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Let's debate the big bang theory.

biteme

biteme

MVP
EF VIP
I remember studying the theory many years ago in college. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. Here's my question: Say that there is a soup of gases in the atmosphere, they mix and a giant explosion occurs and life springs from this explosion. An athiest once told me that life was started by chains of carbon. Okay, so where the fuck did the chains of carbon come from? the gases? the atmosphere? These things were always there. Bullshit, it goes against all common sense. Which one of you motherfuckers lit the fuse? Which one of you is God masquerading as an EF character?
 
God created the world and Ted (his half brother) created the universe.

PROVE ME WRONG!
 
EnderJE said:
God created the world and Ted (his half brother) created the universe.

PROVE ME WRONG!
Click to expand...

Actually it was a flea named Arthur that created the universe. PROVE ME WRONG!
 
moose11 said:
TED!? that lazy sack of shit couldnt do anything
Click to expand...

I need to correct your FUll Metal Jacket quote. "You have best unfuck yourself or I will unscrew your head and shit down your neck!!" That's a little closer to the actual quote.
 
I've been thinking about death lately. I think my time is near for some reason. I thought I might die last night. As I was about to croak, I heard an evil voice say, "Life?" As if to mock life itself and persuade me to give up the spirit because life is not worth it. Like Lestat recently posted, I want to get my shit in order and cover all my bases (in case there's life after death).
 
biteme said:
I remember studying the theory many years ago in college. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. Here's my question: Say that there is a soup of gases in the atmosphere, they mix and a giant explosion occurs and life springs from this explosion. An athiest once told me that life was started by chains of carbon. Okay, so where the fuck did the chains of carbon come from? the gases? the atmosphere? These things were always there. Bullshit, it goes against all common sense. Which one of you motherfuckers lit the fuse? Which one of you is God masquerading as an EF character?
Click to expand...


Ha ha I like this good questions :D

Well the same goes for God. on the opposite side if he created everything where did he come from? ha ha. I use to spend hrs pondering on this one as a child and asking my mom and getting the answer " You should not question it. It just is. That would stop me from asking her but not wondering.

So U think something made god right?
or something made the something that made God?

Seems something started it. What could it be?
To me this is all ruled out just because we are here right.

so to me there are 2 different things.. There is a Big bang that mad God.
or there was a Big Bang that just started life and no God.
at mad God.
or there was a Big Bang that just started life and no God.
 
biteme said:
Here's my question: Say that there is a soup of gases in the atmosphere, they mix and a giant explosion occurs and life springs from this explosion. An athiest once told me that life was started by chains of carbon. Okay, so where the fuck did the chains of carbon come from? the gases? the atmosphere? These things were always there.
Click to expand...

Well, you'd need to have some basic a priori knowledge on unification theories and particle physics to begin to get an understanding of things. Carbon is made up of protons, neutrons, and electrons. Of those three particles, only electrons are elementary. Protons and neutrons are made up of quarks and gluons.

With respect to where particles came from out of the big bang, you need to realize that at the temperature around 10^10 kelvin, the basic forces of the universe had yet to decouple into what we know today. The breaking of symmetry is what gave us the particles we know today.

Really, without getting into subjects of baryogenesis, nucleogenesis, symmetry breaking, relativity, matter/antimatter asymmetry, Freidmann's cosmological models, Einstsin's field equations, and quantum theory -- and the mathematics to go along with them -- there's not much you can really understand. This stuff isn't in a language just anyone can read.

I'd try to explain things and stuff, but I just got released from the hospital today and am still doped up on considerable amounts of demerol and percocets, so I'll have to leave this for someone else to explain. Sorry.



:cow:
 
samoth said:
Well, you'd need to have some basic a priori knowledge on unification theories and particle physics to begin to get an understanding of things. Carbon is made up of protons, neutrons, and electrons. Of those three particles, only electrons are elementary. Protons and neutrons are made up of quarks and gluons.

With respect to where particles came from out of the big bang, you need to realize that at the temperature around 10^10 kelvin, the basic forces of the universe had yet to decouple into what we know today. The breaking of symmetry is what gave us the particles we know today.

