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Bulldog_10
New member
Hey bros...You have any recommendations for some joint supplements? (other than chondroitin and glucosamine)
joints...
- Thread starter Bulldog_10
- Start date
Bulldog_10
New member
sk* said:How about just some deca? If you are already on cycle might wanna just add it in, will work better than any supplement.
haha...it's not for me...for my girl.
goldenone
New member
I have used MSM for my elbows that has helped.There is a MSM/Gluscosamine combo out also.
You can do a search for "MSM" on google and check it out.Or check this link out.
http://www.msm-uk.net/msm_helps_joints.htm
You can do a search for "MSM" on google and check it out.Or check this link out.
http://www.msm-uk.net/msm_helps_joints.htm
Bulldog_10
New member
goldenone said:
Thank you sir...
Bulldog_10
New member
Anyone else?
W
WARBIRDWS6
Guest
working at good ole GNC forever.....MSM and Glucosamine are the big winners. like someone noted, you can get an MSM/glucosamine combo that should work good. just megadose it! but you already know that mentality!
Bulldog_10
New member
WARBIRDWS6 said:
I think I'm just gonna start with the regular doses...if it was me, then hell yeah, I'd go nuts with it...but I don't mess around with her...I'm also thinking of getting her calcium supps (tums) cuz she's lactose intolerant...
THeMaCHinE
New member
MSM is just expensive aspirin; it does nothing to fix the problems.
Here's a formula that I put together after some pretty intense research.
2000 mg Glucosamine Sulfate (make sure it is sulfate, not HCL or N-Acetyl)
1500 mg Chondroitin Sulfate
1000 mg Niacinamide
10 grams Hydrolized collagen
Note: all of the products, with the exception of niacinamide, have long half-lives and can be taken 1x per day; niacinamide, for optimum results, should be taken 4x day.
Note: In my personal formula, I've dropped the glucosamine content (to 1000 mg) and raised the chondroitin content (to 2000 mg) as glucosamine has been shown to cause some insulin resistance. I don't believe this is much to worry about in the face of an injury though and would recommend the full 2000 mg/day dosage. (Perhaps back off if it's more for maintenance and you are being obsesssive.)
Note: This formula will activate through several different pathways, so there is synergy between the components; expect at least 4 weeks for results to manifest.
There are other products out there which may show promise, but I think these cover the "main guns" -- hope this helps.
P.S. It's worked well for me and has great medical support. I'm halfway considering marketing it.
Here's a formula that I put together after some pretty intense research.
2000 mg Glucosamine Sulfate (make sure it is sulfate, not HCL or N-Acetyl)
1500 mg Chondroitin Sulfate
1000 mg Niacinamide
10 grams Hydrolized collagen
Note: all of the products, with the exception of niacinamide, have long half-lives and can be taken 1x per day; niacinamide, for optimum results, should be taken 4x day.
Note: In my personal formula, I've dropped the glucosamine content (to 1000 mg) and raised the chondroitin content (to 2000 mg) as glucosamine has been shown to cause some insulin resistance. I don't believe this is much to worry about in the face of an injury though and would recommend the full 2000 mg/day dosage. (Perhaps back off if it's more for maintenance and you are being obsesssive.)
Note: This formula will activate through several different pathways, so there is synergy between the components; expect at least 4 weeks for results to manifest.
There are other products out there which may show promise, but I think these cover the "main guns" -- hope this helps.
P.S. It's worked well for me and has great medical support. I'm halfway considering marketing it.
Zerxes
New member
WARBIRDWS6 said:
I'll third this recommendation bro. I bought a straight MSM Capsule from Sci-Fit(I think), and it worked fine for some seriously bone-dry elbow joints, during a Winny cycle. It takes a week or so to get it working, but it cleared me right up. I don't see why taking that, as well as the Glucosamine wouldn't work even better than the MSM alone, as the two brothers have already stated.
W
WARBIRDWS6
Guest
Bulldog_10 said:
yeah, a good broad is hard to find. so don't kill her ass with 5 grams of glucosamine.
Bulldog_10
New member
THeMaCHinE said:
What do you think about adding MSM to that? Or do you really think msm is THAT worthless? BTW, karma to ya! Thanks alot!
dumbell150
New member
Winstrol ZAMBONS!................................Just kdding, its f**kn killing my joints...My elbow feels like a rusted hinge!
THeMaCHinE
New member
Bulldog_10 said:
Yeah, I think it's pretty worthless; there are plenty of other things to try before MSM.
