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liver values are through the roof

bhuge

New member
i got a liver test done 2weeks after my cycle
my liver values are as follows
LD/246
AST/115
ALT/163

my cycle was nothing huge
test cyp 750mg week 1-6
deca 450mg week 1-6
winny 50mg ed week 4-8

i also used milkthistle every day and didn't touch
any alcohol

the doc told me they were abnormally high
even for someone who uses steroids and to come back
in a month and have another test
is it something i should be worried about and
can i do anything to get it back to normal
 
i'd be a little worried bro, the winny may have been a little ruff on the ole liver but you shouldnt have had any problems. definately follow up with the doc.
 
Milk thistle doesn't do anything for your liver if you are prone to suffer any liver desease.

The only thing that can help you is reducted gluthatione injectable.Shoot 600mg/ed for 20-30days.
 
a cycle like that shouldn't have such a massive impact on your liver values. You should get yourself checked out because the elevated values could be for some other reason.
 
AST and ALT as high as the 120's can occur from heavy lifting and muscle damage without steroid use. Best thing to do is to take 7-10 days off from lifting and have the values rechecked in a couple of weeks. You'll get a better idea of what is elevating them. A week off should cut those numbers by about 30 - 40 % if it is from muscle damage.

The ALT is a little high and is more liver specific.

Get them rechecked in a few weeks. But remember, even a crushing bicep session can drive those values way up.

W6
 
bhuge said:

AST/115
ALT/163


Normal ranges:

AST 10-40
ALT 5-68

Aug. 22/2001
My AST after oral methl-test use - 108
My ALT after oral methl-test use - 274

Nov. 5/2001
Minimal alcohol consumption, no pain relievers, drinking lots of water.
AST 125
ALT 116

It takes a long time for your liver to recover from that sort of abuse.
 
hehehe Italianboy

Italianboy said:
Milk thistle doesn't do anything for your liver if you are prone to suffer any liver desease.

The only thing that can help you is reducted gluthatione injectable.Shoot 600mg/ed for 20-30days.

words of wisdom......:)
 
I guess some people are just pre-disposed to this sort of liver enzyme elevation. I was once on a very heavy cycle, using anadrol test, d-bol ect. not all at the same time the whole time but I was on for about 10 of the 12 months of the year. I also had a nasty vicoden habit at the time and if anyone knows anything about vicoden the tylenol that is in the vicoden is far more liver toxic then any steroid. Esp. at the doses I was taking(I was taking 10 vicoden at a time at one point). Anyway I had a blood test and everything was normal. I was certain there would be some indication of liver damage or at least elevated enzymes but nothing. I was lucky as I did have a freind who almost died from liver damage by doing the same type of thing. I guess it all depends on your body.
 
I wouldn't be too worried. Those aren't that high. I've been seeing a liver specialist for my liver "problems". can't figure out why my enzymes are so high... Though the doc did assure me that steroids were not the cause of it.
 
Here is some info I found on the web:
6 step detox program:

This detoxification program, adapted from Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine (Prima) by Joseph Pizzorno, N.D., and Michael Murray, N.D., provides a plan for safe, gradual cleansing of the liver and gastrointestinal tract. This information is not meant as medical advice.

1. Consume a diet as natural as possible, high in fruits and vegetables and low in animal products.

2. Drink at least two quarts of distilled or purified water daily.

3. Ingest a high-potency vitamin and mineral formula daily.

4. Take silymarin (an extract from milk thistle) — a total of 70 to 210 mg. distributed over three times per day. Note that this dosage applies to standardized silymarin.

5. Take vitamin C: 1 gram three times per day.

6.Take a fiber supplement such as psyllium seed — 1 to 2 tablespoons at night before retiring.

More info:

7 Liver Cleansers
Despite the array of damaging substances presented daily to the liver, this organ has an amazing ability to restore itself. Listed below are some of the natural substances commonly used to help detoxify the body and support liver function and regeneration.

1. Milk thistle. Silymarin, a flavonoid (plant pigment) extracted from the milk thistle plant, protects the liver by inhibiting factors responsible for liver cell damage — free radicals and leukotrienes (a form of the hormone-
like substances called prostaglandins). Silymarin can also alter the structure of the outer walls of liver cells so poisons can't penetrate. In addition, silymarin stimulates protein synthesis of the liver cells, which helps the liver regenerate itself after damage, says herbalist Christopher Hobbs, L.Ac., in Milk Thistle — The Liver Herb (Botanica Press). Silymarin inhibits depletion of glutathione (one of the liver's most important antioxidant enzymes) induced by alcohol and other liver toxins.

2. Dandelion root. "The chief benefits of this herb are exerted upon the function of the liver. It has the capacity to clear obstructions and stimulate the liver to detoxify poison," says Michael Tierra, C.A., N.D., in The Way of Herbs (Washington Square Press). Dandelion is a diuretic, thus helping eliminate toxins from the body via the urine. It also helps stimulate bile flow. (Bile flow facilitates elimination.) Dandelion also helps release bile from the liver, important because if the liver doesn't eliminate bile, it can suffer damage. Much of the beneficial action of this herb on the liver and blood results from its high content of easily
assimilated minerals.

