Marijuana or Alcohol?

[Sub-Zero]

Read what you are typing -- you're dishing-out accusations left and right.

Since when did my, Smurphy or Iggy's validation of you become so crucial? You pro-pot guys need to chill out. If only you had a reliable, safe way to relax.... have you considered a nice glass of red wine?

why you gotta bring iggy into this bro?

 

[Sub-Zero]

J Addict Med. 2011 Mar 1;5(1):1-8.
An Evidence Based Review of Acute and Long-Term Effects of Cannabis Use on Executive Cognitive Functions.

Crean RD, Crane NA, Mason BJ.

Committee on the Neurobiology of Addictive Disorders; The Scripps Research Institute; La Jolla, CA, 92037, USA.
Abstract

Cannabis use has been shown to impair cognitive functions on a number of levels-from basic motor coordination to more complex executive function tasks, such as the ability to plan, organize, solve problems, make decisions, remember, and control emotions and behavior. These deficits differ in severity depending on the quantity, recency, age of onset and duration of marijuana use. Understanding how cannabis use impairs executive function is important. Individuals with cannabis-related impairment in executive functions have been found to have trouble learning and applying the skills required for successful recovery, putting them at increased risk for relapse to cannabis use. Here we review the research on the acute, residual, and long-term effects of cannabis use on executive functions, and discuss the implications for treatment.

PMID: 21321675 [PubMed]PMCID: PMC3037578 [Available on 2012/3/1]

give me a physiological or mechanistic explination of this "pot fog". not some "these retards who cant remember anything happen to be pot users" correlational psychology study

ya know, sort of like the numerous studies on brain deterioration with alcohol, as well as the fact that it is proven to be physically addictive, while marijuana isnt...

The Neuropathology of Alcohol-specific Brain Damage, or Does Alcohol Damage the Brain?
"There is still debate as to whether alcohol per se causes brain damage. The main problem has been to identify those lesions caused by alcohol itself and those caused by other common alcohol-related factors, principally thiamin deficiency. Careful selection and classification of alcoholic cases into those with and without these complications, together with detailed quantitative neuropathological analyses, has provided us with useful data. There is brain shrinkage in uncomplicated alcoholics which can largely be accounted for by loss of white matter. Some of this damage appears to be reversible. However, alcohol-related neuronal loss has been documented in specific regions of the cerebral cortex (superior frontal association cortex), hypothalamus (supraoptic and paraventricular nuclei), and cerebellum. The data is conflicting for several regions: the hippocampus, amygdala and locus ceruleus. No change is found in the basal ganglia, nucleus basalis, or serotonergic raphe nuclei. Many of the regions that are normal in uncomplicated alcoholics are damaged in those with the Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome. Dendritic and synaptic changes have been documented in uncomplicated alcoholics and these, together with receptor and transmitter changes, may explain functional changes and cognitive deficits that precede the more severe structural neuronal changes. The pattern of damage appears to be somewhat different and species-specific in animal models of alcohol toxicity. Pathological changes that have been found to correlate with alcohol intake include white matter loss and neuronal loss in the hypothalamus and cerebellum."
HARPER, CLIVE MD, FRCPA 1998 American Association of Neuropathologists, Inc

 

[mrplunkey]

give me a physiological or mechanistic explination of this "pot fog". not some "these retards who cant remember anything happen to be pot users" correlational psychology study

ya know, sort of like the numerous studies on brain deterioration with alcohol, as well as the fact that it is proven to be physically addictive, while marijuana isnt...