Tier 1 additions to the above stack (Reliable and relatively consistent scientific data showing a substantial health benefit.): SAMe, Vitamin E
Tier II additions: Cayenne [topical, for pain only], Cetyl myristoleate, DMSO [topical], Green-lipped mussel, Devil’s claw, Ginger, Nettle
Willow)
Tier II items at least have some support in degenerative joint disease/OA/RA.
MSM is a Tier III item -- it is primarily supported by traditional use, or the herb or supplement has little scientific support and/or minimal health benefit.
*SNIP*
About MSM:
Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) is a naturally occurring, organic sulfur-containing compound related to another sulfur-containing substance, DMSO (Dimethyl Sulfoxide). MSM is found in small amounts throughout nature and has been detected in small amounts in the blood and urine of humans.1 Animal studies have shown that sulfur from oral supplements of MSM is incorporated into body proteins.2
Animal studies have reported that joints affected by osteoarthritis have lower sulfur content,3 and mice with arthritis given MSM, experience less joint deterioration.4 According to a preliminary report, a double-blind trial in people with osteoarthritis found that MSM, in the amount of 2,250 mg per day, reduced pain after six weeks.5
Where is it found? A precursor of MSM is formed initially by ocean plankton and released into the atmosphere, where it interacts with ozone and sunlight and returns to earth as MSM in rainfall. MSM can be taken up by plants and incorporated into their structure, but no measurement of the MSM content of foods has been done. Supplements containing MSM are available.
Although MSM is present in food, it is not an essential nutrient, so deficiency is not likely.
How much is usually taken? Some authorities report anecdotally that 250–500 mg per day has beneficial effects on a variety of health problems.6 However, the only controlled trial using MSM used over 2000 mg per day to treat osteoarthritis. More research is needed before reliable recommendations for MSM supplementation can be made.
Are there any side effects or interactions? According to some anecdotal reports, MSM has been used in human research for many years in amounts above 2000 mg per day with no significant adverse effects.7 However, diarrhea, skin rash, headache, and fatigue may be experienced in less than 20% of people, according to other anecdotal reports. Detectable levels of MSM in the brain of a person taking MSM supplements have been reported,8 but the significance of this finding, if any, is unclear.
At the time of writing, there were no well-known drug interactions with methylsulfonylmethane.
References:
1. Jacob SW, Herschler R. Dimethyl sulfoxide after twenty years. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1983;411:xiii–xvii.
2. Richmond VL. Incorporation of methylsulfonylmethane sulfur into guinea pig serum proteins. Life Sci 1986;39:263–8.
3. Rizzo R, Grandolfo M, Godeas C, et al. Calcium, sulfur, and zinc distribution in normal and arthritic articular equine cartilage: a synchrotron radiation-induced X-ray emission (SRIXE) study. J Exp Zool 1995;273:82–6.
4. Murav’ev IuV, Venikova MS, Pleskovskaia GN, et al. Effect of dimethyl sulfoxide and dimethyl sulfone on a destructive process in the joints of mice with spontaneous arthritis. Patol Fiziol Eksp Ter 1991;2:37–9 [in Russian].
5. Lawrence RM. Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM): a double-blind study of its use in degenerative arthritis. Int J of Anti-Aging Med 1998;1:50.
6. Jacob SW, Herschler R. Dimethyl sulfoxide after twenty years. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1983;411:xiii–xvii.
7. Jacob SW. Oregon Health Sciences University, Portland, Oregon. Unpublished communication.
8. Rose SE, Chalk JB, Galloway GJ, Doddrell DM. Detection of dimethyl sulfone in the human brain by in vivo proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy. Magn Reson Imaging 2000;18:95–8.
THeMaCHinE
New member
ChillyDog said:
Fish oil (not flax) in an amount that yields 5 - 10 grams of omega 3 long chains day may very well help too. Don't use cod liver oil.
Bulldog_10
New member
What SAMe? I've heard of it before, but wouldn't know where to look for it. Thanks alot machine, this is a big problem for her...and it causes problems for me...and she said it's been acting up recently...so I'd like to get this cleared up asap.
You've been a huge help bro...I'll hit ya with some more karma when i can.
You've been a huge help bro...I'll hit ya with some more karma when i can.
Bulldog_10
New member
And machine, how much do you pay for all this stuff? Since you've looked into it so much, I'm sure you use it all...where the cheapest place to get it?
