Making lemonade from lemons - my SF 5x5 without squats

[kethnaab]

As I said elsewhere, I can't squat. I can't do heavy barbell bench presses, and I can't do heavy barbell overhead presses. I simply can't. Shoulder reconstruction surgery has made sure of this

I can do the various types of Pendlay rows (I do them with barbells, DBs and T-Bar), I can even pull from the floor, and I can do DB presses of all types.

Here's what I can hit now:

Flat bench DB Press: 135x5
Deadlift: 365x5
Pendlay Barbell row: 225x5 (3 sets), estimate 255 x 5 for 1 set
Seated Hammer overhead: 135x5
Pendlay Tbar row: 180x5
power shrug: 405x10 pretty easy

I can do probably 5 or 6 sets of 15-rep dips and I have done 5 sets of 10 hammer grip chinups recently at the very end of a back workout.

now if I understand SF 5x5 style training, I could arrange my workout as thusly:

M
Deadlift - 345 x 5 x 5
Flat bench DB Press - 125 x 5 x 5
Pendlay BB Row - 205 x 5 x 5
Seated Hammer overhead - 125 x 5 x 5
Chins - 3 x 10
dips - 2 x 15

W
Pendlay BB Row - 205 x 5 x 5
Flat DB Press - 105 x 5 x 5
Pendlay T-Bar - 160 x 5 x 5
Seated Hammer overhead - 100 x 5 x 5
Power shrug - 365 x 10 reps, 5 sets
dips - 2 x 15
chinups - 3 x 10

F
Deadlift - 185 x 5, 225 x 5, 275 x 5, 315 x 5, 385 x 5 (Attempt)
Flat DB Press - 55 x 5, 75 x 5, 95 x 5, 115 x 5, 140 x 5 (Attempt)
Pendlay BB row - 135 x 5, 165 x 5, 195 x 5, 225 x 5, 255 x 5 (Attempt)
Seated overhead - 90 x 5, 105 x 5, 115 x 5, 125 x 5, 145 x 5 (Attempt)
chinups - 3 x 10
dips - 2 x 15


if, on Monday, I hit all 25 of my reps for each exercise, I up the weight on the next Monday. If, on Friday, I hit my last set of 5, I up the weight next Friday.

Otherwise, I keep the weights the same for another week. I also use Wednesday to gauge my recovery, and use lesser weight on Wednesday if need be the next week.

If recovery is okay on Fridays, I can add in a few sets of rope pressdowns to keep elbows healthy and maybe 1 or 2 sets of BB curls if need be.

How does that look?

EDIT - forgot to mention. I plan to do HST-style, 2 weeks of 15s, 2 weeks of 10s, followed by 3 weeks of the above-mentioned 5x5. I'll spend a week deloading, doing 3x3 of all of the above, then back at the 2 weeks of 15s, HST-style.

 

[kethnaab]

I should probably post some specific questions here

1) Anyone ever try deadlifting 2x per week? Pulls from the floor are pretty harsh, am I nuts for trying to hit the deadlift twice weekly? Should I try powershrugging 2x weekly and pulling heavy only on Wednesday or something?

2) Is my idea for sets/weight progression proper? I have read too damn many 5x5 articles, and now I'm confused.

3) Is my idea of deloading proper? 5x3 with the same weights I was using for 5x5? Or should I deload by doing 3x3 with the previuos 5x5 weight?

4) Am I nuts for attempting this with my gimpy-ass body? Should I give up on heavy lifting and stick with sets of 8 and 10?

 

[blut wump]

My only experience of multiple deadlifts per week was during the Korte 3x3 which is deliberately low in intensity to accomodate the volume. You might find it hard to do heavy deads and then move on to do more heavy work. So you might want to consider doing deads after other heavy work.

The whole idea of a deload is to take a week off without taking a week off and losing conditioning and strength. In the 5x5 the workload is slashed to about a third of the previous week's work for the deload week or weeks.

The layout you have seems like a lot of exercises. I don't know your level but you might find that you're overdoing the exercise selection.

 

[kethnaab]

My only experience of multiple deadlifts per week was during the Korte 3x3 which is deliberately low in intensity to accomodate the volume. You might find it hard to do heavy deads and then move on to do more heavy work. So you might want to consider doing deads after other heavy work.

yeah, see, that's what I was thinking too. Perhaps move the deadlifts to Wednesday, follow up with the 75% stuff, and then leave the power shrugs for Monday and Friday

The whole idea of a deload is to take a week off without taking a week off and losing conditioning and strength. In the 5x5 the workload is slashed to about a third of the previous week's work for the deload week or weeks.