The Neuropathology of Alcohol-specific Brain Damage, or Does Alcohol Damage the Brain?
"There is still debate as to whether alcohol per se causes brain damage. The main problem has been to identify those lesions caused by alcohol itself and those caused by other common alcohol-related factors, principally thiamin deficiency. Careful selection and classification of alcoholic cases into those with and without these complications, together with detailed quantitative neuropathological analyses, has provided us with useful data. There is brain shrinkage in uncomplicated alcoholics which can largely be accounted for by loss of white matter. Some of this damage appears to be reversible. However, alcohol-related neuronal loss has been documented in specific regions of the cerebral cortex (superior frontal association cortex), hypothalamus (supraoptic and paraventricular nuclei), and cerebellum. The data is conflicting for several regions: the hippocampus, amygdala and locus ceruleus. No change is found in the basal ganglia, nucleus basalis, or serotonergic raphe nuclei. Many of the regions that are normal in uncomplicated alcoholics are damaged in those with the Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome. Dendritic and synaptic changes have been documented in uncomplicated alcoholics and these, together with receptor and transmitter changes, may explain functional changes and cognitive deficits that precede the more severe structural neuronal changes. The pattern of damage appears to be somewhat different and species-specific in animal models of alcohol toxicity. Pathological changes that have been found to correlate with alcohol intake include white matter loss and neuronal loss in the hypothalamus and cerebellum."
HARPER, CLIVE MD, FRCPA 1998 American Association of Neuropathologists, Inc

1) I'm arguing against pot. I'm not arguing alcohol can't do damage. Did you forget what we were posting about? I had a couple of glasses of wine tonight, and I still remember the topic at hand.

2) Here's one (of many) studies that isn't "correlational" (as you put it):

Drug Alcohol Depend. 2011 Apr 1;114(2-3):242-5. Epub 2010 Nov 2.
Diminished gray matter in the hippocampus of cannabis users: Possible protective effects of cannabidiol.

Demirakca T, Sartorius A, Ende G, Meyer N, Welzel H, Skopp G, Mann K, Hermann D.

Department of Neuroimaging, Central Institute of Mental Health, J 5, 68159 Mannheim, Germany.
Abstract

BACKGROUND: Chronic cannabis use has been associated with memory deficits and a volume reduction of the hippocampus, but none of the studies accounted for different effects of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD).

METHODS: Using a voxel based morphometry approach optimized for small subcortical structures (DARTEL) gray matter (GM) concentration and volume of the hippocampus were measured in 11 chronic recreational cannabis users and 13 healthy controls, and correlated with THC and CBD from hair analyses. GM volume was calculated by modulating VBM using Jacobian determinants derived from the spatial normalization.

RESULTS: Cannabis users showed lower GM volume located in a cluster of the right anterior hippocampus (P(uncorr)=0.002; effect size Cohen's d=1.34). In a regression analysis an inverse correlation of the ratio THC/CBD with the volume of the right hippocampus (P(uncorr)p<0.001, Cohen's d=3.43) was observed. Furthermore Cannabidiol correlated positively with GM concentration (unmodulated VBM data), but not with GM volume (modulated VBM) in the bilateral hippocampus (P=0.03 after correction for hippocampal volume; left hippocampus Cohen's d=4.37 and right hippocampus 4.65).

CONCLUSIONS: Lower volume in the right hippocampus in chronic cannabis users was corroborated. Higher THC and lower CBD was associated with this volume reduction indicating neurotoxic effects of THC and neuroprotective effects of CBD. This confirms existing preclinical and clinical results. As a possible mechanism the influence of cannabinoids on hippocampal neurogenesis is suggested.
Copyright © 2010 Elsevier Ireland Ltd. All rights reserved.

PMID: 21050680 [PubMed - in process]

 

[Sub-Zero]

1) I'm arguing against pot. I'm not arguing alcohol can't do damage. Did you forget what we were posting about? I had a couple of glasses of wine tonight, and I still remember the topic at hand.

2) Here's one (of many) studies that isn't "correlational" (as you put it):

Drug Alcohol Depend. 2011 Apr 1;114(2-3):242-5. Epub 2010 Nov 2.
Diminished gray matter in the hippocampus of cannabis users: Possible protective effects of cannabidiol.

Demirakca T, Sartorius A, Ende G, Meyer N, Welzel H, Skopp G, Mann K, Hermann D.

