Milos Sarcev on "genetics in bodybuilding"

[Outtlaw]

Ok, it's not exactly an interview, but here is a different viewpoint on the genetics question. Everyone always says genetics are 90% of this game. But this guy (and apparently Milos) say that "ANYONE can become a pro bodybuilder." I dont know what to think of this article honestly, but it is interesting and should promote some good discussion.

http://www.johnberardi.com/updates/jan312003/lp_jan312003.htm

Whether it's true or not, the article does at least make some valid points.

 

[steelmass]

I’d be comfortable saying that very few people on the face of the earth ever come within 5% of their full genetic potential.

When he says genetic potential he doesn't mean natural genetic potential, which for alot of smaller men is under 200 lbs. He means staying on growth, slin, megadose-AS for years and years to pack as much muscle on as possible.

I agree that anyone could look awesome with proper diet/nutrition/training/AS/slin/growth , however they could not hit PRO status.

 

[Outtlaw]

When he says genetic potential he doesn't mean natural genetic potential, which for alot of smaller men is under 200 lbs. He means staying on growth, slin, megadose-AS for years and years to pack as much muscle on as possible.

I agree that anyone could look awesome with proper diet/nutrition/training/AS/slin/growth , however they could not hit PRO status.

"Pro status" is subjective. You have to win contest to become a pro. There are people that could (and even should) be pros that are not, because they havent won a particular contest.

I think what the article is trying to say is that anyone can get a physique somewhat close to that of a pro. I cant say I agree with this idea though; because there are people who do it all right, and still cant get close to that.

 

[Outtlaw]

When he says genetic potential he doesn't mean natural genetic potential, which for alot of smaller men is under 200 lbs.

What's that you say??? Under 200lbs genetic potential??? Hmm, I wonder where all the people are that say you shouldnt juice until you hit your genetic limit... which is no less than 200lbs (because nearly everyone can get to 200lbs naturally ).

 

[bigtasty25]

i think milos has a point in saying you can be a pro if you do everything in your power...regardless of having great genetics. I dont think you can have poor genetics and become a pro..but average genetics is a totally different ballpark. My genetics are slightly below average but ive busted my ass since i was 18..now 24..i did my first contest at 23, took 5th novice. Last week i did my 2nd show at 24, took the overall in an untesed show...
it all depends on your dedication and motivational level..knowledge...having the right outlets to get what you need (sleep, supps, good gym, advice from advanced guys, cycling your training so you dont burnout, and good nutrition, genetics to an extent i will throw in).

 

[bigtasty25]

watch the dvd "jay cutler, a cut above"..he presents some great advice in there on packing on size...
you can never stop learning in this sport...or being close minded...always keep learning, and youll make better gains and physique improvements as you get older (i.e-ronnie coleman, jay cutler)...gains shouldnt necessarily slow down unless you're already at at advanced stage in my opinion (i.e 270lbs shredded at 5'10)...even a guy thats say 35, 5'9 and 240 shredded can still make awsome physique changes if he kept going and was never satisfied...all depends on your goals...and yes, health is important too...you cant get to that size if you take orals 4 weeks a month, months on end...youll eventually run into problems at a younger age (not saying in all people, but some..yes)
just my .02


P.S.: Dareem charles and his son and wife workout at my gym, all of whom im very friendly with, im half trinidadian myself so i relate with em. Dareem keeps his bodyfat low all the time and it only fluctuates a little, he makes muscle gains slowly, but surely...that right there will keep you in the game a long time for many years and help your health in so many ways...ive learned alot of things from this guy. He's inspiring to watch walk around the gym with that amazing v-taper and peaked biceps, shawn kemp and alot of national level guys go to my gym in south fla also...gotta love watching these monsters do their thang, really does make ya humble and realize how far you still have to go

 

[manny78]

If you have good genetics, you're one step ahead. Of course, someone with avreage genetics, lots of AAS, food, training, diet could turn into something interesting but it would take a lot more efforts.

 

[Outtlaw]

i think milos has a point in saying you can be a pro if you do everything in your power...regardless of having great genetics. I dont think you can have poor genetics and become a pro..but average genetics is a totally different ballpark. My genetics are slightly below average but ive busted my ass since i was 18..now 24..i did my first contest at 23, took 5th novice. Last week i did my 2nd show at 24, took the overall in an untesed show...
it all depends on your dedication and motivational level..knowledge...having the right outlets to get what you need (sleep, supps, good gym, advice from advanced guys, cycling your training so you dont burnout, and good nutrition, genetics to an extent i will throw in).

Just to play devils advocate.... there are people who will say that the reason you succeeded was because of your genetics. Even though you didnt think it, you had the genetics to begin with or else you wouldnt have even got there in the 1st place... no matter how hard you tried.

