Lumberg - 1-test Ethergels Dosage Question

[Flapjack1976]

Hey everyone. I've been lurking for quite a while now, and have read an incredible amount of information on both prohormones and real gear. For now, as long as it's legal, I will try prohormones.

First off, I don't want to start a huge debate about the value of prohormones and such, I've already made up my mind. If you have a bad thing to say about them, please don't do it here.

With that being said, I bought both a bottle of MN 1-test ethergels, and ErgoPharm 4-AD. I am trying to decide how much I should take.

I've read from a few sources that 100-150 mg of 1-test a day is recommended when using ethergels. They didn't seem to be very conservative sources, either. The problem is I've seen many (especially Lumberg) say that lipsomal is the best way to go. Does this mean I should use more 1-test?

Currently, I'm taking two 25mg capsules twice daily for a total of 100mg. At the same time, I'm taking one 300mg capsule of 4-AD twice daily.

Without purchasing more, that is enough for about 22 days, kind of a short cycle as far as I can tell. I was considering doubling up and ordering another bottle of each.

BTW, I've been working out pretty much ever since I've been in the military. I've gone from 126 when joining to my current weight of 162 @ 5'8". I haven't been able to get passed that hump. This is over the course of 8 years, with the last 4 years really understanding the mechanics behind effectively working out.

Also, I know many will suggest it so I have a bottle of ErgoPharm 6-OXO and a bottle of Tribex for post-cycle recovery.


Thanks!

 

[Flapjack1976]

...forgot to mention I'm 27 years old. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.

 

[Lumberg]

First of all flapjack thanks for your service to our country. I'm proud of you.

Second of all if I were going to do 1-test I would not go the oral route. I don't think I ever said liposomal is the way to go, for me transdermal is the best which means through the skin. Liposomal means encapulated in little bubbles of fat/oil. For oral 1-AD is the best bet.


Third of all 600 mg of 4-AD is waay too much IMO. 300 mg is plenty to give you a little extra kick. Try that first and wait to bump it up before you bloat up like a pufferfish.

Fourth of all I have no idea what the ideal dosage for ORAL 1-test is, but since you did your homework I would stick with 100 mg a day and see how it goes. 22 days is perfect for a first cycle IMO and afterwards you can analyze your results and formulate a dosage from there, assuming you want to continue to use oral 1-test.

Hope this helps.

 

[Flapjack1976]

That would explain it. I was under the impression that lipsomal and transdermal were the same thing.

Also, I thought if I was going to go oral, 1-test would still be better than 1-AD because it didn't need to be converted. I would guess this is because more survives the liver in the case of 1-AD?

After I wrote the reply, my buddy and I (who is also trying this stack) had decided to go with a third dosage of the same size. That would bring it to 150mg of 1-test and 900mg of 4-AD.

I figured both would be ok, since they're both within the recommended dosage (4-AD 300mg 1-3 times daily, 1-test 25-50mg 2-3 times daily).

900mg of 4-AD is 3x over what you recommended, so I'll back down on that if you think that's best. But what do you think of the ether delivery system for the 1-test (from Molecular Nutrition)? I heard good things about it, so I went with that. I've never been a fan of transdermals... they've always been a pain in the ass for me. I'll just suck it up for my next stack if it's that much better, though!

Oh yeah, here's the times I've been taking the doses plus my schedule and such:

(pretty good daily example)

6:00AM - Protein shake (25gm protein)
6:30 - Breakfast (usually scrambled eggs, biscuit, fruit and two hard boiled eggs), multivitamin
8:00 - 50mg 1-test, 300mg 4-AD
9:30 - Snack, tuna (21gm protein), banana, yogurt, nutrigrain bar
11:30 - Lunch, (whatever the chow hall has!)
2:30PM - Snack, same as 9:30 usually
4:00 - 50mg 1-test, 300mg 4-AD
5:30 - Workout
6:30 - Protein shake (50gm) with carb/creatine powder (10gm creatine)
7:30 - Dinner
10:00 - Protein shake (25gm), bedtime!
12:30AM - Protein shake (25gm), 50mg 1-test, 300mg 4-AD

So far, I have no sides other than lethargy. I'm never like this. But by the time I go to the gym, I'm usually more energetic. I usually have some sort of caffeine blast an hour before hitting the weights.

 

[Lumberg]

OK in your post you are mixing up 1-AD and 4-AD. You need to pick one and stay with it bro!

And 1-AD actually exploits the liver first pass phenomenon. Your liver actually converts 1-AD to 1-test.

