Leukemia and Steriods

[spastic_gramps]

I use to lurk here several years ago when I ran my first cycle. It was Cyp and EQ and it was great. This was back when I was in college and 22. Since then I maintained what I had and never ran anymore cycles. My stats were 5'8, 185lbs, and around 10-11%bf. I was happy with my body and maintained it naturally.

Feb. 2006 I was diagnosed with Acute Myeloid Leukemia and have just wrapped up 10 months of grueling chemo. If anyone has ever had any experience with cancer or has known someone who has they know that chemo can wreak absolute hell on your body. After my intial hospitalization I had lost 40lbs. I looked like I was back in highschool. Throughout the chemo I basically sat around and ate. I'm now 180lbs with about 18%bf. I have just started getting back into the gym doing some cardio and light machine work. I'll eventually work my way back into my split and free weights. I consider myself knowledgable about diet and lifting and know what my body responds best to so I'm very optimistic about were I'm going to get naturally.

However, a year or two down the road I may consider doing another cycle. I would first need to satisfy my concerns about the steriods reactivating the cancer gene (I had an inverted 16 that caused my leukemia). With leukemia being a disease of the bone marrow and thus blood I would think that since anabolics effect your blood supply that you would also be susceptible reactivating the cancer cell growth. If anyone has any ideas or knowledge of this I'd love to know.

BTW my chemo was a success. I've been in remission since my first round with no traceable cancer left in my body. While AML has a death rate of 80% in two years inverted 16 AML is one of the most cureable acute leukemias.

 

[JZ1276]

I use to lurk here several years ago when I ran my first cycle. It was Cyp and EQ and it was great. This was back when I was in college and 22. Since then I maintained what I had and never ran anymore cycles. My stats were 5'8, 185lbs, and around 10-11%bf. I was happy with my body and maintained it naturally.

Feb. 2006 I was diagnosed with Acute Myeloid Leukemia and have just wrapped up 10 months of grueling chemo. If anyone has ever had any experience with cancer or has known someone who has they know that chemo can wreak absolute hell on your body. After my intial hospitalization I had lost 40lbs. I looked like I was back in highschool. Throughout the chemo I basically sat around and ate. I'm now 180lbs with about 18%bf. I have just started getting back into the gym doing some cardio and light machine work. I'll eventually work my way back into my split and free weights. I consider myself knowledgable about diet and lifting and know what my body responds best to so I'm very optimistic about were I'm going to get naturally.

However, a year or two down the road I may consider doing another cycle. I would first need to satisfy my concerns about the steriods reactivating the cancer gene (I had an inverted 16 that caused my leukemia). With leukemia being a disease of the bone marrow and thus blood I would think that since anabolics effect your blood supply that you would also be susceptible reactivating the cancer cell growth. If anyone has any ideas or knowledge of this I'd love to know.

BTW my chemo was a success. I've been in remission since my first round with no traceable cancer left in my body. While AML has a death rate of 80% in two years inverted 16 AML is one of the most cureable acute leukemias.

I am approaching my 5th year of remission from Hodgkins which was diagnosed in the final stage (inc. bone marrow). Since then I have run 3 cycles in the last year and have been fine. I'm not too sure about using shortly after going into remission, however in 2-3 years you should be safe. Next time you go to get your blood count, you should ask your doc. BTW, congratulations on the remission.

 

[c3bodybuilding]

Congrats on being in remission. I think the best bet is to talk to an open minded doctor about this. I wouldn't want to give advice that might hurt you. Stay safe and in good health. Welcome back to the boards.

 

[bigcats]

I wa diagonesed will all-pre b 17 years ago. I went throgh three years of chemo. I survived and had a healthy baby, I recently hoohed up with a hrt clinic. MY hormone growth and thyroid was very low. I went on testosterone shots thyroid and growth. I fell like a new man. I recomend you wait till you are done with chemo and then consult with a hrt clinic. good luck

 

[Alpine`]

bump

 

[LoneTree]

Most malignancies are uncontrolled growth of cells.
AAS is growth promoting factor for many cell lines, including blood forming cells.
Estrogen is biggest risk factor for breast cancer (growth promoting factor for breast).
Growth hormone is medically contraindicated to be taken if someone has ANY TYPE of cancer.
I would be very careful about AAS if I have history of any type of malignancy.

 

[Alpine`]

I had a benign bone growth (lesion) in the center of my upper arm bone. No biopsy or surgery was required (ruled out by advanced imaging). I even had a full body scan to check for any other hot spots - all clear. It's small, it doesn't compromise bone strength or anything like that. We only noticed it after X-rays for an unrelated muscle tear (turned out very minor). I guess they are fairly common in young adults but go unnoticed. It's thought they may occur during periods of rapid growth or trauma to the bone. They are seen in the long bones of the leg a lot (I guess). It was speculated that it was actually regressing although 9 months later it appeared the same size (no smaller, no larger). Anyway, it has always been on the back of my mind. I've run some Epistane since then but thats about it. It's a known anti-cancer treatment in Japan but only for its anti-estrogen properties in breast cancer. For my scenario it is still an androgen which is never good with abnormal cell growth.