It's like a no win situation. People who say it's all about genetics cant lose their argument .

 

[bigtasty25]

lol nono..this sport is all about symmetry...size, conditoning...posing..all of which can be worked on. Genetics people say determines how their bodyparts respond to training...so their can be imbalances...but even so...its working on making all the muscle groups proportional to each other that can augment even the most average of genetics (genetics in terms of muscle groups relative to one another).
Trust me...even after 7 years of dedicated training...i placed 5th in the novice at my first show weighing 5'9 150lbs...i dont see how thats good genetics...14.5" arms..;-p

 

[Outtlaw]

lol nono..this sport is all about symmetry...size, conditoning...posing..all of which can be worked on. Genetics people say determines how their bodyparts respond to training...so their can be imbalances...but even so...its working on making all the muscle groups proportional to each other that can augment even the most average of genetics (genetics in terms of muscle groups relative to one another).
Trust me...even after 7 years of dedicated training...i placed 5th in the novice at my first show weighing 5'9 150lbs...i dont see how thats good genetics...14.5" arms..;-p

I wasnt really commenting on you personally with my statement, I was more just making a point.

But they say genetics also determine how much muscle you can carry as well as how much muscle your body will allow you to build. So if your genetics say 15'' arms are the max you can obtain, then try as you may... that's it for you. Unless you find a way to re-write the gene code.

Honestly, I dont believe that genetics are 100% the answer for everything. It's sort of like fate in our lives. I like to believe that I have some sort of controll over my life and my body. Not that somebody up above wrote a script for me that I cannot deviate from. If I can only physically reach my prescripted genetic limit... then whats the point in training to try and break that limit if it can never happen??

 

[Ianhockey91]

lol nono..this sport is all about symmetry...size, conditoning...posing..all of which can be worked on. Genetics people say determines how their bodyparts respond to training...so their can be imbalances...but even so...its working on making all the muscle groups proportional to each other that can augment even the most average of genetics (genetics in terms of muscle groups relative to one another).
Trust me...even after 7 years of dedicated training...i placed 5th in the novice at my first show weighing 5'9 150lbs...i dont see how thats good genetics...14.5" arms..;-p

Wait you've trained for 7 years and ar 5'9 150???

 

[bigtasty25]

Yeah definately..i agree with the things youre saying...it's what gives ya motivation to keep going...by not limiting yourself..thats what it's all about really..never setting limits, only goals and deadlines to achieve them...
For genetics...yeah...if your genetic code is meant for you to only have 15 inch arms, then that's it..but it'll take you many years as a dedicated natural to reach that..not just a few..youll get close in a few...but not THAT close..(this is all without anabolics, slin, gh, igf, etc etc)


dareem tells me he's doing the colorado shawn ray pro in a month...i have a feeling he'll take it..should be an interesting show since theyll have an amatuer level as well for those who want to try n get a NQ (maybe ill take a long shot at it next year if i get time to diet around that time of the year..looks like a fun event)

 

[Tweakle]

Funnist thing about that is almost none of the regs on elite's AAS forum would have a hope in hell of ever winning a natural pro card much less be onstage with Ronnie someday. Does Milos have a supplement line coming out anytime soon by chance?

 

[mlong23]

If you have good genetics, you're one step ahead. Of course, someone with avreage genetics, lots of AAS, food, training, diet could turn into something interesting but it would take a lot more efforts.

Dave Palumbo comes to mind.

 

[mlong23]

Genetic potential is what seperates the pro's from the wanna be's. No one understands what that means though. Genetic potential does not refer to a guy being able to go and be huge naturally and then take some juice and explode.

Genetic potential refers to how a person's receptors respond to steroids. Look at Flex Wheeler when he was younger. He was ripped and thats about it. So many people can grow off of 500mgs of Test a week and be good with that, to where some people (even on this board) talk about how they can't grow with less than 1g of Test a week. Obviously the pros are upping the 500mg level, but at one time they probably put on good size with a milder dosage.

 

[timtim]

if you know your body, your diet, and your training methods that work for you and are advanced and a continual learner (ie, someone who is always training year after year after year and targeting weaknesses and dieting 365 days a year), then genetic potential is attainable naturally. it takes a very, very long time to accomplish this and a ton of dedication.

now add in during all of these years moderate aas with gh, insulin, t3 mixed in, then i do believe that attaining a pro level physique is very possible. BUT, that does not mean these people can step on stage and compete with the real deals. this means you can attain a crazy physique.

i believe its possible. in my case i believe it would be possible no doubt! BUT i find it pointless to use all the gear if its not a priority (i dont compete - but have been training for nearly 18 years). 1 cycle a year is good for me. but i do agree with milos, the physique is possible if you know EVERYTHING about your body and then add in the aas.

