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MarkusReinhardt
Guest
What to choose from? or are they both just scams.
hmm...
OK, well first of all Mag-10 is not even available to the public yet. I have tried 1-AD and it is a very good supplement. If Mag-10 has what 1-AD has in it, plus some, then Mag-10 will be that much better. I will probably try it and see what happens, even though it is 100 bones. But as far as 1-AD goes, top notch in my mind.
OK, well first of all Mag-10 is not even available to the public yet. I have tried 1-AD and it is a very good supplement. If Mag-10 has what 1-AD has in it, plus some, then Mag-10 will be that much better. I will probably try it and see what happens, even though it is 100 bones. But as far as 1-AD goes, top notch in my mind.
M
MarkusReinhardt
Guest
wow... so it really does work? I though all pro-hormones did not work as well as people thought and it was all hyped up.
Maybe I will give that a try... you are sure that it doesnt supress your own natural levels?
also what were your gains like and how did you take it?
Maybe I will give that a try... you are sure that it doesnt supress your own natural levels?
also what were your gains like and how did you take it?
Re: hmm...
It does not. Mag-10 has 1-AD's conversion product (17beta-hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one aka 1-testosterone), which is not orally active, thus they have added the ethylcarbonate ester, which I have seen no data on. PA, are you aware of any??
If it does work as well as they claim, the invention of the ester will be something better than the pharmaceutical industry was ever able to come up with, which should make a person a bit sceptical.
Of course, they did get 99% absorption with a flavone
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
Birduvsc said:
It does not. Mag-10 has 1-AD's conversion product (17beta-hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one aka 1-testosterone), which is not orally active, thus they have added the ethylcarbonate ester, which I have seen no data on. PA, are you aware of any??
If it does work as well as they claim, the invention of the ester will be something better than the pharmaceutical industry was ever able to come up with, which should make a person a bit sceptical.
Of course, they did get 99% absorption with a flavone
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
Biotest says to get the best results "cycle for 8-weeks". Over those 8 weeks you can gain 20lbs (Remember to minus the amount of muscle you would gain naturally to get true "supplement results”).
Now do the math, 8 weeks at $100/bottle which last two weeks so you will need 4 bottles!! That $400!! And that is before any type of tax or delivery or . . . could a PH be worth it?
My call is that there is no way the product will live up to the hype and you would be better off sticking to more notable supplements and let the fad of Mag-10 (With that flaming back ground and water blue label) fade before testing the results first hand. Though the picture may try symbolism of the blue water putting out the roaring fire it is all marketing handy work to try to get you to drop $400 on a untested product (At least untested by reliable sources).
Keep the wallet light and the weights heavy and allow another Biotest product to fall off the face of the earth or be absorbed (Mind the pun) into the cracks of PH world. In turn, allowing other products that have always relied on word of mouth and proven results to spread their name.
Remember back to a time when Androsol broke out with it's *guaranteed* 10 pounds in 10 days routine! Along side the hype was testosterone magazine (Can we say in the pocket of Biotest) jacking the product some more ... I feel history repeating itself
I admit right now I could be wrong, but let time tell that one.
But hey, that's just my opinion...
Last note: I feel the nickname Biobust starting up if this Mag-10 product fails
Now do the math, 8 weeks at $100/bottle which last two weeks so you will need 4 bottles!! That $400!! And that is before any type of tax or delivery or . . . could a PH be worth it?
My call is that there is no way the product will live up to the hype and you would be better off sticking to more notable supplements and let the fad of Mag-10 (With that flaming back ground and water blue label) fade before testing the results first hand. Though the picture may try symbolism of the blue water putting out the roaring fire it is all marketing handy work to try to get you to drop $400 on a untested product (At least untested by reliable sources).
Keep the wallet light and the weights heavy and allow another Biotest product to fall off the face of the earth or be absorbed (Mind the pun) into the cracks of PH world. In turn, allowing other products that have always relied on word of mouth and proven results to spread their name.
Remember back to a time when Androsol broke out with it's *guaranteed* 10 pounds in 10 days routine! Along side the hype was testosterone magazine (Can we say in the pocket of Biotest) jacking the product some more ... I feel history repeating itself
I admit right now I could be wrong, but let time tell that one.
But hey, that's just my opinion...
Last note: I feel the nickname Biobust starting up if this Mag-10 product fails
Re: Re: hmm...
