Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
C
Crazy Ivan
Guest
Cheeky Pecker Checker said:
LMAO
Shut your fucking sock.
Matrix Reloaded is Genius!!!
- Thread starter 2Thick
- Start date
LMAO
Shut your fucking sock.
Cheeky Pecker Checker
New member
Crazy Ivan said:
Sounds like you have an Epson printer.
Good for you, Vanya.
C
Crazy Ivan
Guest
Cheeky Pecker Checker said:
Actually I used to have an Epson , we didn't really connect very well and i switched over to HP just recently. So far so good
Cheeky Pecker Checker
New member
Crazy Ivan said:
You keep on laughing, you naive American Slavic boy.
C
Crazy Ivan
Guest
ROFL
You queer fuckin fuck, can't believe you gave me bad karma. What's the matter, can't take a joke ? Piss off!
You queer fuckin fuck, can't believe you gave me bad karma. What's the matter, can't take a joke ? Piss off!
ok....someone wanna explain how the agent smith thing is working? has he also become an anomaly?
and what about neo's awareness of the sentinels and his lapse into coma? did a part of him remain in the matrix? why is the human form of smith in the matrix? for some reason in the next one neoi has to beat smith, and save everyone, presumably because smith absorbed them all
and is the oracle evil? she did after all create the maric and if she is to be believed make a false prophecy 6 times to lure the one's into the source and destroy zion? why is neo different to them?
keanu;s martial arts looked real slick too
and what about neo's awareness of the sentinels and his lapse into coma? did a part of him remain in the matrix? why is the human form of smith in the matrix? for some reason in the next one neoi has to beat smith, and save everyone, presumably because smith absorbed them all
and is the oracle evil? she did after all create the maric and if she is to be believed make a false prophecy 6 times to lure the one's into the source and destroy zion? why is neo different to them?
keanu;s martial arts looked real slick too
c3bodybuilding
New member
The more I think about it, the more I truly enjoyed this movie. Everyone told me it has no plot, only incredible action. I actually thought it had BOTH.
I loved the scenes with talking, rather than those with just ass kicking. If they tried to make it easier for people to understand, it would ruin the brilliance of it.
I loved the scenes with talking, rather than those with just ass kicking. If they tried to make it easier for people to understand, it would ruin the brilliance of it.
bignate73
New member
danielson said:
just got back from seeing it again...here is my thoughts
agent smith became an anomoly due to his HATE for neo. he went above and beyond an agents job description so to speak. thats my thoughts on him. so he transcended what he was "supposed to do" and rewrote his code as neo is able to manipulate things within the matrix.
neo's awareness of the matrix seems to stem from the possibility of it being another control measure within the matrix. one for people who wont accept the matrix as it is. i think.
here is what i have a feeling happened. neo's predecessors were forced to choose between saving trinity or zion. they always chose zion. greater good type thing. this time the architect knew that neo would choose trinity because the neo "anomoly" learned to LOVE. agent smith became an anomoly because he learned to HATE. the systemic anomoly that is spreading problems throughout the matrix is the fact that control programs are having human emotions evoked into them. love and hate. and since this has happened, the programmed rise and fall of humanity which has been looping is set to stop due to a falter in the program loop. this threatens the matrix and its control because all of the people would probably wake up. im thinking that there is minimal security in the "real world" to keep people from just walking out of their goo and pods and starting life on earth again. basically just a program that keeps looping to keep them complacent. a computer that wont die due to a continual power source of people, but downsized its security forces long ago due to the perceived perfect control of the matrix. hundreds of years had passed since humanity was enslaved, so why keep tons of sentinals for no perceived threat?
these are just my thoughts....based on how my overactive imagination works...hehehe. could be something in there....i dont know.
bunnymt
New member
bignate73 said:
There is something there... good thoughts.
I have to go and see it again, then I will be more comfortable stating my views.
