My Proposed First Cycle

[more steel]

Okay so this is going to be my first cycle but I am open to suggestion. I have researched AAS for about 2 years and found EF about a month ago and I am glad I did!

Stats:
Age: 26 and 5/6 J
Height: 5’8”
Weight: 230lbs
BF%: Getting hydrostatic weight soon. Guessing 18% (which is going to come down)
Cycle experience: None. Done creatine and test boosters.
Background: Lifted hard from 14-18 years old. Less consistent but stayed in shape from 19-24. 24-25 made good friends with the people at the bar :-/ and been battling the physical results of this phase ever since it ended. I’m now almost 27 and have dropped close to 27 lbs while getting stronger over the last 6-7 months. I’ve surprised myself and surpassed the weights I was putting up at 18. Even at 18 when I was all-state in 2 sports and cutting from 235 to 215 for wrestling, I didn’t see more than the top 4 abs on a good day (most the time 2 with some little love handles and a sponge beneath the skin below my belly button). Anyways, I’ve got a solid frame and want to use the cycle to expose muscles. This is what I have planned:

4 week Pre-cycle cut: (want to be 15% BF by start of cycle)
GW-501516 – 5mg am and pm
Need2Slin
Forged Burner

8 week Cycle:
Andropen 275: 137.5/137.5/275/275/275/275/275/275
Epistane weeks 6-10 (up until PCT): 20/30/30/40/40
Forma stanzol weeks 3-PCT
HCGenerate

PCT:
Week 1-8: DAA
Week 1-7: Osta 12.5 mg
Week 1-4: Forged PCT
Week 1-2: Forma Stanzol
Week 5-10: Bridge

Diet:
I pretty consistently stick to the paleo diet so my main source of energy is good fats and carbs come from fruits and veggies. Diet will look like this.
3000 kcals
225g protein
Good fats from nuts, fish, avocados, etc.
Carbs from fruits and veggies.

In the end…
I want to drop body fat while retaining if not gaining muscle. Would like to be down to around 12% BF.

I need input on when/how to run the forma and HCGenerate for cycle support. When should I start HCGen to keep the nuts plump? Run it throughout whole cycle and into PCT? Forma is the big question because it says to run it “up to 10 weeks.” But I want to use it on cycle as well as in to PCT. How long do you need it in PCT? I read about how great it is and want to use it to its fullest potential.

Your input is greatly appreciated. Sorry for the big ass post heres some boobs

 

[burnthiscorpse]

OMFG ....someone that did some actual research!!! How refreshing.

Okay so this is going to be my first cycle but I am open to suggestion. I have researched AAS for about 2 years and found EF about a month ago and I am glad I did!

Stats:
Age: 26 and 5/6 J
Height: 5’8”
Weight: 230lbs
BF%: Getting hydrostatic weight soon. Guessing 18% (which is going to come down)
Cycle experience: None. Done creatine and test boosters.
Background: Lifted hard from 14-18 years old. Less consistent but stayed in shape from 19-24. 24-25 made good friends with the people at the bar :-/ and been battling the physical results of this phase ever since it ended. I’m now almost 27 and have dropped close to 27 lbs while getting stronger over the last 6-7 months. I’ve surprised myself and surpassed the weights I was putting up at 18. Even at 18 when I was all-state in 2 sports and cutting from 235 to 215 for wrestling, I didn’t see more than the top 4 abs on a good day (most the time 2 with some little love handles and a sponge beneath the skin below my belly button). Anyways, I’ve got a solid frame and want to use the cycle to expose muscles. This is what I have planned:

4 week Pre-cycle cut: (want to be 15% BF by start of cycle)
GW-501516 – 5mg am and pm
Need2Slin
Forged Burner

8 week Cycle:
Andropen 275: 137.5/137.5/275/275/275/275/275/275
Epistane weeks 6-10 (up until PCT): 20/30/30/40/40
Forma stanzol weeks 3-PCT
HCGenerate

PCT:
Week 1-8: DAA
Week 1-7: Osta 12.5 mg
Week 1-4: Forged PCT
Week 1-2: Forma Stanzol
Week 5-10: Bridge

Diet:
I pretty consistently stick to the paleo diet so my main source of energy is good fats and carbs come from fruits and veggies. Diet will look like this.
3000 kcals
225g protein
Good fats from nuts, fish, avocados, etc.
Carbs from fruits and veggies.

