. Severe stomach cramping and just an overall state of blahh....any thoughts? What effect is the IGF havin on me if any? Is it keeping me lean? Making me lose weight? Keeping me hard? Wuick look at my diet, is it the food consumption thats making me tired? I know I can't overtrain on pct and I wont, so I guess I should go high rep for this month? Correct? Use it as a deload? Wont that jsut burn MORE cals? Thanks for the help!


7am PRO CARB FAT
1/2 cup oats 6.6 30 3 155
4 oz turkey 25 0 1.5 175
6 egg whites 21.6 1.4 0.3 110
53.2 31.4 4.8 440

9am
6OZ FLANK COOKED 42.1 0 10 261
1/2 cup brown rice 1 25 2 120
1/2 cup back beans 8 25 0.8 150
51.1 50 12.8 531

11am
6 oz tuna 52 0 6 275
1/2 cup oats 6.6 30 3 155
0 0 0 0 0
58.6 30 9 430

1pm
6 OZ CHICKEN 52 0 6 275
1 TBSP OLIVE OIL 0 0 13.5 119
52 0 0 19.5 0 394

315
2 scoop blend 50 6 6 250
1/4 cup oats 6.6 20 0.4 75
56.6 26 6.4 325
TRAIN (445-615)


630
SHAKE
virtago or dextrose 0 50 1 225
1 scoop whey 30 4 4 125
POST SUPPS 0 0 0 0
30 0 54 0 5 0 350


800
4 oz all white meat turkey 16.68 - 1.00 116.73
spinach 0.8 10 0.2 60
17.475 10 1.2005 176.725

900
shake 50 5 10 300
or
1/2 cup dry curd 20 1 2 100
1tb pb 7 6 17 110
1/2 scoop blend 10 3 2 60
1/2 cup egg whites 16 1 0.5 80
53 11 21.5 350

368.98 206.40 - 68.70 - 2,946.73
 
The diet looks good bro, but I would add in some natural supps like BCAA's, glut, CEE, Tyrosine (for thyroid stimulation/mood etc), and some taurine.

Bump the clomid to 150 mg for a few weeks, drop the adex which is suppressing your overall estro too much. Just stick with clomid and aifm at 2 sprays.

At 6'2" @ 152 lbs you should just be concerned with keeping muscle on your frame, let the estro come up a bit to give you the pumps and energy.

Also, don't start lifting higher reps, stick with 7-12 reps and mix them on occasion....12 reps for a set, then 8 reps, then back up to 10 etc.
 
BTW, the mind is a bitch bro, your still using HCG which means that your body is producing massive amounts of test. I notice some of my best gains while on hcg.
 
JKurz1 said:
cals arent too low?????
Click to expand...

Its hard for anyone but yourself to determine if your cals are too low. If thats the way you have been eating for a period of time (on your cycle) then stick with it since your metabolism has most like got "aquainted" with that level of energy.

Adding more in PCT will more than likely make you gain a little fat. Ultimately if you are looking to keep the muscle I would bump the calories a bit, mainly pre and post training which will add another 500 calories to your daily intake and will help blunt cortisol levels etc.

Add another 20 g of whey and 20 g of dextrose or fat carbs to your post workout meal. Also, shorten up the time between your pre traiing meal and the time you start training. This way you will avoid a catabloic state during training.

Also, don't space out your meals, if anything tighten up the time in between to say 1 hour and 30 minutes and slightly cut back on the portion size. This will get the metabolism firing and boost nitrogen retention.
 
thanks bro....but why would I can fat if I bumped my cals slightly on IGF and hcg, my test still is gonna be like it was when I was barely running 250mg a wek, right? Maybe I'm a hrt lifer, but I cant get blood tests now because I am #1 recovering and #2 overtrained which is prob. why i had low est to begin with......I jsut feel better on test, so ill stick out this pct and see what happens. Youve been great thanks again....

also, what were your results with IGF and on my rest days (4 of them) do I keep the diet the same? Also, on days I DO FEEL like doing 20 minutes of light cardio walk, do I increase? I wanna stay ripped like you bro.....but 150 wet sucks! It makes life a struggle.....how often do u cheat? Maybe I need a huge carb up......thatll prob. make me feel like total shit, huh?