Really, without getting into subjects of baryogenesis, nucleogenesis, symmetry breaking, relativity, matter/antimatter asymmetry, Freidmann's cosmological models, Einstsin's field equations, and quantum theory -- and the mathematics to go along with them -- there's not much you can really understand. This stuff isn't in a language just anyone can read.

I'd try to explain things and stuff, but I just got released from the hospital today and am still doped up on considerable amounts of demerol and percocets, so I'll have to leave this for someone else to explain. Sorry.



:cow:
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I have no idea just what the fuck you just said, but it's okay. Godspeed, I wish you a fast recovery. I think even with all that basic understanding (breaking things down), you're still left with the same questions.
 
biteme said:
I need to correct your FUll Metal Jacket quote. "You have best unfuck yourself or I will unscrew your head and shit down your neck!!" That's a little closer to the actual quote.
Click to expand...

damnit i searched to prove u wrong...i hate being wrong.
 
All I could think of last night was that I can't die because my daughter would find me dead in the morning and it would fuck her up for life. So I fought it off. My grandfather died in his sleep at a relative young age, I just have this feeling. I wouldn't care except for my daughter. What happened was I was either asleep or close to it and I gasped for air. (just once) but something seemed wrong. A lot of us big bodybuilder types die relatively young from a sudden heart attack.
 
moose11 said:
damnit i searched to prove u wrong...i hate being wrong.
Click to expand...

LOL. I don't anything likes to be wrong, makes you doubt yourself.
 
moose11 said:
damnit i searched to prove u wrong...i hate being wrong.
Click to expand...

Before that movie though I always heard as I'll Rip of your head and shit down your windpipe. Or at least that's how I heard it in basic.
 
My understanding is that it all started as a mass that was so dense that a spoonful weighed a ton or so. Soemthing like that.

This much I do know: People who believe there is no way that their could be life on other planets or the possibility of alien visits...don't know much astonomy.

With billions of planets, it is ludicrous to say we are the only ones.
 
Testosterone boy said:
My understanding is that it all started as a mass that was so dense that a spoonful weighed a ton or so. Soemthing like that.

This much I do know: People who believe there is no way that their could be life on other planets or the possibility of alien visits...don't know much astonomy.

With billions of planets, it is ludicrous to say we are the only ones.
Click to expand...

True, there possibly was or will be life in other galaxies or even in our own. But, Recorded human existance is only 10,000 years in a universe that is 10,000,000,000 years old. The likelihood of any species being around at the same time is remote. Any species that could travel here or observe us, would be so far beyond us, we'd be like ants contemplating humanity.
 
biteme said:
I remember studying the theory many years ago in college. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. Here's my question: Say that there is a soup of gases in the atmosphere, they mix and a giant explosion occurs and life springs from this explosion. An athiest once told me that life was started by chains of carbon. Okay, so where the fuck did the chains of carbon come from? the gases? the atmosphere? These things were always there. Bullshit, it goes against all common sense. Which one of you motherfuckers lit the fuse? Which one of you is God masquerading as an EF character?
Click to expand...
My explanation isn't as learned as Samoth's but I think part of what he's trying to say is that before there was matter everything was supercondensed into a singularity. Cataclismic force broke this up and propelled it's pieces out into space- the Big Bang. You've got to remember that this is only a model that many believe the best possible analysis of what goes on in our galaxy and beyond. How this singularity existed before time begins or how a spark of life ignites is presently unknowable. Science asks you to take that leap of faith and say : Well, this is the best explanation we've come up with so I'll look at the universe in this particular way. You can say a triangle has 3 sides without questioning the "nature" of those sides. Scientific theory isn't infallable, it's just a common language we try to agree on to explain things the best we can.
 
redguru said:
True, there possibly was or will be life in other galaxies or even in our own. But, Recorded human existance is only 10,000 years in a universe that is 10,000,000,000 years old. The likelihood of any species being around at the same time is remote. Any species that could travel here or observe us, would be so far beyond us, we'd be like ants contemplating humanity.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure that space travel need be that far away.

Consider the technological advances of the past generation and the fact that gains seem to be made exponentially.

We harness anti matter (which is already fabricated in Europe and the US) and learn to either freeze ourselves for generations or travel at close to the speed of light.

I think we'll figure out a way to do it within a couple hundred years.