Am I pushing my luck with any hormone use? I have no family history of cancer or anything. This was all about ~2 years ago and so far so good. I haven't had anymore imaging or X-rays since the second (9 month) checkup. I don't think this qualifies as a cancer risk but ANY kind of growth like this makes me uneasy.

Maybe there are some experts somewhere out there that could chime in? Hell, anyone with some informed opinion would be welcomed.

 

[Advisor_x]

Bro,

You made it, why mess..........

 

[Alpine`]

Bro,

You made it, why mess..........

Are you referring to him or me? In his case, yes, he dodged a bullet.

But in my case Im not sure it's exactly like I "dodged cancer". For example, a friend dropped a dumbbell on his foot. It traumatized the foot bone(s) and a few years later he ended up getting some strange bone growth on the top of his foot where it landed. The Doctors told him it was a benign growth aka lesion and they removed it with minor surgery. So technically, this too was a bone tumor. I wouldn't consider him to be at risk for developing Cancer due to this. My scenario is not directly analogous but you see what I am saying...

I just wish I have more knowledge on this area.

 

[LoneTree]

I had a benign bone growth (lesion) in the center of my upper arm bone. No biopsy or surgery was required (ruled out by advanced imaging). I even had a full body scan to check for any other hot spots - all clear. It's small, it doesn't compromise bone strength or anything like that. We only noticed it after X-rays for an unrelated muscle tear (turned out very minor). I guess they are fairly common in young adults but go unnoticed. It's thought they may occur during periods of rapid growth or trauma to the bone. They are seen in the long bones of the leg a lot (I guess). It was speculated that it was actually regressing although 9 months later it appeared the same size (no smaller, no larger). Anyway, it has always been on the back of my mind. I've run some Epistane since then but thats about it. It's a known anti-cancer treatment in Japan but only for its anti-estrogen properties in breast cancer. For my scenario it is still an androgen which is never good with abnormal cell growth.

Am I pushing my luck with any hormone use? I have no family history of cancer or anything. This was all about ~2 years ago and so far so good. I haven't had anymore imaging or X-rays since the second (9 month) checkup. I don't think this qualifies as a cancer risk but ANY kind of growth like this makes me uneasy.

Maybe there are some experts somewhere out there that could chime in? Hell, anyone with some informed opinion would be welcomed.

There are practically no medical studies with AAS, so all information is a matter of opinion, just an intelligent guess.
A benign tumor (except for BPH) is most likely not a contraindication to use of AAS or androgens.
Majority of people have some form of benign tumors (lipomas, warts, etc).

 

[Varga]

I use to lurk here several years ago when I ran my first cycle. It was Cyp and EQ and it was great. This was back when I was in college and 22. Since then I maintained what I had and never ran anymore cycles. My stats were 5'8, 185lbs, and around 10-11%bf. I was happy with my body and maintained it naturally.

Feb. 2006 I was diagnosed with Acute Myeloid Leukemia and have just wrapped up 10 months of grueling chemo. If anyone has ever had any experience with cancer or has known someone who has they know that chemo can wreak absolute hell on your body. After my intial hospitalization I had lost 40lbs. I looked like I was back in highschool. Throughout the chemo I basically sat around and ate. I'm now 180lbs with about 18%bf. I have just started getting back into the gym doing some cardio and light machine work. I'll eventually work my way back into my split and free weights. I consider myself knowledgable about diet and lifting and know what my body responds best to so I'm very optimistic about were I'm going to get naturally.

However, a year or two down the road I may consider doing another cycle. I would first need to satisfy my concerns about the steriods reactivating the cancer gene (I had an inverted 16 that caused my leukemia). With leukemia being a disease of the bone marrow and thus blood I would think that since anabolics effect your blood supply that you would also be susceptible reactivating the cancer cell growth. If anyone has any ideas or knowledge of this I'd love to know.

BTW my chemo was a success. I've been in remission since my first round with no traceable cancer left in my body. While AML has a death rate of 80% in two years inverted 16 AML is one of the most cureable acute leukemias.

THis is just an opinion,
when you have growth in your body that;s hard to control it is not a good idea to use AAS, Igf-1 or HGH without a doctor's supervision. It is a risk, even though others say they cycled with no issues after chemo I would be worried. The only thing that might be a viable option is a lower test cycle. Since test is produced by your body anyway at 200-300mg EW should be ok. Again, the risk /reward here is not in your favor. Wait few years as some here suggested then make a decission. I like the HRT avenue better because you will use low amounts of test in a controled environment rather than a quick growth spur.
Good luck

 

[Alpine`]

In spastic_gramps's case I DO think this would be asking for trouble. As for my scenario, I really don't think so. Perhaps I just don't want to accept it though. However, my case is a bit different. Keep the informed opinions coming please...

