meaningful discourse on LOW DOSE DNP

[GoldenDelicious]

ok guys, i have a background in pharmacy, and i have read all sorts of DNP information posted around the boards, including the one presented by macro.

every single 'guide' on how to use the agent has condoned what i see as dangerously high levels of the drug- ie 200mg/day and up

now i understand why people would want to do this. sure, increasing the dose of dnp is certainly going to increase metabolism greatly, and will overcome the body's natural disposition to hold fat and preferentially burn carbs by the simple expedient of burning all the carbs very quickly, leaving the body few options but to burn fat

i have a huge problem with this approach though.

first and foremost, we are pushing the dose towards levels of major toxicity, especially due to accumulation. (potentially fatal)

secondly we are heating the body so much that we are upsetting fluid balance, and electrolytes (potentially fatally).

thirdly we are dropping glycogen stores to such a degree that we affect thyroid hormone levels (not fatal, but a pain in the arse)

fourthly we are increasing the potential for the user to faint, either due to low fluid volume, high peripheral blood vessel dilation, and low blood sugar (potentially fatal)

fifthwe are reducing the users ability to actually function socially- not only from being a hot sweaty pig, but also because of the massive lethargy induced by low blood sugar

what i would like to talk about is the possible use of low doses of DNP, and the impact of such dosing on fat loss, total body carbohydrates, blood sugar, temperature, electrolyte balance, thyroid hormones, and of course, other side effects like cataracts (yes i think this is significant, especally if you wear contact lenses, because there is a huge increase in concentration in the eye when you use contacts)

it is my opinion that a dose in the order of 100mg/day or under for longer periods would still yield significant results, and would do so safely.

my reasoning is that with lower doses, you will have:

lower temperature
therefore lower fuid/electrolyte imbalance
decent blood sugar
therefore less lethargy
therefore normal thyroid function

and of course, it would be much harder to reach toxic levels of the drug, despite longer use

the obvious downside is that along with higher blood sugar levels, we will have less fat burning. i think that using a high/normal GI carbohydrate intake (as opposed to the low GI reccommended around the place) should allow decent fat loss, and because of lower DNP levels, will not be limited by the temperature spikes that we see in high dose DNP usage

i would like some input from the biochem guys on this. cheers.

also, i do not condone the use of DNP. what i hope to achieve with this is to raise awareness that the high doses commonly used are not neccessarily the only way to get results, and reduce the number of dose related side effects and 'incidents' associated with illicit DNP use

 

[Dial_tone]

No argument, although I don't agree that 200mg/day is high unless it's crystalline. For regular I think 400mg/day is high, although i'm partial to 200mg EOD.


For the record I feel proper use of DNP is no more dangerous than insulin.

 

[Maetenloch]

Interesting post GoldenDelicious.

The only data I could find on what the effectiveness of doses of DNP over a long period of time is from an online guide to DNP (Animal's I think). In it there is a translation of a 1939 French journal article on patients who had developed cataracts after taking DNP for long periods of time. They mentioned one 32 y.o. woman who had taken 600mg a day (2 x 300mg pills) over a year and a half in 10 day on and 15 day off cycles. She had lost 42lbs from an initial weight of 191lbs. Another woman (90 kg) took 360mg of DNP a day and lost 22lbs over 3 months and later used it in another 3 month cycle after 4 months. Both women developed cataracts - the first one recovered after stopping use of DNP, the second had surgery which cured her.

A couple of thoughts -

1. The dosages these women were taking arent that far off from the dosages you see recommended nowadays online e.g. 2-5 mg/kg/day. Whether that's comforting or scary depends on whether or not we know what caused their vision problems.
2. Their average weight loss per month was 2.3 and 7.3lbs respectively. These results are good but not fantastic, and not really that far off from what could be achieved with some cardio and a ketogenic diet. Of course we don't know what their diet was like - probably unchanged.
3. With a daily dose of 300mg, the blood concentration will accumulate to a peak of 900mg or 728mg (depending on whether the dose is taken as 1x300mg or 2x150mg). A 100mg daily dose would accumulate to a peak of 300mg or in the bloodstream.

GoldenDelicious, you also mentioned that you thought the ED50 and LD50 for DNP were too close for comfort. I'm curious as to what these numbers actually are.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

dial_tone: without a decent, supervised titration process (ie gradually working your way up) then jumping to 200 is a mistake, imo. like i have said before, i love the slowly, slowly approach

maetenloch: i do not have figures on the ed50 and ld50, because there just isnt enough info out there, and animla model data just isnt enough to make a decent deduction, imo. my assertation that the effective and lethal doses are close is a logical extension of the mechanism of action. ideally, for max fat burning, you want to be using so much energy that you will deplete your carbs, and are burning primarily fat. given that glucose is the only fuel that your neural, cardiac and hepatic tissue will use (for all intents and purposes anyway) then driving your metabolism to this point is a prelude to taking it too far, being unable to produce adequate glucose/atp in that essential tissue, and having a lethal reaction (by straight overdose, not complications due to heat, electrolytes, ketoacidosis, or whatever.)

