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liver protectants??
- Thread starter dbcooper
- Start date
enacer420nj
Well-known member
liv52 and tylers liver detox are top notch
Mavafanculo
New member
altho both have been reccomended for a long time, LIV-52 and milk thistle have too many inconclusive and negative studies re effectiveness
most notably, the latest meta-study on milk thistle (a study of alot of other studys) concluded that no benefit could be proven, and side effects could not be excluded.
n-Acetylcystiene and rALA, on the other hand, have consistently solid positive studys demonstrating liver protection and regeneration.
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as an example, 17aa stress is similar to alcohol stress on the liver - here are some abstracts on liv 52 and alcohol:
Natural and complementary therapies for substance use disorders.
Curr Opin Psychiatry. 2005 May;18(3):271-6. Dean AJ. Kids in Mind Research, Mater Child and Youth Mental Health Service and Mater Pharmacy Services, Mater Hospital, South Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
To review recent studies that have examined the efficacy of natural and complementary therapies as treatments for substance use disorders and their complications. Neither vitamin E nor Liv 52 had a useful effect in alcohol-related liver disease
Herbal medicines for liver diseases.
Dig Dis Sci. 2005 Oct;50(10):1807-12. Department of Hepatology, Postgraduate Institute of Medical Education and Research, Chandigarh, 160012, India.
Herbal medicines have been used in the treatment of liver diseases for a long time. A number of herbal preparations are available in the market. This article reviews four commonly used herbal preparations: (1) Phyllanthus, (2) Silybum marianum (milk thistle), (3) glycyrrhizin (licorice root extract), and (4) Liv 52 (mixture of herbs). Phyllanthus has a positive effect on clearance of HBV markers and there are no major adverse effects; there are no data from randomized controlled trials on clinically relevant outcomes, such as progression of chronic hepatitis to cirrhosis and/or liver cancer, and on survival. Silymarin does not reduce mortality and does not improve biochemistry and histology among patients with chronic liver disease; however, it appears to be safe and well tolerated. Stronger neominophagen C (SNMC) is a Japanese preparation that contains 0.2% glycyrrhizin, 0.1% cysteine, and 2% glyceine. SNMC does not have antiviral properties; it primarily acts as an anti-inflammatory or cytoprotective drug. It improves mortality in patients with subacute liver failure and improves liver functions in patients with subacute hepatic failure, chronic hepatitis, and cirrhosis with activity. SNMC does not reduce mortality among patients with cirrhosis with activity. SNMC may prevent the development of hepatocellular carcinoma in patients with chronic hepatitis C, however, prospective data are lacking. Liv 52, an Ayurvedic hepatoprotective agent, is not useful in the management of alcohol-induced liver disease.
Liv.52 in alcoholic liver disease: a prospective, controlled trial.
J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Jan;84(1):47-50. Department of Pharmacology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Kelaniya, PO Box 6, Thalagolla Road, Ragama, Sri Lanka.
Liv.52, a hepatoprotective agent of herbal origin, is used empirically for the treatment of alcoholic liver disease in Sri Lanka. We conducted a controlled trial to assess the efficacy of Liv.52 in patients with alcoholic liver disease. Patients with evidence of alcoholic liver disease attending outpatient clinics were included in a prospective, double blind, randomized, placebo controlled trial. During the trial period, 80 patients who fulfilled inclusion criteria were randomly assigned Liv.52 (cases; n = 40) or placebo (controls) the recommended dose of three capsules twice daily for 6 months. All patients underwent clinical examination (for which a clinical score was computed), and laboratory investigations for routine blood chemistry and liver function before commencement of therapy (baseline). Thereafter, clinical assessments were done monthly for 6 months, while laboratory investigations were done after 1 and 6 months of therapy. There was no significant difference in the age composition, alcohol intake and baseline liver function between the two groups. The two-sample t-test was used to analyze data obtained after 1 and 6 months of therapy against baseline values. There was no significant difference in clinical outcome and liver chemistry between the two groups at any time point. There were no reports of adverse effects attributable to the drug. Our results suggest that Liv.52 may not be useful in the management of patients with alcohol induced liver disease.
most notably, the latest meta-study on milk thistle (a study of alot of other studys) concluded that no benefit could be proven, and side effects could not be excluded.
n-Acetylcystiene and rALA, on the other hand, have consistently solid positive studys demonstrating liver protection and regeneration.