This movie is more about understanding: understanding what the architect said, understanding what the oracle said, etc. It is about putting all of the pieces of the puzzle together to formulate a sensible and accurate plot. What a great movie!!
bignate73 said:
the hate for neo fits....but none of the other prgrams were able to re-write themselves including the oracle and architect and are thus 'vunerable' to smith which is why they leave the playground. smith said neo and him are linked....i was thinking in a yin-yang, good-evil or love-hate sort of way, i think they both have very powerful ways of manipulating the matrix, though i cant understand how he was able to dowload himself into a human "(smith)
also why let them get to the stage where they cn build a zion, or make defences? is it merely a way of assembling the 1% in one place so they can make a cull? no-one has explained how the humans got to bild all their tech...
the architect said neo was different in that he had his attachment for humanity mixed with love. i think past 'ones' went with zions destruction as it meant a new zion could be borne, because as you said the greater good. he knew neo would try and save her but he tries to dissuade him at great length....maybe he knew neo would be able to exert machine control outside f the matrix and tried to stop him
damn, i think i overanalysed this.....i need time to think it as i sount what i typed will make sense in the morning
Stangfriik
New member
danielson said:
Remember the Architect didn't say the Oracle was the mother. He scoffed when Neo said that so I doubt that she is the Mother.
<Architect> Choice. The program is choice. The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect. It was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus I redesigned it, based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the Matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
<Neo> The Oracle?
<Architect> Please, as I was saying she stumbled upon a solution where by nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice even if they were only aware of the choice at any unconscious level. While this answered function it was obviously fundamentally flawed, because creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ere go, those that refuse the program, while a minority if left unchecked would constitute an escalading probability of disaster.
I still don't know why Neo is in a coma though. Maybe Zion is a closer part of the matrix to the "real world" thus Neo isn't as invincible yet still has his powers. Things that he could do in the first level of the matrix with ease actually hurts him in a way in the levels closer to the "real world". Maybe the closer he gets to "reality" the more "human" he gets both emotionally and physically.
PS. How many movies can create this kind of talk. People bash this movie yet there is a thread at least this long on most message boards. This movie fucking rocked!!!
Each time I see it,it becomes that much better to me...I can't recall the last time I saw a film this smart and challenging,and also as entertaining and visually amazing.It is a true work of art IMO.
D
DcupSheepNipples
Guest
2Thick said:
Albino Power! Da man aint gonna bring us down!
F
Frackal
Guest
I dont know if this has been mentioned but I wonder if the Zion world created on top of the matrix world to be a control for those that would not accept the initial matrix; allowing them to express themselves outside the first matrix while tricking them and preventing them from fully awakening ... because ironically, they were in the same position as those in the regular matrix, asleep but convinced that they were experiencing reality.
the matrix has an anomaly in it that is the one, due to the fact that its an imperfect world and that anomaly wakes up the others everytime zion is destroyed
so then wouldnt the 'outside'world also be imperfect given its based on the same rules and interactions of the matrix? is that how neo has powers outside the matrix. maybe 'they' put him in a coma once he realised it
maybe neo is like a program...i dont see any person willingly rebuilding zion in a cycle again and again unless they were programmed to, and he realised his programming outside of the matrix
did anyone check the council out btw? there seemed to be a lot of women....was the ratio 16 women to 7 men?
so then wouldnt the 'outside'world also be imperfect given its based on the same rules and interactions of the matrix? is that how neo has powers outside the matrix. maybe 'they' put him in a coma once he realised it
maybe neo is like a program...i dont see any person willingly rebuilding zion in a cycle again and again unless they were programmed to, and he realised his programming outside of the matrix
did anyone check the council out btw? there seemed to be a lot of women....was the ratio 16 women to 7 men?
2Thick said:
assuming all the residents of zion were natural and not hatched. i dodnt see any other old people so thats why i thought that
the more i think about it the more unsure i get that zion is another simulation....why can;t neo percieve it as a sim? why can't they bend reality within the matrix? why would the machines allow the residents of zion to create such force to the extent they have to drill in?
i think zion is either a sim created by someone other than machines, or neo going to the source/architect has resulted in the ability of some of his anomalous code to be downloaded into him the same way smith downloaded a copy of himself into a human, thats how he was able to stop the machines, by interfacing with them, maybe thats why he went into a coma
Just got back from seeing it for the third time.I must say that each time I see it,it gets that much more enjoyable for me...And you guys that have yet to see it,make sure to stick around past the credits!Revolutions looks to be every bit as good as reloaded.Huge battles all over the place.