In the end…
I want to drop body fat while retaining if not gaining muscle. Would like to be down to around 12% BF.

I need input on when/how to run the forma and HCGenerate for cycle support. When should I start HCGen to keep the nuts plump? Run it throughout whole cycle and into PCT? Forma is the big question because it says to run it “up to 10 weeks.” But I want to use it on cycle as well as in to PCT. How long do you need it in PCT? I read about how great it is and want to use it to its fullest potential.

Your input is greatly appreciated. Sorry for the big ass post heres some boobs

You should post a pic bro. If your actually 18% at that height and weight, thats pretty big. Extra body fat or not.

Run HCgenerate right through PCT

Dont taper test up or down just go with 275.

Forged burner is good shit. It'll kick your ass.

My advice personally would be run a 4-500 cal deficit and keep the protein high and turn it into a full blown cutting cycle. I think yoou will be much happier in the end if you do.
Then you can focus on piling mass onto that without getting fat afterwards.

 

[Seattleborn206]

Other the what burn said everything looks gtg. I am very impressed with the way you have everything set up. Most newbs don't take the time to do enough research before they post. Good luck bro and if you need any help feel free to shoot me a pm.

 

[obsessedwliftin]

As BTC said this is refreshing. I opened this thread intending on finding yet another I want to run a gram of Tren my first cycle threads. Keep the Test consistent throughout. Run the Hc Genereate right on into PCT and enjoy the ride. Definitely reach the 15% goal before starting and you should have great results. Good luck bro and keep us updated on your progress.

 

[GreenBastard]

I like your pct that looks pretty good, you seem to have everything covered pretty well there isnt much that I see wrong with that cycle. A nice little alternative or possibly second cycle would be

Var at 40mg ED weeks 1-6
Primobolan at 300mg a week for weeks 1-10
Masteron or EQ at 300mg a week for weeks 1-12
Could possibly use some Clen in there too with ephedrine if your looking to burn fat

This cycle would let you keep all your muscle mass maybe add a couple pounds but with the right diet the fat will fall off you and the strength will be way up. I have done this one before myself and I loved it. Nice little cutting cycle, almost no sides at all, excellent results. best of luck keep us posted!

 

[more steel]

Thanks a lot guys! I was worried I forgot something and was going to get chewed up haha.

Just to clarify. Run the HCGen from the start of cycle and all they way through PCT? or a few weeks into PCT?
When should I start and stop the forma stanzol? I want to keep bloating and water retention down as much as possible.

 

[more steel]

OMFG ....someone that did some actual research!!! How refreshing.





You should post a pic bro. If your actually 18% at that height and weight, thats pretty big. Extra body fat or not.

Run HCgenerate right through PCT

Dont taper test up or down just go with 275.

Forged burner is good shit. It'll kick your ass.

My advice personally would be run a 4-500 cal deficit and keep the protein high and turn it into a full blown cutting cycle. I think yoou will be much happier in the end if you do.
Then you can focus on piling mass onto that without getting fat afterwards.

Thanks for the input bro! I will try to get up a pic before I start the 4 week precycle cut. I will have to recalculate my calories but everything I have researched says I need around 3500 to maintain my weight. Think I should drop down to 2500kcal?

I will run 275 straight through and run HCGenerate 4 weeks into PCT because Bridge comes in week 5. When should I start HCGen?

Whats your advice on forma? when to start/stop? no more than 10 weeks?

Thanks for your help

 

[stevesmi]

keep in mind it probably will take you longer than 4 weeks to drop to 15% body fat. with those stats i doubt you are 18%, i would guess 25% or more.

but post a pic if you want an accurate opinion, this is important.

 

[more steel]

keep in mind it probably will take you longer than 4 weeks to drop to 15% body fat. with those stats i doubt you are 18%, i would guess 25% or more.

but post a pic if you want an accurate opinion, this is important.

Ok give me a couple days... I have to wax myself and get a bottle of posing oil. haha jk

But seriously I will get one up soon. And like I said before, I plan on getting a hydrostatic weight taken and thats about as accurate as it gets.