 

[Alpine`]

bump

 

[solidspine]

I would do

Primo and Test E, and see how much you grow,


The gear is not going to reactivate your cancer,


You have lost a lot of muscle and need to consider your overall health, muscle being only one part of the equation.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

pharmacist

i would talk to your oncologist. theyll say "DONT DO IT!!!!" of course, but then tell them taht youre going to do it anyway, but want a frank academic opinion of the risk youre facing.

if a cancer is steroid dependent, using roids is like adding petrol to a fire, and if there are a couple cancer cells that have survived, theyll grow like hell and youre back where you started, looking at another hundred grand worth of chemo.

its a serious decision. do your homework. DONT take the advice of random guys on an internet board about this, when good medical advice is available for a measly doctors fee.

except my advice of course, becasue...im excellent

 

[Alpine`]

I think my main question is: Has there been there definitive proof that androgens speed of the spread/mutation of all (or most) cancers (specifically). Or, if not, what specific types of cancer do androgens accelerate. Or should we conclude since AAS speeds up so many processes within the body that it can only accelerate any cell growth whether it be normal or cancerous mutation.

We know there is no proven correlation between AAS and cancer. However, I'm afraid certain cancers could be greatly accelerated by androgens. I'm trying to figure out which kinds and how strong that link is. I was hoping someone had some pubmeds or something on hand. Either that or an expert... the odds of that on here are about none.

I clearly had some abnormal bone growth in my arm bone. Although it was benign (not cancerous), Its still not a good thing. If it were to keep growing, or start growing again, It could lead to some very serious surgery. But if there is no possible link between its growth and androgens then it's not really an issue. This is what I'm trying to figure out.

 

[Varga]

I know what you saying bro but anybody with that kind of expertise is hard to find and most likely would not be on this board killing time. look for articles dealing with these issues you have and make an educated decission.

 

[bigrand]

pharmacist

i would talk to your oncologist. theyll say "DONT DO IT!!!!" of course, but then tell them taht youre going to do it anyway, but want a frank academic opinion of the risk youre facing.

if a cancer is steroid dependent, using roids is like adding petrol to a fire, and if there are a couple cancer cells that have survived, theyll grow like hell and youre back where you started, looking at another hundred grand worth of chemo.

its a serious decision. do your homework. DONT take the advice of random guys on an internet board about this, when good medical advice is available for a measly doctors fee.

except my advice of course, becasue...im excellent

Id be a little leary....
Your cancer is not a hormone dependant cancer, your mutations are already done and AAS wont cause it to return or a remutation or something like that.....thing is, some AAS stimulate RBC production, im not sure to the extent of WBC stimulation....but if it does, you will be stimulating the production of those already malignant cells. You dont really want to overstimulate that marrow, those mailgnant cell lines are likely still there, though in minimal numbers.

 

[Alpine`]

bump - I wonder how much something like Epistane (or other OTC designers) would stimulate RBC/marrow? In my case, the previously stable (not growing, possibly shrinking) benign cyst (aka, growth, tumor) originates from the center of the upper arm bone. I would assume marrow plays some role. As long as it stayed the same or slowly shrunk (which is common), it has zero effect on me and does not compromise the bone strength in any way. I don't know enough about this area to even make very educated assumptions. AAS use of any kind may have absolutely no effect whatsoever for this type of a benign growth.

 

[solidspine]

I think my main question is: Has there been there definitive proof that androgens speed of the spread/mutation of all (or most) cancers (specifically). Or, if not,

Unfortunately not, or fortunately not, either way these studies have not been conducted

 

[georgie24]

i would not risk it

 

[bigrand]

Actually, it is well known that there are some cancers that ARE greatly affected by hormones, cause much greater growth....ie, prostate and androgens and breast and estrogen/progesterone (HER 1 and 2 genes).
WBCs wouldnt be, no androgen receptor, but they can stimulate the marrow to pump out red cells quicker...perhaps WBCs as well, dont know enough about that specificly...

 

[Alpine`]

Bump

 

[spastic_gramps]

Wow. I had forgotten about this thread. I just had my third year biopsy and everything is clear. My prognosis is excellent.

I haven't done anything to this point. Over the past several months I've been training and focusing on getting my diet dialed in. I've made some pretty good progress. I'm 5'8 168lbs ~12%. I"ve been cutting calories keeping it pretty clean lately.

Maybe one day down the road (30yr old) I'll look into this but I have a lot I can do natty till then. I miss that first cycle though, man lol. Still enjoy coming to the boards for inspiration.

