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MP5's Banning

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George Spellwin

The Architect
Staff member
Head Moderator
Administrator
Moderator
Members,

As you know, MP5 was banned today. I was not involved in his banning, but I support it 100%. And I apologize to the members and Mods for his past conduct -- it was unacceptable and I should have dealt with it sooner.

For as long as I can remember, he came to Elite and did his best to fill it with hatred. He hated African Americans, Jews, gays, and women -- and probably many other groups that I have not listed here.

He not only hated groups of our members, but he professed to hate the EliteFitness.com site, hate our Platinum memberships that make the site possible -- and I know he hates me. Yet, like clockwork, you could count on him being here each and every day.

When I created this site, I envisioned a place where everyone felt welcome regardless of what you are or who you are. That does not mean we cannot discuss and have differences of opinion -- even get angry and have the occasional flame war, because these things are all good. However, respect for our differences and for the art of discussion is key -- because that what brings you here, keeps you here, and that's what's hard to find on the other board on the net. But at a point, you cross a line where you begin to hurt my creation, the Elite Fitness Lifestyle, and my business. MP5 crossed that line too frequently.

The sad thing is, if someone with that much hate actually succeeded in driving away those people he disliked, conversations would be so one sided, that there would be nothing worth talking about!

I don't visit the other boards, but for the most part, I am told that they lack the diversity we have here. For example, I'm told that few other boards have female members because they don't feel welcome. And what a tragedy this is.

Living up to my ideals for the Elite Fitness Lifestyle is tough. In fact, I would give myself and the boards only a C+ or a B- recently. But I do know in my heart, that with MP5's banning, we took a step in the right direction.
 
I don't have anything relevant to say, I just wanted to be a part of this thread as it will no doubt lead to fame and fortune one day.
 
The reason the C&C board is so dull these days, is BECAUSE people like MP5 get banned. Did you see how many views/posts a really good flame thread gets on here??? Shit, the one causing MP5's banning is like 6 pages and growing (unless it's locked already.)

It's people like PUC, MP5, StrongChik (whatever she was called), etc who really liven the board up. When you ban them, it just makes things dull around here.

Other than that, keep up the great work. Love the site, George. :)
 
Taps said:
The reason the C&C board is so dull these days, is BECAUSE people like MP5 get banned. Did you see how many views/posts a really good flame thread gets on here??? Shit, the one causing MP5's banning is like 6 pages and growing (unless it's locked already.)

It's people like PUC, MP5, StrongChik (whatever she was called), etc who really liven the board up. When you ban them, it just makes things dull around here.

Other than that, keep up the great work. Love the site, George. :)

Flaming's fine -- cursing too. Try that in most places. Just respect discussions and love EliteFitness.com.
 
naturally anabolic said:
George, who do i have to contact about having my screen name shortened to Natty ?

Go Platinum and we'll do it right away ;)
 
lol, i was platinum for months ;) but untill you guys can say that the board issues are once and for all suppressed i will remain a lonely nonplat....but i will be plat again.
 
George Spellwin said:
Just sent you a Spellwin Karma 20! Send some back this way -- but no, this is not a Karma thread.

It is good to have at least an official explanation as to one's membership status, so there won't be anymore futile threads or dilemmas in regard to one's being banned.

This should clear up everything..Or does it?

As far as karma...I don't think we have met yet...I will check my profile later to see what you had to say in your deffense..
:D :D

Just kidding....karma can brew monsters sometimes....evil as is evil does..
 
MP5 was friendly to me but I respect the decision and I do believe that banning is appropriate if a couple warnings do not work.

Sure many of you guys relish the negativity and hate but it DOES keep a lot of normal people away. I would very much like to see more normalcy and less stupidity, shallowness, hate, and most of all..............less talk about feces and anuses.

Thats my .02
 
I can say that a handful of other boards I've visted are less than female friendly. Not that a site has to cater to women, but if I don't feel comfy, I don't post.
 
For as long as I can remember, he came to Elite and did his best to fill it with hatred. He hated African Americans, Jews, gays, and women -- and probably many other groups that I have not listed here.

fuck. there goes half the board.

He not only hated groups of our members, but he professed to hate the EliteFitness.com site, hate our Platinum memberships that make the site possible -- and I know he hates me. Yet, like clockwork, you could count on him being here each and every day

theres a line that will never be crossed. hate on the niggers and queers, but NEVER cross the almighty Plat!

know your role.
 