I have come to the conclusion that the ethylcarbonate thing was a complete scam. But I do not know who the source of the scam is. Did Bill Roberts scam Tim Patterson into thinking it did something, or did Tim Patterson take the theory from Bill and make up the outrageous claims about it?
BTW, why do I (and you) even bother with scientific accuracy anyway? Shit sells as long as you tell a good story and sound authoritative. Maybe we have some stupid sense of integrity. I blame my father, that bleeding heart Jimmy Carter like son of a bitch
Par Deus said:
It does not. Mag-10 has 1-AD's conversion product (17beta-hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one aka 1-testosterone), which is not orally active, thus they have added the ethylcarbonate ester, which I have seen no data on. PA, are you aware of any??
If it does work as well as they claim, the invention of the ester will be something better than the pharmaceutical industry was ever able to come up with, which should make a person a bit sceptical.
Of course, they did get 99% absorption with a flavone
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
I have come to the conclusion that the ethylcarbonate thing was a complete scam. But I do not know who the source of the scam is. Did Bill Roberts scam Tim Patterson into thinking it did something, or did Tim Patterson take the theory from Bill and make up the outrageous claims about it?
BTW, why do I (and you) even bother with scientific accuracy anyway? Shit sells as long as you tell a good story and sound authoritative. Maybe we have some stupid sense of integrity. I blame my father, that bleeding heart Jimmy Carter like son of a bitch
Re: Re: Re: hmm...
I do not know what to think.
On one hand, the existing data on oral esters that I am aware of is terrible. I have seen as low as .36% bioavailability with nandrolone undecanoate, I think the highest I have seen is in the 3% range.
So, it seems unlikely that this one would be so much better (and with the cost of 1-test, it certainly needs to be. ) -- particularly considering the pharmaceutical industry uses injections and transdermals because they cannot get a non-C-17AA oral to work.
I found one thing on an ethylcarbonate ester in prednisolone, but it already gets like 70% oral bioavailability without it, so it is hard to consider that as relevant data.
On the other hand, if it doesn't work, this product is going to do NOTHING. With the claims they have made, I have to think they would be done.
It is not like a protein powder, where you could blaim someone for not working hard enough or something. This is an androgen, and everyone knows you can grow on androgens without lifting or eating
I get the feeling that this is their HMB, and that they are willing to lose their current base and take on a whole new following of suckers.
Or maybe they are just going to secretly alpha akylate it
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
pa1ad said:
I do not know what to think.
On one hand, the existing data on oral esters that I am aware of is terrible. I have seen as low as .36% bioavailability with nandrolone undecanoate, I think the highest I have seen is in the 3% range.
So, it seems unlikely that this one would be so much better (and with the cost of 1-test, it certainly needs to be. ) -- particularly considering the pharmaceutical industry uses injections and transdermals because they cannot get a non-C-17AA oral to work.
I found one thing on an ethylcarbonate ester in prednisolone, but it already gets like 70% oral bioavailability without it, so it is hard to consider that as relevant data.
On the other hand, if it doesn't work, this product is going to do NOTHING. With the claims they have made, I have to think they would be done.
It is not like a protein powder, where you could blaim someone for not working hard enough or something. This is an androgen, and everyone knows you can grow on androgens without lifting or eating
I get the feeling that this is their HMB, and that they are willing to lose their current base and take on a whole new following of suckers.
Or maybe they are just going to secretly alpha akylate it
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
I usually just read the threads to see what I can learn but every now and then a certain subject makes me think my head will explode. The main reason we continue to see product after product that doesn't live up to the hype is because as consumers we continue to freely bend over and take it right up the ass! I dont know how many times i,ve surfed these boards and read about how companies should stop making outrageous claims like 20 pounds of solid muscle in 30 to 60 days better than steroids and no side effects. In my humble opinion anyone who spends 100.00 for a two week supply for an OTC supp that hasn't even come out yet is just as guilty as the company that made the shit in the first place. This is not a slam on biotest I tried the 4ad and it was decent but their claims about mag-10 sound to good to be true. As for 1-ad I've read good and bad but 100.00 for a two week supply is god damn insult.
Re: Re: Re: Re: hmm...
BEleive me dude, the chances of them getting away with that shit is zero. NOt only do i have my own GC with which i can test versus standards of known compounds, i also have easy access to a GC/MS on campus with which to identify any such modifications. And I intend to investigate compeitors prohormone products quite intensively. I already found one company selling a product labelled as 1-androstenedione and found it actually contained 1,4-androstadienedione with small amounts of an unknown compound that i suspect is 4,6-androstadienedione
Par Deus said:
I do not know what to think.