most of the guides out there advocate a 33/33/33 fat/carb/protein diet, with ingestion of fruit as your main carb source to try to prop up your long term glucose levels (fructose, low GI carb)

my thinking is more along the lines of a 20/60/20 fat/protein/carb diet with high glycaemic index carbs, and a lower DNP dose. the fat is largely inconsequential imo, since youre burning so much of it anyway, and the protein intake is high as both a sacrificial amino acid source (for muscle sparing), as well as being a better source of glucose an therefore atp than fat stores ever would be. the ingestion of low amounts of a high GI carb would result in lower total body carb levels, and you would likely run into less carbohydrate ingestion mediated heat issues because of the short duration of high blood carbs, and also, i think there would probably be less impact on thyroid hormones. obviously having a glug of a low GI carb before sleep would be a good idea though.

im just toying with this idea on a few boards, since i live in the tropics and heat issues, and high doses are a problem. furthermore, i read a DNP diary on fitnessgeared that frankly scared the shit out of me. i was expecting the guy to stop posting because he was dead.

low dose plus a keto diet with high GI carbs geared to control fatigue (as an indication of neural ATP production) is interesting to me, just now

 

[Dial_tone]

I believe that info is in a PDF file from the anabolicfitness library. I read that one. 400mg/day for a year.....yeesh. I just did 200mg EOD then 200mg ED for about 2-3 weeks and I had to lay off for a while. I wasn't sweating all day but I needed a normal night's rest.

 

[youlikeadajuice?]

Its wierd that people who are out to achieve perfect health, will sometimes use the most unhealthiest means.

then again, some people just don't care.

Keep fighting the good fight Golden, I'm with ya

 

[GoldenDelicious]

who wants to be perfectly healthy? i just want to get hordes of teen girls throwing their panties at me

 

[macrophage69alpha]

note- if you have read the posts... low dose is what is "reccomended".

though moderate to high dose is oft discussed, as speed of results is often the users primary concern.


the one issue with repeated DNP use and/or extended DNP cycles is the increased incidence of allergic reaction due to DNP buildup in peripheral tissues (mostly in fat). This issue has not and, with current information and mechanistic issues, possibly cannot be adequately addressed....

 

[GoldenDelicious]

while i dont dispute that the incidence of allergic reactions do increase in time, i dont really see how fat distribution would exascerbate or cause allergies. increasing sensitivity with time, sure, but a direct allergic reaction? thats not in line with the basic physiology/immunology i was taught. (note i didnt say wrong...just not in line)

i really need access to medline, honestly, this is bullshit

 

[tokebloke]

I have used 1g of dnp a day twice and am perfectly fine. I run 400-600mg now because 1g is too hot, but I think some people are just too cautious. 200mg isn't a high dose at all, I would call it a minimum effective dose. Obviously if you never used it before start low, due to possible reactions, bur scaring people into think they will die from 600mg a day is bullshit. Lets talk facts, not mommy type bullshit.

 

[tokebloke]

BTW- Don't use 1g a day, I DO NOT recomend that, stupid mistake on my part. I do feel 600mg a day is great if you can handle the heat.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

thanks for the input, we have all seen the case of the guy dying on his third 400mg dose, and id rather not turn this discussion towards that because before long, someone will post a 300 page article here and just kill the thread

talk about a dose that wont make the thyroid shit itself, will not excessively overheat, will not promote excessive lethargy etc

cheers

 

[satchboogie]

bump for words on 200mg eod.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

dont do eod dosing on agents like this. split into as many doses as possible

50mg 2x a day would be way way safer than 200mg every 2 days

 

[OXANDRIN]

DNP doesn't habituate to the body therefore its keeps building up.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

thanks for the input, we have all seen the case of the guy dying on his third 400mg dose, and id rather not turn this discussion towards that because before long, someone will post a 300 page article here and just kill the thread

talk about a dose that wont make the thyroid shit itself, will not excessively overheat, will not promote excessive lethargy etc

cheers

this is innaccurate. the individual (eric perrin) was taking in excess of a gram of CRYSTAL DNP (DNP SALT which has a much more rapid uptake and higher bioavailability), combined with a host of other drugs including X.

200mg per day will not cause overheating or lethargy in most individuals

 

[Dial_tone]

this is innaccurate. the individual (eric perrin) was taking in excess of a gram of CRYSTAL DNP (DNP SALT which has a much more rapid uptake and higher bioavailability), combined with a host of other drugs including X.

200mg per day will not cause overheating or lethargy in most individuals

Precisely. I believe Johnny Perry had DNP & cocaine, among other things, in his system when he died. That's just irresponsible.

