Lilith = Adams first wife

[foreigngirl]

She appears in mesopotamian texts as Lilu, jewish legends, in the sumerian tale of Gilgamesh (not the epic) as Kiskill-lilla and is associated with owls even in the Bible as in a releif from mesopotamians time. She usually is a demon that kills newborns as a punishment for leaving and not returning to Adam. She didnt want to be obediant to him, believing that she was equal because she is Gods creation too.

So, would it be possible that this is another story that is not included in the Bible aka apocrypha or just a myth outside it all on its own? At much later date when rabis were putting the Old Testament together might have taken that story out so only the obediant, submisive wife would stay there, so women stay in that role.

 

[redsamurai]

She appears in mesopotamian texts as Lilu, jewish legends, in the sumerian tale of Gilgamesh (not the epic) as Kiskill-lilla and is associated with owls even in the Bible as in a releif from mesopotamians time. She usually is a demon that kills newborns as a punishment for leaving and not returning to Adam. She didnt want to be obediant to him, believing that she was equal because she is Gods creation too.

So, would it be possible that this is another story that is not included in the Bible aka apocrypha or just a myth outside it all on its own? At much later date when rabis were putting the Old Testament together might have taken that story out so only the obediant, submisive wife would stay there, so women stay in that role.

that's precisely what happened......apparently adam didn't like his woman to be on top, which tells me adam was a trifling little sissy. Had he been a real man......well, women might be different today....

what got you on this story?

 

[redsamurai]

supposedly she still visits men at night and rides em hard till they pass out......oooooo, terrible!!......actually, where do I sign up.....

 

[jenscats5]

I think your very last sentence answered the whole thing.....

 

[foreigngirl]

I think your very last sentence answered the whole thing.....

I always make it easy like that


she is also said to be the first vampire in myths.

 

[foreigngirl]

supposedly she still visits men at night and rides em hard till they pass out......oooooo, terrible!!......actually, where do I sign up.....

omg, yes she was sexual and thats why she is an outcast, but damn!!!

 

[jenscats5]

I always make it easy like that


she is also said to be the first vampire in myths.

Vampire could be a symbol for the woman "bleeding the guy dry" by asking for equality......the Church (traditionally in a position of dominance over people) couldn't stand for the equal man & woman, otherwise how could the priests/bishops/cardinals be in a position of power??

 

[foreigngirl]

Vampire could be a symbol for the woman "bleeding the guy dry" by asking for equality......the Church (traditionally in a position of dominance over people) couldn't stand for the equal man & woman, otherwise how could the priests/bishops/cardinals be in a position of power??

yeap.....and they made her condamn Eve and her children out of jelaousy. And then again, even Eve was made into a sinner when she ate the Fruit of Knowledge.

And then at the dark ages again was the slaughter of mostly women condemnig them to be witches (Lilith). The church is intimadated by the seductivness of the womans body

 

[medical]

Then God made them to shave their asses. "Condamn" it!

 

[jenscats5]

yeap.....and they made her condamn Eve and her children out of jelaousy. And then again, even Eve was made into a sinner when she ate the Fruit of Knowledge.

And then at the dark ages again was the slaughter of mostly women condemnig them to be witches (Lilith). The church is intimadated by the seductivness of the womans body

The church is intimidated by anyone who "challenges" their doctrines.....

 

[medical]

The church is intimidated by anyone who "challenges" their doctrines.....

CONDAMN them!

 

[jenscats5]

CONDAMN them!

 

[foreigngirl]

The church is intimidated by anyone who "challenges" their doctrines.....

exactly. In pagan times nobody took prisoner the people that were astronomers or alchemists. They were sacred to the society. When the Roman Catholic Church took the high place in Europe, thats when humans were really just stepping in one place instead of going places with their views towards everything. Until few brave souls decided that their thirst for knowledge will stop at nothing - even prosecution

 

[musclemom]

My dear girl, too bad we don't have pollyannas, I would get you SUCH a book. But since we don't and I can't afford it anyway, you go get yourself a book entitled "The Great Cosmic Mother," by Monica Sjoo (available used on Amazon).

It explains it all hun, excellent book. But you have to accept that the Goddess was here, and revered, long before the God of the Jews was, so to speak.

 

[foreigngirl]

My dear girl, too bad we don't have pollyannas, I would get you SUCH a book. But since we don't and I can't afford it anyway, you go get yourself a book entitled "The Great Cosmic Mother," by Monica Sjoo (available used on Amazon).

It explains it all hun, excellent book. But you have to accept that the Goddess was here, and revered, long before the God of the Jews was, so to speak.

pollyanna???