I have never tried 1-test oral in ethergels, liposomal, etc. But I have tried 1-AD and it works.

The thing about transdermal delivery is that your blood levels stay elevated for longer, whereas with orals you are basically gonna get spikes.

Also for orals you are gonna want to gobble at least one of those doses IMMEDIATELY post workout, along with that whey/dextrose shake. Think about it, most anabolism occurs in the window imeediately after working out. That's also when you want your anabolic substances within you!

I find taking it before can actually make me sluggish post-wo also.

 

[Shark01]

Lumberg,
Don't know if you frequent any other boards but there is a new oral out there.......Methyl 1-Test (over 90% availability, methyl to bypass the liver). I hear it is the BOMB (already have 4 bottles set aside.

C-Ya

 

[Flapjack1976]

Yeah, I was getting goofed up between 1-AD and 4-AD while typing. What I was trying to ask was pretty much why 1-AD was better when it still needed to be converted, and you pretty much answered that. I fixed the post, though... in case anyone else is trying to follow along.

I'll start taking the doses right after workout. Do the other two doses seem ok? Should I drop 4-AD from the other two doses? If I'm only going to take 300mg of it, when is the best time?

I'm suprised that 600-900mg of 4-AD is too much, usually the bottles give a conservative dosage... is it because I'm stacking it with the 1-test? I have no bloating, but my buddy had a little stomach bloatage the first few days...

 

[Flapjack1976]

Shark01:

I'm curious about the new delivery system. Where'd you read about this?

 

[Lumberg]

Yeah, I was getting goofed up between 1-AD and 4-AD while typing. What I was trying to ask was pretty much why 1-AD was better when it still needed to be converted, and you pretty much answered that. I fixed the post, though... in case anyone else is trying to follow along.

I'll start taking the doses right after workout. Do the other two doses seem ok? Should I drop 4-AD from the other two doses? If I'm only going to take 300mg of it, when is the best time?

I'm suprised that 600-900mg of 4-AD is too much, usually the bottles give a conservative dosage... is it because I'm stacking it with the 1-test? I have no bloating, but my buddy had a little stomach bloatage the first few days...

I said just start at 300 mg a day. If after several days you have little or no bloating, go to 600. Etc. Don't jump into 600 or 900 a day, you might regret it.

Personally that would be way too much for me, I may have more aromatase than you.

As far as Methyl 1-test, I don't know much about it. I have plenty of Super One+ and a source for very cheap 1-AD so I'm in no hurry to discover new things yet.

 

[Flapjack1976]

I think I'll try the transdermal for my next cycle...

Can you tell me a little about the Super One+? Do I remember you saying it made you a little bloaty?

The 900mg of the 4-AD has done nothing as far as bloating, but it has only been a week. We'll see... next time, I'll start off slower. Since I'm already at 900mg, I don't want to drop down unless I see a problem. What are other signs of gyno other than itchy/puffy nipples and bloating?

Who makes the cheap 1-AD you were talking about? I'm sure you're comfortable that it is a quality product.

If you don't mind answering one more question, can you explain how 1-AD has an advantage over ether 1-test due to the first liver pass? I guess I don't understand it fully... I did a search, but can't seem to find anything.

 

[ProteinFiend]

100mg 1-t? That will do NOTHING to you... your better off without it because you'll just surpress yourself.

What I do is take 2 caps (50mg) or 3 caps (75mg) every 3 hrs I'm awake. I try not to go over 300mg/day. What this does is stabilize your hormone levels so you won't feel the hormonal ups and downs and your hair won't fall out. The half life of 1-t in the body is about 6 hours, and peaks at around 3... Thus I try to keep a good peak throughout the day so I have optimal hormone levels for growth.

As far the 4-ad, start off with what the bottle recommends then go up if you need to.

I've gained around 7 lbs in 10 days some of which is water (creatine). I have 3 bottles so I have about another 18 days left. MY last cycle of 1-ad was ok but I think i was too conservative so i didnt see many gains.

Now I'm eating like a horse and taking a bunch of those pills and I have my post cycle all planned out

And just remember, you spent your money on this stuff so take advantage of it by using ENOUGH of it, and eating a lot, dirnking a lot of water and taking neccessary precautions during and after the cycle.

 

[Flapjack1976]

That sounds like a lot more than others have done, and they have gotten good results with it.

I'm actually taking 150mg a day now, so that'll make one bottle last 15 days. I ordered another to finish up the month.

With the 4AD, that's $141 after shipping. If you're using that much, you must have a lot of extra money. Maybe you can buy me a few bottles!

