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Lets Clarify: Clomid vs. HCG

Nimrod25

New member
Clomid: After a cycle is over, Clomid at 50 mg/day is usually very effective in restoring natural testosterone production. It acts by blocking estrogen receptors at the hypothalamus and pituitary. If androgen levels are not elevated, this is enough to cause production of at least normal amounts of LH, or often more LH than normal. During the cycle Clomid cannot prevent inhibition, though some think using it during the cycle will allow a faster recovery afterwards. That is not proven though. If nothing else, though, it is useful as an antigyno/antibloating agent during the cycle.

HCG: This does nothing with regard to inhibition of the hypothalamus and pituitary. Rather it acts like LH, and causes the testicles to produce testosterone just as if LH were present. It is useful then for avoiding testicular atrophy during the cycle. The best dosing method is to use small amounts frequently: 500 IU per day is sufficient, and 1000 IU may optionally be used. The amount may be given as a single daily dose or divided into two doses. Administration may be intramuscular or subcutaneous. More is not better: too much HCG can result in downregulation of the LH receptors in the testes, and is therefore counterproductive. Overdosing of HCG can also result in gynecomastia.

If a cycle lasts 8 weeks or longer, I think it is best to use HCG during the cycle if possible, as described above. HCG should not be used during the recovery itself since it will increase androgen and estrogen levels, which will be inhibitory to the hypothalamus and pituitary.

Clomid use should begin, if it was not used during the cycle, as soon as androgen levels drop enough that recovery becomes possible. This would be about two weeks after the last injection of long acting steroid esters, assuming reasonable doses such as 500 mg/week. Clomid use should start with 300 mg on the first day (50 mg six times) to quickly get blood levels as high as needed, and then maintained with 50 mg/day. This is needed because of the half-life of the drug. It should be continued until one is sure that natural testosterone production is back and testicle size is returned to normal.
 
Good post, but I thought you were supposed to wait three weeks
after last shot of long acting drug, so that you start therapy when
most of the drung has cleared your system.
 
Long acting esters usually last about 2-3 weeks post cycle. However, androgen levels dip considerably after week 2, making it a good choice as well. With things like sust and deca, I think 3 weeks is more realistic.
 
Bump for a great read!!
Nimrod, I have been reading your posts for a while and I have to say I am very inpressed with your vast amount of knowledge at such a young age. You are a great asset to this board

M18
 
Good post, I usually run the clomid with nolva and proviron throughout and on for about a month after cycle ends. Longer if I think I need it.
 
I would say to always use clomid, but I personally feel it is over-rated for bouncing back after a cycle. It still takes a couple months or more for me to feel back to normal, IE nut size and sex drive. But it helps.
 
Well guys, what I was trying to convey here is the practical use of both HCG and clomid together, since they do work differently I think the combo would be quite good. I think using HCG during the last 2 weeks of a cycle which will mimic LH and directly stimulate the testes, can make clomid use more efficient. If the testes are not in an atrophied state and an estrogen agonist is introduced, I think the dual action of blocking estrogen from the hpta while producing ur natural test can increase recovery significantly.
 
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Great post nimrod - between yours and m18s posts I now have a much better understanding of clomid/hcg and the post cycle recovery process.

keep it coming!

Hard
 
Nimrod25 said:
Well guys, what I was trying to convey here is the practical use of both HCG and clomid together, since they do work differently I think the combo would be quite good. I think using HCG during the last 2 weeks of a cycle which will mimic LH and directly stimulate the testes, can make clomid use more efficient. If the testes are not in an atrophied state and an estrogen agonist is introduced, I think the dual action of blocking estrogen from the hpta while producing ur natural test can increase recovery significantly.
I agree 100% that the combination of the two is the way to go. I've used clomid by itself and it usually takes a good 6-8 weeks (sometimes longer) before natural test is back to normal, whereas, when I use HCG first for 2-3 weeks then clomid for another 2 weeks, my natural test is pumping full force after only 4 weeks or so. I think the signal for the testes to work is somehow reactivated when HCG is introduced causing the recovery process to develop much faster.
 
Nimrod25 said:
bump for u bro.

Glad this thread was braught back from the dead. It has some great info...Now that I am on Fina that whole patience has gone out the window LOL

M18
 
MUSTANG_18 said:


Glad this thread was braught back from the dead. It has some great info...Now that I am on Fina that whole patience has gone out the window LOL

M18

LMAO, try being on fina/halo.
 
Thanks for the info Nimrod. I am about to come off cycle, and although I have clomid, I was wondering about HCG. Thanks for clearing it up. This is something everyone should save to their hard drive for future reference.



Alcatraz
 
Nimrod25, great post. Bump for beginners, newbies, and anyone for that matter. This is an issue that needs to be understood by all.
 
How long would you take the HCG on-cycle? I'm gonna be on a 12-wk test/eq/var/winny cycle soon, so I'm wondering when to start the hcg and how long/much/frequently to keep them nuts goin'... I'm assuming 500 IU for maybe 7 days 3 wks before the cycle ends?

Thx.
 
Nimrod, good threads such as this don't die...they just hibernate until some rookie like me comes along and makes use of the search feature.

Alcatraz
 
ALCATRAZ said:
Nimrod, good threads such as this don't die...they just hibernate until some rookie like me comes along and makes use of the search feature.

Alcatraz

LOL, glad it helped Bro.
 
Great post Nimrod, I must have missed this one the first time around. Gave you some good Karma on this one, keep feeding us with all the good info you have bro.
 
Good post but all has been said many times.
BTW I don't think using clomid along with HCG is a good idea.
HCG is a GONADOTROPIN.CLomid acts by binding E/R and,to make it short,allows Ipofisi to produce more Gonadotropine(through pituitary and so on).
If in this phase you use an exogenous sourc of gonadotropin,thius process will stop and clomid will be useless.
It is shown that HCG at 5000UI per week can rise test level 4 times the normal.

If you like I can explain how clomid works so you can find out why is usless stack it with HCG
 
I understand what you are saying Italianboy, but I never said to stack clomid and HCG. Obviously the androgen raise caused by HCG administartion would make clomid useless post cycle. However, Using HCG at low doses certain weeks during a cycle can increase recovery, and make clomid that much more efficient.
 
Nimrod25 said:
I understand what you are saying Italianboy, but I never said to stack clomid and HCG. Obviously the androgen raise caused by HCG administartion would make clomid useless post cycle. However, Using HCG at low doses certain weeks during a cycle can increase recovery, and make clomid that much more efficient.

This is 100%true.Sorry bro but you know my english sucks a lot!

I've read this:"Well guys, what I was trying to convey here is the practical use of both HCG and clomid together, since they do work differently I think the combo would be quite good"
and wrong thought that you were suggesting to use HCG and clomiphen at the same time.
 
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