3. N-acetyl cysteine (NAC). NAC is a form of the amino acid cysteine converted to the important antioxidant and liver-supportive enzyme glutathione in the body. NAC has shown significant ability to enhance Phase II detoxification reactions in the liver.

4. Artichoke. Studies show that artichoke leaves contain compounds called caffeylquinic acids including cynarin, which have demonstrated liver-regenerating effects similar to milk thistle's (Arzneim-Forsch, 1968, as cited by Murray and Pizzorno).

5. Phospholipids (lecithin). Phospholipids, a form of fat, help maintain integrity of body cells including liver cells. Research conducted by Charles Lieber, M.D., of New York's Mt. Sinai School of Medicine indicates that the phospholipid phosphatidylcholine (PC), also known as lecithin, can help normalize bile function and regenerate damaged tissue. PC may be useful in treating hepatitis, a serious liver disease. In addition, PC protects the liver against choline deficiency. Choline, which is generally considered a vitamin, is essential for fat metabolism. It helps prevent the deposition of fats in the liver, guarding against fatty liver damage. PC also protects against damage from an array of toxic substances including alcohol and pharmaceutical medications.

6. Turmeric. This common spice helps regenerate liver cells and cleanse the liver of toxins. Turmeric also increases the production of bile and may help reduce liver inflammation, says Earl Mindell, R.Ph., Ph.D., in his book Herb Bible (Simon & Schuster). Turmeric has been shown to increase levels of two liver-supporting enzymes: glutathione-s-transferase (GST) and UDP glucuronyl transferase (UDPGT), important for the promotion of Phase II detoxification reactions (Plant Foods & Human Nutrition, 1993, vol. 44, no. 1). In addition, turmeric has been shown to lower cholesterol levels, Murray and Pizzorno say.

7. Diet. For optimum liver function, you should try to eat a diet rich in fiber and plant foods, low in refined sugar and fat, and as free from pesticides and pollutants as possible. Liver cleansing regimes typically emphasize consuming simple diets rich in fresh fruits and vegetables (naturally rich sources of the antioxidant vitamins and minerals used as liver enzyme co-factors) and free of animal foods, processed foods, and artificial food additives, preservatives or colorings.

If you consume alcohol, prescription or nonprescription drugs, take extra antioxidant nutrients and herbs to stimulate detoxification of these drugs. Supporting the liver is particularly important if your job involves applying pesticides, paints, solvents or toxic chemicals. Heavy use of Tylenol® (acetominophen), which destroys glutathione when combined with alcohol intake, also causes liver damage. If you're undergoing long-term medication, consult your health professional for information on how to protect and support your liver.

More Herbs for Internal Cleansing
Cleansing the blood and the intestinal tract while you cleanse the liver enhances your purification program. Blood can contain potentially dangerous substances such as
pesticides, herbicides, viral particles, yeast cells and bacteria, according to Christopher Hobbs in Foundations of Health (Botanica Press). Blood cleansers may stimulate increased blood flow through the liver, relieving congestion, and help eliminate wastes and toxins through the skin, kidneys, breath and bowels. These herbs help cleanse the blood:

Burdock is recommended primarily as a blood purifier, says Varro E. Tyler, Ph.D., in The Honest Herbal (Haworth Press). This herb helps rid the body of toxins through sweating and increased urine flow. Burdock promotes kidney function to help clear the blood of harmful acids. It contains iron, which carries oxygen from the tissue to the lungs.

Red clover helps cleanse the blood by eliminating metabolic waste products through the skin, kidneys, breath and bowels. It also increases the activity and efficiency of phagocytes, immune cells that engulf and remove wastes and organisms from the blood and mucus, according to Hobbs.

For cleaning the intestinal tract, use a gel-forming fiber such as psyllium seed or oat bran to prevent reabsorption of toxic chemicals dumped into the intestinal tract by the bile, Murray and Pizzorno say. Also, occasional use of a natural laxative may be helpful. Caution: Long-term use of any laxative may lead to habitual use.

Here are some natural intestinal cleansers:
Psyllium (guar gum) is used in most detoxification regimens as an intestinal binder and laxative. Psyllium is able to bind toxins released by cleansing practices and safely remove them from the body.

Senna, an herbal laxative that's used to speed elimination, works within 12 hours of ingestion through its biochemical triggering of peristalsis, the muscular contractions along the colon that lead to emptying the bowels, says David Hoffmann, B.Sc., M.N.I.M.H., in An Elders' Herbal (Healing Arts Press). Senna is commonly used in combination with psyllium to promote elimination of bound toxins.
 
If your doctor tell you your liver enzymes are high ask to look at the results yourself ,one time my doctor said mine were high i looked at it they were at the high end of normal big difference ,so always look at charts yourself some doctors are complete idiots and just looking for a reason to preach about the side effects of roid use.
 