 

[more steel]

Bump for more advice on forma

 

[dylangemelli]

i think that if you bump your gw to 20 mg a day, you will get down to that 15% in the 4 work pre... running it with forged and slin is going to be sweet... you should get a nice little bit of weight loss before you cycle...

i would start forma week 3 and run it through pct... 10 pumps a day... 5 in the a.m. and 5 in the p.m... i always start it mid cycle and run through pct... i do 2 pumps on the chest and 3 on the abs each dose...

i think the one other thing i would add to your pct is unleashed... love ostarine in there... everything else looks great... i think you have a great setup... if you diet and training are hardcore, you will reach your goals and probably surpass them...

 

[oxymoron]

What kind of cardio will you be doing? I'm guessing you'll be doing some serious endurance training, hence the gw.

 

[more steel]

i think that if you bump your gw to 20 mg a day, you will get down to that 15% in the 4 work pre... running it with forged and slin is going to be sweet... you should get a nice little bit of weight loss before you cycle...

i would start forma week 3 and run it through pct... 10 pumps a day... 5 in the a.m. and 5 in the p.m... i always start it mid cycle and run through pct... i do 2 pumps on the chest and 3 on the abs each dose...

i think the one other thing i would add to your pct is unleashed... love ostarine in there... everything else looks great... i think you have a great setup... if you diet and training are hardcore, you will reach your goals and probably surpass them...

I will check my budget and see if I can scrape another $100 together for 2 more bottles of GW.

Will run the forma like you said.

I forgot to mention I have Athletix Division 1 to use in PCT as well. Supposed to be a SHBG inhibitor kinda like unleashed.

Thanks for the input!

 

[more steel]

What kind of cardio will you be doing? I'm guessing you'll be doing some serious endurance training, hence the gw.

I try to vary it to keep it entertaining. Sometimes I hop on the elliptical for 45 min and cruise, sometimes I set up a HIIT circuit of sprints, jump rope, bleachers, box jumps, push ups, etc. Sometimes I do HIIT on the elliptical. If I had to average it out I'd say I do HIIT twice per week and "normal" cardio twice per week.

Sometimes I do HIIT in place of a lower body lift.

 

[oxymoron]

I'm not sure how conditioned you are, but if youre sure your body can take it, hit a morning fasted cardio and then an evening session. Maybe do something where you cruise in the morning then try running in the evening for 20 min as warm-up do you weights which will deplete your glycogen and then hit HIIT with everything you got left in you. It's a nightmare for me b/c i can hardly lift my arms after upper body lifting but HIIT is most effective at burning fat after weight training. And look at substituting one of yor leg days if you go twice at your quads a week with a balls out hill climb hiit to get three hiit sessions instead of 2.
Also, when i first saw you were only doing a 4 wk cutter i was thinkin longer. I'm going to do an 8 wk'er on sarms before i dive into an aas cycle in the summer and i'm starting at 15-16% bf. When the weight starts dropping from the gw (which it will if work ur ass off) you want as much of the definition as you can get before you start to recomp or bulk.... just my dazed half-asleep thoughts before i head out door. Good luck.

 

[more steel]

I'm not sure how conditioned you are, but if youre sure your body can take it, hit a morning fasted cardio and then an evening session. Maybe do something where you cruise in the morning then try running in the evening for 20 min as warm-up do you weights which will deplete your glycogen and then hit HIIT with everything you got left in you. It's a nightmare for me b/c i can hardly lift my arms after upper body lifting but HIIT is most effective at burning fat after weight training. And look at substituting one of yor leg days if you go twice at your quads a week with a balls out hill climb hiit to get three hiit sessions instead of 2.
Also, when i first saw you were only doing a 4 wk cutter i was thinkin longer. I'm going to do an 8 wk'er on sarms before i dive into an aas cycle in the summer and i'm starting at 15-16% bf. When the weight starts dropping from the gw (which it will if work ur ass off) you want as much of the definition as you can get before you start to recomp or bulk.... just my dazed half-asleep thoughts before i head out door. Good luck.

Hey thanks Oxy. I actually normally do fasted cardio when I do the elliptical or lower body HIIT.

