My ATF squatting status ;)

[Jim Ouini]

Well for the past, oh, 6 weeks or so I haven't been squatting very heavy. In my 5 x 5's I was squatting in the 335-365 range but only to parallel.

Halfway through, though, I wanted to go ATF and stupidly tried the same weight I was doing before without really having my stance down. Consequently I was having some sharp knee pain from which I never recovered, which then resulted in me going even shorter of ATF than usual (actually above parallel) just to finish the 5 x 5.

Anyway, I first did 4 weeks of front squats, 2 x week. Started at ~165 and ended up at 185 for 5 x 5 and 225 x 3 before I lost my rack. I think this really helped me learn how to sit on my ankles while keeping my lower back tight (plus wearing oly shoes).

Now I'm doing light back squats for 2 x 12 twice/week, up to 175 now and will probably finish at 205 or so in the next couple weeks. These high reps are quite the challenge to my conditioning. I'm doing a little hip bounce as per Rippetoe, it's hard to explain but I think it helps keep me tight at the bottom. Also happy to report my knee pain is gone, although I just think they're creaky in general and need to be warmed up very well. I've found high-rep warmups with the just the bar to be really important in keeping my knees pain free during my sets.

One thing I'm really trying to practice is patience - not going up in weight too much every week even though it feels pretty light, keeping my form tight and just improving little by little every week.

 

[blut wump]

I've found the light warmups have helped me a lot. Play around with stance until it's less uncomfortable. It took me a few workouts to find a position I could work with.

You've reminded me that back at my previous gym, when I used a Smith for 'squats', I would think nothing of starting with 135 for 20 or 25 reps. I doubt that I could be so blasé with a free weight but those light warmups do make a big difference. I never had knee pain back then.

 

[anthrax]

I prefer doing many sets of few reps with light weight rather than few sets of many reps with light weight for warmup

 

[rbtrout]

I started the 5X5 doing just below parallel squats. I changed up on week 2 (?). I knew I wouldn't be able to do the same weight, so I experimented a little. I'm up to 325 on atf squats 4 reps, 5th one crash and burn and let the bb hit the oh shit bars. I warm up with 2 sets of 135 10-20 reps.

 

[Jim Ouini]

I've found the light warmups have helped me a lot. Play around with stance until it's less uncomfortable. It took me a few workouts to find a position I could work with.

You've reminded me that back at my previous gym, when I used a Smith for 'squats', I would think nothing of starting with 135 for 20 or 25 reps. I doubt that I could be so blasé with a free weight but those light warmups do make a big difference. I never had knee pain back then.

Front's really helped me get my stance down - about shoulder width, feet out about 30deg or so. I also practice that Rippetoe-elbows pushing the knees out-thing before I warmup.

I prefer doing many sets of few reps with light weight rather than few sets of many reps with light weight for warmup

I used to only do 5 reps with the bar, then 5 with 135 and then 1-2 reps on the way up. I haven't tried 5 x 5 with just the bar or 135, though. It might take awhile lol

I started the 5X5 doing just below parallel squats. I changed up on week 2 (?). I knew I wouldn't be able to do the same weight, so I experimented a little. I'm up to 325 on atf squats 4 reps, 5th one crash and burn and let the bb hit the oh shit bars. I warm up with 2 sets of 135 10-20 reps.

Yeah I remember you made tremendous progress on ATF squats in your 5 x 5...something like 185 to 325. 20 reps w/135 would pretty much wipe me out for the day I think

 

[Guinness5.0]

I did front squats for the first time ever yesterday and I liked 'em- little/no pressure on low back. It seemed that my abs/obliques were doing nearly all the stabiliizing. I worked up to 195 for 2x6. Kinda sucks that they hardly seem to hit hammies.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Yeah I found that kinda strange considering you're way down in the hole, but I guess it's the weight shift.

No problem holding the rack? I had/have some problems with wrist flexibility and keeping my elbows up.

 

[Guinness5.0]

No problem holding the rack? I had/have some problems with wrist flexibility and keeping my elbows up.

None. These felt natural pretty much from the first rep- I felt like I could have racked a bunch more, but I won't know til I use more weight. I think I may use this "rehab stint" to practice some Oly stuff since you HAVE to go light when starting. I may actually take MC's advice and look for some free coaching around here....

 

[Jim Ouini]

None. These felt natural pretty much from the first rep- I felt like I could have racked a bunch more, but I won't know til I use more weight

Damn kids

 

[blut wump]

Sorry, JLo, I'm with G5.0 on this. The front squat felt very natural from the first session.