 

[bigtasty25]

Wait you've trained for 7 years and ar 5'9 150???

yeah but a shredded dry 150...not the 150lb wifebeater kid you think of when you think of 150lbs...


i was 163 at the show but probably even leaner...with calipers my total of chest,abs,thigh was only 7mm...so it was very low. it was an untested show actually...so if you can believe it...i beat one guy that was 5'7 and 220 and maybe 6% that supposedly (according to him) did 51 npc shows with 16 qualifyers...he was just thick n veiny...just lacked hardness/seperation in his muscles, wide waist, holding a bit of flab in his love handles, not good posing etc...thats how someone alot smaller that did their homework can beat mass monsters(suprisingly for me because i was ready to take 2nd or 3rd place...i try to think of something lower than the best incase i dont win i wont be disappointed..so yeah it was a shock for sure to me).
-for those who say it was genetics...after a year of training, at 17...i was 120lbs and maybe 12% bodyfat....no six pack...maybe a 2-3 pack lol (i just didnt have my nutrition principles down...i did train regularly though after school)

and for the above comments on the genetics thing...totally agreed

 

[booby]

all the steroids in the world wont turn a chiwawa into a pitbull! genetics is number 1! then diet!then work ethic,then gear.

 

[timtim]

i beat one guy that was 5'7 and 220 and maybe 6% that supposedly (according to him)

he was completely lying then because that is near pro status with 6% bf. good for you.

 

[ItalianMuscle27]

It has alot to do with genetics. You need the frame for it for one.. I see guys in the gym that have been training hard for years, but still look the same, and just dont have the foundation to be a Pro BB. I have some genetics, but not what it takes to be a Pro. I am gifted in shoulders and arms and thats it.. Everything else, I need to bust my ass to improve..

Also there is a great deal of science involved. (drugs,diet,etc..) Everything has to be perfect..

 

[bigtasty25]

he was completely lying then because that is near pro status with 6% bf. good for you.

naww...he didnt lied about his stats...i was talking to him a bit...he was unproportional too...his arms were a solid 21 inches id say..hard. soft back, hams, legs, etc...with all that maybe he was 6% from the front but from the back maybe 7-8%. I guess the judges were going for a different type of look...a classical look, he looked like a pitbull anyway, wasnt the friendliest guy(not that thatd matter for judging points, just saying..lol.)

 

[steelmass]

What's that you say??? Under 200lbs genetic potential??? Hmm, I wonder where all the people are that say you shouldnt juice until you hit your genetic limit... which is no less than 200lbs (because nearly everyone can get to 200lbs naturally ).

Ya I was talking about competition weight - but ya I know what you mean.

 

[timtim]

naww...he didnt lied about his stats...i was talking to him a bit...he was unproportional too...his arms were a solid 21 inches id say..hard. soft back, hams, legs, etc...with all that maybe he was 6% from the front but from the back maybe 7-8%. I guess the judges were going for a different type of look...a classical look, he looked like a pitbull anyway, wasnt the friendliest guy(not that thatd matter for judging points, just saying..lol.)

you beat him and thats all that counts. its always the low back and hams that come out soft on the heavier guys (from what i've seen). good work for you.

 

[toxicsambo]

If you research the childhood and teenage years of pro bodybuilders, most of them were involved in sports that required speed, agility, and strength of your own bodyweight like track & field, boxing, martial arts, gymnastics. Flex Wheeler was a track runner, thats what got him lean as a kid. So he has an 8 pack at 16, throw in GH, AAS, and T3, he turns PRO. If you have lean muscularity and proprtion as a kid, youre able to try and go pro.

Also, different ethnic backgrounds have different genetic strengths and weaknesses. Black men have high calves that are hard to develop, but have great pec development. Caucasians have great arm development but have lagging back development, and Orientals have great midsection development but are weak in the chest and leg dept.

What ppl forget is, to go pro, you have to be UBER FKN CRAZY and put anything and everything in your body. You have to do what the next guy wouldnt, whether its diet, training, gear, etc. ANd you have to train harder to balance out what your genetics lack.

Milos is just happy to talk. He went up in flames and had 2nd degree burns over 40% of his body, he happy to be alive, of course he's optomistic.

 

[timtim]

He went up in flames and had 2nd degree burns over 40% of his body

no kidding. when?

 

[toxicsambo]

no kidding. when?

Last year on the set of a movie. He was doing a stunt and flammable liquid incinerated him. HIs face was fkd up! I saw a pic of skin falling off, hair missing. it was bad. But he recovered fully.

 

[timtim]

damn, thanks for the info.