THeMaCHinE
New member
SAMe
SAMe is an important biological agent in the human body, participating in over 40 essential biochemical reactions. SAMe participates in detoxification reactions and in the manufacture of brain chemicals, antioxidants, joint tissue structures, and many other important components.1 2
SAMe appears to raise levels of dopamine, an important neurotransmitter in mood regulation,3 and higher SAMe levels in the brain are associated with successful drug treatment of depression.4 Oral SAMe has been demonstrated to be an effective treatment for depression in some,5 6 7 8 though not all,9 double-blind studies. While it does not seem to be as powerful as full amounts of antidepressant medications10 or St. John’s wort, its effects are felt more rapidly, often within one week.11
SAMe possesses anti-inflammatory, pain-relieving, and tissue-healing properties that may help protect the health of joints.12 13 Several double-blind studies have shown that SAMe is useful for people with osteoarthritis, reducing pain, stiffness, and swelling better than placebos and equal to drugs such as ibuprofen and naproxen.14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
Intravenous SAMe given to fibromyalgia patients reduced pain and depression in two double-blind studies,22 23 but in a short (ten-day) trial no benefit was seen.24 Oral SAMe was tested in one double-blind study and significant beneficial effects were noticed, such as reduced pain, fatigue, and stiffness, and improved mood.25
Oral and intravenous treatment with SAMe replenishes important substances in damaged livers and improves the flow of bile.26 27 Preliminary research has indicated that SAMe may be helpful in a variety of liver conditions, including cholestasis, Gilbert’s syndrome, alcoholic liver injury, and cirrhosis.28 29 30 In alcoholic cirrhosis, damage to the liver prevents the natural formation of SAMe from the amino acid methionine. In a double-blind trial, people with cirrhosis of the liver due to alcoholism who took SAMe for two years had a 47% lower rate of death or need for liver transplantation, compared with those who received a placebo.31 However, the improvement did not quite achieve statistical significance. In people with less severe cirrhosis, the results were more impressive and were also statistically significant.
Preliminary research also suggests oral SAMe may increase sperm activity in infertile men32 and may be helpful in the treatment of migraine headaches.33 One double-blind study found injections of SAMe significantly more helpful than placebo injections for reducing the symptoms of post-concussion syndrome.34
Where is it found? SAMe is not abundant in the diet, though its precursor, the amino acid, methionine, is plentiful in many protein foods. It is not known whether increasing one’s intake of methionine will increase the body’s production of SAMe. Supplements of SAMe have been available in the U.S. since 1997.
Who is likely to be deficient? SAMe is normally produced in the liver from the amino acid, methionine, which is abundant in most diets. Folic acid and vitamin B12 are necessary for the synthesis of SAMe, and deficiencies of these vitamins results in low concentrations of SAMe in the central nervous system.35 Low blood or central nervous system levels of SAMe have been detected in people with cirrhosis of the liver,36 coronary heart disease,37 Alzheimer’s disease, and depression.38
How much is usually taken? Healthy people do not need to take this supplement. Researchers working with people suffering from a variety of conditions have been using these amounts of SAMe: depression, 1,600 mg per day; osteoarthritis, 800–1,200 mg per day; fibromyalgia, 800 mg per day; liver disorders, 1,200 mg per day; and migraine, 800 mg per day.
Are there any side effects or interactions? Clinical trials in thousands of people for up to two years have demonstrated that SAMe is very well tolerated, much better than the medications with which it has often been compared.39 40 Occasional gastrointestinal upset may be experienced by some people. Researchers treating people with bipolar disorder (manic depression) have reported that SAMe could cause them to switch from depression to a manic episode.41 42
Use of SAMe may be detrimental to people with Parkinson’s disease. Animal studies indicate that excessive methylation (methylation is one of the biochemical reactions promoted by SAMe) is associated with Parkinson’s disease43 and SAMe has caused Parkinson’s disease-like effects in animal studies.44 Both animal and human studies indicate that increased methylation can cause the depletion of dopamine and block the effects of L-dopa45 46 47 —changes that in theory should exacerbate symptoms of Parkinson’s disease. Preliminary evidence indicates that SAMe may improve the emotional depression and the impaired mental function that is often associated with Parkinson’s disease.48 Nonetheless, many healthcare professionals recommend that patients with Parkinson’s disease avoid supplementing with SAMe until more is known.
Are there any drug interactions? Certain medications may interact with SAMe. Refer to the drug interactions safety check for a list of those medications.