Department of Neuroimaging, Central Institute of Mental Health, J 5, 68159 Mannheim, Germany.
Abstract

BACKGROUND: Chronic cannabis use has been associated with memory deficits and a volume reduction of the hippocampus, but none of the studies accounted for different effects of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD).

METHODS: Using a voxel based morphometry approach optimized for small subcortical structures (DARTEL) gray matter (GM) concentration and volume of the hippocampus were measured in 11 chronic recreational cannabis users and 13 healthy controls, and correlated with THC and CBD from hair analyses. GM volume was calculated by modulating VBM using Jacobian determinants derived from the spatial normalization.

RESULTS: Cannabis users showed lower GM volume located in a cluster of the right anterior hippocampus (P(uncorr)=0.002; effect size Cohen's d=1.34). In a regression analysis an inverse correlation of the ratio THC/CBD with the volume of the right hippocampus (P(uncorr)p<0.001, Cohen's d=3.43) was observed. Furthermore Cannabidiol correlated positively with GM concentration (unmodulated VBM data), but not with GM volume (modulated VBM) in the bilateral hippocampus (P=0.03 after correction for hippocampal volume; left hippocampus Cohen's d=4.37 and right hippocampus 4.65).

CONCLUSIONS: Lower volume in the right hippocampus in chronic cannabis users was corroborated. Higher THC and lower CBD was associated with this volume reduction indicating neurotoxic effects of THC and neuroprotective effects of CBD. This confirms existing preclinical and clinical results. As a possible mechanism the influence of cannabinoids on hippocampal neurogenesis is suggested.
Copyright © 2010 Elsevier Ireland Ltd. All rights reserved.

PMID: 21050680 [PubMed - in process]

you were arguing that pot is more detrimental to every day function than alcohol.

2 glasses of wine could be compared to 2 hits, maybe even 1 hit. and fyi, you would have no clue wheover smoked that much was even high. you keep trying to compare your precious 2 glasses of wine (lmao fag), to HEAVY pot smokers.

and fyi iv smoked once in the past 4 months...

 

[CoBra666]

alcohol. i can hammed and still attempt anything. pot just makes me lazy, weird and hungry

 

[CoBra666]

im actually quite motivated when im drunk

 

[mrplunkey]

you were arguing that pot is more detrimental to every day function than alcohol.

2 glasses of wine could be compared to 2 hits, maybe even 1 hit. and fyi, you would have no clue wheover smoked that much was even high. you keep trying to compare your precious 2 glasses of wine (lmao fag), to HEAVY pot smokers.

and fyi iv smoked once in the past 4 months...

Please provide a peer-reviewed study demonstrating that 2 hits (maybe 1 hit) is equivalent to two glasses of wine.

You asked for articles and I post them. Now it's your turn.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Please provide a peer-reviewed study demonstrating that 2 hits (maybe 1 hit) is equivalent to two glasses of wine.

You asked for articles and I post them. Now it's your turn.

you cant OD on pot. you care way more about this topic. these days i dont drink OR smoke, so whatever man

 

[mrplunkey]

you cant OD on pot. you care way more about this topic. these days i dont drink OR smoke, so whatever man

I'd still like to see that study about two (or one) hits being equivalent to two glasses of wine. It sure sounds like stoner science to me.

 

[Sub-Zero]

I'd still like to see that study about two (or one) hits being equivalent to two glasses of wine. It sure sounds like stoner science to me.

it was partier science. i never said there was any study, i just have smoked 5 blunts in a night, and have also drank 15+ drinks in a night, which are pretty much my threshold for each, and been able to compare affects.

i have also smoked a few hits, or drank a glass or two of wine, and been able to compare those affects (as they compare to the absolute maximum of each respective drug)

anyway, this argument is silly, enjoy your alcohol, and just realize that pot isnt for you, but your experiences and bias on the subject doesnt dictate the way other people react to or experience the drug. you can never make a fair comparison or have an intelligent point of view on the subject, simply because you dont have experience in using both rec drugs, only the one (alcohol)