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Mr. X, Ulter (Clarifications on my PCT - Test E/Dbol)

M

markus18

New member
Hi Mr. X,

Thank you for the help in planning out my first cycle. I'm about to start on June 1st...can't wait, so excited. Sorry, if I'm such a stickler...I'm trying to get everything properly prepared for this first cycle.

Wk 1 - 10 - 500 mg Test Ethanate/E4D
Wk 1 - 4 - 30mg Dianabol/day (to kickstart)

PCT (7 - 10 days after last Test shot)

Clomid, 4 weeks PCT
Day 1-3: 300mgs ED
Day 4-7: 200mgs ED
Day 8-15: 100mgs ED
Day 16-30: 50mgs ED

Nolvadex PCT 6 weeks 20-40 mg/ed??

Start of PCT HCG usage, 500IUs ED for 10 days?


DIET - *18 = 2520 CAL. 315G PROTEIN, 189G CARBS, 56G FAT

****************************************************


1) By adding in Dbols, is my PCT still the same?

2) I've decided not to take the Arimidex to maximize my gains. I don't mind now the water retention & bloat. If I retain to much water, then I will consider taking it. Does this change my PCT?

3) Is taking Nolvadex PCT 6 weeks 20-40 mg/ed at the same time as I start Clomid?? (how many mgs/day and 6 wk duration right?)

4) To be on the safe side, I'm thinking of adding HCG.

Start of PCT HCG usage, 500IUs ED for 10 days? Is HCG neccessary, or just overkill? I'd rather err on the side of caution.

To recap, my new PCT :

PCT (7 - 10 days after last Test shot)

Clomid, 4 weeks PCT
Day 1-3: 300mgs ED
Day 4-7: 200mgs ED
Day 8-15: 100mgs ED
Day 16-30: 50mgs ED

Nolvadex PCT 6 weeks 20-40 mg/ed??

Start of PCT HCG usage, 500IUs ED for 10 days.
 
Your idea that leaving out Arimidex will maximize your gains is wrong. I agree you shouldn't use Arimidex; you should use AIFM from the first day of the cycle until your 6 weeks past your last shot. But to not use an AI for that cycle is flat out wrong. Your sides from all that estrogen are a lot more than just a water retention. Your blood pressure will skyrocket, you will gain a lot more fat, and it ruins what could be a great cycle for you.
Also that's WAY too much clomid. You should use 100mg/day for a week and then 50mg/day for another week.
 
Ulter said:
Your idea that leaving out Arimidex will maximize your gains is wrong. I agree you shouldn't use Arimidex; you should use AIFM from the first day of the cycle until your 6 weeks past your last shot. But to not use an AI for that cycle is flat out wrong. Your sides from all that estrogen are a lot more than just a water retention. Your blood pressure will skyrocket, you will gain a lot more fat, and it ruins what could be a great cycle for you.
Also that's WAY too much clomid. You should use 100mg/day for a week and then 50mg/day for another week.
Click to expand...

1) So no Arimidex like Mr. X had suggested? Why, too weak?

2) I can also get British Dragon Aromasin 20mg tablets here for AIFM.
Should I take 1 20mg Aromasin tab/day until 6wks after my last shot?

3) The original Clomid dosage was recommended by Mr. X..so too much?

4) And how about the Nolvadex at 20-40mgs/day for 6wks at start of PCT?

5) What about HCG? needed? dosage/duration?

Thanks Ulter for the advice but all this conflicting info is getting me more confused.
 
Ulter said:
1. yes
2. yes
3. way yes
4. yes
5. 1000iu/day for ten days.
Click to expand...


Ok, lemme see if I got this right :

PCT (7 - 10 days after last Test shot)

20mg Aromasin tab/day until 6wks after my last shot

Clomid, 2 weeks PCT
Wk 1 - 100mg/day
Wk 2 - 50mg/day

6 weeks - Nolvadex 20-40 mg/ed

Start of PCT HCG usage, 1000IUs ED for 10 days.


1) Originally, I read 500IU's HCG ED for 10 days, so now 1000IU's? Isn't that a lot?
 
Ulter said:
You can skip the nolva if you're using Aromasin.
I thought you wanted to save money and use nolva instead for PCT. If you're willing to use it throughout then you're better off.

No, 1000iu/day for ten days is exactly what my prescription reads.
Click to expand...


How about if I just run the nolva during the cycle and use the Aromasin for the last 6 wks of PCT?

Thanks again!
 
DIET - *18 = 2520 CAL. 315G PROTEIN, 189G CARBS, 56G FAT
your goals are???