Thanks for keeping the site worth coming to, George.

Now, let's discuss the "Free EF T-Shirt for Plat members".:D


Joker
 
If I might add in regard to banning someone,wouldn't be fair as preemptive measure, to use one or two warnings before one is really banned? Like a 3 strikes ruleas this will give time for reflection as to one's decision to straighten up his/her act or otherwise.

It just seem fair to warn one before he/she gets the boot..
 
out_at_sea said:
If I might add in regard to banning someone,wouldn't be fair as preemptive measure, to use one or two warnings before one is really banned? Like a 3 strikes ruleas this will give time for reflection as to one's decision to straighten up his/her act or otherwise.

It just seem fair to warn one before he/she gets the boot..

I think warnings are good and all, but that guy knew he was pushing it and it looked like he knew clear and well where he was taking himself.

So if his screen name is banned does that mean he can still come back under a different name
 
Sure many of you guys relish the negativity and hate but it DOES keep a lot of normal people away. I would very much like to see more normalcy and less stupidity, shallowness, hate, and most of all..............less talk about feces and anuses.

some of the most shallow ppl on here arent hatefull. id say thered be plenty of poster MIA if shallowness suddenly became illegal. and certainly most of the ladies.

as a side note to the ladies talking about being uncomfortable at other boards: i find that unless a steady stream of asskissing is fed there way, they tend to get bitchy. i remember one ladiy whos on here often flying off the handle at a guy for commenting on her wide birthing hips and something about her nose, after she was continually rude to him.

if you cant take it, dont dish it.
 
ajtomasi said:


I think warnings are good and all, but that guy knew he was pushing it and it looked like he knew clear and well where he was taking himself.

So if his screen name is banned does that mean he can still come back under a different name


only with the appropriate ip blocker...:D

i liked mp5, i dont remember his posts seething with
hatred, but to be fair, my memory is shit...

as for his feud with BM, this has been going on forever
and this bout didnt differ from the norm...

if anything, it was tamer than usual...

i will review his posts and edit this if i objectively
find anything resembling what he is accused of...

fair enough???
 
George Spellwin said:


Done! And thanks for supporting the site as a Platinum member.

strider364

:strider36

Thanks George! I am a loyal EFer, I enjoy your site, have made a lot of friends, met some great people, and learned a lot. With the knowledge I gained here, it has given me the confidence to do my first bodybuilding show within the year. I will post here as long as EF is on the net. I owe you thanks! Stryder364
 
strider364 said:


Thanks George! I am a loyal EFer, I enjoy your site, have made a lot of friends, met some great people, and learned a lot. With the knowledge I gained here, it has given me the confidence to do my first bodybuilding show within the year. I will post here as long as EF is on the net. I owe you thanks! Stryder364


since strider is buckin for mod...:D

i should add that i agree with everything he said...

this board has got me thru some hard times and
has improved my debating skills and i truly
do like the board, the people, and look forward to
meeting some of them someday...

p.s. 2Thick stinks...:D
 
Yeah, and I think he may have been secretly boning may1010. He took it way personal.
 
Whats up girl?

Can you believe I have gone this many post without acting up?

Hope everything is going well with you.

:D
 
I'll say this, MP5 could be a disagreeable, crotchedy, ornery, surly, bullheaded a-hole. It's too bad that he's gone.

I'm pretty sure he has posted some stuff that GS speaks of, but seriously that was a while back. He's hardly been on the board as of late. Then after the shit that happened today he gets banned? Nice coincidince!!! Either way, I won't lose any sleep about it, neither will he I'm sure, and neither should anyone else.
 
naturally anabolic said:
no, not at all...probably dont know about my leukemia, its a long story.

So sorry to hear about that brother.

Hope everything works out for the best.

Stay Strong....
 
That is cool! I didn't even know I had one. I'm a sniper, that is the shit!
 
when will i learn not to click on darktooth links???

this is just disgusting...


2226405.jpg
 
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I think I could care a less about the banning of MP5... at least his being gone... LOL. Racist comments just aren't good...