I just got back from seeing it a second time. Like the first one, you catch more the 2nd time around. Plus I think it felt like it went a lot faster as I knew what was next. I stayed through the credits this time to watch the Revolutions preview (and damn those credits were endless)....I'll agree with Huck and say it looks pretty nifty. 
mah baby!!!
Lift Chief
New member
Frackal said:
BINGO!
Just what i thought after seeing it... can anyone say- double layered matrix?!
It may be more than double.
Lift Chief
New member
HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex said:
Hmm... perhaps.
gymrat
New member
I just read the whole thread, and I don't think anyone actually explained what the Architect was saying.
3 pages of this thread were dedicated to grammar lol.
I just bought the DVD, and LOVED it. I need to watch it a few more times before my simple mind can fully understand it.
3 pages of this thread were dedicated to grammar lol.
I just bought the DVD, and LOVED it. I need to watch it a few more times before my simple mind can fully understand it.
plornive
New member
I don't know if anyone cares, but here is something interesting:Frackal said:
An Artificial Neural Network (ANN) is a network of actual or virtual models of the neurons that make up the human brain. A Neuron fires a charge if it is excited by other neurons to it's particular threshold. If it fires, it sends a charge through it's synapse to all of the other neurons it's synapse is attached to.
The Matrix could be considered an ANN. The input level of the network a complicated matrix of inputs from humans. The output level is also a complicated matrix of outputs to humans.
Each major separable layer of an ANN should have synapses with non linear or discrete threshold functions. If there are no non-linear/discrete functions, then the layer probably adds nothing to the ANN. Each layer applies a non-linearity factor to a large portion of, or perhaps the entire ANN.
There is a reason to create major separable layers. The ANN is segmented in areas of distinct processing. Within each layer, one can imagine that in an infinitely small area, we approah linear, and that the area expands, it adds non-linearity.
Now, imagine that all of your inputs are attached to only one separable layer. The things you perceive from the outputs of the ANN are probably mostly quite local to the corresponding inputs. The only way to affect other separable layers is through the neurons and synapses between your separable layers and the others.
We move from our mostly linear world, to a much more complicated one. The dream would be to intelligently manipulate the desired separable layer using our inputs. The dissapointing realization is that perhaps it is impossible, given the connections we have. Not just infeasible, but impossible. Perhaps it is necessary to go through many layers to finally end up at a parallel network, to which we can send binary data. Perhaps the layer we want to affect can affect us, but not vice versa.
Imagine that you are your consciousness. Then, the physical world is the matrix. Perhaps we cannot really affect the physical world. Perhaps Neo cannot affect the very upper layer of the network.
The take home point is that travelling to a different layer of the network adds an entirely new factor to the function of one's perceived world. Not only that, but one can only indirectly affect that different layer, if at all. This is analogous to the idea that it *might* be impossible or difficult for us to actually affect the physical world with our consciousness.
After all, why would someone design our network so that humans could affect the administration of the network? The only reason I can think of is that it is impossible to squelsh the unpredictability of humans. But perhaps we can't affect the administration of the network. This is reminiscent of the idea of monotheism. But perhaps humans have choice, after all, and are an area among many other layers in an ANN.
Last edited:
What is really cool about these movies is that the represent a distillation of various schools of thought that have evloved over history.
Taosim, --- it is what it is.
Bhuddism --- transcending your fundamental nature and the concept of mayana which states that what we see is created in the mind.
Christianity -- the archtypes of God, Devil, Chirst and fundamental usage of 3 main characters to represent a "trinity" even naming one such.
Scientific schools of practical thought and applciation. *--- Physics, Biochemistry, Programming, Enginering, phylosophy, psychiatry and sociology.
