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MarkusReinhardt
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What to choose from? or are they both just scams.
hmm...
OK, well first of all Mag-10 is not even available to the public yet. I have tried 1-AD and it is a very good supplement. If Mag-10 has what 1-AD has in it, plus some, then Mag-10 will be that much better. I will probably try it and see what happens, even though it is 100 bones. But as far as 1-AD goes, top notch in my mind.
OK, well first of all Mag-10 is not even available to the public yet. I have tried 1-AD and it is a very good supplement. If Mag-10 has what 1-AD has in it, plus some, then Mag-10 will be that much better. I will probably try it and see what happens, even though it is 100 bones. But as far as 1-AD goes, top notch in my mind.
M
MarkusReinhardt
Guest
wow... so it really does work? I though all pro-hormones did not work as well as people thought and it was all hyped up.
Maybe I will give that a try... you are sure that it doesnt supress your own natural levels?
also what were your gains like and how did you take it?
Maybe I will give that a try... you are sure that it doesnt supress your own natural levels?
also what were your gains like and how did you take it?
Re: hmm...
It does not. Mag-10 has 1-AD's conversion product (17beta-hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one aka 1-testosterone), which is not orally active, thus they have added the ethylcarbonate ester, which I have seen no data on. PA, are you aware of any??
If it does work as well as they claim, the invention of the ester will be something better than the pharmaceutical industry was ever able to come up with, which should make a person a bit sceptical.
Of course, they did get 99% absorption with a flavone
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
Birduvsc said:
It does not. Mag-10 has 1-AD's conversion product (17beta-hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one aka 1-testosterone), which is not orally active, thus they have added the ethylcarbonate ester, which I have seen no data on. PA, are you aware of any??
If it does work as well as they claim, the invention of the ester will be something better than the pharmaceutical industry was ever able to come up with, which should make a person a bit sceptical.
Of course, they did get 99% absorption with a flavone
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
Biotest says to get the best results "cycle for 8-weeks". Over those 8 weeks you can gain 20lbs (Remember to minus the amount of muscle you would gain naturally to get true "supplement results”).
Now do the math, 8 weeks at $100/bottle which last two weeks so you will need 4 bottles!! That $400!! And that is before any type of tax or delivery or . . . could a PH be worth it?
My call is that there is no way the product will live up to the hype and you would be better off sticking to more notable supplements and let the fad of Mag-10 (With that flaming back ground and water blue label) fade before testing the results first hand. Though the picture may try symbolism of the blue water putting out the roaring fire it is all marketing handy work to try to get you to drop $400 on a untested product (At least untested by reliable sources).
Keep the wallet light and the weights heavy and allow another Biotest product to fall off the face of the earth or be absorbed (Mind the pun) into the cracks of PH world. In turn, allowing other products that have always relied on word of mouth and proven results to spread their name.
Remember back to a time when Androsol broke out with it's *guaranteed* 10 pounds in 10 days routine! Along side the hype was testosterone magazine (Can we say in the pocket of Biotest) jacking the product some more ... I feel history repeating itself
I admit right now I could be wrong, but let time tell that one.
But hey, that's just my opinion...
Last note: I feel the nickname Biobust starting up if this Mag-10 product fails
Now do the math, 8 weeks at $100/bottle which last two weeks so you will need 4 bottles!! That $400!! And that is before any type of tax or delivery or . . . could a PH be worth it?
My call is that there is no way the product will live up to the hype and you would be better off sticking to more notable supplements and let the fad of Mag-10 (With that flaming back ground and water blue label) fade before testing the results first hand. Though the picture may try symbolism of the blue water putting out the roaring fire it is all marketing handy work to try to get you to drop $400 on a untested product (At least untested by reliable sources).
Keep the wallet light and the weights heavy and allow another Biotest product to fall off the face of the earth or be absorbed (Mind the pun) into the cracks of PH world. In turn, allowing other products that have always relied on word of mouth and proven results to spread their name.
Remember back to a time when Androsol broke out with it's *guaranteed* 10 pounds in 10 days routine! Along side the hype was testosterone magazine (Can we say in the pocket of Biotest) jacking the product some more ... I feel history repeating itself
I admit right now I could be wrong, but let time tell that one.
But hey, that's just my opinion...
Last note: I feel the nickname Biobust starting up if this Mag-10 product fails
Re: Re: hmm...
I have come to the conclusion that the ethylcarbonate thing was a complete scam. But I do not know who the source of the scam is. Did Bill Roberts scam Tim Patterson into thinking it did something, or did Tim Patterson take the theory from Bill and make up the outrageous claims about it?
BTW, why do I (and you) even bother with scientific accuracy anyway? Shit sells as long as you tell a good story and sound authoritative. Maybe we have some stupid sense of integrity. I blame my father, that bleeding heart Jimmy Carter like son of a bitch
Par Deus said:
It does not. Mag-10 has 1-AD's conversion product (17beta-hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one aka 1-testosterone), which is not orally active, thus they have added the ethylcarbonate ester, which I have seen no data on. PA, are you aware of any??
If it does work as well as they claim, the invention of the ester will be something better than the pharmaceutical industry was ever able to come up with, which should make a person a bit sceptical.