If we don't blow ourselves up first...which is much more likely.
 
Testosterone boy said:
I'm not so sure that space travel need be that far away.

Consider the technological advances of the past generation and the fact that gains seem to be made exponentially.

We harness anti matter (which is already fabricated in Europe and the US) and learn to either freeze ourselves for generations or travel at close to the speed of light.

I think we'll figure out a way to do it within a couple hundred years.

If we don't blow ourselves up first...which is much more likely.
Click to expand...

We can contain antimatter in Penning traps, yes, but we are talking nanograms of material.
 
fortunatesun said:
... How this singularity existed before time begins or how a spark of life ignites is presently unknowable. ...
Click to expand...

Incorrect. Spacetime itself propagates isotropically from this 'big bang'. The concept of "time" in physics and mathematics is not anything like the laymans' concept.

Mathematical probability explains perfectly how life can arise from pre-existing substituants. Quantum mechanics notwithstanding.

Also, science never asks for a "leap of faith".



:cow:
 
Testosterone boy said:
travel at close to the speed of light.
Click to expand...

Umm... no.

We've come a long way, yes, but we've also come far enough to know the limits of science: the laws of physics are universally invariant.



:cwo:
 
Believing in God does NOT explain where the universe comes from

Basically an atheist believes that somehow this complex world came about and he doesn´t know exactly how.

Then a Christian says that´s rediculous and believes this complex world AND an all powerful God entity came about.

They just made the whole story TWICE as complex
 
biteme said:
I remember studying the theory many years ago in college. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. Here's my question: Say that there is a soup of gases in the atmosphere, they mix and a giant explosion occurs and life springs from this explosion. An athiest once told me that life was started by chains of carbon. Okay, so where the fuck did the chains of carbon come from? the gases? the atmosphere? These things were always there. Bullshit, it goes against all common sense. Which one of you motherfuckers lit the fuse? Which one of you is God masquerading as an EF character?
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with the big bang theory. The big bang deals with the origins of the universe, not the origins of life on Earth.
 
Testosterone boy said:
I'm not so sure that space travel need be that far away.

Consider the technological advances of the past generation and the fact that gains seem to be made exponentially.

We harness anti matter (which is already fabricated in Europe and the US) and learn to either freeze ourselves for generations or travel at close to the speed of light.

I think we'll figure out a way to do it within a couple hundred years.

If we don't blow ourselves up first...which is much more likely.
Click to expand...

Close to the speed of light isn't enough to make space travel outside the solar system feasable. We'll need faster-than-light. Orders of magnitude faster.
 
Last edited:
biteme said:
I remember studying the theory many years ago in college. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. Here's my question: Say that there is a soup of gases in the atmosphere, they mix and a giant explosion occurs and life springs from this explosion. An athiest once told me that life was started by chains of carbon. Okay, so where the fuck did the chains of carbon come from? the gases? the atmosphere? These things were always there. Bullshit, it goes against all common sense. Which one of you motherfuckers lit the fuse? Which one of you is God masquerading as an EF character?
Click to expand...

our universe's omnipotent God annihilated himself (because the only thing God would already know everything possible except his own lack of existence) and exists now as the smallest units of matter and the law of probability
 
BrothaBill said:
our universe's omnipotent God annihilated himself (because the only thing God would already know everything possible except his own lack of existence) and exists now as the smallest units of matter and the law of probability
Click to expand...


Interesting... never heard this before.
 
Mr. dB said:
Close to the speed of light isn't enough to make space travel outside the solar system feasable. We'll need faster-than-light. Orders of magnitude faster.
Click to expand...

Dude....Captain Kirk showed us all how to do it so many times.

"Scotty....warp 7....right now. The Klingons are gaining on us."
 
Testosterone boy said:
Dude....Captain Kirk showed us all how to do it so many times.

"Scotty....warp 7....right now. The Klingons are gaining on us."
Click to expand...

It don't work that way. I hope you seriously aren't referring to Star Trek for the physical sciences.
 
samoth said:
Incorrect. Spacetime itself propagates isotropically from this 'big bang'. The concept of "time" in physics and mathematics is not anything like the laymans' concept.

Mathematical probability explains perfectly how life can arise from pre-existing substituants. Quantum mechanics notwithstanding.