****************************************************


1) By adding in Dbols, is my PCT still the same?
yes, it can stay the same

2) I've decided not to take the Arimidex to maximize my gains. I don't mind now the water retention & bloat. If I retain to much water, then I will consider taking it. Does this change my PCT?
take 1mg arimidex during 1-4, and you can drop down to .5mgs of arimidex ED for the rest of the cycle. You should mind too much water retention and possible breasts :p (i.e. gyno)

3) Is taking Nolvadex PCT 6 weeks 20-40 mg/ed at the same time as I start Clomid?? (how many mgs/day and 6 wk duration right?)
you can add nolva to your PCT, wk1-2: 40mgs ED, week 3-4: 20mgs ED

4) To be on the safe side, I'm thinking of adding HCG.

Start of PCT HCG usage, 500IUs ED for 10 days? Is HCG neccessary, or just overkill? I'd rather err on the side of caution.
you don't need HCG IMO, but if you go for it - 500IUs ED for 10 days is fine. If you want to add something, go with IGF-1 for 2-4 weeks, but HCG is really not needed
 
I am a believer in the "better be safe then sorry" way of doing things.
You're better off doing the right PCT from the start and making sure you recover right away - no need to take risks.


I reworked this for you.

Clomid and nolva, 4 weeks PCT
Day 1-3: 300mgs ED
Day 4-7: 200mgs ED
Day 8-15: 100mgs ED
day 8-15: 40mgs nolva ED
Day 16-30: 50mgs ED + 20mgs nolva ED


Wk 1 - 10 - 500 mg Test Ethanate/wk (split into mon/thur shots 250mg/each)
Wk 1 - 4 - 30mg Dianabol/day (to kickstart)
wk 1-4 - 1mg arimidex ED
week 5-11 - .5mgs arimidex ED
 
there is no evidence, either clinical or anecdotal that stacking clomid and nolva is more effective than either alone.

it is still a matter of contention whether nolva is as effective as clomid (though its likely that response/success are individual dependent)
 
Mr.X said:
I am a believer in the "better be safe then sorry" way of doing things.
You're better off doing the right PCT from the start and making sure you recover right away - no need to take risks.


I reworked this for you.

Clomid and nolva, 4 weeks PCT
Day 1-3: 300mgs ED
Day 4-7: 200mgs ED
Day 8-15: 100mgs ED
day 8-15: 40mgs nolva ED
Day 16-30: 50mgs ED + 20mgs nolva ED


Wk 1 - 10 - 500 mg Test Ethanate/wk (split into mon/thur shots 250mg/each)
Wk 1 - 4 - 30mg Dianabol/day (to kickstart)
wk 1-4 - 1mg arimidex ED
week 5-11 - .5mgs arimidex ED
Click to expand...

If you don't mind me asking; how would you fit proviron into this PCT format you've outlines?
 
Mr.X said:
I am a believer in the "better be safe then sorry" way of doing things.
You're better off doing the right PCT from the start and making sure you recover right away - no need to take risks.


I reworked this for you.

Clomid and nolva, 4 weeks PCT
Day 1-3: 300mgs ED
Day 4-7: 200mgs ED
Day 8-15: 100mgs ED
day 8-15: 40mgs nolva ED
Day 16-30: 50mgs ED + 20mgs nolva ED


Wk 1 - 10 - 500 mg Test Ethanate/wk (split into mon/thur shots 250mg/each)
Wk 1 - 4 - 30mg Dianabol/day (to kickstart)
wk 1-4 - 1mg arimidex ED
week 5-11 - .5mgs arimidex ED
Click to expand...


Hi Mr X,

Thank you for your reply. Wow, I'm getting even more confused from Ulter's advice and yours. Both are so conflicting, not to say either is wrong. I respect both of you guys opinions a hell lot but wonder about some of your rationales. Although, Mr. X, you were the first to plan out my cycle in a prior thread of mine, so I'll stick to one man's viewpoint or I'll get even more mixed up. Sorry, no disrespect to you Ulter and I'm trying to stir anything up between you two. I like to hear both sides of the coin. :)

1) Ulters viewpoint is that's too much Clomid. Your rationale?

2) take 1mg arimidex during 1-4, and you can drop down to .5mgs of arimidex ED for the rest of the cycle. You should mind too much water retention and possible breasts (i.e. gyno)

My pharmacy is out of stock on Arimidex rite now, can I substitute Aromasin?

What if I ran an AI PCT instead of on the cycle? If gyno starts, couldn't I use Nolvadex to curb it and run my Aromasin on PCT to take out the Gyno?

3) You're saying HCG is not really necessary. I also like to "err on the side of caution". If I take 500ius/ED/10days, am I increasing any side effects or risks? I like the "less is more" theory.

And why 500iu's instead of 1000iu's that Ulters advised? Your rationale?


How would this be for PCT?