 

[MrRTTB]

what would one expect if using a low dose DNp while cutting? I'm dropping 1lb of fat per week without it, what can one expect with it

 

[OXANDRIN]

andy used to say if you took a teaspoon of baking soda and mixed it with your powder dnp it would = crystal dnp.......how true it that?

 

[Lao Tzu]

Precisely. I believe Johnny Perry had DNP & cocaine, among other things, in his system when he died. That's just irresponsible.

thats what killed WSM johnny perry, using DNP, coke and a bunch of other drugs?

 

[Dial_tone]

thats what killed WSM johnny perry, using DNP, coke and a bunch of other drugs?

He died from a cocaine overdose, but the DNP, juice, oxy and GHB probably weren't helping matters much.

 

[satchboogie]

a big problem is that most dnp sources are only making the 200mg caps making it very difficult to splilt into smaller doses.

not so sure about opening the cap and swallowing the powder 'bare'.

 

[Biter]

andy used to say if you took a teaspoon of baking soda and mixed it with your powder dnp it would = crystal dnp.......how true it that?

Ox - I tried that - didn't really work out too well. I felt no difference.

 

[posthuman]

other side effects like cataracts (yes i think this is significant, especally if you wear contact lenses, because there is a huge increase in concentration in the eye when you use contacts)

GD,why do contacts increase the concentration in the eyes?

 

[buckwheat1]

I think running smaller doses over a longer period of time has its merits.

I consider 200mg/day a small dose. At this level, I rarely get into issues with getting really hot. I can feel an increased warmth so I dress cooler. Use small fan in my office sometimes and try not to get into heated discussion. When this happens my adrenanline gets going and I start getting hot.

At this dose, lethargy is minor. Workouts are almost 100%. It is also easier to stay hydrated and it is more likely that the anti-oxidants won't be overwhelmed.

I will bump to 400mg/day for a day or two on the weekend. But I will also skip days if I am going out or something.

When I did my first cycle, I ran at 400mg/day and 600mg/day. At these doses, your body cannot fuel itself fast enough from fat stores alone, so it goes after glycogen stores. When this happens you feel flat, tired and weak.

At the lower dosages, your glycogen stores are not effected as much. Of course the fat loss is not as fast, but with low dose you run it longer.

For me, this seems to work out best. I don't think that I will use DNP over 400mg/day again. More comfortable to run the lower doses longer.

P.S. I run 12.5mg T3 2x per day

 

[halfaclue]

I'm with satch on getting the dosage of 200mg in a pill...not sure what would happen if I opened the pill but I have heard of people having reactions to the powder hitting their throats. I'm on day 7....day 5 at 400mg...body weight lost so far is 6lbs. I plan on trying for another week at the same dosage but I am getting agitated with the night sweats so we shall see.

 

[OXANDRIN]

I'm on day 10 of 200mg......weight is down about 10lbs (keep in mind 300mg of deca and M1T pre-workout = 4 days a week)

going to do 400mg for the next 2 days then back to 200mg for the remaining 8

in the end 20 days

 

[GoldenDelicious]

this is innaccurate. the individual (eric perrin) was taking in excess of a gram of CRYSTAL DNP (DNP SALT which has a much more rapid uptake and higher bioavailability), combined with a host of other drugs including X.

200mg per day will not cause overheating or lethargy in most individuals

see i knew this would happen. the article i read said specifically 400, 3 doses.

anyway there was a lady who died on 100 or so, so can we please stop arguaing about lethal doses. lets talk LOW DOSE and how to optimise

 

[GoldenDelicious]

andy used to say if you took a teaspoon of baking soda and mixed it with your powder dnp it would = crystal dnp.......how true it that?

no. dnp in aqueous solution plus sodium bicarb would make the sodium salt that was used in the 30s

 

[GoldenDelicious]

GD,why do contacts increase the concentration in the eyes?

lots of drugs are found in eye secretions (tears). normally though, there is a very very thin layer of tears over the pupil, and so only a little bit gets into the eye itself. with contacts, you get a much much higher concentration in the fluid over the pupil (10x higher) and so more will seep into the aqueous humour inside the eye itself

thats the same reason you should never wear contacts when you use medicated eyedrops

macro/dial_tone: i think we are talking about different people.

anyway it doesnt matter what we call high and low dose, for all intents and purposes a low dose is one that doesnt manifest in those severe side effects which are an extension of DNPs action

i dont know about the above theory that low dose DNP goes after your glycogen less.....doesnt make sense. the body burns carbs preferentially, with or without dnp. the lesser lethargy is likely because you have a higher overall metabolism, but your carb levels arent as depleted (or have time to be replenished by diet ... same thing in essence)

 

[LeanforLife]

I would love to hear some more low dose, longer cycle results as I will be doing this soon.

 

[Riker29]

DNP is serious stuff.