Also, science never asks for a "leap of faith".



:cow:
Click to expand...
No, I feel I'm correct. How would you explain the existence of a singularity in a multi-dimentional reality ? As I understand it, time begins simultaneously with the Big Bang in that there's no linear time or otherwise to record and in fact nothing to measure. Of course science asks you to believe. 1000 years ago you could successfully argue to others that the world is flat. You would have been asking them to have faith in the 'scientific' reasoning that led you to make this conclusion. You , as a human being, have only a limited number of senses and reasoning abilities. What you can grasp of the world is thus limited. At best you can only state what you believe. To explain those beliefs to others requires some type of language- a tool. For the other person to accept your diagnosis of something that requires an a priori acceptance of something you can't possibly quantify or explain in terms of a space-time relationship requires a degree of faith. Or does that Phd actually confer a degree of deity as you've always suspected?
 
redguru said:
I "feel" I'm correct? Awfully objective of you.
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It's the point of my argument. :) Even in science you can't state with total probability that something is correct. You make your best conclusion and then believe yourself to be right..
 
fortunatesun said:
Ja,ja,ja,ja How do you measure time before the explosion?
Click to expand...

I don't know what ja means, but I already explained that the big bang is the propagation of spacetime. Do you know what that means?



:cow:
 
fortunatesun said:
Ja,ja,ja,ja How do you measure time before the explosion?
Click to expand...

time is just a manmade illusion, if there was no one around before the big bang then how could someone actually be fooled by it?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
redguru said:
If we get a big enough telescope can we see the big bang happening?
Click to expand...

The "thing" that exploded in the big bang, would you not call it "God"??
 
samoth said:
I don't know what ja means, but I already explained that the big bang is the propagation of spacetime. Do you know what that means?



:cow:
Click to expand...
Propagation- The original causative event. Ja- germanic term meaning yes.
 
redguru said:
If we get a big enough telescope can we see the big bang happening?
Click to expand...

While we can see pretty far back, we can't actually see the big bang happening due to the decoupling of the forces. Some time passed before photons could excape the hot universe while it was young. The best view we have of the big bang, however, is all around us -- the cosmic microwave background radiation.



:cow:
 
fortunatesun said:
Propagation- The original causative event. Ja- germanic term meaning yes.
Click to expand...

St. Thomas Aquinas argued more incorrectly than you!
 
BrothaBill said:
time is just a manmade illusion, if there was no one around before the big bang then how could someone actually be fooled by it?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
O.K. try this test- Don't set your alarm clock on Monday. When you roll in to work around 11:30 tell your boss to fuck off and that he's obviously delusional. If this is o.k. with him then I'll agree with you.
 
fortunatesun said:
Propagation- The original causative event. Ja- germanic term meaning yes.
Click to expand...

Ah, "yes". I don't really know any German.

Time is a dimension, as are the three spatial dimensions. They are collectively known as spacetime. The big bang theories all agree that this initial spacetime singularity -- the big bang -- is itself the propagation of spacetime. Space and time arose from the big bang and continue to propagate outward in our universe. There is no space or time outside our universe, nor was there "before" this initial spacetime singularity (I use the term initial spacetime singularity here to refer to the big bang; the term has other meanings). The universe is expanding; this universe encompasses these spacetime dimensions. To talk of time, space, or any other dimensions outside of the physical universe is to digress from the topic of the big bang.



:cow:
 
fortunatesun said:
O.K. try this test- Don't set your alarm clock on Monday. When you roll in to work around 11:30 tell your boss to fuck off and that he's obviously delusional. If this is o.k. with him then I'll agree with you.
Click to expand...

I don't think you've met Brothabill before...

*giggles*



:cow:
 
fortunatesun said:
O.K. try this test- Don't set your alarm clock on Monday. When you roll in to work around 11:30 tell your boss to fuck off and that he's obviously delusional. If this is o.k. with him then I'll agree with you.
Click to expand...

Tsk tsk, I thought perhaps you would be an interesting debator
Still grounded in the simplistic reality that surrounds and your tiniest of perception of it displayed by your retort.

Time is a man made illusion is what I said and you respond with what men would say about such an illusion. Very weak
 
fortunatesun said:
But a faster typer. My guess is that we're far enough removed from the actual event to know what he really meant.
Click to expand...