Great flicks indeed.
Taosim, --- it is what it is.
Bhuddism --- transcending your fundamental nature and the concept of mayana which states that what we see is created in the mind.
Christianity -- the archtypes of God, Devil, Chirst and fundamental usage of 3 main characters to represent a "trinity" even naming one such.
Scientific schools of practical thought and applciation. *--- Physics, Biochemistry, Programming, Enginering, phylosophy, psychiatry and sociology.
Great flicks indeed.
<from same place as on revo thread of mine>gymrat said:
Below are several lines of dialogue from the Architect scene, and I will use them to discover what is really going on with Neo and the Architect. These lines aren't sequential; they're just the ones I want to highlight.
ARCHITECT - You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human.
I stand by the idea that the Architect does not lie during this conversation. He tells us quite directly that Neo is a human being. This should put to rest all theories that Neo is a computer program. It's also very important that we establish Neo as a human being, because the end result depends on it.
ARCHITECT - That [response] was quicker than the others.
ARCHITECT - While the others experienced this [attachment] in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.
The translation here is very plain. There have been "others" -- other Neos -- and this one is different. We have already had this difference demonstrated in the Merovingian scene, but it is confirmed here. The Merovingian makes remarks about how Neo is different than his predecessors, and the Merovingian is quite surprised at the superhuman abilities Neo is able to command. (He does not expect that Neo can win the fight against the minions on the staircase.) The fact that this incarnation is different also means that the previous five all chose the right-hand door.
ARCHITECT - I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.
There have been five previous incarnations of Neo. This is similar to the Hindu god Indra being confronted by the fact that there have been countless previous Indras. It means: you are a part of something greater than yourself. There is also a tremendous significance in the fact that the present Neo is the sixth incarnation.
ARCHITECT - [The Mother] stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice.
NEO - Choice. The problem is choice.
How many times was the idea of choice and free will been raised in Reloaded? Quite a few. It comes down to this moment, and both the Architect and Neo state it clearly. This is about choice. Neo's choice -- between the right-hand door or the left-hand door -- is a magnified, superconcentrated version of the choice given to all humans connected to the Matrix. Will you accept the world you're given, or will you follow the serpent? This choice is why Neo and the Architect are shown as competing opposites -- the God and the devil. They are the embodiment of the two choices.
It is extremely difficult to determine what the Architect expects Neo to do. Most analyses of Reloaded differ at this point. My belief is that the Architect is hoping that Neo chooses the left-hand door [3]. (Yes, this is a complete reversal of my position in previous versions of this essay.) In other words, I am saying (1) that the Architect is hoping for something and (2) the thing he is hoping for is that Neo chooses Trinity. There are several key pieces of evidence for this belief. What tips the scales for me is the "parting shot" from the Architect:
ARCHITECT - Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.
Why does the Architect say this? Why does he mention the word "hope"? Why didn't he simply say, "So long, dummy?" I think it is because this is a moment of fulfillment for the Architect. He knows his job is finished, because by choosing the left-hand door Neo is going to destroy the Matrix. I thought perhaps by ending on "weakness" the Architect was classifying Neo's choice as a bad one. Not so. Weakness is a state of non-perfection. Human beings are defined by their imperfections, their weaknesses. So this is a statement of liberation from perfection. Neo is breaking free. He is exiting the Garden.
But the Architect is also saying something much more profound than that. Look very carefully at the sentence. The Architect is saying that Neo is quintessentially human. That is, Neo has truly transcended his boundaries by choosing Trinity. He has genuinely exercised free will. And that leads to the most incredible part of the relationship between the Architect and Neo.
DeepZenPill
New member
People who don't understand the plot are the ones who hate it. I'm appalled that so many "intellectuals" I know disliked it and missed out on much of the complexities hidden in the plot. The movies definitely require close attention to detail and a certain willing suspension of disbelief.
Then again the guy across the aisle from me who yelled and clapped during every scene sure seemed to love the movie.
Then again the guy across the aisle from me who yelled and clapped during every scene sure seemed to love the movie.