Its a shame that there is SO much folklore, misinformation, and outright bullshit info out there about it.

Even in this thread,half of what has been said is NOT correct.

Jeez, no one, NO one should even say a WORD about DNP doses without explicitly stating whether they are speaking of powder or crystal. If you dont know WHY, then you have no business stating, or TRYING to state, any facts about it.

One of the greatest dangers regarding DNP is all of the armchair experts who don't know anything, who simply quote what they have read out of context.

Now anyone with half a brain, who takes some time, and uses some intelligence, can find a LOT of info in the archives regarding low-dose DNP runs that people have done. There are many good examples of guys doing 3, 4 week runs of 200 mgs a day of powder.

 

[tokebloke]

Since it is a bitch to accuratley dose your own caps, could you mix dnp with a solvent and then inject your dose into a gelcap for consumtion? If you could what kind of solvent would you use? I would feel better doing it this way since I will bet my left leg that the other caps I made were not all 200mg even.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

DNP is serious stuff.

Its a shame that there is SO much folklore, misinformation, and outright bullshit info out there about it.

Even in this thread,half of what has been said is NOT correct.

Jeez, no one, NO one should even say a WORD about DNP doses without explicitly stating whether they are speaking of powder or crystal. If you dont know WHY, then you have no business stating, or TRYING to state, any facts about it.

One of the greatest dangers regarding DNP is all of the armchair experts who don't know anything, who simply quote what they have read out of context.

Now anyone with half a brain, who takes some time, and uses some intelligence, can find a LOT of info in the archives regarding low-dose DNP runs that people have done. There are many good examples of guys doing 3, 4 week runs of 200 mgs a day of powder.

i agree with your forst two comments, but i am vaguely offended by the latter part of your post, particularly your assertation that there is a massive difference between crystallised and powdered dnp.

when i first heard about DNP, i read about this mystical crystal form etc etc and i thought that there was something there in the dissolution, maybe the wetting, i dont know, SOMETHING to make it considerably different from the powdered form.

i have, however, come to the conclusion that the difference is totally blown out of proportion. at the end of the day, it is the mass of dnp that counts. whether it is crystallised or powdered will ahve a minimal overall difference, UNLESS you are so near the threshold of toxicity or really severe dose related effects that the spike in a single dose actually creates a significant impact.

i took a look at the form of DNP used in the 30's. this was the sodium salt. this would likely have had the best solubility, and hence, the fastest absorption. this stuff was absorbed almost completely in about an hour after ingestion.

then i thought about how easily wetted dnp is, whether it is crystal or powdered, and you know what....its quite similar. i think that these two forms would result in pretty much the same absorption profile. i think the accepted sifference between them is a load of bull.

my reasoning is thus: DNP is quite soluble in aqueous solvents. it is easily wetted. this stuff shouldnt really clump too much at all. its going to get into solution, then absorbed, without a whole lot of trouble. then i thought, maybe since DNP is a weak acid, then the time difference between the two forms when it came to dissolution might be a contributing factor...but that doesnt really make a lot of sense. in the stomach, its going to stay protonated. then when it hits the duodenum or jujunum, THEN we might see deprotonation and a subsequent rise in absorption. but the thing is, by that time, DNP of either form will probably be in solution already, and so protonation/deprotonation will happen to the same degree, as will subsequent absorption.

so, bottom line is, low(er) dose dnp cycles shouldnt have problems with the crystal/powder forms, EVEN if it was a viable concept (which i dont really think it is) because we are not near any dangerous threshold in the dnp dose/effect profile.

i mean, we could even consider that doctor in 1986 who was injecting his patients with DNP- this constitues the fastest absorption of all (since there isnt even time taken for digestion- that stuff is in immediately) and there were no deaths from 10000 patients, AND i figure he was using higher doses than we are talking about

anyway what i was really hoping for was a decent chat about the differences in fat, carb, and protein metabolism short and long term in a hig vs low dose DNP cycle, to work out what the ideal diet would probably be on a long term low dose DNP regime. speculatively of course.

cheers

 

[macrophage69alpha]

i have, however, come to the conclusion that the difference is totally blown out of proportion. at the end of the day, it is the mass of dnp that counts. whether it is crystallised or powdered will ahve a minimal overall difference, UNLESS you are so near the threshold of toxicity or really severe dose related effects that the spike in a single dose actually creates a significant impact.

try them and then see if you feel the same. pharmacokinetics are very different between crystal and annhydrous, the addition of sodium makes it more ampiphilic in character (DNP is lipophilic). though there is no direct research between these two compounds

 

[tokebloke]