References:
1. Chiang PK, Gordon RK, Tal J, et al. S-Adenosylmethionine and methylation. FASEB J 1996;10:471–80 [review].
2. Bottiglieri T, Hyland K, Reynolds EH. The clinical potential of ademetionine (S-adenosylmethionine) in neurological disorders. Drugs 1994;48:137–52 [review].
3. Fava M, Rosenbaum JF, MacLaughlin R, et al. Neuroendocrine effects of S-adenosyl-L-methionine, a novel putativeantidepressant. J Psychiatr Res 1990;24:177–84.
4. Bell KM, Potkin SG, Carreon D, Plon L. S-adenosylmethionine blood levels in major depression: changes with drug treatment. Acta Neurol Scand 1994;154(suppl):15–8.
5. Bell KM, Potkin SG, Carreon D, Plon L. S-adenosylmethionine blood levels in major depression: changes with drug treatment. Acta Neurol Scand 1994;154(suppl):15–8.
6. Bressa GM. S-adenosyl-l-methionine (SAMe) as antidepressant: Meta-analysis of clinical studies. Acta Neurol Scand 1994;154(suppl):7–14.
7. Salmaggi P, Bressa GM, Nicchia G, et al. Double-blind, placebo-controlled study of s-adenosyl-methionine in depressed post-menopausal women. Psychother Psychosom 1993;59:34–40.
8. Kagan BL, Sultzer DL, Rosenlicht N, et al. Oral S-adenosyl-methionine in depression: A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Am J Psychiatry 1990;147:591–5.
9. Fava M, Rosenbaum JF, Birnbaum R, et al. The thyrotropin-releasing hormone as a predictor of response to treatment in depressed outpatients. Acta Psychiatr Scand 1992;86:42–5.
10. De Vanna M, Rigamonti R. Oral S-adenosyl-L-methionine in depression. Curr Ther Res 1992;52:478–85.
11. Fava M, Giannelli A, Rapisarda V. Rapidity of onset of the antidepressant effect of parenteral S-adenosyl-L-methionine. Psychiatr Res 1995;56:295–7.
12. Schumacher HR. Osteoarthritis: The clinical picture, pathogenesis, and management with studies on a new therapeutic agent, S-adenosylmethionine. Am J Med 1987;83(suppl 5A):1–4 [review].
13. Harmand MF, Vilamitjana J, Maloche E, et al. Effects of S-adenosylmethionine on human articular chondrocyte differentiation: an in vitro study. Am J Med 1987;83(suppl 5A):48–54.
14. Domljan Z, Vrhovac B, Durrigl T, Pucar I. A double-blind trial of ademetionine vs naproxen in activated gonarthrosis. Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther Toxicol 1989;27:329–33.
15. Muller-Fassbender H. Double-blind clinical trial of S-adenosylmethionine in versus ibuprofen in the treatment of osteoarthritis. Am J Med 1987;83(suppl 5A):81–3.
16. Vetter G. Double-blind comparative clinical trial with S-adenosylmethionine and indomethacin in the treatment of osteoarthritis. Am J Med 1987;83(suppl 5A):78–80.
17. Maccagno A. Double-blind controlled clinical trial of oral S-adenosylmethionine versus piroxicam in knee osteoarthritis. Am J Med 1987;83(suppl 5A):72–7.
18. Caruso I, Pietrogrande V. Italian double-blind multicenter study comparing S-adenosylmethionine, naproxen, and placebo in the treatment of degenerative joint disease. Am J Med 1987;83(suppl 5A):66–71.
19. Marcolongo R, Giordano N, Colombo B, et al. Double-blind multicentre study of the activity of s-adenosyl-methionine in hip and knee osteoarthritis. Curr Ther Res 1985;37:82–94.
20. Glorioso S, Todesco S, Mazzi A, et al. Double-blind multicentre study of the activity of S-adenosylmethionine in hip and knee osteoarthritis. Int J Clin Pharmacol Res 1985;5:39–49.
21. Montrone F, Fumagalli M, Sarzi Puttini P, et al. Double-blind study of S-adenosyl-methionine versus placebo in hip and knee arthrosis. Clin Rheumatol 1985;4:484–5.
22. Tavoni A, Jeracitano G, Cirigliano G. Evaluation of S-adenosylmethionine in secondary fibromyalgia: a double-blind study. Clin Exp Rheumatol 1998;16:106–7 [letter].
23. Tavoni A, Vitali C, Bombardieri S, et al. Evaluation of S-adenosylmethionine in primary fibromyalgia: a double-blind crossover study. Am J Med 1987;83(suppl 5A):107–10.