Thanks for the advice. My 4 week cut might be extended depending on BF% but I have already kinda been cutting for a while. Plateaued the last couple months due to incorporating more lifting. I definitely plan on going am/pm work outs twice per week. I will try your suggestion on lifting upper then going HIIT. I kinda have to start my cycle by a certain time though so I can't run too much longer of a cut. In the Fall my schedule gets super hectic and I want to be sure I can complete a good full PCT then just work at maintenance in the fall. However, if I can't get down to 15% I will probably put the andropen in the cupboard until next winter/spring.

But... I am a wrestler (once a wrestler always a wrestler) and I have cut my ass off before to get down to weight, and I did it right (while eating clean). So hopefully I will be able to get down. I don't doubt that I will.

 

[more steel]

HIIT question:

Oxy says HIIT is most effective after lifting because it is more effective but why is it more effective? I understand that you have burned through your stored glycogen but isn't HIIT something that requires glycogen? Sprinting is more anaerobic than aerobic and anaerobic is when you are burning glycogen. Is it during the rest periods (when you re-introduce oxygen) that your body goes to your fat stores for energy? When does gluconeogenysis occur?

Im kinda a science guy and am curious how this works. If anyone has some info please let me know! thanks

 

[oxymoron]

well theres two things here. you are trying to deplete the gly stores forcing ur body to rely on fat. Endurance at a moderate pace won't do this at the same rate but high intensity weight and sprints will, particularly the sprints/balls to walls intervals. the idea is anaerobic glycogen burning with weight to get the stores low and then use the rest along with fats durin hiit. the other part to this epoc where ur bodys metabolism will be elevated for a longer period of time. its elevated or maybe excess post oxygen consumption. I found some great write ups and studys but ull have to google it for now I'm at lunch.

Sent from my HTC T-Bolt.

 

[more steel]

well theres two things here. you are trying to deplete the gly stores forcing ur body to rely on fat. Endurance at a moderate pace won't do this at the same rate but high intensity weight and sprints will, particularly the sprints/balls to walls intervals. the idea is anaerobic glycogen burning with weight to get the stores low and then use the rest along with fats durin hiit. the other part to this epoc where ur bodys metabolism will be elevated for a longer period of time. its elevated or maybe excess post oxygen consumption. I found some great write ups and studys but ull have to google it for now I'm at lunch.

Sent from my HTC T-Bolt.

Ok thanks. I will have to research it. But I lifted upper body and did HIIT today anyway. Good times!

 

[oxymoron]

good job bro! when I was saying its hard after weights that was running hiit which I prefer but stationary bikes and stair climbers are pretty damn effective too and require less balancing and swinging of tired pumped arms.

Sent from my HTC T-Bolt.

 

[more steel]

good job bro! when I was saying its hard after weights that was running hiit which I prefer but stationary bikes and stair climbers are pretty damn effective too and require less balancing and swinging of tired pumped arms.

Sent from my HTC T-Bolt.

Yeah I did some bleachers at the high school. Didn't totally kill it but definitely went hard. Ive felt a light dew (sweat) on my body ever since haha. That might be the alpha-t2 though

 

[more steel]

Adex... Cheaper than forma. Would it be better to use adex for an AI? Would still use forma starting after last pin. Wanted to go the OTC method as much as possible but cost is adding up quick.

Also sub HCG for HCGenerate while on? It's much cheaper and I would still use HCGenerate after last pin (or sooner?)

All input is appreciated.

 

[more steel]

Bump for this input ^^^^

 

[oxymoron]

I would stick with the forma stanozolol. Adex is a great AI but all it will do is block aromatase. Forma will serve as your AI but will boost your hpta function and add to lean muscle gains increased fat loss kinda like a supplemental steriod to your cycle. I haven't looked at arimidex prices recently but i thought it was more costly than forma. Regardless if adex is higher it doesn't outweight the forma benefits.

 

[more steel]

I would stick with the forma stanozolol. Adex is a great AI but all it will do is block aromatase. Forma will serve as your AI but will boost your hpta function and add to lean muscle gains increased fat loss kinda like a supplemental steriod to your cycle. I haven't looked at arimidex prices recently but i thought it was more costly than forma. Regardless if adex is higher it doesn't outweight the forma benefits.

Gotcha. That makes sense.

Any input on the HCG vs HCGenerate?