Since it is a bitch to accuratley dose your own caps, could you mix dnp with a solvent and then inject your dose into a gelcap for consumtion? If you could what kind of solvent would you use? I would feel better doing it this way since I will bet my left leg that the other caps I made were not all 200mg even.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

try them and then see if you feel the same. pharmacokinetics are very different between crystal and annhydrous, the addition of sodium makes it more ampiphilic in character (DNP is lipophilic). though there is no direct research between these two compounds

do me a favour and enlighten me on what you define as crystal and powdered

i found a couple of 'guides' and both said that it was a question of mere hydration, and particle size

if i assumed wrongly because of these two guides then my mistake. frikin internet lala land gives me the shits sometimes. a bit of comparitive pharmacokinetics, if you will

cheers

 

[macrophage69alpha]

crystal is sodium bound and slightly different compound (it is not wetted)
2-Amino-4,6-dinitrophenol sodium salt also known as picramic acid

"regular" is just 2,4 dinitrophenol

IMHO "crystal dnp" is an relatively unknown and unsafe compound

 

[Riker29]

.... a bit of comparitive pharmacokinetics, if you will

cheers

I know you mean well, but thats part of the problem.

Do some searches, some research, on guys' experiences who, in the real world, have DONE both types. Then compare. That's the true test.

I know its interesting to review from a chemistry and purely technical standpoint how things "should" work, but the real test is the real world.

The problem with making this all hypothetical is that it's dangerous.

We have people here (and no, I will NOT mention names) who a few years back did a lot of "theorizing" based on their .... uh ..... "knowledge" about chemistry ......... and therefore they were giving out a lot of DNP advice to people. And a bunch of people almost ended up in the Hospital (and some actually did). There was a lot of speculating going on, and it SOUNDED great, but it was theory. All theory. A bunch of weekend chemists and wanna Chem majors who were all doing a lot of intellectual jerking off. (One of these guys was later made a Mod. LOL)

And no, again, I am not mentioning names. I won't let this turn into a pissing contest. Go to Nelson's board for that.

The bootom line is that you can discuss the pharmacokinetics all you want. And that is fun, and interesting, and you can learn a lot., But the bottom line is what really happens in the real world with real guys and real cycles.

Why not study THAT instead. THAT is what will give you real useable info, that use can use to design your own cycles and approaches.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

crystal is sodium bound and slightly different compound (it is not wetted)
2-Amino-4,6-dinitrophenol sodium salt also known as picramic acid

"regular" is just 2,4 dinitrophenol

IMHO "crystal dnp" is an relatively unknown and unsafe compound

right, so youre saying that 'crystal' dnp is the sodium salt, while 'powdered' dnp is the dried out parent molecule (hydrogen atom where the sodium would be in the case of the 'crystal' version)

please clarify. i hate talking underground. i still cant work out what a freaking snowcone is meant to have in it. all these drug dealers should form a union or something, and get their shit together

 

[GoldenDelicious]

I know you mean well, but thats part of the problem.

Do some searches, some research, on guys' experiences who, in the real world, have DONE both types. Then compare. That's the true test.

I know its interesting to review from a chemistry and purely technical standpoint how things "should" work, but the real test is the real world.

The problem with making this all hypothetical is that it's dangerous.

We have people here (and no, I will NOT mention names) who a few years back did a lot of "theorizing" based on their .... uh ..... "knowledge" about chemistry ......... and therefore they were giving out a lot of DNP advice to people. And a bunch of people almost ended up in the Hospital (and some actually did). There was a lot of speculating going on, and it SOUNDED great, but it was theory. All theory. A bunch of weekend chemists and wanna Chem majors who were all doing a lot of intellectual jerking off. (One of these guys was later made a Mod. LOL)

And no, again, I am not mentioning names. I won't let this turn into a pissing contest. Go to Nelson's board for that.

The bootom line is that you can discuss the pharmacokinetics all you want. And that is fun, and interesting, and you can learn a lot., But the bottom line is what really happens in the real world with real guys and real cycles.

Why not study THAT instead. THAT is what will give you real useable info, that use can use to design your own cycles and approaches.

i can see that you also mean well, but you are helping to maintain the current state of ignorance about this drug, imo. you should have seen that through my advocation of low dose DNP that my intent is to reduce the risk associated with this drug, through a meaningful discourse on dose and various metabolic states induced by dietary modification. any 'intellectual jerking off' i do is likely to result in reduced harm, as opposed to the people you are talking about who pushed the envelope on dosing.

as far as i know, there has never been someone who actually knows what they are talking about examining and discussing the pharmacokinetics of this drug. i have seen a bunch of engineers thinking that the human body is a bomb calorimeter though, and i think that is where the trouble began. when i asked for comparitive pharmacokinetics from macrophage earlier, dont think i was for a second going to accept his info at his word- i was actually looking for a lead and hopefully will get to the bottom of this 'crystal'/'powder' thing. (sorry macro not meaning to belittle you mate)

not to blow my own trumpet but i think i am very well placed to assess the issues that come up with high and low dnp use of whatever duration, although from the turn this thread has taken on various boards, that bullshit high dose inferno cycle just isnt going to go away anytime soon in favour of low dosing. (cant believe im talking about dosing an illegal drug, but anyway, im professionally interested)

cheers

 

[Riker29]

as opposed to the people you are talking about who pushed the envelope on dosing.

cheers

You misread. I was not refrring to people recommending doses.