I just wish people would take more time and consideration and RESPECT... like I do... when they post...

yes... respect... .... respect... yes... respect... :)

C-ditty
 
Sometimes he offended people and sometimes he just put them in their places. While I didn't agree with alot of his views, his posts were often entertaining.
 
Citruscide said:
I think I could care a less about the banning of MP5... at least his being gone... LOL. Racist comments just aren't good...

I just wish people would take more time and consideration and RESPECT... like I do... when they post...

yes... respect... .... respect... yes... respect... :)

C-ditty

I disagree, counselor.

Life is a balance of all sides. He was at one end.

Hope BMOM is happy now.
 
Banning on this board is always turned into such a dramatic deal, when in fact all it means is that the user who was banned will no longer be posting under that handle anymore. MP5 was back on the board logged in and posting under a different handle almost immediately after he was banned.

In regards to the reasons why MP5 was banned, here's something to think about. George listed the various groups of people toward which MP5 showed hatred. One of these groups was women. I think the most infamous person on this board who has shown blatant hatred towards women is our own moderator, Citruscide. Citrus went so far as to fabricate a chat board coalition called B.I.T.C.H.S. and declare himself head of this. The sole purpose of this coalition was to talk shit about women and berate them for everything they stand for.

But George decided that this guy was a fantastic choice for a moderator because he uses gear and has a law degree. Great!! In his published profile of Citruscide, he listed the fact that his posts are always a source of controversy here as one of his assets. Was that not what MP5 did? If MP5 had a PHD in biochemistry, would this have changed the guy's fate?

This is not to say that I don't agree with MP5's removal. I agree that he didn't really bring much more to this board than a lot of hatred. My point is that George took a guy who did the exact same thing, and saw him a fit choice for a moderator. That doesn't sit well with me in light of all of this.
 
supersizeme said:
Banning on this board is always turned into such a dramatic deal, when in fact all it means is that the user who was banned will no longer be posting under that handle anymore. MP5 was back on the board logged in and posting under a different handle almost immediately after he was banned.

In regards to the reasons why MP5 was banned, here's something to think about. George listed the various groups of people toward which MP5 showed hatred. One of these groups was women. I think the most infamous person on this board who has shown blatant hatred towards women is our own moderator, Citruscide. Citrus went so far as to fabricate a chat board coalition called B.I.T.C.H.S. and declare himself head of this. The sole purpose of this coalition was to talk shit about women and berate them for everything they stand for.

But George decided that this guy was a fantastic choice for a moderator because he uses gear and has a law degree. Great!! In his published profile of Citruscide, he listed the fact that his posts are always a source of controversy here as one of his assets. Was that not what MP5 did? If MP5 had a PHD in biochemistry, would this have changed the guy's fate?

This is not to say that I don't agree with MP5's removal. I agree that he didn't really bring much more to this board than a lot of hatred. My point is that George took a guy who did the exact same thing, and saw him a fit choice for a moderator. That doesn't sit well with me in light of all of this.

Double standard? YES!
 
Why is it when someone gets banned... shit constantly comes back to "look at Citruscide"

let's get the facts straight children. Sexual Mustard FORMED BITCHS... not me. I'm not the leader... but am second in command of it.

BITCHS prime directive was to educate men about the evils of women... come on now... do we really have to have a revival instructionary period of BITCHS? :)

Remember... it is not about anger... but peace...

C-ditty
 
I think I made it pretty clear why it's a valid point to look back at you and your presence on this board. The shitstorm of positive karma I got nailed with from that post tells me that more than a few other members agree.

Ok, so SM was the leader of B.I.T.C.H.S. You were by far the most outspoken member of it. You started threads talking about how much women suck, and your posts were riddled with woman hatred. If now you want to euphemistically change that around to make it sound like you were merely trying to instruct guys on how women work, you're kidding yourself. You have/had some serious pent up rage against females stemming from real life situations in your past. Fortunately you seem to be past it now.

I'm just trying to point out the double standard that hit me in the face with MP5's banning. I'm not trying to take a giant shit on you.
 
supersizeme said:
I'm trying to take a giant shit on you.

WTF ..There's other boards for this you know..

Well be sure to take pics anyway. One guy shitting on another is always fun to look at no matter what the weather.

By the way, WHERE exactly do you want to shit on him anyway?

I'm picturing you painting a nice little bullseye around each nipple using some edible body paint.
 
