Lets open this discussion about legal alternatives to Steroids.

[BOOEY]

These products seem to be just as effective as a mild AAS such as primo or light doses of deca. Your body is not made do grow as fast as some steroids make your body grow. This is why you see a lot of these ugly stretch marks on guys in the shoulders, biceps, and upper outer chest cavity area. It makes more sense to let your body grow at a slower pace so you don't have these stretch marks or if you are older and your body cannot handle the harsh sides from AAS. I still use AAS, but I was thinking that these pro-hormones would be perfect to help maintain after a cycle of illegal gear. Does this make sense or would this help maintain.

My questions are, if this pro-hormone does not shut down the natural test levels, does it raise the natural test above and beyond what is normally produced?

Can you stay on these pro-hormones year rould w/o sides?

I don't know about you, but I've gotten stretch marks without being on cycle. I would think the best alternative to steroids is eating a lot of food and lifting heavy. Not something in between with as much side effects as AAS. True, they may work, in fact people say they do gain weight while on a prohormone cycle. But along with the weight gain comes the wtaer bloat, hair loss, acne, an so forth. With all these negatives it amazes me why someone would take these products, while a quality AAS-cycle provides results 10x better.

 

[manny78]

here is a pop quiz for all the steroid gurus here....

Name a steroid that has been discontinued in use because of its toxicity or side effects. A steroid so bad for you that even the most harcore users won't touch.

Massive karma blast if you name that steroid.


PS: some AAS just can't be found because they are not manufactured anymore, it doesn't mean their use was discontinued because the sides out weight the benefits.


AGAIN massive karma blast for somebody who knows the answer.

Finaject is one, Parabolan is another. But my vote goes to Drope cheques and metribolone.

 

[Becoming]

here is a pop quiz for all the steroid gurus here....

Name a steroid that has been discontinued in use because of its toxicity or side effects. A steroid so bad for you that even the most harcore users won't touch.

Massive karma blast if you name that steroid.

PS: some AAS just can't be found because they are not manufactured anymore, it doesn't mean their use was discontinued because the sides out weight the benefits.

No steroid has ever been created that had be discontinued due to its bad side effects or long term damage to the body?

I hope you can see the diffence between toxicity in UNTESTED HORMONE VARIANTS vs toxicity in currently or formerly APPROVED MEDICAL TREATMENTS.... but just in case I will lay it out for you...

Parabolan was discontinued I believe (I don't know cause I was too young to be around back then) more due to doping reasons than for toxicity reasons... I know masteron was also discontinued but I don't know the reasons... again I think it is more because of doping a variety of orals can be liver toxic in sufficient dosages (but then so can acetaminophen) and it is suspected tren substances can be kidney toxic in suffient dosages...

But none of the current or formerly APPROVED MEDICAL TREATMENTS (the ILLEGAL steriods) have since been discontinued specifically for toxicity reasons to my knowledge...

there is a good reason for this... each and every one of those drugs went through years of extensive testing in humans and animals PRIOR to thier official release and subsequent use in humans... these studies were also reviewed thoroughly by the proper medical authorities... I have no reservations about the safety of any of these compounds in proper dosages.... lets face it, if the FDA approves a medical treatment for human use and then later it is found to be toxic - the shit hits the fan.. they try to make sure what they release is safe (and some does still slip through the cracks)

HOWEVER we are talking about TWO DIFFERENT THINGS....

STERIODS APPROVED FOR HUMAN USE VS UNTESTED AND UNKNOWN STEROID COMPOUNDS...

- the items known affectionately as "pro-hormones" are merely UN-TESTED STEROID COMPOUNDS... little if anything is known about their toxicity and effects (both good and bad) because EXTENSIVE PEER REVIEWED SCIENTIFICALLY VALID studies have not been done...

You know that the nazis tested out testosterone variations on concentration camp prisoners right? and that the products that were shown effective without killing the prisoners or otherwise making them sicker were then later used in the German troops, right? EVEN THEY WERE NOT STUPID ENOUGH TO TEST IT ON THEMSELVES FIRST....and that was back in the 30s and 40s.... (On a positive note, we then used testosterone to try and help concentration camp victims recover)

But which ones were either not effective or shown to be toxic? What, they did not write them down for us to know about? Hmmmm, I guess all the things they tested that failed went in the garbage.... As do most other experimental treatment that have been researched in the past and were found to be either dangerous or inneffective.... I guess we will use the public to test them all over again, right?