 

[Lumberg]

I think I'll try the transdermal for my next cycle...

Can you tell me a little about the Super One+? Do I remember you saying it made you a little bloaty?

The 900mg of the 4-AD has done nothing as far as bloating, but it has only been a week. We'll see... next time, I'll start off slower. Since I'm already at 900mg, I don't want to drop down unless I see a problem. What are other signs of gyno other than itchy/puffy nipples and bloating?

Who makes the cheap 1-AD you were talking about? I'm sure you're comfortable that it is a quality product.

If you don't mind answering one more question, can you explain how 1-AD has an advantage over ether 1-test due to the first liver pass? I guess I don't understand it fully... I did a search, but can't seem to find anything.

Yes it made me bloaty. I don't wait to get itchy nips, if I get very bloaty I back off dosages. The 1-AD is from a friend of mine, he has a bunch of extra bottles he can sell me at a discount.

1-AD is the prohormone of 1-test. It does nothing, or very little, by itself. When it gets to your liver, poof! an enzyme turns it into one test.

Now when the one test comes back to the liver it's another story, but the point is all blood goes through your liver after passign by your digestive tract. But only some blood in general circulation goes through your liver every time around. Get it?

 

[ProteinFiend]

That sounds like a lot more than others have done, and they have gotten good results with it.

I'm actually taking 150mg a day now, so that'll make one bottle last 15 days. I ordered another to finish up the month.

With the 4AD, that's $141 after shipping. If you're using that much, you must have a lot of extra money. Maybe you can buy me a few bottles!

Oh let me correct myself... I was just using the 1-t... I'm up about 10 lbs including water and im through 1 1/4 bottles... I have 1 3/4 left. I just hope the gains keep coming.... sucks I have this damn strep throat...

 

[Shark01]

Shark01:

I'm curious about the new delivery system. Where'd you read about this?

Saw it first on anabolic minds but other places have threads on it too. Some very experienced PH and steroid guys are getting awesome gains from it. Looks like we finally have a legal PH that is on par with low dose oral steroids

 

[Flapjack1976]

Here's an update...

I'm still taking the 150mg 1-test/900mg 4-AD.

ProteinFiend: So you're saying you are not taking the ethergels, only the regular 1-test?

Lumberg: I don't seem to be having any side effects at this point. The first day, I had a little heart pounding and shortness of breath, but that went away during the second day. I had lethargy until yesterday. I could barely stay awake, let alone work... but yesterday was awesome as far as wakefullness goes.

Unfortunately, that didn't translate to any gains at the gym. I had plenty of intensity yesterday, but no gains on biceps from before I started the 1-test/4-AD cycle.

Today's chest workout was a little better, I went up 10 lbs on the flat bench press (175 to 185), and 5 lbs on incline dumbell flies (65 lb dumbells up to 70 lb dumbells).

The thing that kinda pisses me off, is these could just be normal gains. I know everyone has said most of their gains are in the 3rd and 4th weeks, so I'll keep it up. But honestly, I don't seem to have changed any.

My weight has only gone up slightly, if at all. I've been fluctuating between 160 and 163. For about a week before I started the 1-test, I was at a steady 160. Now I'm 162. I can't tell if it's a fluctuation or a gain.

I'll have to wait until the cycle is over to say whether or not it was worth it. Typically, I have a high tolerance to drugs of any kind. I've been considering going up to eight 25mg caps of 1-test per day for a total of 200mg instead of 150mg...

What do you think?

 

[Flapjack1976]

Saw it first on anabolic minds but other places have threads on it too. Some very experienced PH and steroid guys are getting awesome gains from it. Looks like we finally have a legal PH that is on par with low dose oral steroids

After what you said, I did some reading on the methyl-1-test. It seems they would be chemically harsh on your liver compared to ethergels...

Lumberg: Where is the cheapest place to get the Super One+? I can't seem to find any place that carries it. Would you go with that over 1-AD? I'm considering both for my next cycle...

 

[ProteinFiend]

Flap, i am taking the 1-t ethergels by molecular at 250-300mg/day. I am NOT taking 4-ad.

 

[ProteinFiend]

oh... and I take it divided up every 3 hours im awake to keep hormone levels constant....

try that vpx 1-t.... i heard they make a quality product.

 

[Sir Foxx]

anabolicminds.com


You can't beat BDC's 1-Test/4-AD transdermals.

 

[Flapjack1976]

Sir Foxx:

Are you saying Anabolicminds.com has .. I didn't see it there... In fact, I couldn't a shopping area period...