Classic example of how NOT TO take it too far. As you all know there was more than one occasion when Citrus and I locked horns. We took it to private conversations and there were times when THAT SHIT didn't even work. So we just didn't speak. I opened his "female hating" threads on occasion and though it didn't make me click my heels with glee, I didn't find the stuff completely crossing the line.

There is a lot of stereotypical shit about MANY FEMALES that is true (not ALL but MANY) and it makes me embarrassed to also be in possession of a vagina. However, MP5 thought that because the boards became "kinder,gentler about a year ago" that it meant he could say whatever the fuck he wanted to and it wouldn't make a damned bit of difference.

Truth is a lot of freaky shit went on around here connected to my handle so the rules were VERY LAXED because a lot of very bizaare posts that were made under my handle WERE NOT MADE BY ME - long stupid story and it doesn't amount to jack. So, because of all the nonsense, there was a certain amount of backlash and I sat back and took a lot of it. But after a certain period of time, enough was fucking enough.

When things got back to normal around here every now and then a former Triedia bonehead would rear his mentally impaired head and would try his damnedest to get his sorry ass banned. I have yet to think of a singular handle that got banned for NO REASON. If any board member can think of one please post it. And I am sorry, because YOU THINK THAT SOMEONE WAS FUNNY AND LIVENED THINGS UP AROUND HERE THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE DECISION TO BAN HIM WAS NOT JUSTIFIED.

If Mr MP5 and his cohorts can control themselves then I don't see why he would ever be banned again. However, this never ceases to amaze me, that those members who were the biggest assholes prior to getting themselves banned continued to create handle after handle after handle just to stir shit up to be banned again and again and again.

WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU CONTINUALLY RETURN SOMEWHERE IF YOUR BEHAVIOR WAS SUCH THAT YOU WERE HELPED OUT THE DOOR?! OBVIOUSLY YOU DIDN'T WANT TO BE THERE BECAUSE YOUR BEHAVIOR WAS SUCH THAT IT WARRANTED REMOVAL. SO WHY KEEP COMING BACK TO STIR UP MORE SHIT?

Is it to have other members say, "Yea, that guy was an asshole, but dammit he was funny?" Wouldn't that make them the village idiot?

Help me understand this phenomena.

And I, for one miss MP5. :( Glad to hear that he was back in seconds posting under another handle. I wonder how long he will be able to control himself.

Finally, for the person who made the comment about being negative towards a female because YOU THINK that other guys give her too much attention and she needs to be taken down a few. Your comments make ZERO SENSE. I guess because I am not in possession of the proper urinary tract my mind just can not take it all in.
 
bwood said:

as for his feud with BM, this has been going on forever
and this bout didnt differ from the norm...

if anything, it was tamer than usual...

i will review his posts and edit this if i objectively
find anything resembling what he is accused of...

fair enough???

You are wrong. The fued was not going on forever. It began last year this time. Before then, I never had a beef with him. He took it upon himself to begin berating me PERSONALLY because I didn't fill him in on the specifics of what happened with all the nonsense that was connected with my handle. Puc was another one who took the fact that I DID NOT fill him in on the personal details of my life to heart. Which seems odd since I never knew either of them before. Just had friendly discourse here and there and that was it. We never really emailed or even IM'd.
 
I am all for bannings as long as it's not me. In fact I have a list of people, a very short list, perhaps around 40-50, that I would like to see banned myself and will be focusing some energy to that end. Superpoopie, in all fairness I don't think C's posts can be compared to MP5's.
 
supersizeme said:
I'm just trying to point out the double standard that hit me in the face with MP5's banning. I'm not trying to take a giant shit on you.

Good posts, SS. Do you think it makes a difference that C-Ditty was bitching about women generally whereas MP5 actually attacked female members of the board? Before BM, he went after the also-banned smalls. You will remember he posted compromising pictures of smalls and attacked her viciously and repeatedly on Triedia and here when he could.

By the way, someone mentioned Strongchick on this thread. She was not banned. She left because of the continual attacks on her. As I recall, a group actually organized to hit her with as much negative karma as possible.
 
strider364 said:


Thanks George! I am a loyal EFer, I enjoy your site, have made a lot of friends, met some great people, and learned a lot. With the knowledge I gained here, it has given me the confidence to do my first bodybuilding show within the year. I will post here as long as EF is on the net. I owe you thanks! Stryder364

Send me your before and after pics -- maybe we can do a member profile on you!
 
