Let's create a standard for Shut down and Supression References

[Indy]

For sakes of arguing as many are in many threads now a days I think we should clarify or specify what we mean by each term so everyone is on the same page from now on.

Supression in my book and when I refer to it, is your body not creating the "normal" levels as your body normally would cause of exogeneous sources.

Shut down means you have gone beyond supression to the point that your body is NO LONGER producing Test internally cause of the high dose or long term use of exogeneous test.

Does anyone disagree, or can we use this going forward as the "standard" of communicating this issues in the threads. I realize Ross is gone and I thank God for that everyday, but some peeps are still confused, maybe it's me thats confused

Indy-

 

[LftHndPwrHouse]

Sounds good to me brother!

 

[wayneboard1]

For sakes of arguing as many are in many threads now a days I think we should clarify or specify what we mean by each term so everyone is on the same page from now on.

Supression in my book and when I refer to it, is your body not creating the "normal" levels as your body normally would cause of exogeneous sources.

Shut down means you have gone beyond supression to the point that your body is NO LONGER producing Test internally cause of the high dose or long term use of exogeneous test.

Does anyone disagree, or can we use this going forward as the "standard" of communicating this issues in the threads. I realize Ross is gone and I thank God for that everyday, but some peeps are still confused, maybe it's me thats confused

Indy-

I am happy Ross is gone as WELL, and I really THINK you HAVE a GOOD idea here INDY in CLARIFYING some COMMON terminology.

 

[blut wump]

I like the confusion but can see that it might be confusing.

They look like workable definitions until we get the next bout of newbies.

 

[nydj66]

The only problem with that nomenclature is that suppression is rare. The only way to acheive suppression is to do a very low dosage cycle (or HRT). Anything over (about) 30mg/day of AAS and your endogenous testosterone production will be 0 after about three weeks on cycle. So, for almost any real-world cycle, shut down will occur.

Many people say "shut down" when they have a hard time recovering (often due to elevated prolactin from deca or tren). You need to have a third term that covers this situation.

 

[bluehen]

I agree this should be a sticky. Oh and thank goodness that F-Bag Ross is gone!

 

[blut wump]

The only problem with that nomenclature is that suppression is rare. The only way to acheive suppression is to do a very low dosage cycle (or HRT). Anything over (about) 30mg/day of AAS and your endogenous testosterone production will be 0 after about three weeks on cycle. So, for almost any real-world cycle, shut down will occur.

Many people say "shut down" when they have a hard time recovering (often due to elevated prolactin from deca or tren). You need to have a third term that covers this situation.

Wouldn't that just be chronic suppression or chronic shut-down?

 

[nuthnbutfords]

As I get ready to start my 3 month cycle (started today), I will completely contradict myself here. Any "action" you take (AAS)....you body has an equal.."Reaction"..(maintaining homeostasis-cortisol-shbg..and BANG!...post cycle gains are lost.) This really should be the biggest thing debated on this board. What can we do? How long should cycles last? What is the best thing to suppress cortisol, SHBG post cycle? Well..after tearing apart "Building the Perfect Beast" the past three months...many long logs have been flushed down the toilet while that book has been my hands. Your body doesn't even begin to start taking counter measures until about week number 3. Any cycle longer than 6 weeks...the "Reaction" factors outweigh anything you are putting into your body. (keep in mind..this is what is stated in the book...as I did begin a 12 weeker today). A short 15 day pct..and the body is usually ready again by about day 45 or 50. This really does make sense to me. 4 or 5 weeks on...2 off..and get back on. Use high androgens that suppress your bodies countermeasures..and then come in @ the end w/high anabolics..and get out while you can! Estrogen is the culprit in post cycle gains being lost...@ least thats what the books says.

I think alot of people on this board just rely on being "on" for such long periods...that "shut down" does occur. And when it comes time to fight back for their natural levels...80% of their gains are lost. And then they start all over again. Sounds redundant to me. Kinda sounds unhealthy also (again..i'm starting a 12 weeker.i know)

So...I will now stop typing..and go load up w/some sust before my leg workout, but! Before all you guys go on tearing apart Building the Perfect Beast..at least read it throughly, and after you let it all soak in..it does kinda make sense. Who knows. If we all had the answer..we'd all be 250 schredded.