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

I did front squats for the first time ever yesterday and I liked 'em- little/no pressure on low back. It seemed that my abs/obliques were doing nearly all the stabiliizing. I worked up to 195 for 2x6. Kinda sucks that they hardly seem to hit hammies.

good job!! Keep at it- I really think leg size/ strength is more developed w/front squats than back squats.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Sorry, JLo, I'm with G5.0 on this. The front squat felt very natural from the first session.

*hangs head in shame*

*hops on leg press for a set to failure*

 

[hangclean]

Make sure your elbows are way out when doing front squats. I seriously doubt if youve never done them they were as easy as you say. It takes even seasoned lifters a few workouts to get the motion down. If your so good at front squats, try doing overhead squats. Those are the best. Also for the person who said it sucks that they dont hit hamstrings, who cares? There are so many movements that hit hamstrings. Front squats are one of the best movements for athletic conditioning.

 

[Guinness5.0]

Make sure your elbows are way out when doing front squats. I seriously doubt if youve never done them they were as easy as you say. It takes even seasoned lifters a few workouts to get the motion down. If your so good at front squats, try doing overhead squats. Those are the best. Also for the person who said it sucks that they dont hit hamstrings, who cares? There are so many movements that hit hamstrings. Front squats are one of the best movements for athletic conditioning.

Well, I read a ton about 'em. looked at lots of pics, and had mirrors in front and diagonal to me while I did 'em. Plus I have a buddy whose an Oly lifter and I've seen her do them dozens of times, just never tried 'em myself. My elbows were out quite a bit. The bar was touching my throat and resting on my ant. delts and felt rock solid. Like I said, they were easy but the weight was light.

It sucks that they don't hit hams for me in particular b/c my back is hurting so a lot great hamstring hitters are not in my program at the moment (dl's, heavy backsquats, etc.). I'm actually planning to add overheads next week, but I need to read up first.

Your post comes off as a little snobby to me. Did you intend it that way or am I just too sensitive?

 

[coolcolj]

try stretching your quads and hip flexors a lot, you might find your knee pain gone forever....

kneeling on a bench/bed (feet off the edeg if you want) and leaning back is sweet for the quads in this case.

 

[hangclean]

My post was not meant to be snobby. I have been around oly lifting and powerlifting for a long time. I have NEVER seen someone doing front squats for the first time do them right. Or hang cleans, power cleans, OHSquats, or any of the full body movements for that matter. Im not saying its not possible, but I have never seen it. Sorry if I sound like a dick. On a positive note I am glad to hear more people doing this kind of lifting.

 

[Guinness5.0]

My post was not meant to be snobby. I have been around oly lifting and powerlifting for a long time. I have NEVER seen someone doing front squats for the first time do them right. Or hang cleans, power cleans, OHSquats, or any of the full body movements for that matter. Im not saying its not possible, but I have never seen it. Sorry if I sound like a dick. On a positive note I am glad to hear more people doing this kind of lifting.

No worries- I'm glad to have someone else to ask about these more technical movements. Besides, I'm not saying I did 'em perfectly, but I'm sure I was in the ballpark, ya know?

Would you say it's best to do them somewhat explosively? Meaning a bit of bounce and a quick push up? That seemed to be a good idea to me but I'm not sure.

 

[hangclean]

Try them like that and try them with a pause at the bottom. The other thing I would recommend is starting from the floor with a clean at the beginning of your set (dont know if you already do this). Do you do cleans?

 

[Guinness5.0]

Try them like that and try them with a pause at the bottom. The other thing I would recommend is starting from the floor with a clean at the beginning of your set (dont know if you already do this). Do you do cleans?

I do power cleans but I'm still kinda dialing in my form. I DO want to "graduate" to full cleans eventually. I rack the bar by performing a power clean, then adjusting my arms a bit to get my elbows up.

 

[hangclean]

Your arms should be the same position for front squatting as the top of the clean.

 

[blut wump]

I do mine with a cross-over grip.

 

[hangclean]

You must be a bodybuilder then.

 

[hangclean]

Not that bodybuilding is bad, but front squats with a crossed arm hold dont have any benefit for functional strength, which is what they are best for.

 

[blut wump]

I think I got the stance from watching, erstwhile World's Strongest Man, Svend Karlsen doing then. When I tried the front squats, the bar seemed more comfortable in that position than in the end-of-clean position so I stuck with it.

What mechanisms do you feel are involved to make the end-of-clean grip so preferable that you would suggest that the other has no benefits for functional strength, which strikes me as complete bollocks, by the way?

 

[hangclean]

I said that because the top of the clean position is more natural than your arms crossed. Having to hold the bar in that position puts you in more of an athletic stance, and it also crosses over to so many lifts. I guess it really depends on what your goals are. If you just want to make your legs grow then the cross over grip would be fine. But for overall athletic development the clean grip is better.