Actually it was a joke about arguing causation incorrectly. Anyone familiar would have realized St Augustine instead of St Aquinas and St Augustine's Aquinas lectures on "Causation" that has been deemed highly illogical upon analysis of the first cause reasoning that Ive posted about before.
Just testing your metal.
Youve been weighed, measured and found lacking. You do know you are a thread with Samoth, Redguru and Myself lol
Thats the trilogy of all angles to lose a debate
 
BrothaBill said:
Actually it was a joke about arguing causation incorrectly. Anyone familiar would have realized St Augustine instead of St Aquinas and St Augustine's Aquinas lectures on "Causation" that has been deemed highly illogical upon analysis of the first cause reasoning that Ive posted about before.
Just testing your metal.
Youve been weighed, measured and found lacking. You do know you are a thread with Samoth, Redguru and Myself lol
Thats the trilogy of all angles to lose a debate
Click to expand...

Psst... it's mettle.

XOXO

HTH
 
samoth said:
Psst... it's mettle.

XOXO

HTH
Click to expand...

I know, its an added Geekcheck I put in like the St Augustines' Aquinas lectures views which was St Acquinas to set up a joke, shhhhhhhh!!!
 
BrothaBill said:
Tsk tsk, I thought perhaps you would be an interesting debator
Still grounded in the simplistic reality that surrounds and your tiniest of perception of it displayed by your retort.

Time is a man made illusion is what I said and you respond with what men would say about such an illusion. Very weak
Click to expand...
I'm saying that if time is an illusion, it must but no more or less an illusion that anything else. That we bother to measure this 'illusion' in an attempt to communicate meaning to otherselevates to something more concrete for our purposes. That everything is an illusion is meaningless for practical everyday terms. It's not an illusion if I say its 5:44 now and you could concur- it's a tool.
 
BrothaBill said:
Actually it was a joke about arguing causation incorrectly. Anyone familiar would have realized St Augustine instead of St Aquinas and St Augustine's Aquinas lectures on "Causation" that has been deemed highly illogical upon analysis of the first cause reasoning that Ive posted about before.
Just testing your metal.
Youve been weighed, measured and found lacking. You do know you are a thread with Samoth, Redguru and Myself lol
Thats the trilogy of all angles to lose a debate
Click to expand...
OK - 0-1 But I'd like to ask if the path of that large telescope traveled along the right space-time continuum, what's to prevent you from observing actual explosion?
 
I've always liked BB's "poke it with a stick and see if it moves" argument strategy. Samoth is Joe Friday on the spot with the cold hard facts of 42.
 
fortunatesun said:
I'm saying that if time is an illusion, it must but no more or less an illusion that anything else. That we bother to measure this 'illusion' in an attempt to communicate meaning to otherselevates to something more concrete for our purposes. That everything is an illusion is meaningless for practical everyday terms. It's not an illusion if I say its 5:44 now and you could concur- it's a tool.
Click to expand...


You are single solitary entity creating all of this around you. You create this "WHOLE" reality in your mind. There is nothing "OUT" there. There is no time.
You can change this reality in an instant in your mind. "I", a creation of one part of your mind can show you how..

I am the man in "Vanilla Sky" come to pull you out of your selfdelusion youve created.

All of this, just figures of light playing in your mind. I do not exist, just reflections of light into your brain and thus I am born. But I am no more real than the brain cells that occupy me. In you brain, which is just in a container sitting in my "laboorratory" hooked up to my supercomputer feeding you what is perceived to a reality, which is just a virtual reality which is no different than reality, in your mind

Time, is just your own illusion
 
fortunatesun said:
OK - 0-1 But I'd like to ask if the path of that large telescope traveled along the right space-time continuum, what's to prevent you from observing actual explosion?
Click to expand...

Because photons were created after the explosion as Samoth pointed out earlier. My telescope question was a rhetorical one to explain the fallacy of time before or during the big bang from our point of reference.
 
Does it make sense to talk about the pre big bang?

If so, what was it like?

If not, please explain
 
anthrax said:
Does it make sense to talk about the pre big bang?

If so, what was it like?

If not, please explain
Click to expand...