IF WE ALL PUT OUR HEADS TOGETHER..WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET SOMEWHERE!!!!!

I might have missed the point in the thread..but I guess I needed to vent.

 

[galaxy]

So would 30mgs of var ed with 250ius of hcg twice a week and maybe 50mgs of clomid ed keep u from being shut down?

 

[krishna]

Ok so can we agree on doses of AAS that will suppress instead of shut down? I think, depending on how long you're on any given dose, any worth while dose of anything will eventually shut you down. Sure it will suppress you at first, but it will eventually shut you down. So with that said, we could even be talking about the same dose and still be using the terms "suppressed" and "shut down". It all depends on how long you've been on the dose. Say you take 30mg of var for a given period of time. The first few weeks will suppress you, but eventually you will be suppressed to the point of shut down. Suppression is simply the early stages of shut down.

 

[galaxy]

Something to think about tho. I could probably go 4 weeks var and 4 weeks proviron and avoid libido crash and do test at 250mgs ed with bumping up to 500mgs for a couple months a year maybe. My goals now are to stay in shape but stay healthy.

 

[Indy]

I like the confusion but can see that it might be confusing.

They look like workable definitions until we get the next bout of newbies.

Agreed

I issued some green K to each and everyone of you, thanks guys and let's keep the learning coming....for those that have not yet responded to this thread, just stop by and drop me K and I'll be happy

Krishna, Agree with yours also which is why I started this, suppression leads to "shut down" could be dose independat, but definately time dependant, with that said if everyone reads this and adopts it as standard in their posts, then majority of miscommunication is still taken care of as I simply want supression and shut down to not mean the same thing, but yes one can lead to the other, and most definately will at some point in time whether dosage dependant for that substance or not.

Wayne
You DREDGED up NEGATIVE ross MemOries there, YouRE NutS bRo

 

[faaassst]

What was Ross's running line? Something like "I AM a fitness MODEL and a bodybuilder SO I am NOT prepared to RISK hair LOSS!" LOL. What a tool!

 

[Anthony Starks]

So would 30mgs of var ed with 250ius of hcg twice a week and maybe 50mgs of clomid ed keep u from being shut down?

Clomid and/or HCG while you are on cycle will not keep your from getting shut down.

 

[Slyder190]

Clomid and/or HCG while you are on cycle will not keep your from getting shut down.

True.

 

[LftHndPwrHouse]

IMO "Shut Down"
Is the total loss of test production in your body. Your body is now relying on the test your are injecting. At this point your body will actually fight the injected test and start to create an abnormal amount of estrogen to counter act the test so prodcution can restart. You will experience a significant size difference in your testical size as well as serious sexual problems.

"Supression"
Is the begining of the shut down process. Everytime you do inject your self with test or another form of AAS you supress your own production. You may encounter mild "shut down" sides.

Over a lenght of time anything will shut your down the time that it takes to shut you down varies upon what AAS you are taking and amount you are taking.

 

[Indy]

IMO "Shut Down"
Is the total loss of test production in your body. Your body is now relying on the test your are injecting. At this point your body will actually fight the injected test and start to create an abnormal amount of estrogen to counter act the test so prodcution can restart. You will experience a significant size difference in your testical size as well as serious sexual problems.

"Supression"
Is the begining of the shut down process. Everytime you do inject your self with test or another form of AAS you supress your own production. You may encounter mild "shut down" sides.

Over a lenght of time anything will shut your down the time that it takes to shut you down varies upon what AAS you are taking and amount you are taking.

You already responded with your .02 cents, this one doesn't count

 

[Gman1]

sounds good, ill keep that in mind..

 

[LftHndPwrHouse]

You already responded with your .02 cents, this one doesn't count

GRRRR....Hell here is a .25!

 

[Indy]

Bump

 

[George Spellwin]

Nice job making this a Karma Awarded Thread!

 

[Indy]

Nice job making this a Karma Awarded Thread!

and MY Karma award is where George ????

 

[bluehen]

Indy did you pick up a new whip, ie the new avi?

 

[Indy]

Indy did you pick up a new whip, ie the new avi?