 

[spastic_gramps]

Actually, it is well known that there are some cancers that ARE greatly affected by hormones, cause much greater growth....ie, prostate and androgens and breast and estrogen/progesterone (HER 1 and 2 genes).
WBCs wouldnt be, no androgen receptor, but they can stimulate the marrow to pump out red cells quicker...perhaps WBCs as well, dont know enough about that specificly...

One day I'm going to bring it up with my doctor. He is pretty opened minded and I've been with him for a while. He "gets" me lol. I'm not going to even think about it for a few years.

They had me on a huge dose of Prednisone for a long time to combat the Graph vs Host Disease (GVHD) post transplant. I was on tons of pain pills and other meds and basically seriously fucked up. Prednisone is a catabolic steroid. I had horrible wasting syndrome. But I wasn't getting better. I was addicted to the pain meds too.

It wasn't until I convinced by parents (my caregivers) to allow me to start smoking good herb (weed) that I started to get better. I was very frank with my doctors about what I was doing. It's a good drug therapy for cancer patients. Definitely not legal where I'm from. My transplant doctor at MD Anderson while taken a back was very cool about it. He would always come in after that and tell me. "You keep doing what you are doing!" with a big grin.

So, they know what kind of off the wall questions to expect from me. If for nothing more than curiosity.

 

[billjr]

I was diagnosed in Feb 05 with acute lymphoblastic leukemia. The treatment consisted of two years of chemo. Six months of intensive chemo and 18 months of maintenence chemo. I lost about 15 lbs during the two years. I was able to train during the maintenence phase, went back to work part time, had a ruptured colon at the 18 month mark. Surgery a colostmy bag for ten months, surgery to remove the bag, I was still able to train with the bag and maintain some normality. I had a remission of 11 months when the leukemia relapsed. I went into Dana Farber at 190 lbs in Jan 08. I spent 5 months on my back two intensive rounds of chemo, 9 rounds of radiation and Bone marrow transplant. In June 08 I left the hospital at a 130 lbs. A grand total of 75 lbs lost, and cancer weight loss is mostly muscle tissue, it is called cancer cachexia. As of now I weigh between 142 to 145 lbs. People who have transplants often have chronic graft vs host disease this is promulgated by Tumor Necrosis Factor-alpha or TNF-a a highly catabolic cytokinine. This prevents muscle protein synthesis/accrual. This is tough to take as I have been out of work for three years now and have no strength, energy or a life so to speak. I often refer to muscular development magazine with the article on Dennis Newman. According to Dennis, he received testosterone and anabolic steroids during his treatment phase. He then went on to compete in 4 pro bodybuilding competitions. This is unbelievable to me, with the use of anabolic steroids he was able to return to a normal life! Was he lucky or do anabolic steroids have any effect on leukemia????? Note search on pub med oxandrolone and cancer cachexia. There is some research suggesting that this can be used safely with some type of cancers. Nothing however on Bone Marrow transplants.

 

[billjr]

Background: Cachexia is a complex metabolic syndrome associated with many chronic or end-stage diseases, especially cancer, and is characterized by loss of muscle with or without loss of fat mass. The management of cachexia is a complex challenge that should address the different causes underlying this clinical event with an integrated or multimodal treatment approach targeting the different factors involved in its pathophysiology.
Aims and Objectives : The purpose of this article was to review the current medical treatment of cancer-related cachexia, in particular focusing on combination therapy and ongoing research.
Results : Among the treatments proposed in the literature for cancer-related cachexia, some proved to be ineffective, namely, cyproheptadine, hydrazine, metoclopramide, and pentoxifylline. Among effective treatments, progestagens are currently considered the best available treatment option for cancer-related cachexia, and they are the only drugs approved in Europe. Drugs with a strong rationale that have failed or have not shown univocal results in clinical trials so far include eicosapentaenoic acid, cannabinoids, bortezomib, and anti-TNF-alpha MoAb. Several emerging drugs have shown promising results but are still under clinical investigation (thalidomide, selective cox-2 inhibitors, ghrelin mimetics, insulin, oxandrolone, and olanzapine).
Conclusions : To date, despite several years of coordinated efforts in basic and clinical research, practice guidelines for the prevention and treatment of cancer-related muscle wasting are lacking, mainly because of the multifactorial pathogenesis of the syndrome. From all the data presented, one can speculate that one single therapy may not be completely successful in the treatment of cachexia. From this point of view, treatments involving different combinations are more likely to be successful.

 

[stevesmi]

so the fact that AAS grow cells means that AAS users are more prone to these types of growths correct? that makes sense but what does everyone think?

a topic people do not want to discuss but lets be honest with ourselves. obviously smoking, drinking, poor lifestyle also increases cancer chances. a buddy of mine grew up near Cherynobl and when he came over to the US as a kid he ended up getting cancer at only 14 years old. so there are many factors in play