7am PRO CARB FAT
1/2 cup oats 6.6 30 3 155
4 oz turkey 25 0 1.5 175
6 egg whites 21.6 1.4 0.3 110
53.2 31.4 4.8 440

9am
6OZ FLANK COOKED 42.1 0 10 261
1/2 cup brown rice 1 25 2 120
1/2 cup back beans 8 25 0.8 150
51.1 50 12.8 531

11am
6 oz tuna 52 0 6 275
1/2 cup oats 6.6 30 3 155
0 0 0 0 0
58.6 30 9 430

1pm
6 OZ CHICKEN 52 0 6 275
1 TBSP OLIVE OIL 0 0 13.5 119
52 0 0 19.5 0 394

315
2 scoop blend 50 6 6 250
1/4 cup oats 6.6 20 0.4 75
56.6 26 6.4 325
TRAIN (445-615)


630
SHAKE
virtago or dextrose 0 50 1 225
1 scoop whey 30 4 4 125
POST SUPPS 0 0 0 0
30 0 54 0 5 0 350


800
4 oz all white meat turkey 16.68 - 1.00 116.73
squash or black beans 17.475 30 1.2005 176.725

900
shake w/ walnuts or flax 50 5 10 300
 
Vascular Freak said:
The diet looks good bro, but I would add in some natural supps like BCAA's, glut, CEE, Tyrosine (for thyroid stimulation/mood etc), and some taurine.

Bump the clomid to 150 mg for a few weeks, drop the adex which is suppressing your overall estro too much. Just stick with clomid and aifm at 2 sprays.

At 6'2" @ 152 lbs you should just be concerned with keeping muscle on your frame, let the estro come up a bit to give you the pumps and energy.

Also, don't start lifting higher reps, stick with 7-12 reps and mix them on occasion....12 reps for a set, then 8 reps, then back up to 10 etc.
Click to expand...
oh and I already take all the supps you mentioned esp. taurine, as I am taking clen as well....
 
JKurz1 said:
to hold onto gains....
Click to expand...



hmm. maybe im wrong, but I would think running clen during PCT would absolutely destroy what gains you made. you are just going to burn muscle running clen during PCT.
 
GymIntensity said:
hmm. maybe im wrong, but I would think running clen during PCT would absolutely destroy what gains you made. you are just going to burn muscle running clen during PCT.
Click to expand...
Anti-catabolic :mix:
 
krishna said:
Clen makes me lose weight and muscle. Clen is crap; no wonder you feel lethargic.
Click to expand...
sold......dropped!@

But I did like the feeling since Im so lethargic.....


You loved iGF, even with high cals huh bro? How many cals a day? Stats?
 
JKurz1 said:
sold......dropped!@

But I did like the feeling since Im so lethargic.....


You loved iGF, even with high cals huh bro? How many cals a day? Stats?
Click to expand...

My cals are still low bro. I'm not bumping them til Feb. Still about 2200 a day. Ya I like Igf. I'm trying to find a good research company that has Mgf so I can try it on my lab monkey.
 
Wait a minute. How did you lose 15 lbs since your other thread? You were at168? Whatever you think you know about this weight gaining program, you need to re-think it. Dude, we are losing you....
 
Oh OK. That's not so bad. Stay at it. Eating I mean. Remember, during my rants at you... Make us proud, boy!
 
No, so my protein is too high? Are you insisting my cals are too high too, or do I need to adjust carbs.....my weight is dropping like flys on shit, so I'm not sure the high protein content is a true problem, its cals......
 
Vascular Freak said:
The diet looks good bro, but I would add in some natural supps like BCAA's, glut, CEE, Tyrosine (for thyroid stimulation/mood etc), and some taurine.

Bump the clomid to 150 mg for a few weeks, drop the adex which is suppressing your overall estro too much. Just stick with clomid and aifm at 2 sprays.

At 6'2" @ 152 lbs you should just be concerned with keeping muscle on your frame, let the estro come up a bit to give you the pumps and energy.

Also, don't start lifting higher reps, stick with 7-12 reps and mix them on occasion....12 reps for a set, then 8 reps, then back up to 10 etc.
Click to expand...


See, now I'm 149 today and feel like Im on death row....something has to give.....i'm wondering if my carbs are just too low, almost contest prep carbs and diet....maybe I just need to slam hard for a good 2 weeks and see what happens?? I mean, my body would prob. soak it up like a sponge with minimal fat, wouldnt you agree? Just bump to 5k, get in all the protein clean and then eat whatever doesnt move?
 
I don't see how your weight can be dropping so quick if you are still using HCG, you have higher than normal test levels right now??

Just eat bro, hold onto the muscle and once you are recovered then worry about losing a little chub you have acquired. There is no reason why your weight should drop when you are nly 150lbs. Its not like your beyond your genetic limit at say 235 @ 6'2" then you would notice weight loss without the gear.