Not YET, that's the new ride I want to buy, I just have to decide if it's worth getting rid of a toy I have now....my Pace Car has a mental attachment on my, she is my girlfriend, and the wife says no Porsche
Carrera S unless she goes. SO I am taking pic's as I look at them and posting them everywhere, maybe the wife will see it my way soon. Last time I bought a car and hid it for months until she found out, she went home to mom's for a long weekend.....so if she dont see it my way soon, she's going to be really pissed this time I do it

 

[DieselGunz]

Just buy and come home with it, then she has no choice

 

[Indy]

Just buy and come home with it, then she has no choice

Agreed, but I am on cycle right now, test is thru the roof, and I kind of need her everynight

 

[bluehen]

Not YET, that's the new ride I want to buy, I just have to decide if it's worth getting rid of a toy I have now....my Pace Car has a mental attachment on my, she is my girlfriend, and the wife says no Porsche
Carrera S unless she goes. SO I am taking pic's as I look at them and posting them everywhere, maybe the wife will see it my way soon. Last time I bought a car and hid it for months until she found out, she went home to mom's for a long weekend.....so if she dont see it my way soon, she's going to be really pissed this time I do it

Yeah wait and try to talk her into it. You can't get rid of that Pace car. Hey next time the Barret Jackson auction is on let your wife see it, tell her the Pace Car is an investment!

 

[Indy]

Yeah wait and try to talk her into it. You can't get rid of that Pace car. Hey next time the Barret Jackson auction is on let your wife see it, tell her the Pace Car is an investment!

No problem there, she's the one that told me "you wont sell a car going up in value every year for a car that will go down each year" I agree, but paying cash for a $100k car just wont happen unless I sell a hot rod...

 

[Indy]

K guys, back to the subject, think RADAR should add these terms to his newbie terms sticky ?? C'mon RADAR watchya think man ?

Indy-

 

[bluehen]

No problem there, she's the one that told me "you wont sell a car going up in value every year for a car that will go down each year" I agree, but paying cash for a $100k car just wont happen unless I sell a hot rod...

F it get the Z06 then.

 

[Indy]

F it get the Z06 then.

This advice should get the Karma award

 

[DieselGunz]

Agreed, but I am on cycle right now, test is thru the roof, and I kind of need her everynight

Ok that I can understand

 

[bluehen]

This advice should get the Karma award

Cool the Z06 would be a perfect cure for Shut Down or Supression.

 

[BBBBig Phenom]

I agree with ya

 

[asianlover]

good idea bro

 

[bilter]

Late in here (I'm new to the board ). IMO the above mentioned (not about the cars) would make for a good sticky....Inconsistency is the cause of confusion. This board really seems to have it sh"$ together....Lots of good info.

 

[kbrkbr]

We've got to remember that terms like suppression and shut down are relative measures that differ from person to person.

When I did my first cycle 15 years ago, nobody had ever heard of pct. The only sup we used during cycle was evening primrose oil, and I don't even remember wtf it was supposed to do. I did numerous test/deca cycles with NO pct whatsoever, and somehow not only recovered but managed to hang onto a great portion of my gains.

Now that I'm 49, I can get suppressed by merely looking at my bottles of liquid var from across the room. I kid you not, 3 weeks var only and I'm essentially shut down.

My last cycle was var only, and by week 3 I had no libido. I didn't mind because I wasn't getting any and had two writing projects due in August. I started novaldex immediately and it took another five frigging weeks before Mr. Happy was waking me up in the morning. Was really starting to worry, was starting to miss the little guy. In the meantime, I lost 2/3 of my gains, and that was while on gh.

So the conclusion is obvious. The best way to recover your hpta is to not age past 25. At my age, I'm thinking fukk it, I'm just gonna go on hrt soon and not worry about it anymore. Only way I'm ever going to be able to retain any size.

 

[Maxx Out]

For sakes of arguing as many are in many threads now a days I think we should clarify or specify what we mean by each term so everyone is on the same page from now on.

Supression in my book and when I refer to it, is your body not creating the "normal" levels as your body normally would cause of exogeneous sources.

Shut down means you have gone beyond supression to the point that your body is NO LONGER producing Test internally cause of the high dose or long term use of exogeneous test.

Does anyone disagree, or can we use this going forward as the "standard" of communicating this issues in the threads. I realize Ross is gone and I thank God for that everyday, but some peeps are still confused, maybe it's me thats confused

Indy-

Sounds like a good starting point! Nice post indy!