Clomid and nolva, 4 weeks PCT
Day 1-3: 300mgs ED
Day 4-7: 200mgs ED
Day 8-15: 100mgs ED
day 8-15: 40mgs nolva ED
Day 16-30: 50mgs ED + 20mgs nolva ED

Wk 1 - 6 Aromasin 20mg ED PCT?

**************

10 wk Cycle

Wk 1 - 10 - 500 mg Test Ethanate/wk (split into mon/thur shots 250mg/each)
Wk 1 - 4 - 30mg Dianabol/day (to kickstart)
 
on cycle:

Adex 1 mg per day
Nolva 10 mgs a day

1 week after last shot of long acting ester use HCG at 2000 ius every 3d or 4th day
do this for about 4 shots
after cessastion of HCG ( still abide by above ant e manegment)

contninue Anti e management for 3-4 more weeks
only this time add clomid AFTER HCG
50 mgs a day should suffice


get blood work, if on low end consider running second half of pct once more
 
Man that clomid at 300mg...

His next thread will be

"I keep crying when I watch chick flicks with my girl...help!"
 
UA_Iron said:
Man that clomid at 300mg...

His next thread will be

"I keep crying when I watch chick flicks with my girl...help!"
Click to expand...


I personally enjoy female feelings, just not their sexual preference
:artist:
 
markus18 said:
1) Ulters viewpoint is that's too much Clomid. Your rationale?

2) take 1mg arimidex during 1-4, and you can drop down to .5mgs of arimidex ED for the rest of the cycle. You should mind too much water retention and possible breasts (i.e. gyno)

My pharmacy is out of stock on Arimidex rite now, can I substitute Aromasin?

What if I ran an AI PCT instead of on the cycle? If gyno starts, couldn't I use Nolvadex to curb it and run my Aromasin on PCT to take out the Gyno?

3) You're saying HCG is not really necessary. I also like to "err on the side of caution". If I take 500ius/ED/10days, am I increasing any side effects or risks? I like the "less is more" theory.

And why 500iu's instead of 1000iu's that Ulters advised? Your rationale?
Click to expand...

1) read what I posted, better be safe then sorry; I am a believe in the right recovery not half ass recovery

2) you can substitute the arimidex with aromasin, start with 10mgs aromasin ED see how the dosage is working for you, you can always bump it up.

If gyno starts, you should use letrozole to get rid of it - nolva, although effective, doesn't come close to letro.

3) if you go with HCG, I believe in staying on HCG the shortest time possible, so 10 days is plenty - that's my rationale for it.
 
markus18 said:
Hi Mr X,

Thank you for your reply. Wow, I'm getting even more confused from Ulter's advice and yours. Both are so conflicting, not to say either is wrong. I respect both of you guys opinions a hell lot but wonder about some of your rationales. Although, Mr. X, you were the first to plan out my cycle in a prior thread of mine, so I'll stick to one man's viewpoint or I'll get even more mixed up. Sorry, no disrespect to you Ulter and I'm trying to stir anything up between you two. I like to hear both sides of the coin. :)

1) Ulters viewpoint is that's too much Clomid. Your rationale?

2) take 1mg arimidex during 1-4, and you can drop down to .5mgs of arimidex ED for the rest of the cycle. You should mind too much water retention and possible breasts (i.e. gyno)

My pharmacy is out of stock on Arimidex rite now, can I substitute Aromasin?

What if I ran an AI PCT instead of on the cycle? If gyno starts, couldn't I use Nolvadex to curb it and run my Aromasin on PCT to take out the Gyno?

3) You're saying HCG is not really necessary. I also like to "err on the side of caution". If I take 500ius/ED/10days, am I increasing any side effects or risks? I like the "less is more" theory.

And why 500iu's instead of 1000iu's that Ulters advised? Your rationale?


How would this be for PCT?

Clomid and nolva, 4 weeks PCT
Day 1-3: 300mgs ED
Day 4-7: 200mgs ED
Day 8-15: 100mgs ED
day 8-15: 40mgs nolva ED
Day 16-30: 50mgs ED + 20mgs nolva ED

Wk 1 - 6 Aromasin 20mg ED PCT?

**************

10 wk Cycle

Wk 1 - 10 - 500 mg Test Ethanate/wk (split into mon/thur shots 250mg/each)
Wk 1 - 4 - 30mg Dianabol/day (to kickstart)
Click to expand...


Thanks Omega for your opinion. Man, so many different viewpoints and opinons. Mr. X, can you share your reasoning for the high Clomid?

Bump again.
 
markus18 said:
Thanks Omega for your opinion. Man, so many different viewpoints and opinons. Mr. X, can you share your reasoning for the high Clomid?

Bump again.
Click to expand...


faster recovery...read my post again plz ;)
 
Mr.X said:
faster recovery...read my post again plz ;)
Click to expand...