That would be a great book to read! I just googled it

From what I have read and made parralells with, I am coming to a conclusion that the Yahweh is all mesopotamian and egyptian gods put all in one and the Bible has made a wonderfull crafted stories to fit the profile of an universal God that can be cruel as the mesopotamian ones and when calm as good and as rewarding as the egyptian Gods. The number 7 is used too many times and we know that 7 and 9 are typical numbers in myth creatings. There is the picture of Isis and Horus that is identical to Virgin Mary and baby Jesus. The fertility godesses were the most worshiped ones in ancient time. So, its too obvious that the creators of the Bible were stressing too much of riding the females and putting an end to the "matriarhal" society.

 

[medical]

pollyanna???

That would be a great book to read! I just googled it

From what I have read and made parralells with, I am coming to a conclusion that the Yahweh is all mesopotamian and egyptian gods put all in one and the Bible has made a wonderfull crafted stories to fit the profile of an universal God that can be cruel as the mesopotamian ones and when calm as good and as rewarding as the egyptian Gods. The number 7 is used too many times and we know that 7 and 9 are typical numbers in myth creatings. There is the picture of Isis and Horus that is identical to Virgin Mary and baby Jesus. The fertility godesses were the most worshiped ones in ancient time. So, its too obvious that the creators of the Bible were stressing too much of riding the females and putting an end to the "matriarhal" society.

Actually the tetragramicon god was the Isrealites most succesful war god originally.

 

[foreigngirl]

Actually the tetragramicon god was the Isrealites most succesful war god originally.

tell me more. I am not familliar with this. It sure sounds like a war God especcially in Genesis. When Jesus arrives it sounds more budhist than anything else.

 

[medical]

tell me more. I am not familliar with this. It sure sounds like a war God especcially in Genesis. When Jesus arrives it sounds more budhist than anything else.

Read "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong. Compares the origins of all the major "Gods" and how they share many of the same origins.

 

[foreigngirl]

Read "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong. Compares the origins of all the major "Gods" and how they share many of the same origins.

I am still reading "Testament" by John Romer. I'll get that book and the one MM recomended.

Just tell me in cliff notes, how can we talk if everyone sais - read this book and you will find out

 

[redsamurai]

it's all crap anyway folks......female gods, male gods....I mean c'mon....seriously, do you really think the maker can be identified by 'sex"? The old beleifs before christianity were equally as quaint......just happened to be more dominated by the feminine because "societies" were more matriarchal...so naturally the maker had to be feminine. In reality it's all crap.....the maker of all that is was and ever will be is a force that we cannot comprehend, and furthermore we commit "true" herecy when we try to put human characteristics on "IT". It's neither femine nor masculine.....IT JUST IS!! God damn, humans are the most trifling, silly, arrogant, ninny beings in the known universe. I sometimes have more respect for simple organisms......they may be simple, but they are effective in their simplicity. They have an order.....it may seem appalling to us at times what goes on in the animal world.....but there is order there. We try constantly to subvert that order and mold our universe to fit our own comfortable little mores......silliness.

 

[foreigngirl]

it's all crap anyway folks......female gods, male gods....I mean c'mon....seriously, do you really think the maker can be identified by 'sex"? The old beleifs before christianity were equally as quaint......just happened to be more dominated by the feminine because "societies" were more matriarchal...so naturally the maker had to be feminine. In reality it's all crap.....the maker of all that is was and ever will be is a force that we cannot comprehend, and furthermore we commit "true" herecy when we try to put human characteristics on "IT". It's neither femine nor masculine.....IT JUST IS!! God damn, humans are the most trifling, silly, arrogant, ninny beings in the known universe. I sometimes have more respect for simple organisms......they may be simple, but they are effective in their simplicity. They have an order.....it may seem appalling to us at times what goes on in the animal world.....but there is order there. We try constantly to subvert that order and mold our universe to fit our own comfortable little mores......silliness.

brilliant. I agree with that. Gods were molded and fit as it suited that certain time of history. I have been trying to say this to few friends and they think I am the crazy one. Miracles were either invented or made out of natural happenings. All with one purpose - to prove that their "God" is the right one

 

