keeping gains

[DJ_UFO]

You need to do a lot more reading before you do what you're planning. But you probably won't. The gear you use has nothing to do with how well you'll keep your gains. Gains are the addition of LBM (muscle) to your body. Some gear will add water as well as LBM and that water will go away when you stop. That's not a loss of gains, it's a loss of water. How well you keep your gains will depend on what you do when you're DONE with the cycle not what you take during your cycle. One steroid doesn't put on a different type of LBM than another so how would it make sense that one will give you more keepable LBM than another? It won't. Read up, spend some time here and you'll get it figured out.

What he said. You have not read and learned enough man. Most of the people when go into a cycle use a "special" diet to bulk up. That's right. You need those extra calories in protein/carb/fat ratio to get the gains you are looking for. What most people do also, is when they stop the cycle, they stop eating. They go back to eat what they used to eat before. That's a big mistake. If you gain 20 pounds of LBM after 10 weeks, then you have to keep feeding forever a x+20pounds body. If you eat what you were used to it before, the body automatically will reduce that mass to almost exactly how it was before because you are not taking the right nutrients and you keep training with the same intensity. Ulter it's right. Some steroids will give you more water retention than others, and you loose that water after cycle. Some people says that can hold all the gains after cycle. Well, if you keep eating the same fat/carb/protein ratio after cycle, is possible that while you are loosing water retention, you are storing fat, because your metabolism is not the same on cycle as off cycle.

Keep reading this forums. All of them. Not only the anabolic forum. There's a lot of valuable information here. Specially from experts like Ulter, Macro, Omega, Radar, and a lot more that I'd like to name here but I don't remember. Do your homework. Take your time.

 

[Triple-G]

there is no such thing as keeping gains. do you think any of the pros would keep their 250-300 lbs even with the best PCT you could imagine? for every amount of gear there exists a corresponding amount of lbm you can hold with it. anyone who "kept" his gains after a cycle is just fooling himself because he looks at the bodyweight scale after pct is completed. but he would have to wait a couple of months to really assess his gains: either he could have reached the weight with his natural production then he will stay but if he got beyond the limit his natural production will bear he will lose, gradually, slowly, but he'll lose. and the amount of mass you can hold on to naturally is very low, most regular users are way above their limit. therefore most of them will do another cycle in a couple of months because they want to stop their decline. after they quit they will lose everything.

 

[patsfan1379]

there is no such thing as keeping gains. do you think any of the pros would keep their 250-300 lbs even with the best PCT you could imagine? for every amount of gear there exists a corresponding amount of lbm you can hold with it. anyone who "kept" his gains after a cycle is just fooling himself because he looks at the bodyweight scale after pct is completed. but he would have to wait a couple of months to really assess his gains: either he could have reached the weight with his natural production then he will stay but if he got beyond the limit his natural production will bear he will lose, gradually, slowly, but he'll lose. and the amount of mass you can hold on to naturally is very low, most regular users are way above their limit. therefore most of them will do another cycle in a couple of months because they want to stop their decline. after they quit they will lose everything.

this is one of the most intelligent realistic responses ive read in a while:

Karma... Bump...

 

[yomama]

I read a book, it was about this bodybuilders whole life. He was competing and at the end he just said "why am I doing this" so he quit juicing and working out, and he pretty much lost everything he gained from steroids.

 

[slat1]

There are way too many things to address here... diet, substance, quantitites, routine, PCT (surprised only one person mentioned PCT when it is critical in keeping gains).
Some people still seem to think AAS are wonder drugs. Knowledge, hard work, and the application of both are the most critical aspects of making QUALITY gains and keeping them.
I see a lot of people on this board talk about how they gained 15 to 20 lbs and kept it all (yet know nothing about pct). Well, I would bet you did. I bet you just ate more of everything. Kept more fat and water.
Keep an eye on the board and what people look like year round. Look at their posts too. You will see who knows what.
There are a lot of people on here who THINK they know what they are doing because someone told them. Truth is different than speculation.
Knowledge is power (and quality size too)!!!

 

[patsfan1379]

eventually you will lose everything. seen schwarzenegger lately?

 

[2BIG4URMOM]

eventually you will lose everything. seen schwarzenegger lately?

I was kind of thinking the same thing, I mean Dorian Yates and Lee Haney have sure gone down fast.

I saw Lee Haney on an interview about nutrition and training and if the wouldn't of posted his name I never would of known who he was.

I'm sure it has a lot to do with what Djufo said though; You can't expect to keep those gains if you don't train and feed the machine.

Thanks for the info Ulter, I knew about the ester length, I guess it is one of those misconceptions of the compounds of lesser androgenic gear.

 

[magicfan]

Okay, I think we kind of got off the subject. I understand that you will not keep everything gained from a cycle and also that while doing a cycle that you will retain water and will lose this after the cycle. I should have been more clear, I really wanted to know how to keep the strength gains from a cycle. I don't want to go from benching 275 to 325 during the cycle and after the cycle be back down to 275. That would be ridiculous and a waste of money. I have hit a plateau and have tried everything from supplements, changing my work out routine and dieting. I want to see some strength gains and have that energy that I once had when I first started working out and seeing incredible gains. I want something that will not be noticeable but keepable after the cycle. I heard anavar, winny and primo so far any other suggestions? I don't want to use primo b/c i don't want to poke myself everyday and winny is better than anavar as far as cost.

To comment on losing gains after a long period of time I think that you will lose your gains in the long run if you aren't busting your hump all the time in the gym. Some mentioned some names like Arnold but think about it, I'm sure he doesn't work out as hard as he did when he was competing. He has higher priorites in his life. That will cause you to lose muscle as well as the fact that he's in his 50's and his testerone levels in his body is a lot less than when he was in his 20's and 30's. Like anything, if you don't work as hard or at all in what you're doing, you will likely lose the edge that you once gained when you put all your efforts into it. I had to quit working out for 6 months b/c of a ripped pec muslce and I lost over 20lbs and almost a hundred lbs on my bench. All of this was natural and I lost it b/c I had not been working out. So in conclusion, i feel that if you lose motivation after a cycle and dont' work as hard in the gym this will be the biggest factor in losing gains. I already am committed to work harder after the cycle to keep what I can and again my question is what gear will mostly likely be able to keep my gains during a cycle.

 

[patsfan1379]

Okay, I think we kind of got off the subject. I already am committed to work harder after the cycle to keep what I can and again my question is what gear will mostly likely be able to keep my gains during a cycle.

You're right. Off topic. Sorry. But it's still a tough question. I think your gains are usually keepable, but its the TYPE of gains you may be perceiving...

If you gain 35lbs. on a HEAVY test and deca cycle, alot of that will be water & bloat... So I'll just list a couple (i don't know them all & im sure the smarter guys can add to the list...)

Bloaty Gains
Anadrol
Dbol
Test-E
Deca

Leaner Gains
Test Prop
Sust
EQ
Anavar
Primo
Fina

Like I said, there are TONS more, I just rattled off a couple.

good luck!

 

[nsashbl01]

I'm not a big guy but have been around body builders for 20 years. In what I've seen, the first cycle is the most effective and most important. Planned and executed correctly, those seem to be the most solid gains when compared to future cycles. I know many, many people who have kept their size they acquired from their first cycle for years after discontinuing gear. As long as they kept their diet and training up.

If you don't want to stick your self often, don't start running gear. Your first cycle should always be test only. See how your body reacts, and reap the benifits of virgin receptors. You can hit yourself 1x a week, but really should hit 2x. As far as not wanting to get any bigger, don't compramise your health then!

Just my .02, but I think many will agree with me here.....