24. Volkmann H, Norregaard J, Jacobsen S, et al. Double-blind, placebo-controlled cross-over study of intravenous S-adenosyl-L-methionine in patients with fibromyalgia. Scand J Rheumatol 1997;26:206–11.
25. Jacobsen S, Danneskiold-Samsoe B, Andersen RB. Oral S-adenosylmethionine in primary fibromyalgia: double-blind clinical evaluation. Scand J Rheumatol 1991;20:294–302.
26. Lieber CS. Herman Award lecture, 1993: a personal perspective on alcohol, nutrition, and the liver. Am J Clin Nutr 1993;58:430–42 [review].
27. Osman E, Owen JS, Burroughs AK. S-adenosyl-L-methionine–a new therapeutic agent in liver disease? Aliment Pharmacol Ther 1993;7:21–8 [review].
28. Angelico M, Gandin C, Nistri A, et al. Oral S-adenosyl-L-methionine (SAMe) administration enhances bile salt conjugation with taurine in patients with liver cirrhosis. Scand J Clin Lab Invest 1994;54:459–64.
29. Frezza M, Surrenti C, Manzillo G, et al. Oral S-adenosyl-methionine in the symptomatic treatment of intrahepatic cholestasis: a double-blind, placebo-controlled study. Gastroenterology 1990;99:211–5.
30. Bombardieri G, Milani A, Bernardi L, Rossi L. Effects of S-adenosyl-L-methionine (SAMe) in the treatment of Gilbert’s syndrome. Curr Ther Res 1985;37:580–5.
31. Mato JM, Cámara J, Fernández J, et al. S-adenosylmethionine in alcoholic liver cirrhosis: a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, multicenter clinical trial. J Hepatol 1999;30:1081–9.
32. Piacentino R, Malara D, Zaccheo F, et al. Preliminary study of the use of s. adenosyl methionine in the management of male sterility. Minerva Ginecol 1991;43:191–3 [in Italian].
33. Gatto G, Caleri D, Michelacci S, Sicuteri F. Analgesizing effect of a methyl donor (S-adenosylmethionine) in migraine: an open clinical trial. Int J Clin Pharmacol Res 1986;6:15–7.
34. Ballerini FB, Anguera AL, Alcaraz P, et al. SAM in the management of postconcussional syndrome. Med Clin (Barc) 1983;80:161–4.
35. Bottiglieri T, Hyland K, Reynolds EH. The clinical potential of ademetionine (S-adenosylmethionine) in neurological disorders. Drugs 1994;48:137–52 [review].
36. Osman E, Owen JS, Burroughs AK. S-adenosyl-L-methionine–a new therapeutic agent in liver disease? Aliment Pharmacol Ther 1993;7:21–8 [review].
37. Loehrer FM, Angst CP, Haefeli WE, et al. Low whole-blood S-adenosylmethionine and correlation between 5-methyltetrahydrofolate and homocysteine in coronary artery disease. Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol 1996;16:727–33.
38. Bottiglieri T, Godfrey P, Flynn T, et al. Cerebrospinal fluid S-adenosylmethionine in depression and dementia: effects of treatment with parenteral and oral S-adenosylmethionine. J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry 1990;53:1096–8.
39. Bressa GM. S-adenosyl-l-methionine (SAMe) as antidepressant: meta-analysis of clinical studies. Acta Neurol Scand 1994;154(suppl):7–14.
40. Di Padova C. S-adenosyl-methionine in the treatment of osteoarthritis: review of the clinical studies. Am J Med 1987;83(suppl 5A):60–4.
41. Carney MWP, Chary TK, Bottiglieri T, et al. The switch mechanism and the bipolar/unipolar dichotomy. Br J Psychiatry 1989;154:48–51.
42. Carney MWP, Chary TK, Bottiglieri T, et al. Switch and S-adenosyl-methionine. Alabama J Med Sci 1988;25:316–9.
43. Charlton CG, Mack J. Substantia nigra degeneration and tyrosine hydroxylase depletion caused by excess S-adenosylmethionine in the rat brain. Support for an excess methylation hypothesis for parkinsonism. Mol Neurobiol 1994;9:149–61.
44. Crowell BG Jr, Benson R, Shockley D, Charlton CG. S-adenosyl-L-methionine decreases motor activity in the rat: similarity to Parkinson’s disease-like symptoms. Behav Neural Biol 1993;59:186–93.