[redsamurai]

brilliant. I agree with that. Gods were molded and fit as it suited that certain time of history. I have been trying to say this to few friends and they think I am the crazy one. Miracles were either invented or made out of natural happenings. All with one purpose - to prove that their "God" is the right one

what is the name for someone that beleives in a higher power, beleives in something that created all this.....but doesn't beleive in silly little human inspired stories?? It's either Atheist or agnostic.....can't remember which one.....but I do beleive in a god, I just fully understand I'm next to nothing in this universe and that I can't possibly comprehend the slightest percentage......good to see someone else agrees. And yes, you will take ALOT of shit from people in your lifetime. I actually respect someone who is christian/muslim/jewish....whatever.......who "just is" with their beleifs. But it's a tell when someone tries to go to war with you because you've pointed out that their religion can not be intellectually proven on any level.....it requires "pure faith"......and I have nothing but respect for that. But when someone tries to prove this religion or that religion to me.....and expects me to set aside my god given ability for reason and rationality just to appease their sensibilities......I get REALLY beligerant....probably more than I should. I also get real toasty when this society tries to mold my reality based on predominant theology. Basically I'm saying we're all in a box which we don't belong in, and I'm trying fight out of it while everyone else is clawing at my shoes to pull me down off the wall.....

 

[foreigngirl]

what is the name for someone that beleives in a higher power, beleives in something that created all this.....but doesn't beleive in silly little human inspired stories?? It's either Atheist or agnostic.....can't remember which one.....but I do beleive in a god, I just fully understand I'm next to nothing in this universe and that I can't possibly comprehend the slightest percentage......good to see someone else agrees. And yes, you will take ALOT of shit from people in your lifetime. I actually respect someone who is christian/muslim/jewish....whatever.......who "just is" with their beleifs. But it's a tell when someone tries to go to war with you because you've pointed out that their religion can not be intellectually proven on any level.....it requires "pure faith"......and I have nothing but respect for that. But when someone tries to prove this religion or that religion to me.....and expects me to set aside my god given ability for reason and rationality just to appease their sensibilities......I get REALLY beligerant....probably more than I should. I also get real toasty when this society tries to mold my reality based on predominant theology. Basically I'm saying we're all in a box which we don't belong in, and I'm trying fight out of it while everyone else is clawing at my shoes to pull me down off the wall.....

I believe in A God or something spiritual that is all around us. For me there is no certain God. In my eyes muslims, jewish and christians all worship the one and same God, only their prophets and idiology is different. I was raised russian orthodox and grew up and lived in socialistic Yugoslavia. I am not baptised even though I started believing in something out there. Now, when I studied more on that subject, I dont care about baptisams, dont care to give money to the church for something that is purelly symbolic. I would agree with the gnostic gospels about Jesus - God is within us all, we are all sons and daughters of God and we will find him only when we find that inner peace within ourselfs. No selfish and jelauos Gods to worship. Just do good and you wil receive good - karma. I cant say anymore what religion I would be right now. I guess none. I am telling people about all so called miracles and explaining them with all the natural causes, telling them all things that are so impossible to be true and the answer I get is that God can make anything happen. So, I gave up and just started keeping it in myself. Until time like this comes and I need to share oppinions with someone

 

[redsamurai]

I believe in A God or something spiritual that is all around us. For me there is no certain God. In my eyes muslims, jewish and christians all worship the one and same God, only their prophets and idiology is different. I was raised russian orthodox and grew up and lived in socialistic Yugoslavia. I am not baptised even though I started believing in something out there. Now, when I studied more on that subject, I dont care about baptisams, dont care to give money to the church for something that is purelly symbolic. I would agree with the gnostic gospels about Jesus - God is within us all, we are all sons and daughters of God and we will find him only when we find that inner peace within ourselfs. No selfish and jelauos Gods to worship. Just do good and you wil receive good - karma. I cant say anymore what religion I would be right now. I guess none. I am telling people about all so called miracles and explaining them with all the natural causes, telling them all things that are so impossible to be true and the answer I get is that God can make anything happen. So, I gave up and just started keeping it in myself. Until time like this comes and I need to share oppinions with someone

you seem to be a good girl.......yugoslavia huh? what part? My mother, adopted mother, grew up in prague. I know that's czechoslovakia, but the people are similiar anyway.....

 

[foreigngirl]

you seem to be a good girl.......yugoslavia huh? what part? My mother, adopted mother, grew up in prague.

Praga, huh I grew up in Macedonia, Skopje

 

[redsamurai]

Praga, huh I grew up in Macedonia, Skopje

macedonia eh? alexanders old stomping grounds, right? he's my namesake......

 

[foreigngirl]

macedonia eh? alexanders old stomping grounds, right? he's my namesake......

Alexander dads birth place Wonderfull name, wouldnt you say?

 

[redsamurai]

Alexander dads birth place Wonderfull name, wouldnt you say?

well, yeah.....I guess.....why do you ask?