Look ..... stop ........ read what I wrote. I have given you a lot of hints in what to search for.

There are many examples of people doing what you are asking about.

Many of those who did it, left a while ago.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

yes i know riker, but i wanted to chat about it

im curious though...you were talking about fonz, yes?

 

[Riker29]

yes i know riker, but i wanted to chat about it

Why chat? Search, read, learn. Many examples.

im curious though...you were talking about fonz, yes?

NO. I was NOT talking about Fonz.

And just so the multiple-language negations dont confuse anyone .....

I like Fonz and think they guy is smarter than 98% of the people on these boards.

I was NOT referring to Fonz when I said that bad DNP advice was given out.

'nuf said.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

lol

no plat searchy

 

[halfaclue]

I must start with the typical TV advertisment...results may varry. This is the most progress I have ever had or seen on DNP. Day 1-2 was 200mg and then 400mg everyday since. Monday (yesterday) was day 9 total and day 7 at 400mg. I lost 9lbs and who knows how much more when the bloat goes away. Normally I lose 4-5 lbs a week tops on this cycle dosage and after 2 weeks and a mild diuretic (dandelion root) at the end I total over 10lbs for the 2 weeks. I think I may crush that. The best thing is my workouts have not been bad (considering). Teh sleep is still sucking pretty bad but the ehpadrine is keeping me going during the day and at the gym. I'll keep you guys updated next week when i way myself again.

 

[onebigab]

thanks for the input, we have all seen the case of the guy dying on his third 400mg dose, and id rather not turn this discussion towards that because before long, someone will post a 300 page article here and just kill the thread

talk about a dose that wont make the thyroid shit itself, will not excessively overheat, will not promote excessive lethargy etc

cheers

Is this possible because different amounts work for different people.

 

[OXANDRIN]

Damn........ten days @ 200mg per day and no signs of excessive hunger or cravings (10lbs lost) bumped it to 400mg per day on day 13 or day 3 @ 400mg and i'm craving sugar, has some sugar free chocolate candies, and about 1/2 cup sugar free icecream....then went for a lb of strawberries = Sweating now. Today i not only went over my goal of 2000 calories but i am over 3000 calories for the 1st time since dnp started. don't know why but whenever i get too high in the dosage i become hungry and start to crave sugar which makes me sweat and want to quit dnp

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Is this possible because different amounts work for different people.

sure its possible, but the dose itself may vary

anyway im burnt out (no pun intended) on talking about dnp on the boards. the "400mg is safe! its only 10 days!" crowd has really busted my balls, and im sick of it.

cheers

 

[junk]

Damn........ten days @ 200mg per day and no signs of excessive hunger or cravings (10lbs lost) bumped it to 400mg per day on day 13 or day 3 @ 400mg and i'm craving sugar, has some sugar free chocolate candies, and about 1/2 cup sugar free icecream....then went for a lb of strawberries = Sweating now. Today i not only went over my goal of 2000 calories but i am over 3000 calories for the 1st time since dnp started. don't know why but whenever i get too high in the dosage i become hungry and start to crave sugar which makes me sweat and want to quit dnp

That sucks bro!
I'm not sure that the craving doesn't exist @200mg. I think since dnp builds up it would have come anyway just maybe later. When I used DNP the cravings were really getting to me if I didn't take ECA. What is your diet when on dnp ? (crabs/pro/fat) ?

 

[junk]

GD don't you think that the most important aspect of DNP even when using 50mg ED is that it build up in the system and appears to never really leave your body!! ?? I mean there's enough realworld evidance to suggest that it lies somewhere in your body.. Hence the cases where people got an allergic reaction even on lower doses on their second or third dnp cycles.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

that makes no sense junk. if its in there already, why would the newly ingested dnp elicit an immune response in the form of an allergy? anyway the drug is excreted via a few routes- skin, sweat, urine...its going to come out for sure

 

[OXANDRIN]

What is your diet when on dnp ? (crabs/pro/fat) ?

My diet has been solid!

on training days i have 2200 cals.... carbs from lean body breakfast mrp, black beans, and lactaid milk

on non-training days......1900 calories....almost no carbs. 3 tablespoons of flax, 1 tablespoon of fish oils....only carbs are from sugar free gum and fat free cheese.

 

[Fonz]

Why chat? Search, read, learn. Many examples.



NO. I was NOT talking about Fonz.

And just so the multiple-language negations dont confuse anyone .....

I like Fonz and think they guy is smarter than 98% of the people on these boards.

I was NOT referring to Fonz when I said that bad DNP advice was given out.