On one hand, the existing data on oral esters that I am aware of is terrible. I have seen as low as .36% bioavailability with nandrolone undecanoate, I think the highest I have seen is in the 3% range.
So, it seems unlikely that this one would be so much better (and with the cost of 1-test, it certainly needs to be. ) -- particularly considering the pharmaceutical industry uses injections and transdermals because they cannot get a non-C-17AA oral to work.
I found one thing on an ethylcarbonate ester in prednisolone, but it already gets like 70% oral bioavailability without it, so it is hard to consider that as relevant data.
On the other hand, if it doesn't work, this product is going to do NOTHING. With the claims they have made, I have to think they would be done.
It is not like a protein powder, where you could blaim someone for not working hard enough or something. This is an androgen, and everyone knows you can grow on androgens without lifting or eating
I get the feeling that this is their HMB, and that they are willing to lose their current base and take on a whole new following of suckers.
Or maybe they are just going to secretly alpha akylate it
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
BEleive me dude, the chances of them getting away with that shit is zero. NOt only do i have my own GC with which i can test versus standards of known compounds, i also have easy access to a GC/MS on campus with which to identify any such modifications. And I intend to investigate compeitors prohormone products quite intensively. I already found one company selling a product labelled as 1-androstenedione and found it actually contained 1,4-androstadienedione with small amounts of an unknown compound that i suspect is 4,6-androstadienedione
I was just joking about the 17-aa thing. The HMB thing, on the other hand, would not surprise me. They have been steadily moving that way for a while.
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
But what about . . .
I went to Syntrax's website and read their article "The Making of Orally Active Steroids." I took Chemistry in highschool, but I got a B and I slept through most of it so I know I can't really hang with super-genius steroid chemists like Pat. However, I read the Syntrax THP ether idea and it sounded very compelling. The guy who wrote it mentioned an Ether based steroid called Mepistanolone (developed by some Japanese pharmaceutical co.) or something and stated that the reason a steroidal ether would work is because it is SUPERLIPOPHILIC, meaning it clings to nonpolar solvents within the body, and would/could be absorbed completely by the Lymphatic system, hence bypassing the liver, because of its affinity for the largely lipid based lymphatic system.
Maybe I just completely butchered that article, but that's what I remembered, and it sounded very professional, scientific and compelling all at the same time. Sound like a scam to you, Pat? Because to me it sounds pretty damn good. This syntrax guy can't just go on mentioning that effective, steroidal ether technology was developed by some japanese pharmaceutical company if it wasn't true - if he did, he might as well have flushed his whole companies reputation down the toilet!
Man, if Biotest really is scamming people with Mag-10, they are going to get their reputation royally FUCKED! I feel sorry for them . . . ever since poliquin left, it seems like the website has become a big marketing front. I know these guys have to make money, but do they really have to hype their supps so much? I do frequent T-mag, but I generally stick to their archives section.
I went to Syntrax's website and read their article "The Making of Orally Active Steroids." I took Chemistry in highschool, but I got a B and I slept through most of it so I know I can't really hang with super-genius steroid chemists like Pat. However, I read the Syntrax THP ether idea and it sounded very compelling. The guy who wrote it mentioned an Ether based steroid called Mepistanolone (developed by some Japanese pharmaceutical co.) or something and stated that the reason a steroidal ether would work is because it is SUPERLIPOPHILIC, meaning it clings to nonpolar solvents within the body, and would/could be absorbed completely by the Lymphatic system, hence bypassing the liver, because of its affinity for the largely lipid based lymphatic system.
Maybe I just completely butchered that article, but that's what I remembered, and it sounded very professional, scientific and compelling all at the same time. Sound like a scam to you, Pat? Because to me it sounds pretty damn good. This syntrax guy can't just go on mentioning that effective, steroidal ether technology was developed by some japanese pharmaceutical company if it wasn't true - if he did, he might as well have flushed his whole companies reputation down the toilet!
Man, if Biotest really is scamming people with Mag-10, they are going to get their reputation royally FUCKED! I feel sorry for them . . . ever since poliquin left, it seems like the website has become a big marketing front. I know these guys have to make money, but do they really have to hype their supps so much? I do frequent T-mag, but I generally stick to their archives section.