Just eat bro....carbs....proteins... as well as more fat!
 
Vascular Freak said:
I don't see how your weight can be dropping so quick if you are still using HCG, you have higher than normal test levels right now??

Just eat bro, hold onto the muscle and once you are recovered then worry about losing a little chub you have acquired. There is no reason why your weight should drop when you are nly 150lbs. Its not like your beyond your genetic limit at say 235 @ 6'2" then you would notice weight loss without the gear.

Just eat bro....carbs....proteins... as well as more fat!
Click to expand...
EVERYTHING?? EVERY HR??
 
Maybe it's work stress, life stress?

Maybe it's training 5-6x a week and am cardio daily....

Maybe it's waking up to piss at night every 2-3 hours?

Maybe it's pct loss even on hcg and nolva.....

but I just dont think it FOOD!!! 3,600 cals at 160 should be plenty.....I am ready to toss in the chips and just go eat non stop for two weeks....seriously....always have something to snack on until i cant eat anymore....then wait and do it again...whatever it takes to get 30lbs on me and now! If it would make me feel better, I'm in.........
 
You're your own stress, dude.. there's more to life than just looking perfect and that's something you don't seem to want to understand. Maybe you should pick up another hobby so that you can not think about this as much -- with the amount of wasted energy you put into this, you're going to end up resenting the whole sport of bodybuilding.. maybe you just need some time off?
 
JKurz1 said:
Maybe it's work stress, life stress?

Maybe it's training 5-6x a week and am cardio daily....

Maybe it's waking up to piss at night every 2-3 hours?

Maybe it's pct loss even on hcg and nolva.....

but I just dont think it FOOD!!! 3,600 cals at 160 should be plenty.....I am ready to toss in the chips and just go eat non stop for two weeks....seriously....always have something to snack on until i cant eat anymore....then wait and do it again...whatever it takes to get 30lbs on me and now! If it would make me feel better, I'm in.........
Click to expand...


3600 is enough? are you kidding me? every individual person is different. my brother is 5'5, 135lbs, and the doc told him in order to gain weight, hes going to have to take in 7000cals per day because he is borderline hypo. You need to quit worrying about fat gain, quit taking clen bullshit, and start eating like ure life depends on it.
 
JKurz1 said:
Maybe it's work stress, life stress?

Maybe it's training 5-6x a week and am cardio daily....

Maybe it's waking up to piss at night every 2-3 hours?

Maybe it's pct loss even on hcg and nolva.....

but I just dont think it FOOD!!! 3,600 cals at 160 should be plenty.....I am ready to toss in the chips and just go eat non stop for two weeks....seriously....always have something to snack on until i cant eat anymore....then wait and do it again...whatever it takes to get 30lbs on me and now! If it would make me feel better, I'm in.........
Click to expand...


We have a winner!

You guessed it man. All that you listed is probably the cause. Your making bb'ing your life. You can't train then sit around all day waiting to eat or drink or piss etc. Give it time, find other hobbies. Go to the gym 1x per day and bang the weights hard for 1 hour, then get out.

If your losing weight, and stressed why keep doing cardio, its only going to make things worse, overtrain, emotional swings, high cortisol=> no results.

Rest, eat a solid meal every couple hours and relax about it bro. Stuffing yourself like a pig is not going to help, its just going to make you feel like shit and further aggrevate the problem.

There really no more to it, eat 30-50g pro, 30-40 carbs, 5-10 fat every 2 hours or so and be done. Limit cardio to no more than 3x a week and training 5x max.
 
I'm going to just do myself a favor, and never ever read a post by "jkurz1" ever again. Bros have been trying to give help way before I ever joined here and he never listens. It's like trying to get an 90yr old paralyzed man to walk again. it aint gonna happen.
 
Vascular Freak said:
We have a winner!

You guessed it man. All that you listed is probably the cause. Your making bb'ing your life. You can't train then sit around all day waiting to eat or drink or piss etc. Give it time, find other hobbies. Go to the gym 1x per day and bang the weights hard for 1 hour, then get out.

If your losing weight, and stressed why keep doing cardio, its only going to make things worse, overtrain, emotional swings, high cortisol=> no results.

Rest, eat a solid meal every couple hours and relax about it bro. Stuffing yourself like a pig is not going to help, its just going to make you feel like shit and further aggrevate the problem.

There really no more to it, eat 30-50g pro, 30-40 carbs, 5-10 fat every 2 hours or so and be done. Limit cardio to no more than 3x a week and training 5x max.
Click to expand...

