My cycle! HCG mid cycle. How much when?

[musclehealth]

Starting first cycle soon(bulking). This is gona be my final post, before I start the cycle. I want everything to work out for the best. I have posted about 4 times about diet etc...(please dont ask about that stuff...i have covered it before) Most gains kept!

I need help with PCT,clomid, HCG ETC...

week 1:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 1000mg (twice a week 500)
week 2:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 3:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 4:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
Week 5:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 6:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 7:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 8:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 9:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 10:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
I wna do HCG mid cycle. When should I start? How much. Give me a clear map out of when and how much. Add to the blue above. Thanks for all your help guys!!!! Couldnt do it without ya!!!!

 

[stucazz]

I'm on a 12 wk cycle of Test/Deca/Dbol right now. I will be doing 1000iu of HCG mid cycle (one shot) and 50 mg Clomid for a wk. Then do HCG 2 to 3 days after the end of the cycle plus Nolva/Clomid (most people prefer Nolva). Here's a good rule of thumb for ya:

chorionic gonadotropin

Delivery : 1 vial (1ml- 5000 i.u.)



Click to enlarge
Substance: Chorionic gonadotropin

HCG is not an anabolic/androgenic steroid but a natural protein hormone which develops in the placenta of a pregnant woman. HCG is formed in the placenta immediately after nidation. It has luteinizing characteristics since it is quite similar to the luteinizing hormone LH in the anterior pituitary gland.During the first 6-8 weeks of a pregnancy the formed HCG allows for continued production of estrogens and gestagens in the yellow bodies (corpi luteum). Later on, the placenta itself produces these two hormones.

How it works

HCG is manufactured from the urine of pregnant women since it is exereted in unchanged form from the blood via the woman's urine, passing through the kidneys. The commercially available HCG is sold as a dry substance and can be used both in men and women. In women injectable HCG allows for owlation since it influences the last stages of the development of the ovum, thus stimulating ovulation. It also helps produce estrogens and yellow bodies. The fact that exogenous HCG has characteristics almost identical to those of the luteinizing hormone (LH) which, as mentioned, is produced in the hypophysis, makes HCG so very interesting for athletes. In a man the luteinizing hormone stimulates the Leydig's cells in the testes; this in turn stimulates production of androgenic hormones (testosterone). For this reason athletes use injectable HCG to increase the testosterone production.

HCG is often used in combination with anabolic/androgenic steroids during or after treatment. As mentioned, oral and injectable steroids cause a negative feedback after a certain level and duration of usage. A signal is sent to the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis since the steroids give the hypothalamus an incorrect signal. The hypothalamus, in turn, signals the hypophysis to reduce or stop the production of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and of LH. Thus, the testosterone production decreases since the testosterone-producing Leydig's cells in the testes, due to decreased LH, are no longer sufficiently stimulated. Since the body usually needs a certain amount of time to get its testosterone production going again, the athlete, after discontinuing steroid compounds, experiences a difficult transition phase which often goes hand in hand with a considerable loss in both strength and muscle mass.

Administering HCG directly after steroid treatment helps to reduce this condition because HCG increases the testosterone production in the testes very quickly and reliably. In the event of testicular atrophy caused by megadoses and very long periods of usage, HCG also helps to quickly bring the testes back to their original condition (size).

Since occasional injections of HCG during steroid intake can avoid a testicular atrophy, many athletes use HCG for two to three weeks in the middle of their steroid treatment. It is often observed that during this time the athlete makes his best progress with respect to gains in both strength and muscle mass. The reasons for this is clear. On the one hand, by taking HCG the athlete's own testosterone level immediately jumps up and, on the other hand, a large concentration of anabolic substances in the blood is induced by the steroids. Many bodybuilders, powerlifters, and weightlifters report a lower sex drive at the end of a difficult workout cycle, immediately before or after a competition, and especially toward the end of a steroid treatment. Athletes who have often taken steroids in the past usually accept this fact since they know that it is a temporary condition. Those, however who are on the juice all year round, who might suffer psychological consequences or who would perhaps risk the breakup of a relationship because of this should consider this drawback when taking HCG in regular intervals. A reduced libido and spermatogenesis due to steroids in most cases, can be successfully cured by treatment with HCG.

Most athletes, however, use HCG at the end of a treatment in order to avoid a "crash," that is, to achieve the best possible transition into "natural training." A precondition, however, is that the steroid intake or dosage be reduced slowly and evenly before taking HCG.

Although HCG causes a quick and significant increase of the endogenic plasmatestosterone level, unfortunately it is not a perfect remedy to prevent the loss of strength and mass at the end of a steroid treatment. The athlete will only experience a delayed re-adjustment, as has often been observed.