Re: But what about . . .
I wrote about lipophilic steroid derivatives in an article several months ago. Here is excerpt:
Lipophilic steroid derivatives
After ingestion, most steroids make their way to the intestines where they are absorbed into the portal circulation. The portal circulation carries the steroid directly to the liver, which is the workhouse of destructive metabolism and inactivation of drugs. As a result, if the steroid is not protected in some way, very little will make it through the liver and into the rest of the body where it can do its magic.
In addition to the portal route, there is another route through which substances can be absorbed into the body from the intestine. If a substance is lipophilic (fat like) enough it will be absorbed in the same manner that dietary fat is. Dietary fat is incorportated into chylomicra, which are small fat globules composed of protein and fat. These chylomicra are absorbed into the lymphatic circulation, which by passes the liver. If you make a steroid lipophilic enough by altering its structure, then it too will incorportate into chylomicra and absorb into the lymphatic system. Once in the lymphatic system it can cross over into the general blood circulation, making it there without being subjected to the massive metabolic breakdown in the liver.
Scientists have found that by adding lipophilic side chains to steroids, they will to some extent be absorbed into the lymphatic system. If the side chain is linked on in such a way that it can hydrolyze (break apart) easily after being absorbed, the steroid is essentially rendered orally active. Two side chains that have been utilized to increase the oral bioavailability of steroids through increased lymphatic absorption are long chain alkyl ester groups, such as is seen with testosterone undecanoate (andriol), and enyl ether groups, such as is seen with quinbolone (anabolicum vaster).
The term "orally active" is of course a relative term. Lipophilically modified steroids are more orally active than the free parent steroids, however, they are no where near as active as the 17alpha-alkylated steroids. Testosterone undecanoate (TU) is probably the most commonly known lipophilically modified androgen, and it is not considered a very potent compound (its recommended daily dosage is about 240mg). In fact, one study found the oral administration of testosterone undecanoate led only to an absolute testosterone bioavailability of 6.83 +/- 3.32%. That is very slight, especially considering the fact that in the same study they found the bioavailability of straight testosterone to be 3.56 +/- 2.45% (Eur J Drug Metab Pharmacokinet 1986 Apr-Jun;11(2):145-9). That means TU is just a little less than twice as orally active as free testosterone, which is unimpressive to say the least.
The other problem with lipophilic steroid preparations is the high variability in absorption from one person to another. In other words, one guy might absorb the stuff very well while the other guy might absorb very little. There is also high variation within individuals themselves, depending on their gastrointestinal condition when they take the stuff. In another study, ten post-menopausal women were given 40 mg of TU and their peak blood values were recorded. The values varied widely - more than ten fold (range: 5.8-64.0 nmol/L) - amongst the subjects (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1998 Nov;83(11): 3920-4).
There is no specific data I can find on the bioavailabilty of enyl ether compounds, but since their mode of action is identical to long chain alkyl ester compounds like TU, it is a fair assumption that they too are not outstandingly high in oral bioavailability, or in consistency of absorption. What I do know is that the one and only enyl ether oral steroid on the market today (quinbolone) is generally regarded by european bodybuilders / athletes as too weak to even bother taking.
Fortes said:
I wrote about lipophilic steroid derivatives in an article several months ago. Here is excerpt:
Lipophilic steroid derivatives
After ingestion, most steroids make their way to the intestines where they are absorbed into the portal circulation. The portal circulation carries the steroid directly to the liver, which is the workhouse of destructive metabolism and inactivation of drugs. As a result, if the steroid is not protected in some way, very little will make it through the liver and into the rest of the body where it can do its magic.
In addition to the portal route, there is another route through which substances can be absorbed into the body from the intestine. If a substance is lipophilic (fat like) enough it will be absorbed in the same manner that dietary fat is. Dietary fat is incorportated into chylomicra, which are small fat globules composed of protein and fat. These chylomicra are absorbed into the lymphatic circulation, which by passes the liver. If you make a steroid lipophilic enough by altering its structure, then it too will incorportate into chylomicra and absorb into the lymphatic system. Once in the lymphatic system it can cross over into the general blood circulation, making it there without being subjected to the massive metabolic breakdown in the liver.