---
as an example, 17aa stress is similar to alcohol stress on the liver - here are some abstracts on liv 52 and alcohol:
Natural and complementary therapies for substance use disorders.
Curr Opin Psychiatry. 2005 May;18(3):271-6. Dean AJ. Kids in Mind Research, Mater Child and Youth Mental Health Service and Mater Pharmacy Services, Mater Hospital, South Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
To review recent studies that have examined the efficacy of natural and complementary therapies as treatments for substance use disorders and their complications. Neither vitamin E nor Liv 52 had a useful effect in alcohol-related liver disease
Herbal medicines for liver diseases.
Dig Dis Sci. 2005 Oct;50(10):1807-12. Department of Hepatology, Postgraduate Institute of Medical Education and Research, Chandigarh, 160012, India.
Herbal medicines have been used in the treatment of liver diseases for a long time. A number of herbal preparations are available in the market. This article reviews four commonly used herbal preparations: (1) Phyllanthus, (2) Silybum marianum (milk thistle), (3) glycyrrhizin (licorice root extract), and (4) Liv 52 (mixture of herbs). Phyllanthus has a positive effect on clearance of HBV markers and there are no major adverse effects; there are no data from randomized controlled trials on clinically relevant outcomes, such as progression of chronic hepatitis to cirrhosis and/or liver cancer, and on survival. Silymarin does not reduce mortality and does not improve biochemistry and histology among patients with chronic liver disease; however, it appears to be safe and well tolerated. Stronger neominophagen C (SNMC) is a Japanese preparation that contains 0.2% glycyrrhizin, 0.1% cysteine, and 2% glyceine. SNMC does not have antiviral properties; it primarily acts as an anti-inflammatory or cytoprotective drug. It improves mortality in patients with subacute liver failure and improves liver functions in patients with subacute hepatic failure, chronic hepatitis, and cirrhosis with activity. SNMC does not reduce mortality among patients with cirrhosis with activity. SNMC may prevent the development of hepatocellular carcinoma in patients with chronic hepatitis C, however, prospective data are lacking. Liv 52, an Ayurvedic hepatoprotective agent, is not useful in the management of alcohol-induced liver disease.
Liv.52 in alcoholic liver disease: a prospective, controlled trial.
J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Jan;84(1):47-50. Department of Pharmacology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Kelaniya, PO Box 6, Thalagolla Road, Ragama, Sri Lanka.
Liv.52, a hepatoprotective agent of herbal origin, is used empirically for the treatment of alcoholic liver disease in Sri Lanka. We conducted a controlled trial to assess the efficacy of Liv.52 in patients with alcoholic liver disease. Patients with evidence of alcoholic liver disease attending outpatient clinics were included in a prospective, double blind, randomized, placebo controlled trial. During the trial period, 80 patients who fulfilled inclusion criteria were randomly assigned Liv.52 (cases; n = 40) or placebo (controls) the recommended dose of three capsules twice daily for 6 months. All patients underwent clinical examination (for which a clinical score was computed), and laboratory investigations for routine blood chemistry and liver function before commencement of therapy (baseline). Thereafter, clinical assessments were done monthly for 6 months, while laboratory investigations were done after 1 and 6 months of therapy. There was no significant difference in the age composition, alcohol intake and baseline liver function between the two groups. The two-sample t-test was used to analyze data obtained after 1 and 6 months of therapy against baseline values. There was no significant difference in clinical outcome and liver chemistry between the two groups at any time point. There were no reports of adverse effects attributable to the drug. Our results suggest that Liv.52 may not be useful in the management of patients with alcohol induced liver disease.
POST CYCLE is the best. And EF sells it. Support the site!
StackedXXX
New member
Nelson Montana said:
ofcourse its the best, ur selling it
StackedXXX said:
Wrong bro. It has ingredients that are proven to be effective. You want to debate that, fine. You'll lose that one.