 

[foreigngirl]

well, yeah.....I guess.....why do you ask?

I was teasing the fact that you said he was your namesake. But hey, he tried to prove that he is a god (back to topic )

 

[redsamurai]

I was teasing the fact that you said he was your namesake. But hey, he tried to prove that he is a god (back to topic )

well of course.....all alexanders are gods.... he seemed to be awful sweet on man ass though....

 

[foreigngirl]

well of course.....all alexanders are gods.... he seemed to be awful sweet on man ass though....

all alexanders are sweet on mans ass lol

 

[redsamurai]

all alexanders are sweet on mans ass lol

well, I guess there was that "one" time......but.......I wasn't myself.......I swear!!!.....lol

I've actually never run into another alexander my age.....some kids yes, and a couple old men.....but never anyone from my gen.....

 

[WODIN]

Lilith got ditched by Adam, its true. She became Mrs. Clause and gave birth to all the elves. Her favorite was the keebler elf who was banished from the land of Christmas because his cookies were slowing down toy production. You see the elves were getting too fat to reach the work tables. Something had to be done.

 

[musclemom]

it's all crap anyway folks......female gods, male gods....I mean c'mon....seriously, do you really think the maker can be identified by 'sex"? The old beleifs before christianity were equally as quaint......just happened to be more dominated by the feminine because "societies" were more matriarchal...so naturally the maker had to be feminine. In reality it's all crap.....the maker of all that is was and ever will be is a force that we cannot comprehend, and furthermore we commit "true" herecy when we try to put human characteristics on "IT". It's neither femine nor masculine.....IT JUST IS!! God damn, humans are the most trifling, silly, arrogant, ninny beings in the known universe. I sometimes have more respect for simple organisms......they may be simple, but they are effective in their simplicity. They have an order.....it may seem appalling to us at times what goes on in the animal world.....but there is order there. We try constantly to subvert that order and mold our universe to fit our own comfortable little mores......silliness.

Pretty much the pagan philosophy, but as mortal humans we are limited. We are utterly incapable of grasping the magnitude of the creative force, so we have the pantheons that we revere (as opposed to worship/grovel/beg to) that embody particular characteristics that we need addressed in our lives.

My particular favorite line from the Old Testatment is "For I am a jealous God." Can you think of a pettier emotion than jealousy? Can you imagine the creator of the universe being jealous?

The Israelites were interacting with the Egyptians at about the time that Eqypt was transferring from Mother (moon) Goddess worship to Father (sun)God/War God worship. Moses was the big lawgiver of the Jews, he was raised in the household of Ramses, he brought the Egyptian philosophies over to the Jews with his own twist (alright, here's a good one, everyone remembers the Jews made a golden calf, right? Did you ever wonder WHY a calf? Because Hathor was a cow goddess of fertility, primarily a deity of Upper Egypt and her divine son was the god Ihy). My point is the religions get assimilated and mutated according to the cultural needs.

Religions based on fear have a high rate of success (high motivating factor). Now while Jehovah worship isn't the SCARIEST of all religions I've heard of, timing had a lot to do with it's success, primarily in the fact that the Jews had a written language. Most goddess worship is pretty kind/compassionate, and based on oral traditions.

Much of the imagery in the Old Testament, particularly stuff in Genesis, is lifted RIGHT out of the Israelites hatred of goddess worshipping cultures. The snake, the apple, the tree, those are all sacred to the goddess that was worshipped in that region.

 

[foreigngirl]

Timing, MM, was the key. The cult of Jehova started with the idea of unified nation to defend themselfs from foreign attacks - so there is a unified god. With it came pure nation - no foreign marriages, so incest was justified. They fought with armies, but also with thier gods and it made difference which god is gonna be seen as the "biggest" one. The people from Damscus and Moab were also worshipping God named Jehova, among the rest of the crew. In Genesis with the creation Jehova created Mesopotamia. 7 days in Geneses, 7 generations of Gods in Ennuma Elish that created the world. Genesis screams of old mesopotamian myths, Exodus screems of Egyptian ones. Moses flowing in that basket as a baby is an egyptian characteristic, not mesopotamian or canaanite or israeli. Moses has egyptian name too. Samson is so similar to Hercules with his monsterish strength and being swerved off the path from a woman

 

[musclemom]

Timing, MM, was the key. The cult of Jehova started with the idea of unified nation to defend themselfs from foreign attacks - so there is a unified god. With it came pure nation - no foreign marriages, so incest was justified. They fought with armies, but also with thier gods and it made difference which god is gonna be seen as the "biggest" one. The people from Damscus and Moab were also worshipping God named Jehova, among the rest of the crew. In Genesis with the creation Jehova created Mesopotamia. 7 days in Geneses, 7 generations of Gods in Ennuma Elish that created the world. Genesis screams of old mesopotamian myths, Exodus screems of Egyptian ones. Moses flowing in that basket as a baby is an egyptian characteristic, not mesopotamian or canaanite or israeli. Moses has egyptian name too. Samson is so similar to Hercules with his monsterish strength and being swerved off the path from a woman

Honey, you will LOVE "The Great Cosmic Mother," you've already GOT a lot of the information, this just serve to tie a few loose ends up for you.