Darktooth said:
Chesty, I think MP5 snapped when May1010 got banned. I remember his posts during that time, and they were rather funny at times.



George, when do I get my smiley? :D Do I have to e-mail one to you? :angel:

Yeah, send me one! or post it here.
 
musclebrains said:


Good posts, SS. Do you think it makes a difference that C-Ditty was bitching about women generally whereas MP5 actually attacked female members of the board? Before BM, he went after the also-banned smalls. You will remember he posted compromising pictures of smalls and attacked her viciously and repeatedly on Triedia and here when he could.

By the way, someone mentioned Strongchick on this thread. She was not banned. She left because of the continual attacks on her. As I recall, a group actually organized to hit her with as much negative karma as possible.

oh th e whoreor.
 
I think that ____________ should bend over and ___________ my big fat huge _________ __________ and then flip over and let me _________ their ________ until their head spins around like the ________ exorcist.
 
supersizeme said:
Banning on this board is always turned into such a dramatic deal, when in fact all it means is that the user who was banned will no longer be posting under that handle anymore. MP5 was back on the board logged in and posting under a different handle almost immediately after he was banned.

In regards to the reasons why MP5 was banned, here's something to think about. George listed the various groups of people toward which MP5 showed hatred. One of these groups was women. I think the most infamous person on this board who has shown blatant hatred towards women is our own moderator, Citruscide. Citrus went so far as to fabricate a chat board coalition called B.I.T.C.H.S. and declare himself head of this. The sole purpose of this coalition was to talk shit about women and berate them for everything they stand for.

But George decided that this guy was a fantastic choice for a moderator because he uses gear and has a law degree. Great!! In his published profile of Citruscide, he listed the fact that his posts are always a source of controversy here as one of his assets. Was that not what MP5 did? If MP5 had a PHD in biochemistry, would this have changed the guy's fate?

This is not to say that I don't agree with MP5's removal. I agree that he didn't really bring much more to this board than a lot of hatred. My point is that George took a guy who did the exact same thing, and saw him a fit choice for a moderator. That doesn't sit well with me in light of all of this.

I hear what you are saying and I appreciate your concern. But I think there is a subtle difference -- C-Ditty, Warik, RyanH, Chesty, MuscleBrains, may all be sources of controversy, but they all stimulate conversation and all support the EliteFitness.com site which is a business. A good discussion or even argument, brings people in. MP5 drove them away.
 
supersizeme said:
I think I made it pretty clear why it's a valid point to look back at you and your presence on this board. The shitstorm of positive karma I got nailed with from that post tells me that more than a few other members agree.

Ok, so SM was the leader of B.I.T.C.H.S. You were by far the most outspoken member of it. You started threads talking about how much women suck, and your posts were riddled with woman hatred. If now you want to euphemistically change that around to make it sound like you were merely trying to instruct guys on how women work, you're kidding yourself. You have/had some serious pent up rage against females stemming from real life situations in your past. Fortunately you seem to be past it now.

I'm just trying to point out the double standard that hit me in the face with MP5's banning. I'm not trying to take a giant shit on you.


There is a double standard and it gets more obvious with each and every passing day.

As for MP5, I could care less, but apply the rules fairly or not at all.
 
bikinimom said:
. I have yet to think of a singular handle that got banned for NO REASON. If any board member can think of one please post it. And I am sorry, because YOU THINK THAT SOMEONE WAS FUNNY AND LIVENED THINGS UP AROUND HERE THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE DECISION TO BAN HIM WAS NOT JUSTIFIED.

Smallmovesal.
 
naturally anabolic said:


Smallmovesal.

Actually Smalls was not the only woman banned for making life miserable for some poor man. I can't remember the name of the other one but she was also, by coincidence, a very strongly opinionated woman.

The women that hold their own here tend either to avoid rocking the boat or, like BM, have fierce personalities. That's a compliment, BM.
 
musclebrains said:


Actually Smalls was not the only woman banned for making life miserable for some poor man. I can't remember the name of the other one but she was also, by coincidence, a very strongly opinionated woman.


my good buddy buksoon got banned, over some serious BS. Back when I'd get pissed when people got banned.
 
musclebrains said:


Actually Smalls was not the only woman banned for making life miserable for some poor man. I can't remember the name of the other one but she was also, by coincidence, a very strongly opinionated woman.