Although HCG does stimulate endogenous testosterone production, it does not help in reestablishing the normal hypothalamic/pituitary testicular axis. The hypothalamus and pituitary are still in a refractory state after prolonged steroid usage, and remain this way while HCG is being used, because the endogenous testosterone produced as a result of the exogenous HCG represses the endogenous LH production. Once the HCG is discontinued, the athlete must still go through a re-adjustment period. This is merely delayed by the HCG use. For this reason experienced athletes often take Clomid and Clenbuterol following HCG intake or they immediately begin another steroid treatment. Some take HCG merely to get off the "steroids" for at least two to three weeks.

Many bodybuilders, unfortunately, are still of the opinion that HCG helps them become harder while preparing for a competion by breaking down subcutaneous fat so that indentations and vascularity are better exposed. The HCG package insert states clearly that HCG has no known effect of fat mobilization, appetite or sense of hunger, or body fat distribution. HCG has not been demonstrated to be effective adjunctive therapy in the treatment of obesity, it does not increase fat losses beyond that resulting from caloric restriction.

Dosages

Athlete should iniect one HCG ampule (5000 I.U.) every 5 days. Since the testosterone level, as explained, remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. The relative dose is at the discretion of the athlete and should be determined based on the duration of his previous steroid intake and on the strength of the various steroid compounds.

Athletes who take steroids for more than three months and athletes who use primarily the highly androgenic steroids such as Anadrol, Sustanon , Cypionate, Dianabol (D-bol), etc. should take a relatively high dosage. The effective dosage for athletes is usually 2000-5000 I.U. per injection and should-as already mentioned-be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a 4 weeks maximum. If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function.

Cycles on the HCG should be kept down to around 3 weeks at a time with an off cycle of at least a month in between. For example, one might use the HCG for 2 or 3 weeks in the middle of a cycle, and for 2 or 3 weeks at the end of a cycle. It has been speculated that the prolonged use of HCG could permanently, repress the body's own production of gonadotropins. This is why short cycles are the best way to go.

Side effects

HCG can in part cause side effects similar to those of injectable testosterone. A higher testosterone production also goes hand in hand with an elevated estrogen level which could result in gynecomastia. This could manifest itself in a temporary growth of breasts or reinforce already existing breast growth in men. Farsighted athletes thus combine HCG with an antiestrogen.

Male athletes also report more frequent erections and an inereased sexual desire. In high doses it can cause acne vulgaris and the storing of minerals and water. The last point must especially be observed since the water retention which is possible through the use of HCG could give the muscle system a puffy and watery appearance.

Athletes who have already increased their endogenous testosterone level by taking Clomid and intend subsequently to take HCG could experience considerable water retention and distinct feminization symptoms (gynecomastia, tendency toward fat deposits on the hips). This is due to the fact that high testosterone leads to a high conversion rate to estrogens. In very young athletes HCG, like anabolic steroids, can cause an early stunting of growth since it prematurely closes the epiphysial growth plates. Mood swings and high blood pressure can also be attributed to the intake of HCG. HCG is also suitable as "over bridge" doping before a competition with doping controls.

HCG's form of administration is also unusual. The substance choriongonadotropin is a white powdery freeze-dried substance which is usually used as a compress. Based on the low structural stability of this compress it can easily fall apart, thus giving the impression of a reduced volume. This is, however, insignificant since there is neither a loss in effect nor a loss of substance.

Each package, for each HCG ampule, includes another ampule with an injection solution containing isotonic sodium chloride. This liquid, after both ampules have been opened in a sterile manner, is injected into the HCG ampule and mixed with the dried substance. The solution is then ready for use and should be injected intramuscularly. If only part of the substance is injected the residual solution should be stored in the refrigerator. It is not necessary to store the unmixed HCG in the refrigerator; however, it should be kept out of light and below a temperature of 25° C. HCG is a relatively expensive compound. Pregnyl costs approx.$36 -45 for 3 ampules of 5000 I.U. each and the relative solution ampules. The other compounds have a similar price and are $12 -15 for 5000 I.U.

 

[musclehealth]

Starting first cycle soon(bulking). This is gona be my final post, before I start the cycle. I want everything to work out for the best. I have posted about 4 times about diet etc...(please dont ask about that stuff...i have covered it before) Most gains kept!

I need help with PCT,clomid, HCG ETC...

week 1:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 1000mg (twice a week 500)
week 2:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 3:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 4:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
Week 5:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 6:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 7:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 8:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 9:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 10:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
I wna do HCG mid cycle. When should I start? How much. Give me a clear map out of when and how much. Add to the blue above. Thanks for all your help guys!!!! Couldnt do it without ya!!!!