Done....no more of this carb/fat seperationg fat/pro meals........40/40 every meal......so far I've had two:
1/2 cup oats
1 cup egg whites
sccop protein

#2
6oz flank/lean beef
1/2 cup rice
1/2 cup black beans

next
#3
1/2 cup oats
4oz chicken

then at least 5 more......no more cardio this week...3x was already hit....maybe sunday if I feel a tad better...why the hell am I doing cardio at 155? or whatever my weight it......
 
you're already re-obsessing about.. stop counting your calories, your food, your cardio, your weights.. MAKE IT FUN! Eat/Lift...don't eat/writeitdown/analyze/postaboutit/postmoreaboutit/lift/wonderifyoudidenough/postaboutit
 
JKurz1 said:
Done....no more of this carb/fat seperationg fat/pro meals........40/40 every meal......so far I've had two:
1/2 cup oats
1 cup egg whites
sccop protein

#2
6oz flank/lean beef
1/2 cup rice
1/2 cup black beans

next
#3
1/2 cup oats
4oz chicken

then at least 5 more......no more cardio this week...3x was already hit....maybe sunday if I feel a tad better...why the hell am I doing cardio at 155? or whatever my weight it......
Click to expand...

the question is, why the hell are you eating like a 7yr old little boy????? A fucking ethiopian wouldn't be able to bulk on a diet like that . eat 3 times that amount every meal, and then reevaluate your weight in 2 months.
 
JKurz1 said:
Maybe it's work stress, life stress?

Maybe it's training 5-6x a week and am cardio daily....

Maybe it's waking up to piss at night every 2-3 hours?

Maybe it's pct loss even on hcg and nolva.....

but I just dont think it FOOD!!! 3,600 cals at 160 should be plenty.....I am ready to toss in the chips and just go eat non stop for two weeks....seriously....always have something to snack on until i cant eat anymore....then wait and do it again...whatever it takes to get 30lbs on me and now! If it would make me feel better, I'm in.........
Click to expand...


yup, its all of those things... the same things it was in your LOG thread, the same thing it was last year and the year before that.

Keep posting about it and NEVER taking ANYONE's advice... that will TOTALLY fix it.

You need help from a psychiatrist not the people on this board
 
Fuck it.........next meal is chicken and oats...it was 1/2 cup now it's 1 full cup.....meal after that is QUIZNOSSS>......been 5 years........who cares....
 
GymIntensity said:
I'm going to just do myself a favor, and never ever read a post by "jkurz1" ever again. Bros have been trying to give help way before I ever joined here and he never listens. It's like trying to get an 90yr old paralyzed man to walk again. it aint gonna happen.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Dude weather you are 160lb, 163lbs, 153lbs, or 149lbs(as you have stated all 4 in this thread alone!) you need a shrink!!! Stop waisting our time with the same shit over and over and over again!!
For the last time: quit measuring your fucking food and adding up your cals and just relax and eat! Your so fucking ripped right now and still obsessed with gaining an oz of fat it's ridiculous! You will die from over training and over stressing your body if you don't wise up and listen to what everyone has been telling you here (and every other board your on) for years! Start downing 3 huge scoops of natty peanut butter along with all of your 6 pussy ass meals! Quit the cardio period! Get your mind off your body for two fucking seconds and enjoy the life you were blessed with! Hit the gym 3 Xs a week and try fast food for a month. Fuck, I give up....
D
 
Ill stop here.........after..............

2 footlong quiznoos - loaded steak and cheese
2 cups oats
1 cup rice
over 1lb of chicken and flank steak
eg whites
1 shake, some handfulls of almonds and peanuts
33 packets of splenda with 2 large cafes
galloon of crystal lite
and a fucking big ass stone cold creamry.......I need a drug right now........something to calm me down........im going insane. lol..........
 
JKurz1 said:
Ill stop here.........after..............

2 footlong quiznoos - loaded steak and cheese
2 cups oats
1 cup rice
over 1lb of chicken and flank steak
eg whites
1 shake, some handfulls of almonds and peanuts
33 packets of splenda with 2 large cafes
galloon of crystal lite
and a fucking big ass stone cold creamry.......I need a drug right now........something to calm me down........im going insane. lol..........
Click to expand...


now we are getting somewhere.
 
at 6'2" and 150, you are VERY UNDERweight.......why are you even doing cardio and taking any kind of weight loss aid? Thats AIDS/Cancer patient weight.
 
Stop doing cardio.

Lift only 3-4 times per week AT MOST using compound exercises only.

Stop obsessing over your ABS!

Go eat some fast food.

Go to a doctor and get some help with this condition.