Of course, they did get 99% absorption with a flavone
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
I have come to the conclusion that the ethylcarbonate thing was a complete scam. But I do not know who the source of the scam is. Did Bill Roberts scam Tim Patterson into thinking it did something, or did Tim Patterson take the theory from Bill and make up the outrageous claims about it?
BTW, why do I (and you) even bother with scientific accuracy anyway? Shit sells as long as you tell a good story and sound authoritative. Maybe we have some stupid sense of integrity. I blame my father, that bleeding heart Jimmy Carter like son of a bitch
Re: Re: Re: hmm...
I do not know what to think.
On one hand, the existing data on oral esters that I am aware of is terrible. I have seen as low as .36% bioavailability with nandrolone undecanoate, I think the highest I have seen is in the 3% range.
So, it seems unlikely that this one would be so much better (and with the cost of 1-test, it certainly needs to be. ) -- particularly considering the pharmaceutical industry uses injections and transdermals because they cannot get a non-C-17AA oral to work.
I found one thing on an ethylcarbonate ester in prednisolone, but it already gets like 70% oral bioavailability without it, so it is hard to consider that as relevant data.
On the other hand, if it doesn't work, this product is going to do NOTHING. With the claims they have made, I have to think they would be done.
It is not like a protein powder, where you could blaim someone for not working hard enough or something. This is an androgen, and everyone knows you can grow on androgens without lifting or eating
I get the feeling that this is their HMB, and that they are willing to lose their current base and take on a whole new following of suckers.
Or maybe they are just going to secretly alpha akylate it
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
pa1ad said:
I do not know what to think.
On one hand, the existing data on oral esters that I am aware of is terrible. I have seen as low as .36% bioavailability with nandrolone undecanoate, I think the highest I have seen is in the 3% range.
So, it seems unlikely that this one would be so much better (and with the cost of 1-test, it certainly needs to be. ) -- particularly considering the pharmaceutical industry uses injections and transdermals because they cannot get a non-C-17AA oral to work.
I found one thing on an ethylcarbonate ester in prednisolone, but it already gets like 70% oral bioavailability without it, so it is hard to consider that as relevant data.
On the other hand, if it doesn't work, this product is going to do NOTHING. With the claims they have made, I have to think they would be done.
It is not like a protein powder, where you could blaim someone for not working hard enough or something. This is an androgen, and everyone knows you can grow on androgens without lifting or eating
I get the feeling that this is their HMB, and that they are willing to lose their current base and take on a whole new following of suckers.
Or maybe they are just going to secretly alpha akylate it
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
I usually just read the threads to see what I can learn but every now and then a certain subject makes me think my head will explode. The main reason we continue to see product after product that doesn't live up to the hype is because as consumers we continue to freely bend over and take it right up the ass! I dont know how many times i,ve surfed these boards and read about how companies should stop making outrageous claims like 20 pounds of solid muscle in 30 to 60 days better than steroids and no side effects. In my humble opinion anyone who spends 100.00 for a two week supply for an OTC supp that hasn't even come out yet is just as guilty as the company that made the shit in the first place. This is not a slam on biotest I tried the 4ad and it was decent but their claims about mag-10 sound to good to be true. As for 1-ad I've read good and bad but 100.00 for a two week supply is god damn insult.
Re: Re: Re: Re: hmm...
BEleive me dude, the chances of them getting away with that shit is zero. NOt only do i have my own GC with which i can test versus standards of known compounds, i also have easy access to a GC/MS on campus with which to identify any such modifications. And I intend to investigate compeitors prohormone products quite intensively. I already found one company selling a product labelled as 1-androstenedione and found it actually contained 1,4-androstadienedione with small amounts of an unknown compound that i suspect is 4,6-androstadienedione
Par Deus said:
I do not know what to think.
On one hand, the existing data on oral esters that I am aware of is terrible. I have seen as low as .36% bioavailability with nandrolone undecanoate, I think the highest I have seen is in the 3% range.
So, it seems unlikely that this one would be so much better (and with the cost of 1-test, it certainly needs to be. ) -- particularly considering the pharmaceutical industry uses injections and transdermals because they cannot get a non-C-17AA oral to work.
I found one thing on an ethylcarbonate ester in prednisolone, but it already gets like 70% oral bioavailability without it, so it is hard to consider that as relevant data.
On the other hand, if it doesn't work, this product is going to do NOTHING. With the claims they have made, I have to think they would be done.
It is not like a protein powder, where you could blaim someone for not working hard enough or something. This is an androgen, and everyone knows you can grow on androgens without lifting or eating
I get the feeling that this is their HMB, and that they are willing to lose their current base and take on a whole new following of suckers.
Or maybe they are just going to secretly alpha akylate it
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
BEleive me dude, the chances of them getting away with that shit is zero. NOt only do i have my own GC with which i can test versus standards of known compounds, i also have easy access to a GC/MS on campus with which to identify any such modifications. And I intend to investigate compeitors prohormone products quite intensively. I already found one company selling a product labelled as 1-androstenedione and found it actually contained 1,4-androstadienedione with small amounts of an unknown compound that i suspect is 4,6-androstadienedione
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