No, because its outside our frame of reference. We cannot go beyond the big bang because we we would have to be outside the uiniverse to do so.
 
What about "our" universe and the hidden parallel universe?
 
redguru said:
No, because its outside our frame of reference. We cannot go beyond the big bang because we we would have to be outside the uiniverse to do so.
Click to expand...

Yep. There are theories out there about this, but there's little sense to work with them. Some of the theories are the "bubble universe" theory. There's just no basis, no foundation on which the theories to rest. It's perhaps an interesting thing for theorists to contemplate, but no one really things much of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_Universe_Theory



:cow:
 
redguru said:
Because photons were created after the explosion as Samoth pointed out earlier. My telescope question was a rhetorical one to explain the fallacy of time before or during the big bang from our point of reference.
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Sure, that was my original statement. My question was a respone to samoth's post(#24) that said I was incorrect. As I understand it, we could get very close before everthying grinds to a halt.
 
fortunatesun said:
Sure, that was my original statement. My question was a respone to samoth's post(#24) that said I was incorrect. As I understand it, we could get very close before everthying grinds to a halt.
Click to expand...

#24, wherein was stated: "...How this singularity existed before time begins or how a spark of life ignites is presently unknowable..."

To which I responded with "Incorrect...", because: 1) The singularity did not exist before time begain, time only bacame conceptualizable with in the expanding singularity itself outside of which time and space are non-existant, and 2) We know how substituants combine to form life. That's never really been a mystery. Getting those substituants together to combine and propagate might be what you meant, but otherwise, on an organic level, it's relatively simple to my knowledge.



:cow:
 
samoth said:
Can you exaggerate on the 'hidden parallel universe' part please? Not sure what you mean...



:cow:
Click to expand...

I read somewhere that there could have been a hidden parallel universe which started to fluctuate and distort and eventually reached our universe

The collision was transformed into the matter & energy which *is* the big bang
 
samoth said:
Can you exaggerate on the 'hidden parallel universe' part please? Not sure what you mean...



:cow:
Click to expand...

infinite universes, infinite realities all existing in the same space watering down "gravity" because it is the Strongest force EVER that holds the "big bang" together, which in one "out of the box" view, has yet to explode in one reality. So we are just still part of that one initial "Still intact" God and just exists as a parallel reality in its collective mind. We still exist, in one sense as a singularity in one infinite reality model. Which is more of an "in the box" theory
 
samoth said:
#24, wherein was stated: "...How this singularity existed before time begins or how a spark of life ignites is presently unknowable..."

To which I responded with "Incorrect...", because: 1) The singularity did not exist before time begain, time only bacame conceptualizable with in the expanding singularity itself outside of which time and space are non-existant, and 2) We know how substituants combine to form life. That's never really been a mystery. Getting those substituants together to combine and propagate might be what you meant, but otherwise, on an organic level, it's relatively simple to my knowledge.



:cow:
Click to expand...
1) Ok, I can agree but the argument you make can also be described as circular- a singularity that didn't exist yet expoded. 2) Sure it's what I meant. These are both just examples of science approaching an illusary singular truth that can never occur. We just say things to make ourselves understood.
 
fortunatesun said:
1) Ok, I can agree but the argument you make can also be described as circular- a singularity that didn't exist yet expoded. 2) Sure it's what I meant. These are both just examples of science approaching an illusary singular truth that can never occur. We just say things to make ourselves understood.
Click to expand...

That was Zen this is Tao
 
BrothaBill said:
infinite universes, infinite realities all existing in the same space watering down "gravity" because it is the Strongest force EVER that holds the "big bang" together, which in one "out of the box" view, has yet to explode in one reality. So we are just still part of that one initial "Still intact" God and just exists as a parallel reality in its collective mind. We still exist, in one sense as a singularity in one infinite reality model. Which is more of an "in the box" theory
Click to expand...

My head assplode
 
anthrax said:
I read somewhere that there could have been a hidden parallel universe which started to fluctuate and distort and eventually reached our universe

The collision was transformed into the matter & energy which *is* the big bang
Click to expand...

I've heard of parallel universe theories before, but never outside of media/television. I don't know of any credited responses to causes or things that came before the big bang/our universe, as it is all speculation at best.