 

[Sir Foxx]

No, I'm saying anabolicminds has BDC's line of transdermals which as far as I'm concerned are better than Avants(although Avants are good). There is a link near the top right of the page called "member store" that you can click, or you can go directly to the site at powernutrition.com

If you register at anabolicminds first though you will get member prices.

 

[Lumberg]

After what you said, I did some reading on the methyl-1-test. It seems they would be chemically harsh on your liver compared to ethergels...

Lumberg: Where is the cheapest place to get the Super One+? I can't seem to find any place that carries it. Would you go with that over 1-AD? I'm considering both for my next cycle...

I've never tried BDCs transdermals but One, One+, and the "Super" variations are all alright by me.

 

[Flapjack1976]

Thanks everyone!

 

[dzuljas]

prohormones suck, either be all natural or get some gear

 

[Lumberg]

prohormones suck, either be all natural or get some gear

 

[Flapjack1976]

prohormones suck, either be all natural or get some gear

That's a pretty stupid statement. To think that your opinion should be that of everyone else's....

I'm in the military, gear is not an option. I've been all natural for 8 years, and I have hit a decidedly thick "wall".

This is all moot, because 1-test is not a pro-hormone, but I'm sure you already knew that.

Also, it works. In the 19 days I've been on it, I've gained 8 solid pounds. I was a little skeptical at first, because not much happened the first two weeks except lethargy. After that, it's been a pound or more a day since. I'm not saying it'll work for everyone, as my buddy has only gained about 4 pounds with the exact same dosage (up to 300mg a day of 1-test). But it worked for me.

Next cycle will be the methyl 1-test.

 

[ProteinFiend]

Next cycle will be the methyl 1-test.

dont say that.... you dont want you're liver fried.

 

[Shark01]

dont say that.... you dont want you're liver fried.

Very ignorant and misleading statement

Guys from the 60's popped D-Bol like candy, and their livers are just fine, and look at all the people from the dark side that injest 50-60 mg of oral juice a day without a problem.

Believe it, 20 mg of M 1-T for a couple of weeks won't hurt anyone.

That shit is the bomb though Thinking real hard about adding another 4 bottles to my stash before it gets yanked.

Like the guys on anabolic mids say.......legal Tren

 

[Flapjack1976]

I agree, I like everything I hear about the M 1-T. Yeah, it's harder on your liver, but it can't be any worse than the real gear. I would probably only do once cycle, anyway. I want to compare it to this cycle (which I know will be hard, being as though the first cycle is usually the best...)

Where do you get the M 1-T?

 

[ProteinFiend]

Very ignorant and misleading statement

Guys from the 60's popped D-Bol like candy, and their livers are just fine, and look at all the people from the dark side that injest 50-60 mg of oral juice a day without a problem.

Believe it, 20 mg of M 1-T for a couple of weeks won't hurt anyone.

That shit is the bomb though Thinking real hard about adding another 4 bottles to my stash before it gets yanked.

Like the guys on anabolic mids say.......legal Tren

you've actually done it? how was m 1-t?

and im sure the guys today take a lot more dbol than in the 60s... and how do you know everyone was ok?

 

[ProteinFiend]

I agree, I like everything I hear about the M 1-T. Yeah, it's harder on your liver, but it can't be any worse than the real gear. I would probably only do once cycle, anyway. I want to compare it to this cycle (which I know will be hard, being as though the first cycle is usually the best...)

Where do you get the M 1-T?

not any harder.... but just as hard...

the main problem is that these things are being sold OTC - i doubt there are adequate labels on the bottles either... this makes for a dangerous combo for unsuspecting newbies...

people that use gear (usually) know they are doing something illegal which can have many possible side effects... with a supplement, it can surprise you.

 

[Sir Foxx]

Hey all, David Lee Roth is still alive, and he took/is taking drugs way harder than any discussed here. Methyl 1-T with the proper mindset will be nothing but good.

 

[Flapjack1976]

not any harder.... but just as hard...

the main problem is that these things are being sold OTC - i doubt there are adequate labels on the bottles either... this makes for a dangerous combo for unsuspecting newbies...

people that use gear (usually) know they are doing something illegal which can have many possible side effects... with a supplement, it can surprise you.

I agree with you there, but that's what we're here for, to research and learn about side-effects and whatnot, whether it be from gear or legal alternatives.

The separate problem of OTC stuff goes much farther than M1T, though...

 

[Ffactor]

How's the 1-test cycle going? I'm a low dose test user, might actually give this a shot.