5x5 = 25. 3x3 =9 9 is approximately a third of 25, so 3x3 during deload makes sense, yes?

The layout you have seems like a lot of exercises. I don't know your level but you might find that you're overdoing the exercise selection.

pretend the dips and chinups aren't there. I can do the 3 sets of 15 dips and the 2 sets of chins, alternating one right after the other, in about 3 minutes and barely sweat. bodyweight work is easy for me. I just have them in there so I don't suck at them.

so, essentially, 4 exercises on M-F, and 5 on W, during the 75% day.

thx for your feedback Blut, I really appreicate it.

 

[kethnaab]

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to blut wump again.

 

[blut wump]

Give the hack squats a whirl. You might like them.

If I understand the Pendlay T-bar correctly, you have rowing in twice on Weds. You could try DB rows as an alternative. I also notice a lack of abs work. Do you have facilities for hypers or reverse hypers?

I'm sure you could work deads twice a week but you might need to drop one of them down to something more akin to a speed day where you'd run something along the lines of 8 or 10 sets of 3 with lower weight. If you're planning to work this through a HST template, though, then that's maybe not an option. Power shrugs are good. RDL might work well, too.

 

[kethnaab]

yeah, I will be moving the 2x rowing from wednesdays because i'll move the deads to this day.

I do pendlay DB rows too. I like 'em, probably as much as the pendlay t-bars.

I do abs during morning PT (military)

I will spooge orgasmically the day I see a gym with a real, live reverse hyper.

I was considering RDL also, for some specific hammie work.

don't even bother thinking about the HST stuff, I am keeping them separate entitites.

In other words, I do 2 weeks of 15-rep sets, 2 weeks of 10-rep sets, then I will substitute the 5x5 for the 2 weeks of 5-rep sets in an HST workout.

 

[kethnaab]

M
Deadlift - 345 x 5 x 5
Flat bench DB Press - 125 x 5 x 5
Pendlay BB Row - 205 x 5 x 5
Seated Hammer overhead - 125 x 5 x 5
Chins - 3 x 10
dips - 2 x 15

W
Pendlay BB Row - 205 x 5 x 5
Flat DB Press - 105 x 5 x 5
Pendlay T-Bar - 160 x 5 x 5
Seated Hammer overhead - 100 x 5 x 5
Power shrug - 365 x 10 reps, 5 sets
dips - 2 x 15
chinups - 3 x 10

F
Flat DB Press - 55 x 5, 75 x 5, 95 x 5, 115 x 5, 140 x 5 (Attempt)
Pendlay BB row - 135 x 5, 165 x 5, 195 x 5, 225 x 5, 255 x 5 (Attempt)
Seated overhead - 90 x 5, 105 x 5, 115 x 5, 125 x 5, 145 x 5 (Attempt)
Stiff-leg Deadlift - 225 x 5 x 5 (honestly not sure of the weight to try)
chinups - 3 x 10
dips - 2 x 15


so the change I made, obviously, was to stick SLDL on Friday. The light weight shouldn't really interfere with the rest of the stuff, especially since I moved it to last in the day so that the rest of my weekly PR attempts are first.

maybe the key to making this work is NOT to work to a PR on the deadlift, but to increase the pull slowly and consistently.

of course, with muscle memory being what it is (I've pulled 5 wheels for reps "back in the day"), the pulling might not really beat me up

regardless, how's this look for a starting point now? I have tried BB hacks before. My ass is too big and my arms are too short, they just don't...do...anything for me, unfortunately.

 

[Guinness5.0]

I think it looks quite good given your limitations. Just approach it cautiously from a workload standpoint (esp. early on) and be in tune w/ your fatigue level.

FWIW IMO you're not really running 5x5 at all, but rather a modified HST cycle with a pretty damn high volume 5 rep period, which should be fine assuming you don't incur too much fatigue from the 15's/10's. If you ramp things nice and steady to begin with, this is likely to be a nifty little program with a nice 'death session' toward the end of the 5's. That deload's gonna feel reeeeaaaaaaaaaal nice

Jsut my thoughts anyway.

 

[kethnaab]

well, I have 2 more weeks until I hit the 5 rep time, so I have time to tweek and adjust.

*sigh* What I wouldn't give to be able to do

squats
bench
rows
hanging clean & press

and be done with it. oy...have to make things so damn complicated with my gimpness...*pout*