Nelson, I have always followed your advice with much success (Thank You). When it comes to supplements there is a lot of confusion and bogus stuff out there(Not refering to POST CYCLE I haven't tried it yet). I think other then reserching and following advice, one needs to try them and get blod work done to find out if it works. I have done this with some supps and developed my own opinion. Best way to go IMO.
fatbg said:
POST CYCLE contains many of the ingredients often recommended. (Milk Thistle etc) But it also contains pircoliv and that is not folklore or herbology. It's proven science. Here's an example.http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/112394534/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
This is why I get a little pissed when people think I'm just pimping a supplement. I'm not Ulter. I didn't buy this shit and then decide to sell it. I've researched this field for decades and put together the ingredients I found to be effective. THAT is why it works.
I'm going to use NAC, milk thisle, cranberry juice and rALA if I can get my hands on it for my next PCT (will be using orals, most probably anadrol 50)
fatbg said:
Wasn't directed at you bro. stacedxxx seemed to think I recommended it just for profit.
alcatraz: POST CYCLE also contains NAC and r-ala. Cranberey does nothing for liver. It's a mild diuretic and a mild urinary tonic.
Nelson Montana said:
Do you recommend using post cycle also for mild liver toxicity, i.e. after using creatine non-stop for more than 4-5 months?
Also, can I have a direct link to it. I'd like to read up on it a little plz.
the_alcatraz said:
Well, I'm sure you know creatine does nothing to restore the HPTA, it simply replaces some water in the muscles that is lost when you stop gear. Okay, at the risk of sounding promotional I'd then recommend two other products PC. BIG BLAST contains creatine P12 and plasma protein. Nothing better to maintain muscle than that. And VIGOR increases blood volume, which is also what steroids do.
These supplements were designed for guys who use gear which it's a hard sell anywhere outside of this community, but those who indulge can see the logic behind it.
No comment from stackedxxx? Here's a word of advice. If you want to start shit, be prepared to actually discuss the issue. That's what we do here. Insinuations, digs, knocks, and flippant remarks in general don't fly. Say what you mean. Mean what you say. Or don't say anything.
Nelson Montana said:
You misunderstood bro. I have been on creatine for a long time. Come to think about it, I think I've been on for more than 6 months. I want to stop creatine for a bit and was wondering if I should take anything for the liver since creatine is known to overwork the liver if you take it for an elongated period of time, or am I mistaken?
yourmomgoestocollege
Banned
Mava, I also saw this study but I am not sure you are comparing apples to apples here. Liver toxicity with alcoholics is a little different than a 17aa. I do agree that while nothing proves Liv52 is superior to any of the other products mentioned in this thread all I can add is personal experience from blood work.
My liver enzymes always appear to be in check and the doc doesn't even bring them up. I only use Liv52 and that is all I have ever used.
My liver enzymes always appear to be in check and the doc doesn't even bring them up. I only use Liv52 and that is all I have ever used.
Mavafanculo said:
Mavafanculo
New member
yourmomgoestocollege said:
whats the difference? i ask as an actual question not rhetorically.
both are toxins that stress the liver, and I'd think 17aa is harder on the liver if nothing else because of the cycles cumulative no-breaks nature
yourmomgoestocollege
Banned
Mavafanculo said:
I agree with that. But we go on and off cycles. Alcoholics cycle everyday all year. More long term damage; which at the end of the day, is what we are really trying to prevent. Right??? Not dying at 40 because we were stupid with our AAS use. This also depends on the definition of an alcoholic in the study.
the_alcatraz said:
Actually creatine is a little taxing to the kidneys. Everything goes though the liver but creatine isn't especially bad. It won't kill you but it' s still good to take a break now and then.
17AA is more than toxic. It actually stops the liver form doing what it wants to do which is very stressful and will break it down. This is why pirkoliv is so much better than Liv 52 for a gear user. It isn't so much detoxing the liver (which POST CYCLE does also) it's about regenerating cells and allowing for recovery. Pircoliv does that best. Of course, you can always use both.
Nelson Montana said:
Thx for the info bro.