Scientists have found that by adding lipophilic side chains to steroids, they will to some extent be absorbed into the lymphatic system. If the side chain is linked on in such a way that it can hydrolyze (break apart) easily after being absorbed, the steroid is essentially rendered orally active. Two side chains that have been utilized to increase the oral bioavailability of steroids through increased lymphatic absorption are long chain alkyl ester groups, such as is seen with testosterone undecanoate (andriol), and enyl ether groups, such as is seen with quinbolone (anabolicum vaster).
The term "orally active" is of course a relative term. Lipophilically modified steroids are more orally active than the free parent steroids, however, they are no where near as active as the 17alpha-alkylated steroids. Testosterone undecanoate (TU) is probably the most commonly known lipophilically modified androgen, and it is not considered a very potent compound (its recommended daily dosage is about 240mg). In fact, one study found the oral administration of testosterone undecanoate led only to an absolute testosterone bioavailability of 6.83 +/- 3.32%. That is very slight, especially considering the fact that in the same study they found the bioavailability of straight testosterone to be 3.56 +/- 2.45% (Eur J Drug Metab Pharmacokinet 1986 Apr-Jun;11(2):145-9). That means TU is just a little less than twice as orally active as free testosterone, which is unimpressive to say the least.
The other problem with lipophilic steroid preparations is the high variability in absorption from one person to another. In other words, one guy might absorb the stuff very well while the other guy might absorb very little. There is also high variation within individuals themselves, depending on their gastrointestinal condition when they take the stuff. In another study, ten post-menopausal women were given 40 mg of TU and their peak blood values were recorded. The values varied widely - more than ten fold (range: 5.8-64.0 nmol/L) - amongst the subjects (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1998 Nov;83(11): 3920-4).
There is no specific data I can find on the bioavailabilty of enyl ether compounds, but since their mode of action is identical to long chain alkyl ester compounds like TU, it is a fair assumption that they too are not outstandingly high in oral bioavailability, or in consistency of absorption. What I do know is that the one and only enyl ether oral steroid on the market today (quinbolone) is generally regarded by european bodybuilders / athletes as too weak to even bother taking.
Re: Re: But what about . . .
And this is the best study I have seen. There is one with nandrolone undecanoate that found .36%
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
pa1ad said:
And this is the best study I have seen. There is one with nandrolone undecanoate that found .36%
ParDeus
Big Motherfucker bodybuilding magazine
Issue #3 now on-line.
http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm
bigbubbagunz
New member
just received my 3 bottles of mag-10. buy 2 get 1 free you can get the 4 bottle you need for the cycle. plus they gave me a free bottle of their new anti estrogen called M. the taste of mag 10 could use some work. leaves a bad aftertaste. but if it works like they claim i can suffer. also using 1-ad for optimal test boosts. should be an interesting couple of weeks
OVRTrainer
New member
WHAT!
Firstly, you must be rich...
Second, why would you use a 1-Test precurser when you're already using a product that is "supposed" to contain actual 1-Test...there is such a thing as saturating your receptors
Third and Finally, why wouldn't you try out Mag-10 on its own to see if it actually works. Stacking it with something that is nearly "proven" to work would really cloud your assessment. In my opinion you should definitely not use 1-AD with the Mag-10 so that you don't feel bad asking for your money back when the stuff doesn't do shit!
Firstly, you must be rich...
Second, why would you use a 1-Test precurser when you're already using a product that is "supposed" to contain actual 1-Test...there is such a thing as saturating your receptors
Third and Finally, why wouldn't you try out Mag-10 on its own to see if it actually works. Stacking it with something that is nearly "proven" to work would really cloud your assessment. In my opinion you should definitely not use 1-AD with the Mag-10 so that you don't feel bad asking for your money back when the stuff doesn't do shit!
Thanks for the info, Pat. I think you're doing everyone a great favor by posting on this board - it seems you're an honest guy, and from the way 1-AD worked, it's hard for me to doubt your authority on steroidal biochemistry. Please keep posting!
BTW, I feel just about ready for another 1-AD cycle . . .
Oh yeah, Pat, what about your substrate series? Do you think you made a worthwhile venture with that absorbtion enhancement technology? And can it be coupled with 1-AD? Or would that just be a waste?
I'm still super-curious as to the conversion rate of 1-AD upon its entrance into the liver. Do ever plan on doing a study to determine what it is?
And one last thing: What university are you at, and what is your major? My guess is chemical engineering as for your major . . . with a self-granted emphasis on steroids! A very intriguing major, indeed, at least to any musclehead with half a brain.
BTW, I feel just about ready for another 1-AD cycle . . .
