Knees getting tore up by squats...

[thebleh]

Hello all

I am 6'2", 205 lbs, 24 years old. I have been lifting for 6 years, doing power lifting for about 3 with a small six month break in there somewhere. I have been lifting all out again, and have changed my squat form to go all the way down (olympic style) as opposed to the bend at the hips first and go to parallel (more power lifter like).

My knees are getting the absolute shit torn out of them. My knees have been screwed since I was about 8 or so, and they always make a popping sound. I've had surgery once on the left knee, but it did no good at all. I have a tall, yet thin build. Think of a native american plains indian, like a cherokee or something like that. That's my natural build because I take after my father's side of the family, which is half native american.

Right now I'm on the madcow 5x5 spreadsheet, and have been making very good progress, but my knees are starting to suffer. I stretch and warm up good before squatting, but they're still going too far forward over my toes and they seem to take ALL of the pressure. I can't really lean back more, or else I'll fall over. I've tried lightening the weight quite a bit, and going from there, but the same problem occurs when I start slowly moving back up again.

Right now my 5 rep max is 225, which isn't very much. I could go back to the power lifting way, and go to parallel (butt out more), but then my lower back starts to get involved way too much and my legs don't feel shit after the end of a work out.

Should I start using knee straps, or what? I wish I could get a vid, but I don't have a camcorder.

 

[atlantaholdem]

I've had similar knee problems with squats in the past and I also have had surgery on them. You might just take the weight down a little just to control your position. If you in powerlifting, I'm sure the emphasize proper form. To make sure my knees don't go over my toes, after a de-rack the weight, I just stick my ass out as far as I can and arch my back a little. I know this sounds pretty gay but it kind of starts you in the proper squatting position.

You also need to watch your speed, especially the speed at which you're at the lowest and exploding up. I, for one, cannot explode up into the weight when I'm 'ass in the grass'. I have to sort of engage the upper motion first, then explode. If I just explode before I feel the weight when I'm coming up, my knees hurt pretty bad.

Main thing, just lower the weight for control purposes and those things. If they don't help, just slow down the motion until you find out what's comfortable for you.

 

[TomoUK]

you might have a weakness in your glutes/hams that mean you resort to leaning forward a little on the way up and putting the pressure all on your quads and therefore knees. what shoes do you wear? personally i found that i couldnt get proper oly squat form until i had weightlifting shoes that enabled me to sit back into the squat with more confidence.

 

[b fold the truth]

If you are powerlifting...why would you be squatting OLY style?

When I squat OLY style, I don't go to failure.

 

[Madcow2]

I'm just going to throw out that people who are already decently trained and then switch to an OL or full range type squat need to really lower the weight and get accustomed to it. They don't lack the power to make the squat but a lot of times it places unaccustomed stress on their joints and tendons because it's a significantly different option and powering through it without building up first can cause issues.

The other side of this is how much you increased your squatting. Did you used to squat 3x per week? That's roughly 75 reps of squatting in the 70%+ range with a core of work around 80-85%. A lot of guys aren't used to it. Many will do okay but some won't and they'll need time to be able to build up to that kind of workload. This is made exponentially worse if you changed your squatting form.

So what you have is an overuse issue. Obviously the program is working but it could be too much too fast. I'd advise backing it down now before it gets any worse. Lower the volume and then gradually add it back. With a 225 squat you might try the linear program where the average intensity (%1RM) is a lot lower but you still get some heavy work and decent frequency. But do that after you back it down, maybe squat 1x per week for 1-2 weeks until it feels better. Check back and let us know where you stand.

 

[Czar87]

Try a box squat, it has helped me, takes away almost all the stress from knees.

Madcow and others what you think should i box squat when doing 5x5 ? I am currently finishing rippetoe and my knees are becoming healthy again.

 

[ErikZ]

Make sure you don't "collapse" downwards. Try and descend a little slower so that there is less impact on your knees when you hit the ground.

 

[atlantaholdem]

Make sure you don't "collapse" downwards. Try and descend a little slower so that there is less impact on your knees when you hit the ground.

I agree with this statement. If you feel pain, you always want to both slow down and less weight until you pinpoint what exactly is causing the pain.

 

[Protobuilder]

Just some things to consider:

are you squatting w/ tennis shoes? If so, try going barefoot or, ideally, weighlifting shoes.

consciously push the knees outward in the bottom so that the weight transfers to your hips rather than reversing w/ your knees

think about whether the weight is sitting more on the balls of your foot, the midfoot, or the heel . . . you may be shifting forward pretty far, putting the pressure out on the ball of your foot . . . easily fixed by consciously trying to keep it over the midfoot or heel region.

 

[thebleh]

I'm not a pro power lifter, I was just referring to the form I was using in contract to oly.

I've dropped down the weight several times, and that doesn't seem to correct it. I'll stick w/ straps and will look into getting weightlifting shoes like the most recent poster recommended. I don't think they let barefoot in the gym I goto.

I'll try to experiment more too. I'm not used to squatting 3 times a week like in madcows spreadsheet, but I'm about 6-7 weeks into it, so its starting to be more familiar.