'nuf said.

Riker, don't bother with this guy anymore. Between Macro, DNP Guru, Andy 13, and myself we've covered every conceivable topic on DNP you could possible ever think off, and then some.

He wants the collated info? Well then....go plat.... or else he can go to trashology and ask his friends there.....So go... "SomeBLoke". err.......Goldendelicious.

Anyways, back to writing my book and studying. It was amusing watching GD trying to teach Macro the difference between normal powdered DNP and crystal DNP. I really had a good laugh.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

...its going to come out for sure

no... its not.

DNP is readily stored in tissues, particularly adipose tissue.


many users note elevated body temp for MONTHS after discontinuation as DNP is slowly released from these tissues.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

righto then fonz, would you like to clear up the precise difference between 'crystal' and 'powder' DNP once and for all? notice how no one has come forth with info on what each of them actually are? could that possibly be because no one knows for sure what the hell is in this illegal formulation?

anyway, get back to your 'book'. ill buy it as long as there is a chapter on your stint in the SAS, some pictures from your modelling phase, a picture of your very first implant gun, a photo of your skiing certificate, and maybe some trophies from your ice hockey days. what the hell, throw in a quick scan of an academic transcript from your pharmacology course, your nuclear physics course, and some sort of english certification from oxford.

most importantly, remember: pop-up books are NOT a good format for a book on bodybuilding

 

[GoldenDelicious]

no... its not.

DNP is readily stored in tissues, particularly adipose tissue.


many users note elevated body temp for MONTHS after discontinuation as DNP is slowly released from these tissues.

this statement is rather at odds with the quoted drug half life of 36 hours. i have not seen any data or reports to indicate that long term temperature elevation occurs with use.

though the drug may be present for long periods of time due to fat distribution, it is highly unlikely that there will be enough to exert any noticeable increase in temperature via continued uncoupling. i could chat about it more, but really, the idea is...inconsistent to say the least. non sensical, really.

 

[buckwheat1]

Damn........ten days @ 200mg per day and no signs of excessive hunger or cravings (10lbs lost) bumped it to 400mg per day on day 13 or day 3 @ 400mg and i'm craving sugar, has some sugar free chocolate candies, and about 1/2 cup sugar free icecream....then went for a lb of strawberries = Sweating now. Today i not only went over my goal of 2000 calories but i am over 3000 calories for the 1st time since dnp started. don't know why but whenever i get too high in the dosage i become hungry and start to crave sugar which makes me sweat and want to quit dnp

I am running 200mg/day. I take mine in the early evening. At this dose, the side effects are almost nill. Doesn't really affect my sleep , although I have to sleep with the covers off. I don't sweat profusely. I don't get cravings. And my workouts have been close to 100%.

When you increase the dose to 400 or more. The energy requirements increase. Just like when you go from walking to running, your energy needs shifts from fat burning to glycogen reserves. I think when glycogen reserves are depleted, the lethargy and cravings start. Also your work outs suffer because your muscles have no energy.

Thats why I think this thread has merit. Cut the dose and run it longer. I will only go to 400mg/day on the weekend if I don't have plans. I think you can get away with increasing the dose every once in awhile as long as you go back to the lower dose after a day or two. Otherwise, you get depleted.

 

[OXANDRIN]

Thats why I think this thread has merit. Cut the dose and run it longer. I will only go to 400mg/day on the weekend if I don't have plans. I think you can get away with increasing the dose every once in awhile as long as you go back to the lower dose after a day or two. Otherwise, you get depleted.

I need a break.......breathing very heavy, bloated, water retained, and today i ate a large box of raisin bran.....between taking shitz every hour and sweating I ned to take some time off of dnp

 

[macrophage69alpha]

righto then fonz, would you like to clear up the precise difference between 'crystal' and 'powder' DNP once and for all? notice how no one has come forth with info on what each of them actually are? could that possibly be because no one knows for sure what the hell is in this illegal formulation?

that was actually clarified for you several posts up.

though here it is again

2,4 dinitrophenol= powder

picramic acid (or 2-Amino-4,6-dinitrophenol sodium salt)= crystal

these are similar but different compounds with different pharmacokinetics. Also very likely to have different tissue affinities.

 

[Dial_tone]

I need a break.......breathing very heavy, bloated, water retained, and today i ate a large box of raisin bran.....between taking shitz every hour and sweating I ned to take some time off of dnp

I'm on a 10 day break myself and lovin life.

 

[halfaclue]

Here it is...Day 1 and 2 200mg DNP..day 3-15 400mgs. Total weight lost...18lbs...most I have ever lost. 15 days and 18 lbs..I'll post again in a few days as I am still holding water and taking dandelion root to get normal.

 

[LeeJunFan]

what would be the effects of running DNP with CKD?
Anyone tried this?