 

[gjohnson5]

I don't buy this:

"17a-Methyl-4-HydroxyNandrolone :
this is really a stand out in everything I have used. This hormone is Methylated so it is easily absorbed and almost nothing is lost during digestion. 13 times more ANABOLIC and 3 times more ANDROGENIC then testosterone! "

17a methylation will result in a big loss in potency of both the androgenic and anabolic activity. Maybe it is "13 times more anabolic than testosterone" when the latter is also taken orally.

Oh yes, and the answer to the discontinued roid for liver tox. is 17a-methyltrenbolone.

Since I bashed ulter , I decided to give him some props
You 2 are right about the toxicity of m1t. From what I understand methyl 1,4ad isn't as bad and M-OHN is least harsh.

I just read this while I was at work
http://forum.xtrememass.com/archive/index.php/t-4835.html

I can personally attest after taking m1t in Jan and I got off because I wasn't feeling well at all. I had blood work done.
LDH 369 H normal 100-250
AST (SGOT) 129 H normal 0 - 40
ALT (SGPT) 58 H normal 0 - 40

I got off that shit

 

[BigAndy69]

BRR, are you talking about dbol being discontinued by CIBA?

 

[Big Rick Rock]

BRR, are you talking about dbol being discontinued by CIBA?

Nope... I'm not concerned about what pharmaceutical companies have discontinued or not. I'm mainly concerned by what users have deemed unusable because it’s side effects out weight the benefits.

 

[Becoming]

I'm not concerned about what pharmaceutical companies have discontinued or not. I'm mainly concerned by what users have deemed unusable because it’s side effects out weight the benefits.

There have been dudes touting the use of several grams of AAS at one time... also we all have seen threads about dudes that are taking huge amounts of dbol and drol ON TOP of huge cycles... and people that have felt fine on small normal cycles only to find blown up liver values when they get a blood test...

How you FEEL and what you THINK doesn't mean didly shit about the damage you could be doing inside your body.... or whether or not something is safe...

Percieved side effects and true side effects are two completely different things.... I wouldn't tell someone to do a regular cycle without getting bloodwork just because they feel okay, would you?

Well I guess if you feel okay, why bother with any tox or pharmacology testing of PH's at all? For that matter, lets why even bother with a blood test?

Take a tiny bit of arsenic every day and you will feel fine.... sooner or later though you will drop dead...

"Feeling" okay doesn't make something safe...

 

[Big Rick Rock]

There have been dudes touting the use of several grams of AAS at one time... also we all have seen threads about dudes that are taking huge amounts of dbol and drol ON TOP of huge cycles... and people that have felt fine on small normal cycles only to find blown up liver values when they get a blood test...

How you FEEL and what you THINK doesn't mean didly shit about the damage you could be doing inside your body.... or whether or not something is safe...

Percieved side effects and true side effects are two completely different things.... I wouldn't tell someone to do a regular cycle without getting bloodwork just because they feel okay, would you?

Well I guess if you feel okay, why bother with any tox or pharmacology testing of PH's at all? For that matter, lets why even bother with a blood test?

Take a tiny bit of arsenic every day and you will feel fine.... sooner or later though you will drop dead...

"Feeling" okay doesn't make something safe...

Are these comments directed at ALL steroid use? or just these new untested toxic poisonous deadly prohormones you are trying to save us from?

 

[Becoming]

Are these comments directed at ALL steroid use? or just these new untested toxic poisonous deadly prohormones you are trying to save us from?

Feeling okay is NOT an indicator of safety with ANY drug use (even non-steroid drugs) That is why they do testing previous to the release - so that you KNOW it is safe...


The traditional steroids are safe for use as long as one takes the appropriate steps... (bloodwork where neccessary, pct, research as to use and reasonable dosages)
- the fact that you feel okay has nothing to do with their safety, the prior testing and years of well-documented use proves their safety....


Do you just take anything that FEELS safe to you?

I hear antifreeze tastes damn good to pets.... but I doubt I will switch my gatorade out for it anytime soon if someone puts together a chart that shows it will make my bench go up....

 

[Becoming]

On a side note I bet some women would feel damn good on say 500g of sust a week....

Does that mean they won't suffer any long term effects?

Oh wait, does RESEARCH tell us that that might be inappropriate?

Hmmmm, maybe we should research things before we use them....!!!