Brothabill said:
infinite universes, infinite realities all existing in the same space watering down "gravity" because it is the Strongest force EVER that holds the "big bang" together, which in one "out of the box" view, has yet to explode in one reality. So we are just still part of that one initial "Still intact" God and just exists as a parallel reality in its collective mind. We still exist, in one sense as a singularity in one infinite reality model. Which is more of an "in the box" theory
Click to expand...

The strength of all four fundamental forces have been experimentally measured quite well. Gravity totally isn't the strongest, but it acts [debatably] over the longest distance, thus man's newtonian perception of it as the strongest force. This stuff involves coupling constants and alpha and stuff, and is mostly mathematical and involves elementary particle physics and some intermediate mathematics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_constant

And lol @ you always liking to refer to Schrodinger's cat and box experiment. You should pick up the book Schrodinger's Cat by either Barrow or Gribbon (I think it's Gribbon). Both authors have some great books about this subject, as well as the topic of this thread, explained very well and sans mathematical formality that makes them excellent reads regardless of a priori knowledge in physics or math.



:cow:
 
fortunatesun said:
1) Ok, I can agree but the argument you make can also be described as circular- a singularity that didn't exist yet expoded. 2) Sure it's what I meant. These are both just examples of science approaching an illusary singular truth that can never occur. We just say things to make ourselves understood.
Click to expand...

1) No. Time and space -- spacetime -- did not and does not exist outside of this expanding singularity. Time and space as we know them are defined specifically in our universe. Dimensions and measurements of physical constants that exist outside of our universe, are, I suppose one could just as well use either of the anthropic principles as an argument here, not measurable by us, nor will they ever be.

2) I guess I don't understand what you're saying here? We know how proteins combine, etcetera, ad nauseum, to make organic carbon-based life. It's just a matter of the right stuff being together in the right place at the right time. There's lots of rather complex molecules that exist floating in space millions of miles away... but due to their location, are unable to form life. Hence making astrochemistry kind of a boring subject, lol.



:cow:
 
samoth said:
I've heard of parallel universe theories before, but never outside of media/television. I don't know of any credited responses to causes or things that came before the big bang/our universe, as it is all speculation at best.



The strength of all four fundamental forces have been experimentally measured quite well. Gravity totally isn't the strongest, but it acts [debatably] over the longest distance, thus man's newtonian perception of it as the strongest force. This stuff involves coupling constants and alpha and stuff, and is mostly mathematical and involves elementary particle physics and some intermediate mathematics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_constant

And lol @ you always liking to refer to Schrodinger's cat and box experiment. You should pick up the book Schrodinger's Cat by either Barrow or Gribbon (I think it's Gribbon). Both authors have some great books about this subject, as well as the topic of this thread, explained very well and sans mathematical formality that makes them excellent reads regardless of a priori knowledge in physics or math.



:cow:
Click to expand...


lol, its just fun to have a debate. I might pick up that book but really. There is a STACK of books and paper I have to read and powerpoints to make. There is literally like thousands of pieces of paper I set as a goal to scan into my computer to make a guide. Ive managed to do about three pages so far lol. I have the Jolly green Giants size of tupperware that I shoved all the paperwork into and it comes up to about two and a half feet tall in this huge giant size tupperware box
Too much to even dig into, so I delay.
 
BrothaBill said:
lol, its just fun to have a debate. I might pick up that book but really. There is a STACK of books and paper I have to read and powerpoints to make. There is literally like thousands of pieces of paper I set as a goal to scan into my computer to make a guide. Ive managed to do about three pages so far lol. I have the Jolly green Giants size of tupperware that I shoved all the paperwork into and it comes up to about two and a half feet tall in this huge giant size tupperware box
Too much to even dig into, so I delay.
Click to expand...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0553342533/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-7767268-4084608#reader-page

Gribbons and Barrow both have written numerous "layman's books" (ie. you don't need a PhD to read them; minimal to no math) on the big bang, cosmology, quantum mechanics, string theory, quantum gravity, and numerous other subjects like the stuff we talk about. In my opinion, and from what I know of you, I think you'd like them -- you can look through the TOC with the link. I'd suggest you try one, like maybe this one, and see if you like the writing style and level of complexity (I think you would). It's around ten bucks, so no huge loss if you weren't to like it. They're relatively popular books in the science area, so you could probably find one used pretty easily, at a Half Price Books or similar type store (where I shop, lol).