 

[satchboogie]

i ran 200mg eod but didnt feel much.
so bumped to 200mg a day and that seems to be the ideal range.

the most important thing for me is to maintain strength.. which was IMPOSSIBLE on 400mg+ per day.

gonna run it for 4 weeks..
will keep u updated.

 

[halfaclue]

Here it is...Day 1 and 2 200mg DNP..day 3-15 400mgs. Total weight lost...18lbs...most I have ever lost. 15 days and 18 lbs..I'll post again in a few days as I am still holding water and taking dandelion root to get normal.

One week later total weight lost 19lbs!

 

[LeeJunFan]

^ that weight loss is amazing! ^
I will be running DNP in a couple of weeks, I'd be happy with half the results you have got!!

 

[halfaclue]

The thing i worry about is getting more nd not getting the same effects because that was by far the best results I have ever gotten.

 

[georgie24]

good argument! dnp is calling for me now.....

 

[TraxZBT]

God damnit... Ever since my 5th dnp cycle.. i've been getting allergic reactions to it. Been using loratadine, benadryl, quericitan (sp?) and i'm still getting it. I think my DNP days are over for sure

 

[needsize]

My last dnp run I ran 400mg a day for 7 days, then 600mg for the 8th day. I started at about 9%, so was already fairly lean, and lost 1lb a day the whole time I was on it. I was hot but tolerable on 400mg, 600mg I felt like dying, and I didnt lose any faster than at 400mg. I never held any water while on, but rebounded all the lost glycogen when I came off, just as GD said would happen, and went up about 10lbs, and looked way better than before I ran it

 

[newpump]

how can you determine if you are allergic to DNP (ie, what precautions should I take for my first DNP run?)

 

[satchboogie]

what would be the effects of running DNP with CKD?
Anyone tried this?

very interesting..
bump!

 

[Quadsweep]

I was around when Dan Duchaine came up with this. (Rediscovered I should say). He said "The difference between an effective dose and a lethal dose are so small most individuals will not be capable of controlling the dose." If you were to accidentally overdose and the mitochondria process gets out of hand no one can save you, you just burn up. Dan was worried about exposing this and I think maybe he should not have. My question is this. I get down to 3.4% for contests. Why not just diet and use clen? I feel its an easy way out and people just do not like to suffer for very long.

Quad

 

[georgie24]

satch check my ckd thread for reality results, it killer with primo/winny

 

[GoldenDelicious]

wow who bumped this dinosaur?

anyway my opinions on DNP have matured since then. Thanks to satchbooger and his posting of a patent from a dr brychinsky (sp) the minimum lethal dose is between 1000-3000mg of the drug. now as per basic pharmaceutics, the max body level achieved in long term dosing is, from memory, twice the amount ingested within one elimination half life of a drug. for dnp this is 36 hours, so therefore someone taking 200mg/day will have a max body level of 600mg dnp long term, once they reach the point where intake = elimination.

so, taking 200mg isnt too bad. in fact id say that its near where you want to be taking it. a little less would be fine.

all of my previous thoughts on dnp are fine with one exception- youre going to fuck up your t3 levels one way or another on dnp, whatever dose you take. im not going to go as far as to say you should supplement t3, but to keep cycles nice and short, i would favour a low supplementation of t3 (in the order of about a dose of 50/day) under medical supervision on a 7 or 10 day cycle of dnp, rather than no t3 and a cycle 2 months long.

did that make sense? hope so. i aint reading it lol.

personally i wouldnt mind seeing DNP clinics. kind of like a fat farm, where you check in to a hotel with super airconditioners, cold swimming pools, and a bunch of med personell watching over your fat ugly arse so you dont mess it all up. of course the AMA would totally freak out, so dont worry about it i suppose.

cheers

 

[georgie24]

nice info bro!

what about dnp with ckd..yes or no?

 

[LeeJunFan]

out of all the people who have used DNP, who has capped their own?

 

[Dial_tone]

out of all the people who have used DNP, who has capped their own?

I can't imagine the cost savings justifying the risk. I wouldn't even consider it.

 

[LeeJunFan]

for me it wasn't the cost but it was the only way I could get it, I have accurate scales that go to 0.01g so at the very most I can only be out by 10mg and I will be doing 200mg on average.


p.s. just to completely VERIFY, 200mg = 0.2g?

Thanx!

 

[supreme]

I cap my own because if someone fucks up I pay big time - a great formula for measuring, and capping DNP is in the "best of" archieve by smoking hawk.

GD, I agree with your dosing ideas for low dose DNP (I personally can't tolerate more than 200mg) - I read the patent info by DR. B. what's your take on his very long dosing protocol and his T3 reccomendations of 100mcg/day after DNP stops??

I am considering adding in a low dose DNP 100 -200mg /day in my next cycle to allow me to keep calories up and bodyfat down, what would you consider the longest anyone should use DNP say at 100mg /day???

Thanks,

S