The women that hold their own here tend either to avoid rocking the boat or, like BM, have fierce personalities. That's a compliment, BM.

you forgot about mommakin too hoss... there was a bunch of them. ALOT of people have been banned from this site..
 
musclebrains said:


Tell her I said hey. I assume you mean she worked out her career issues.

those career issues will probably always be a source of pain. Somehow I think she's not 100% into working. But she's far away from NJ in near tropical conditions. And she's happy about that.
 
naturally anabolic said:


Smallmovesal.

She is doing good in the SFV! It's to bad you don't know her new "Name" and "look!" I always told her to go under the knife and work on film! And of course again I was right!
 
dballer said:


you forgot about mommakin too hoss... there was a bunch of them. ALOT of people have been banned from this site..

You're right. I did forget her. Seems like she really was naughty though. I don't remember.
 
These banning thread resembles wake conversations.

You people act like the poster actually died.

Get over it. Or do what I do, talk to MP5 via email.
 
AAP said:
These banning thread resembles wake conversations.

You people act like the poster actually died.

Get over it. Or do what I do, talk to MP5 via email.

Well, it is kind of like the death of an online persona and it changes the face of the community.
 
Mommakin and Smallmovesall got banned because they deserved to be banned. While I didn't ask for Smalls' banning, I did not contest it either.

I DID however PERSONALLY SEE TO MOMMAKINS' BANNING AS WELL AS HER BANNING WHEN SHE WAS LISATHESTRONG.

So for any of you who think when I ask for someone to be banned it has anything to do with "my hairy ass" PUH-LEASE get over yourselves.

Thanks Musclebrains! I wouldn't have it any other way. Like me or hate me, one thing that one can never say is that I am not upfront, in your face for real, and that I try to keep it as real with myself as I do for others. I regularly expose my human weaknesses not for "cyber sympathy". I do it because I am not ashamed to admit to them and because if it helps just one other person to NOT FEEL ALONE or for that person to learn from my mistakes - it is 100% worth it.

If any member find this irritating or whatever - so be it. I am way passed my teens and twenties where I feel the need to please everyone. Now that I am moving closer to my forties I don't feel the need for validation either.

Getting older sucks on the one hand, but on the other it does have its benefits! :D
 
I still enjoy the fact that if u fight upstream against the masses, in your own unique way, you get your ass handed to you in the form of a banning. That is of course unless u are platinum.
 
bikinimom said:
Mommakin and Smallmovesall got banned because they deserved to be banned. While I didn't ask for Smalls' banning, I did not contest it either.

I DID however PERSONALLY SEE TO MOMMAKINS' BANNING AS WELL AS HER BANNING WHEN SHE WAS LISATHESTRONG.

So for any of you who think when I ask for someone to be banned it has anything to do with "my hairy ass" PUH-LEASE get over yourselves.

Thanks Musclebrains! I wouldn't have it any other way. Like me or hate me, one thing that one can never say is that I am not upfront, in your face for real, and that I try to keep it as real with myself as I do for others. I regularly expose my human weaknesses not for "cyber sympathy". I do it because I am not ashamed to admit to them and because if it helps just one other person to NOT FEEL ALONE or for that person to learn from my mistakes - it is 100% worth it.

If any member find this irritating or whatever - so be it. I am way passed my teens and twenties where I feel the need to please everyone. Now that I am moving closer to my forties I don't feel the need for validation either.

Getting older sucks on the one hand, but on the other it does have its benefits! :D


PUH-LEASE

you tried to get me banned too.
 
naturally anabolic said:
Do they have psychology funiture outlet mailorder catalogues? i am really interested in getting one of those couches...

Dunno. I prefer to use a dunk tank. Here is one of my patients who gave me the wrong answer when I asked "how does that make you feel?" Obviously, he is in deep feelings after the punishment, I mean cure, of dunking.

Kennydunk2.jpg
 
naturally anabolic said:
I still enjoy the fact that if u fight upstream against the masses, in your own unique way, you get your ass handed to you in the form of a banning. That is of course unless u are platinum.

Now you get it! Platinum keeps us online -- non-Platinum makes this site cost so much to run.
 
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