Oh yeah, Pat, what about your substrate series? Do you think you made a worthwhile venture with that absorbtion enhancement technology? And can it be coupled with 1-AD? Or would that just be a waste?
I'm still super-curious as to the conversion rate of 1-AD upon its entrance into the liver. Do ever plan on doing a study to determine what it is?
And one last thing: What university are you at, and what is your major? My guess is chemical engineering as for your major . . . with a self-granted emphasis on steroids! A very intriguing major, indeed, at least to any musclehead with half a brain.
notpuff said:
Yes, we have a 1-test/4-AD combination topical that is being beta tested right now.
ParDeus
Big Mf'r #4 -- Dec. 7th
www.avantlabs.com
Fortes said:
Oh yeah, Pat, what about your substrate series? Do you think you made a worthwhile venture with that absorbtion enhancement technology? And can it be coupled with 1-AD? Or would that just be a waste?
I'm still super-curious as to the conversion rate of 1-AD upon its entrance into the liver. Do ever plan on doing a study to determine what it is?
And one last thing: What university are you at, and what is your major? My guess is chemical engineering as for your major . . . with a self-granted emphasis on steroids! A very intriguing major, indeed, at least to any musclehead with half a brain.
Substrate series was something that was done purely for marketing. Substrate Solutions by Met-Rx was cancelled and many stores had loyal Substrate Solutions customers. Since we had rights to Substrate (sort of) by contract we took the opportunity to get Ergo into store shelves by offering a replacement with Substrate Series. I do not think the SS line is better than the straight ergo line, rather I think you are better off with straight ergo line of prohormones. If you want an oral prohormone or select capsules are the best bet
We funded a study back in May at Eastern Michigan University which because of complete fuck ups has still yet to be completed. That study will give some crude indication towards conversion rates and active life in blood sort of thing
I am 35 years old, and am no longer in college. I got as far as graduate schoool for a couple of years but left before i got any advanced degree. My major was chemical organic synthesis, and through years of work I am very knowledgable on steroid chemisty and synthesis
Originally posted by Par Deus
Yes, we have a 1-test/4-AD combination topical that is being beta tested right now.
ParDeus
Big Mf'r #4 -- Dec. 7th
www.avantlabs.com
Par:
Do you mean the Beta versions are available for sale?
Yes, we have a 1-test/4-AD combination topical that is being beta tested right now.
ParDeus
Big Mf'r #4 -- Dec. 7th
www.avantlabs.com
Par:
Do you mean the Beta versions are available for sale?
Par:
Do you mean the Beta versions are available for sale? [/B][/QUOTE]
No, but it will likely be made available starting Friday (the 7th).
ParDeus
Big Mf'r #4 -- Dec. 7th
www.avantlabs.com
Do you mean the Beta versions are available for sale? [/B][/QUOTE]
No, but it will likely be made available starting Friday (the 7th).
ParDeus
Big Mf'r #4 -- Dec. 7th
www.avantlabs.com
notpuff said:
In all likelihood, just packaging and scale of production -- In other words, nothing to do with the product itself. Though, we did alter LipoDerm-Y slightly from beta to final version. All of the others stayed exactly the same.
ParDeus
Big Mf'r #4 -- Dec. 7th
www.avantlabs.com
1-AD
Well I am just about finished with my 6 week Cycle of 1-ad. My appetite has gone through the roof. I started at about 170 - 173lbs. Could not break that plateu for a LONG time. I was taking 3 pills daily. My Strength went up Significantly. Pumps were awesome. So after two bottles, I at 183 - 185 lbs. More or less 10 lbs gain. I was eating everything. I mean everything. I really didn't watch my protein intake, however I tried to take as much in as possible. My Body Fat didn't go up that much, infact it really didn't effect my tone. Arms were about 15 1/2 inchs when I started, I am at 16inchs. Side effects were very little. I went through a week of insomnia. That was it. I give 1-ad THUMBS up.
Well I am just about finished with my 6 week Cycle of 1-ad. My appetite has gone through the roof. I started at about 170 - 173lbs. Could not break that plateu for a LONG time. I was taking 3 pills daily. My Strength went up Significantly. Pumps were awesome. So after two bottles, I at 183 - 185 lbs. More or less 10 lbs gain. I was eating everything. I mean everything. I really didn't watch my protein intake, however I tried to take as much in as possible. My Body Fat didn't go up that much, infact it really didn't effect my tone. Arms were about 15 1/2 inchs when I started, I am at 16inchs. Side effects were very little. I went through a week of insomnia. That was it. I give 1-ad THUMBS up.