HTH



:cow:
 
samoth said:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0553342533/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-7767268-4084608#reader-page

Gribbons and Barrow both have written numerous "layman's books" (ie. you don't need a PhD to read them; minimal to no math) on the big bang, cosmology, quantum mechanics, string theory, quantum gravity, and numerous other subjects like the stuff we talk about. In my opinion, and from what I know of you, I think you'd like them -- you can look through the TOC with the link. I'd suggest you try one, like maybe this one, and see if you like the writing style and level of complexity (I think you would). It's around ten bucks, so no huge loss if you weren't to like it. They're relatively popular books in the science area, so you could probably find one used pretty easily, at a Half Price Books or similar type store (where I shop, lol).

HTH



:cow:
Click to expand...


I dont need to read the books of men. Ive been to the frequency realm and had the frequency aliens explain it all to me. Floated through the cosmos having it explained it all by the "Architect"
I just need to finish my book, the World According to Me. And I have a PHd, I bought it online. Im also a Reverend
 
Ahh well. I'm even more confused now. I think I'm developing Alzheimer's.
 
biteme said:
I remember studying the theory many years ago in college. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. Here's my question: Say that there is a soup of gases in the atmosphere, they mix and a giant explosion occurs and life springs from this explosion. An athiest once told me that life was started by chains of carbon. Okay, so where the fuck did the chains of carbon come from? the gases? the atmosphere? These things were always there. Bullshit, it goes against all common sense. Which one of you motherfuckers lit the fuse? Which one of you is God masquerading as an EF character?
Click to expand...


Bro. What you know or what somebody told you is the tip of the iceberg. It's true, life is basically chains of carbon. In fact, we are carbon units. Now about your question, what was there before, how this started, well, these gases were there because in a certain period of time, that could be hundreds of millions of years, there are infinite amount of paralell universes. Some of them dying, others "bigbanging". At the same time, all these infinite paralell universes are part of a bigger and unknown entity, unknown of course for an insignificant type of life on a microscopic point of a solar system in a galaxy in a universe. Every component of this big entity has a life time. That creates a balance based on energy; just like the internal balance on a human body. This big entity is part of a wonderful world in a different concept of dimension. Those infinite entities have been there forever. Or better said, what for us means forever. That is the essence of energy. Energy is what could be related to the explanation of who is God.
 
What I see here is that some of you are highly educated in physics and know a hell of a lot more than me in these matters. But, you still can't answer the ultimate question no matter how much education you have.
 
biteme said:
What I see here is that some of you are highly educated in physics and know a hell of a lot more than me in these matters. But, you still can't answer the ultimate question no matter how much education you have.
Click to expand...
Sure I can.... I go to the gym because it's there[/FONT]TRAIN OR DIE
 
fortunatesun said:
Sure I can.... I go to the gym because it's there[/FONT]TRAIN OR DIE
Click to expand...

Haha. Although, I must admit that I'm impressed with Samoth and BB's knowledge, because I have no idea what the fuck they are talking about. LOL
And I had chem, trig, 20 hours of biology. Guess I need physics.
 
biteme said:
What I see here is that some of you are highly educated in physics and know a hell of a lot more than me in these matters. But, you still can't answer the ultimate question no matter how much education you have.
Click to expand...

don't forget, it is afterall as you put it 'the ultimate question'. You can't reject something you don't understand or simply believe in a divine explanation. Not to pluck any wrong strings here. :verygood:
 
Subzeero said:
don't forget, it is afterall as you put it 'the ultimate question'. You can't reject something you don't understand or simply believe in a divine explanation. Not to pluck any wrong strings here. :verygood:
Click to expand...

Dood. I don't fucking know, I thought I did, but I really don't and neither does anyone else.
 
biteme said:
Haha. Although, I must admit that I'm impressed with Samoth and BB's knowledge, because I have no idea what the fuck they are talking about. LOL
And I had chem, trig, 20 hours of biology. Guess I need physics.
Click to expand...
Yes, physics is fun though I don't always understand the concept. I've gotta fight some things every inch of the way before I can accept it.
 
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