Stop thinking you need something to relieve your stress. Take your girl out to dinner and a movie or take a weekend off to the beach or something with her.

Stop looking in the mirror.

Take 2+ whole weeks off and just eat everything in site before going back to the gym....along with all of the above mentioned.

BMJ
 
did u read what I ate? feel like piss but that's tough shit. doing it again tomrrw after breakfst .....we all are n we r gonna post it its gonna mke us all big fuckers....i refuse to tke time off so forget it... I will reduce it to 4x msx and increase intensity for d0 mins max.....somedays may be light...tomorrw is hammys bis n calves
 
JKurz1 said:
did u read what I ate? feel like piss but that's tough shit. doing it again tomrrw after breakfst .....we all are n we r gonna post it its gonna mke us all big fuckers....i refuse to tke time off so forget it... I will reduce it to 4x msx and increase intensity for d0 mins max.....somedays may be light...tomorrw is hammys bis n calves
Click to expand...


Bro why keep posting if you refuse to follow the best peice of advice..... REST. Go ahead and keep overtraining and overeating, you just end up like a "skinny-fat kid".
 
You should really see a psychiatrist. At 6'2" and under 150, you are WAY too skinny to be worrying about your weight the way you are. You have body dismorphia really bad from what i can tell. You must look so emaciated.....
 
Vascular Freak said:
Bro why keep posting if you refuse to follow the best peice of advice..... REST. Go ahead and keep overtraining and overeating, you just end up like a "skinny-fat kid".
Click to expand...
Who's overeating and not resting?? Cardio is done, training 4x a week max....what am I missing....eat everything you can under one breath, now if you eat a lof you are gonna turn skinny fat......put it this way, true or not? If I ate whatever the hell didn't move for 2 weeks straight, 5000 cals, trained hard, rested harder, and relaxed, tell me I wouldn't gain some nice mass.....? I need to be 200, think it's possible to do 20lbs in the month of January at my current state? Think of it as a contest rebound.....my bro puts on 10lbs in two days...albeit water and glycogen, but I gotta be pretty close to the same way...


BTW - Many many dudes are 6'1-'2 and 150 and completely normal.....look it up...the low end of 6'2 is 143.........i just am carrying 95% muscle and bone. While they hold fat too
 
So where are we going today? Subway toasted steak and cheese for a quiznos coparison, anyone? Whats on the menu? cardio got trashed today, I feel like fuck, but lets go.
 
Eat more potato and pasta. Eat like you're in therapy, lest you forget what the 'T' in PCT stands for.

This isn't a time to be giving any thought at all to your abs. The only matter of any real worth is getting your systems working again. Eat more red meat, egg yolks, milk.

4x per week training is still on the high side. Lift heavy rather than light.
 
Good point......I get close to a half pound of red meat, but I need more egg yolks.....all I have in the office is almonds, jerkey and peanuts right now...well, almonds and peanuts as far as fats......next meal is chicken and I gotta do some nuts, adequate? like 20-30?

No way on the milk....I got the carb sense at home but lactose in norml milk kills me...
 
Its time to give up some of the shred and start putting on the pounds.
BULK, BULK, BULK, BULK, BULK!!!
I think you could get to 200 and still have some abs. Its hard going from shredded to just some abs.. I know first hand. You will feel better though. You will also like the size.
 
I hate the way you're doing HCG at beginning of PCT.. you know hcg is just for size and to get them producing again.. once you stop hcg you'll crash.. you should do it during the end of your cycle and then start your pct after hcg is done..
 
Your obsessions are so strong. If you could channel that from being shredded to being massive, you would be a sight. You need to use that hard-head determination toward a different goal, then worry about cutting. Use the discipline you obviously have to your advantage.
 
"BTW - Many many dudes are 6'1-'2 and 150 and completely normal.....look it up...the low end of 6'2 is 143........."

Could you please post a link or a study or at least where you read this information.

BMJ
 
Yup...just grabbed a few handfulls........one more shake and some oats preworkout then it's:

Straight Leg Deads 4 sets, 12,10,8,6 --> drop set 8
ham curls 3 sets x 8-12
good mornings 3 sets 10,10,10

calves 6 sets

Bis: Ez bar Curls 12,11, 10, 9, 8
Spider curls 12,11,10,9,8
hammer curl 2 sets 8-10
 
I see you have ben a member since 2003. Have you been doing the same routine since 2003?

Good Luck on your gains but you might look at making some changes for your New Years resolution.. trust me age should help you in the end. I hit my 30's and had my best results. Might be that I started listening to my body.

DBAY
 
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