(Test eth will be administered on tuesdays and fridays)
(HCG will be administered fridays alongside Test Eth)

week 1:dbol 30mg day.(3 times 10mg, Test Eth 1000mg (twice a week 500)
week 2:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)

week 3:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 4:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
HCG 5000 IU (friday)
Week 5:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
HCG 5000 IU (friday)
week 6:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
HCG 5000 IU (friday)
week 7:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 8:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 9:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 10:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250
Week 11: HCG 5000 IU (friday)
week 12: HCG 5000 IU (friday)
week 13: HCG 5000 IU (friday)

Give me a place to add the nolva/clomid. Tell me what week and the amount.
Its amazing how complex it gets!

 

[musclehealth]

cmon guys. LOL. How does this look. I knows you guys are out there. OK>>>IM gona head out to the gym. Ill be back in about 1.5 hrs. I hope I get a reply by then. Thanks.

 

[awittyusername]

This is how my Dr reccommend HCG use. He is not accepting new patients.


Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.
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ANY ADVICE I MAY GIVE IN NO WAY SUBSTITUTES FOR A PROPER EVALUATION BY YOUR PHYSICIAN; NOR DOES IT CONSTITUTE DR/PT RELATIONSHIP, OR LIABILITY, IN ANY WAY .

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[help4john]

(Test eth will be administered on tuesdays and fridays)
(HCG will be administered fridays alongside Test Eth)

week 1:dbol 30mg day.(3 times 10mg, Test Eth 1000mg (twice a week 500)
week 2:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)

week 3:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 4:dbol 30mg day. (3 times 10mg, Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
HCG 5000 IU (friday)
Week 5:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
HCG 5000 IU (friday)
week 6:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
HCG 5000 IU (friday)
week 7:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 8:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 9:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250)
week 10:Test Eth 500mg (twice a week 250
Week 11: HCG 5000 IU (friday)
week 12: HCG 5000 IU (friday)
week 13: HCG 5000 IU (friday)

Give me a place to add the nolva/clomid. Tell me what week and the amount.
Its amazing how complex it gets!

That's a really good post Awittyusername!

MH.....you may be best served not using 5000IU shots on a single day. Since you want to use mid cycle (as I prefer.....but everyone reacts differently), try 500IU's MWF starting week 4.5 to week 6.5...yes two weeks total.

You will want to visit the PCT forum becuase if you plan on recovering with 5000IU pokes of HCG.....you may get something more than you bargained for. The HCG needs to be split although some argue that the initial dose can be significant....but this is really based on the cycle and the individual. This is not a heavy cycle.....so check out Jenetic's PCT protocol. He goes indepth with Nolva, Clomid, and HCG.

Good luck and enjoy!

 

[musclehealth]

That's a really good post Awittyusername!

MH.....you may be best served not using 5000IU shots on a single day. Since you want to use mid cycle (as I prefer.....but everyone reacts differently), try 500IU's MWF starting week 4.5 to week 6.5...yes two weeks total.

You will want to visit the PCT forum becuase if you plan on recovering with 5000IU pokes of HCG.....you may get something more than you bargained for. The HCG needs to be split although some argue that the initial dose can be significant....but this is really based on the cycle and the individual. This is not a heavy cycle.....so check out Jenetic's PCT protocol. He goes indepth with Nolva, Clomid, and HCG.

Good luck and enjoy!

so instead of fridays useing the HCG...I should do it monday wed friday with 500iu? @ weeks long. What about post cycle? Should I just stick to clomid and nolva? or both HGC and nolva/clomid?

 

[help4john]

so instead of fridays useing the HCG...I should do it monday wed friday with 500iu? @ weeks long. What about post cycle? Should I just stick to clomid and nolva? or both HGC and nolva/clomid?

OK.....if you are using HCG mid cycle for two weeks (yes MWF 500IU's for two weeks), you will need to incorporate HCG in your PCT. Start HCG the week after your last poke. Judging by the dose of your gear 500IU's MWF for three weeks should be sufficient but you can go as high as 1000IU's. After the second week start Nolvadex....you'll get varying opinions on dosage but I simply use 20mg ED for about 6 weeks. According to Jenetic, Clomid is not necessary for cycle whose doses are under 500mg EW....but I always use 50mg Clomid ED with Nolvadex. Some hate Clomid, some love it, some say only Nolva is necessary, some start with higher doses of Clomid then reduce, etc. You need to find what is right for you.....and this is a good a start as any.

Now this is all taking into account that you will not be using HCG throughout cycle. If this were the case, you would not require HCG after injections stop....because your boys would already be normal size. This is certainly another personal preference. I have always used HCG mid cycle and during PCT to receive and retain the best results.

Hope this information is helpful.

 

[slat1]

If that was my cycle I would run hcg at wk 5 & 10... 500iu's a day for 10 days. I would run nolva at the same time so you don't desensitize your LH2. Clomid after the esters clear in the 300/100/50 protocal.
*thats how I would do it.
**Good Luck