Read Wilson6's Post

He is right on the money. Heavy weight training alone will elevate enzyme values significantly. The injectables you are using will NOT bump your values like that, the training will. If you want to prove it to yourself keep doing the juice and DON'T train for 8-10 days before your next test. Your values will be way down. I used to get tests done a lot and even when "off" enzyme levels were elavated as long as I trained hard. I finally met a couple of educated Doctors that knew what they were talking about. You can waste all the money you want on those voodoo magic liver detox supps, or you can prove it to yourself when you get tested. A new doctor may be in order. I'm not telling you to dismiss the issue, just giving you a way to help your doc diagnose. If that amount of injectables were actually the cause of your values something that is really hard on your liver like Tylenol would wreak you.

Defying Gravity
 
get a viral hepatitis profile....probably not alcohol (even though you said you didnt drink.....i believe you) cuz alcohol raises the AST.


T
 
i asked my doctor about this ? he said for someone who lifts weights to an extreme, expample-bodybuilders,powerlifters,football players ect. will always have a higher liver profile than the average person. he told me anyting under 300 (ALT) is fine. this doctor knows his shit. he helps alot of pro athletes. so not some doctor who thinks he knows everything about AAS. just because he 's a doctor. i would get checked for viral hepetitis also............
 
The best answer here comes from Italianboy

and you know why?
Because he and myself have proven that L-reduced Glutathione
works.
While Italianboy used the injectable, i used the pills.
You don't need a shitload of anything else with it, it works on hits own.
 
one other thing. FYI

Liver enzymes don't always tell the whole picture. If you are using orals throughout the year (esp. d-bol, anadrol, winny, methyl-T and halo), I'd have a liver ultrasound done once a year.

While this stuff is relatively rare, small hepatomas and peliosis hepatis can be present without elevations of liver enzymes. Most of the steroid related mass will resolve with cessation of the drug, but you need to know if they are there early. Once the hepatoma gets rolling, you're history. Peliosis may present clinically with an acute hemorrhage, not a good thing either. Some long-term users of winny and anadrol have bought it suddenly because of this.

So, if there is concern, a yearly US would be helpful.

W6
 
Do you know,dear guys,that all the stuff you tell to take for liver healt in some way go to rise glutatione level in the body?
And do you know that glutatione is produced by the liver for its healt and as a detox for all the bodY?
So take glutatione if you care about your liver.

And chec electroforesis of serum protein(Albumine,alpha1,2 ecc)and YGT(gamma gt).Those two values(ALT and AST)mean all and nothing at the same time.To have a full check of liver check the above I said.

XJeff_rys:I've never used the oral form of gluta.Is it any good?Is otc or need a script?
For what I know the oral form is less powerfull because you absorb less ammount.
 
Italianboy said:

XJeff_rys:I've never used the oral form of gluta.Is it any good?Is otc or need a script?
For what I know the oral form is less powerfull because you absorb less ammount.

I agree with you that the injectable should be better. You can overcome this (in a way) by using more orals compared to the injectables. Like 3-4 caps of 300 mgr.
No prescript needed. I buy it at the pharmacie otc.
But it is good.
 
Stay away from taking acetimenophen (Tylenol) with Alcohol, the combination of those two will send your liver values skyrocketing. Even if you take Tylenol the next day, like for a hang-over, it will mess up your liver. A lot of people don't know this, but it's absolutely true.
 
my bro has hep

here is his post:

Well its official I have Hep C. They say its type 1a of the virus and is the most treatable kind. the part i dont get so far is they dont seem very concerned about it. They are like we will decide what our next step is on your next visit(Dec5). it seems like y=there wont even be any treatment not too mention that my liver seems unaffected by the virus. They are going to do liver biopsy (sp) that is gonna suck becaus they have to stick a needle that will make a rediject seem freindly all the way into my liver to get a sample. Other than that I feel great! My body weight and strength are on the rise again I got down to around 190 after about four weeks of not being able to take protein shakes but I have been back on them now for about 2-1/2 weeks and back to trainig hard so my weight is somewhere around 200 and I feel strong. I have cahnged the volume in which i lift due to the lack of anabolics and it seems to be working well . I guess its realy too soon to tell but In a month if i havent gained at least 5 pounds i will have to make some changes.. other than that my enzymes are still steadily going down on their own and should soon be back to normal.



do you bro's ever wonder if all this is really worth it?
 
My cousin got Hep C from a needle stick at the hospital she works at. Went through 9 months of ribavirin + peginterferon alfa-2b. It wasn't easy, but she is cured.

I have a client just beginning treatment as well. Plenty of sides but he is hanging in there as well.

The biopsy will tell the story. The prognosis for Hep C is good.

W6
 
like i said a zillon times, over 20 years of using and being around guys using gear i never in my life heard of so many guys getting fucked up until i found this board and it seems it all comes from vet, mex shit and that fucking ip garbage....


use your heads guys..you probably are more worried about what octane gas you put in your car then what gear in your body..if you cant find or afford top human grade stuff then stay the fuck away from it
 
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