Legal Question: 4th Amendment

[gjohnson5]

That isnt the plain view doctrine. The plain view doctrine is when the police are legally in the house (ie. they already have a warrant) and they see contraband. And the plain view doctrine is limited. For example, if the police are in a house to execute an arrest warrant, and they see what looks like super nice (probably stolen) flat screen TVs, they can't go over and turn them around to get their serial numbers. The numbers are not in plain view. Even if the TVs looked suspicious they couldn't go check them out. They'd need to get another warrant.

There is no I see bad shit in the house exception to the warrant requirement without exigent circumstances. Exigent circumstances are circumstances in which getting a warrant would put the officers in danger or would risk the destruction of evidence. If you've got two cops guarding the house while the other goes to get a warrant, there isnt much of a chance of 700 pot plants just vanishing.

AAh , so if they see contraband in plain view , then they can phone in a warrant....
But I bet they never do that
US Constitution Annotated - Plain View

294 Steele v. United States, 267 U.S. 498 (1925) (officers observed contraband in view through open doorway; had probable cause to procure warrant). Cf. Taylor v. United States, 286 U.S. 1 (1932) (officers observed contraband in plain view in garage, warrantless entry to seize was unconstitutional).

 

[Cutiebaby]

That isnt the plain view doctrine. The plain view doctrine is when the police are legally in the house (ie. they already have a warrant) and they see contraband. And the plain view doctrine is limited. For example, if the police are in a house to execute an arrest warrant, and they see what looks like super nice (probably stolen) flat screen TVs, they can't go over and turn them around to get their serial numbers. The numbers are not in plain view. Even if the TVs looked suspicious they couldn't go check them out. They'd need to get another warrant.

There is no I see bad shit in the house exception to the warrant requirement without exigent circumstances. Exigent circumstances are circumstances in which getting a warrant would put the officers in danger or would risk the destruction of evidence. If you've got two cops guarding the house while the other goes to get a warrant, there isnt much of a chance of 700 pot plants just vanishing.

I thought plain view was in Plain view. For instance a cop pulls me over on a minor traffic violation then sees a bowl (weed smokers pipe) on my dash, then they have the plain view which allows them to warrantless search my car and seize what ever other drugs and paraphernalia that I have. Then I then become charged with possession etc and they have no warrant with a search and seizure.
Guess I am mistaken..Good thing that was only my first class and I am still new at this, right. LOL Would suck if I walked away with a degree being this clueless.

 

[1500]

I thought plain view was in Plain view. For instance a cop pulls me over on a minor traffic violation then sees a bowl (weed smokers pipe) on my dash, then they have the plain view which allows them to warrantless search my car and seize what ever other drugs and paraphernalia that I have. Then I then become charged with possession etc and they have no warrant with a search and seizure.
Guess I am mistaken..Good thing that was only my first class and I am still new at this, right. LOL Would suck if I walked away with a degree being this clueless.

You are correct. if an officer sees your bowl in plain view he can then search the entire vehicle, including the trunk to attempt to locate any other contraband. Depending on the state, no warrant is needed for a vehicle due to the vehicle exception rule.

 

[Cutiebaby]

You are correct. if an officer sees your bowl in plain view he can then search the entire vehicle, including the trunk to attempt to locate any other contraband. Depending on the state, no warrant is needed for a vehicle due to the vehicle exception rule.

I know in the state of Massachusetts they don't need a warrant to search a car. When we got ours towed for DWI the next day I picked it up out of impound and they rummaged through everything

However, isn't it the same for a home as well? Say the cop comes here to ask a question or was called here for something. He sees a bud sitting on my desk can he then search my house warrantless based on the fact that the drugs were in plain view?

 

[1500]

I know in the state of Massachusetts they don't need a warrant to search a car. When we got ours towed for DWI the next day I picked it up out of impound and they rummaged through everything

However, isn't it the same for a home as well? Say the cop comes here to ask a question or was called here for something. He sees a bud sitting on my desk can he then search my house warrantless based on the fact that the drugs were in plain view?

yes you are on teh right track. If we are talking about a small amount of narcotics that could be destroyed because the officer has to secure a search warrant makes the situation exigent. The officer may enter the residence, detain you, perform a protective sweep of the entire residence to ensure no one else is inside for their safety.

Now, they may seize anything that they viewed in plain view while performing the sweep of the residence. They may not search anywhere other than where someone may be hiding. To increase the scope of the search, ie, cabinets, under couches, etc. they must have a search warrant or your consent to do so.

They will use everything that they seized in plain view as PC to secure the warrant.

 

[Stefka]

The cops have PC to enter the residence and secure it. Peform a protective sweep of the residence and lock it down. They can articulate that they know that guns and other weapons of violence are the tools of the trade for drug dealers and users. They performed a protective sweep to ensure that none of the drug manufacturers were hiding and lying in wait in an attempt to harm them and then secured the residence. Everything in plain view is fair game. If they searched anywhere other than places where people could hide then that evidence would be suppressed without a warrant.

If they entered based on what i stated above and articulated it that way. they will be fine. Once the residence is deemed safe and secure, then they must secure a search warrant to further search the house. Everything in plain view is just PC for them when to go apply for the warrant.

Protective sweeps are only acceptable if they are already in the building for legitimate purposes. They did not enter the building pursuant to a warrant or an exception to the warrant requirement.

 

[Stefka]

I know in the state of Massachusetts they don't need a warrant to search a car. When we got ours towed for DWI the next day I picked it up out of impound and they rummaged through everything

However, isn't it the same for a home as well? Say the cop comes here to ask a question or was called here for something. He sees a bud sitting on my desk can he then search my house warrantless based on the fact that the drugs were in plain view?

There is an automobile exception to the warrant requirement. Cars are considered to have a lesser expectation of privacy because they are subject to state regulations and they are easy to see into. There is a much greater expectation of privacy in a home. Police never need a warrant to search a car if they have probable cause to believe that there is evidence of a crime or contraband in the car.

 

[Stefka]

Y'all are luck I'm not grading these responses.

 

[Stefka]

yes you are on teh right track. If we are talking about a small amount of narcotics that could be destroyed because the officer has to secure a search warrant makes the situation exigent. The officer may enter the residence, detain you, perform a protective sweep of the entire residence to ensure no one else is inside for their safety.

Now, they may seize anything that they viewed in plain view while performing the sweep of the residence. They may not search anywhere other than where someone may be hiding. To increase the scope of the search, ie, cabinets, under couches, etc. they must have a search warrant or your consent to do so.

They will use everything that they seized in plain view as PC to secure the warrant.

That is right. But in the hypo, the officer was in her house for legitimate purposes. She gave him consent to enter. In the pot plant situation, they did not enter the building pursuant to a warrant or an exception to the warrant requirement.

 

[1500]

There is an automobile exception to the warrant requirement. Cars are considered to have a lesser expectation of privacy because they are subject to state regulations and they are easy to see into. There is a much greater expectation of privacy in a home. Police never need a warrant to search a car if they have probable cause to believe that there is evidence of a crime or contraband in the car.

The vehicle exception rule only applies to vehilces parked on the street, parking lot, public place, etc. It doesnt apply to vehilces parked at residences, private driveays, etc. A warrant is needed to search a vehcile in these circumstances. Police cant come onto the curtliage of someones property ie(domestic call), look inside a vehicle, see marijuana and then search it based on the vehilce exception rule. A warrant must be issued to search that vehicle. Courts have ruled that the exception rule does not apply in these situations. It can get very confusing. But you are obviously well informed,. For most Simply stated, dont commit crimes and you'll be just fine.