Mr X, Thanks, I'll do the Clomid like you recommend. How about these other questions :

1) take 1mg arimidex during 1-4, and you can drop down to .5mgs of arimidex ED for the rest of the cycle. You should mind too much water retention and possible breasts (i.e. gyno)

My pharmacy is out of stock on Arimidex rite now, can I substitute Aromasin?

What if I ran an AI PCT instead of on the cycle? If gyno starts, could I use Nolvadex to curb it and run my Aromasin on PCT to take out the Gyno?

3) You're saying HCG is not really necessary. I also like to "err on the side of caution". If I take 500ius/ED/10days, am I increasing any side effects or risks? I like the "less is more" theory.

And why 500iu's instead of 1000iu's that Ulters advised? Your rationale?


How would this be for PCT?

Clomid and nolva, 4 weeks PCT
Day 1-3: 300mgs ED
Day 4-7: 200mgs ED
Day 8-15: 100mgs ED
day 8-15: 40mgs nolva ED
Day 16-30: 50mgs ED + 20mgs nolva ED

Wk 1 - 6 Aromasin 20mg ED PCT?

**************

10 wk Cycle

Wk 1 - 10 - 500 mg Test Ethanate/wk (split into mon/thur shots 250mg/each)
Wk 1 - 4 - 30mg Dianabol/day (to kickstart)
 
AIFM will be a great addition to your PCT. It's the best product EVER :qt:
 
OMEGA said:
on cycle:

Adex 1 mg per day
Nolva 10 mgs a day

1 week after last shot of long acting ester use HCG at 2000 ius every 3d or 4th day
do this for about 4 shots
after cessastion of HCG ( still abide by above ant e manegment)

contninue Anti e management for 3-4 more weeks
only this time add clomid AFTER HCG
50 mgs a day should suffice


get blood work, if on low end consider running second half of pct once more
Click to expand...


wanted to drive this one home since it has brought much happiness :)

found Nolva to be an all or nothing type of addition

10 mgs was fine on or off 20 mgs and above excessive, just a nuanced piece of info to share.
 
Mr.X said:
you don't need HCG IMO, but if you go for it - 500IUs ED for 10 days is fine. If you want to add something, go with IGF-1 for 2-4 weeks, but HCG is really not needed
Click to expand...

So Mr. X, you don't recommend HCG as part of any "normal" PCT regimens? Or only if it's way longer and/or higher dosed? Just curious bro ;)
 
Last edited:
I am not Mr X

but HCG is such an effective preventative measure against prlonged crashes that to not consider it would be like not having a hot dog with a bun
 
What if I ran an AI PCT instead of on the cycle? If gyno starts, could I use Nolvadex to curb it and run my Aromasin on PCT to take out the Gyno?
you need an AI during the cycle, there is no other way to go - use preventive measures from the start


And why 500iu's instead of 1000iu's that Ulters advised? Your rationale?
HCG comes from pregnant female urine, how long do you want to inject female urine into yourself? .... HCG can give you sides like gyno etc... so the shorter your run, the better IMO

How would this be for PCT?

Clomid and nolva, 4 weeks PCT
Day 1-3: 300mgs ED
Day 4-7: 200mgs ED
Day 8-15: 100mgs ED
day 8-15: 40mgs nolva ED
Day 16-30: 50mgs ED + 20mgs nolva ED

Wk 1 - 6 Aromasin 20mg ED PCT?

I already layed out a PCT run for you, there is no need to keep changing it
 
Mr.X said:
What if I ran an AI PCT instead of on the cycle? If gyno starts, could I use Nolvadex to curb it and run my Aromasin on PCT to take out the Gyno?
you need an AI during the cycle, there is no other way to go - use preventive measures from the start


And why 500iu's instead of 1000iu's that Ulters advised? Your rationale?
HCG comes from pregnant female urine, how long do you want to inject female urine into yourself? .... HCG can give you sides like gyno etc... so the shorter your run, the better IMO

How would this be for PCT?

Clomid and nolva, 4 weeks PCT
Day 1-3: 300mgs ED
Day 4-7: 200mgs ED
Day 8-15: 100mgs ED
day 8-15: 40mgs nolva ED
Day 16-30: 50mgs ED + 20mgs nolva ED

Wk 1 - 6 Aromasin 20mg ED PCT?

I already layed out a PCT run for you, there is no need to keep changing it
Click to expand...


Thanks Mr X for laying it all out.

Problem is I can't get any Arimidex, can I use Aromasin and at what dosages/durations?
 
markus18 said:
Thanks Mr X for laying it all out.

Problem is I can't get any Arimidex, can I use Aromasin and at what dosages/durations?
Click to expand...

yes you can use aromasin, just cut it down to 4 weeks. ;)
 
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