You know, you're VERY, VERY knowlegable about the roots of modern religion, I've gotta ask, what are your beliefs?

 

[foreigngirl]

Honey, you will LOVE "The Great Cosmic Mother," you've already GOT a lot of the information, this just serve to tie a few loose ends up for you.

You know, you're VERY, VERY knowlegable about the roots of modern religion, I've gotta ask, what are your beliefs?

oh, I am soooo getting that book

Thank you sweety. Thats my passion, I love researching how religions came to be and how they intermingled with one another and created todays creations of pagan and "modern" religions. I dont know, sweets, I grew up as russian orthodox, but with each book I read (I check out the author first, cuz I dont want to fill my head up with imagenary writings, like "The life of St Issa") I lean towards the gnostic gospels - god is within us, we are all sons and daughters of god, do good and you will receive good - karma

 

[musclemom]

oh, I am soooo getting that book

Thank you sweety. Thats my passion, I love researching how religions came to be and how they intermingled with one another and created todays creations of pagan and "modern" religions. I dont know, sweets, I grew up as russian orthodox, but with each book I read (I check out the author first, cuz I dont want to fill my head up with imagenary writings, like "The life of St Issa") I lean towards the gnostic gospels - god is within us, we are all sons and daughters of god, do good and you will receive good - karma

You little pagan you

You might find study of the Qabala interesting, as well. Can't recommend any specific books, but keep it in the back of your mind. It addresses concepts of the nature of the universe as opposed to a "GOD" figure. I'm literally JUST getting started in my introduction to it so I honestly can't explain it more than that. There aren't any specific books to read, you just find one that you find approachable and go from there. This website is pretty cool, too:

http://www.borndigital.com/tree/index.html

This is seriously heady shit though, and don't let the fact Madonna made some noises about it put you off. People spend entire lifetimes learning about Qabala and still find more to learn.

 

[foreigngirl]

You little pagan you

You might find study of the Qabala interesting, as well. Can't recommend any specific books, but keep it in the back of your mind. It addresses concepts of the nature of the universe as opposed to a "GOD" figure. I'm literally JUST getting started in my introduction to it so I honestly can't explain it more than that. There aren't any specific books to read, you just find one that you find approachable and go from there. This website is pretty cool, too:

http://www.borndigital.com/tree/index.html

This is seriously heady shit though, and don't let the fact Madonna made some noises about it put you off. People spend entire lifetimes learning about Qabala and still find more to learn.

lol......I will try to look it up on the internet first before I purchase any books. I am fascinated what the ancients knew about the nature. Especially all those Stonehedge-like buildings in Britain and Ireland, Mayas etc. It was all about the Cosmos

 

[jenscats5]

My dear girl, too bad we don't have pollyannas, I would get you SUCH a book. But since we don't and I can't afford it anyway, you go get yourself a book entitled "The Great Cosmic Mother," by Monica Sjoo (available used on Amazon).

It explains it all hun, excellent book. But you have to accept that the Goddess was here, and revered, long before the God of the Jews was, so to speak.

Ah yes.....in ancient times women were revered for their fertility and people prayed to the Goddess.....waaaaay before God as we know Him today.....

MM - I SO need to get that book too....

 

[musclemom]

Ah yes.....in ancient times women were revered for their fertility and people prayed to the Goddess.....waaaaay before God as we know Him today.....

MM - I SO need to get that book too....

 

[jenscats5]

^^ Reminds me of a fiction book I really like about Wicca called "Cat Magic" or something goofy like that.....

 

[musclemom]

^^ Reminds me of a fiction book I really like about Wicca called "Cat Magic" or something goofy like that.....

I miss reading for pleasure, I have so many books I need to get through for study purposes I just can't justify reading for fun anymore

 

[jenscats5]

I miss reading for pleasure, I have so many books I need to get through for study purposes I just can't justify reading for fun anymore

I like to cuz it makes me relaxed & sleepy.....