40butpumpin
New member
Definitely not scams. I say Mag-10. I've tried both and I give the slight advantage to Mag-10 because I crashed pretty hard on the 1-AD. But it's still a great product nonetheless.
40butpumpin
New member
Hey, bro. You're right that I screwed up by staying on way too long without a break. I was only on the Mag-10 for a few weeks (actually about 10 days)., so I really had no business making that comment as it was an unfair comparison. The one thing I will say that I feel is a fair comparison is that I saw results from the Mag-10 sooner than I saw the 1-AD. For me it didn't really kick in for about 3 weeks. But like I said I think they're both good products. I'm looking forward to trying your product. Hey Par, by the way, what's your take on:
1,4-Androstadiene-3,17-dione (1,4-ADD)
1,4-Androstadiene-3,17-dione (1,4-ADD)
It would be interesting to me to see if the 10 people who voted that they are both scams HAVE EVEN TRIED THEM?
Why is it that the people who vote towards negativity have often not even tried the product?
Anyway, 1-AD worked great for me: 18 pounds in 5 weeks and bp went from 285 to 315 4x. I gained an inch on both arms and legs.
My workout partner (Mr Skeptical) also took 1-AD and experienced increase muscle mass and strength. This comes from the same person who never got ANYWHERE from andro.
Another thing I noticed was the joint relief while on 1-AD. Although I did seem to have a lower libido while on it. I'd stack andro with it if I was doing it again (going with real stuff next time).
Why is it that the people who vote towards negativity have often not even tried the product?
Anyway, 1-AD worked great for me: 18 pounds in 5 weeks and bp went from 285 to 315 4x. I gained an inch on both arms and legs.
My workout partner (Mr Skeptical) also took 1-AD and experienced increase muscle mass and strength. This comes from the same person who never got ANYWHERE from andro.
Another thing I noticed was the joint relief while on 1-AD. Although I did seem to have a lower libido while on it. I'd stack andro with it if I was doing it again (going with real stuff next time).
mvmaxx said:It would be interesting to me to see if the 10 people who voted that they are both scams HAVE EVEN TRIED THEM?
Why is it that the people who vote towards negativity have often not even tried the product?
Anyway, 1-AD worked great for me: 18 pounds in 5 weeks and bp went from 285 to 315 4x. I gained an inch on both arms and legs.
My workout partner (Mr Skeptical) also took 1-AD and experienced increase muscle mass and strength. This comes from the same person who never got ANYWHERE from andro.
Another thing I noticed was the joint relief while on 1-AD. Although I did seem to have a lower libido while on it. I'd stack andro with it if I was doing it again (going with real stuff next time).
The first and second generation andros basically dissapointed so many people that they simply refuse to believe that any prohormones will ever work. 1-AD is a vast improvement over the original andros but I am afraid you will never convince alot of people of that fact. But who cares? Those who tried the stuff and like it are happy, and to hell with the others.
Well said! 1-AD works for me! However, I wouldn't discount any other prohormone as "crap" for that reason. Besides, some things just work better for some people. I gained 20 lbs in 2 weeks with 1-AD but someone else may not even gain 5 lbs. That doesn't mean 1-AD is crap. I think there are too many closed minds when it comes to some supplements.
Complete Muscle
New member
Me too. I'm trying to compare the cost effectiveness of 1-AD vs 1-test. Assuming the oral availability is about the same for both, the answer would lie in 1-AD's conversion rate. Anyone know what that is???Fortes said:
Par Deus said:
the overall conversion of 1-AD is definitely alot greater than 4-AD due to the favored equilibirium of 1-AD/1-test towards the 17beta-hydroxyl form over 4-AD
The 15% number was after incubation in whole human blood, which is certainly NOT an indication of what conversion is after oral administration (where the compound is subject to intensive metabolism in the liver before ever reaching the blood). Maybe if you took your prohormones IV then it may have limited meaning, I dunno
M
MohawkMuscle
Guest
Good info on this stuff..
Im going on 1-Ad and need to know how do I come off
Im going on 1-Ad and need to know how do I come off
the nature boy
New member
Re: Re: Re: hmm...
this probably has to be the funniest thing i've read on the supps board.
pa1ad said:
this probably has to be the funniest thing i've read on the supps board.
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