45. Benson R, Crowell B, Hill B, et al. The effects of L-dopa on the activity of methionine adenosyltransferase: relevance to L-dopa therapy and tolerance. Neurochem Res 1993;18:325–30.
46. Cheng H, Gomes-Trolin C, Aquilonius SM, et al. Levels of L-methionine S-adenosyltransferase activity in erythrocytes and concentrations of S-adenosylmethionine and S-adenosylhomocysteine in whole blood of patients with Parkinson’s disease. Exp Neurol 1997;145:580–5.
47. Charlton CG, Crowell B Jr. Parkinson’s disease-like effects of S-adenosyl-L-methionine: effects of L-dopa. Pharmacol Biochem Behav 1992;43:423–31.
48. Bottiglieri T, Hyland K, Reynolds EH. The clinical potential of ademetionine (S-adenosylmethionine) in neurological disorders. Drugs 1994;48:137–52 [review].
Bulldog_10 said:What SAMe? I've heard of it before, but wouldn't know where to look for it. Thanks alot machine, this is a big problem for her...and it causes problems for me...and she said it's been acting up recently...so I'd like to get this cleared up asap.
You've been a huge help bro...I'll hit ya with some more karma when i can.
SAMe is an important biological agent in the human body, participating in over 40 essential biochemical reactions. SAMe participates in detoxification reactions and in the manufacture of brain chemicals, antioxidants, joint tissue structures, and many other important components.1 2
SAMe appears to raise levels of dopamine, an important neurotransmitter in mood regulation,3 and higher SAMe levels in the brain are associated with successful drug treatment of depression.4 Oral SAMe has been demonstrated to be an effective treatment for depression in some,5 6 7 8 though not all,9 double-blind studies. While it does not seem to be as powerful as full amounts of antidepressant medications10 or St. John’s wort, its effects are felt more rapidly, often within one week.11
SAMe possesses anti-inflammatory, pain-relieving, and tissue-healing properties that may help protect the health of joints.12 13 Several double-blind studies have shown that SAMe is useful for people with osteoarthritis, reducing pain, stiffness, and swelling better than placebos and equal to drugs such as ibuprofen and naproxen.14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
Intravenous SAMe given to fibromyalgia patients reduced pain and depression in two double-blind studies,22 23 but in a short (ten-day) trial no benefit was seen.24 Oral SAMe was tested in one double-blind study and significant beneficial effects were noticed, such as reduced pain, fatigue, and stiffness, and improved mood.25
Oral and intravenous treatment with SAMe replenishes important substances in damaged livers and improves the flow of bile.26 27 Preliminary research has indicated that SAMe may be helpful in a variety of liver conditions, including cholestasis, Gilbert’s syndrome, alcoholic liver injury, and cirrhosis.28 29 30 In alcoholic cirrhosis, damage to the liver prevents the natural formation of SAMe from the amino acid methionine. In a double-blind trial, people with cirrhosis of the liver due to alcoholism who took SAMe for two years had a 47% lower rate of death or need for liver transplantation, compared with those who received a placebo.31 However, the improvement did not quite achieve statistical significance. In people with less severe cirrhosis, the results were more impressive and were also statistically significant.
Preliminary research also suggests oral SAMe may increase sperm activity in infertile men32 and may be helpful in the treatment of migraine headaches.33 One double-blind study found injections of SAMe significantly more helpful than placebo injections for reducing the symptoms of post-concussion syndrome.34
Where is it found? SAMe is not abundant in the diet, though its precursor, the amino acid, methionine, is plentiful in many protein foods. It is not known whether increasing one’s intake of methionine will increase the body’s production of SAMe. Supplements of SAMe have been available in the U.S. since 1997.
Who is likely to be deficient? SAMe is normally produced in the liver from the amino acid, methionine, which is abundant in most diets. Folic acid and vitamin B12 are necessary for the synthesis of SAMe, and deficiencies of these vitamins results in low concentrations of SAMe in the central nervous system.35 Low blood or central nervous system levels of SAMe have been detected in people with cirrhosis of the liver,36 coronary heart disease,37 Alzheimer’s disease, and depression.38
How much is usually taken? Healthy people do not need to take this supplement. Researchers working with people suffering from a variety of conditions have been using these amounts of SAMe: depression, 1,600 mg per day; osteoarthritis, 800–1,200 mg per day; fibromyalgia, 800 mg per day; liver disorders, 1,200 mg per day; and migraine, 800 mg per day.
Are there any side effects or interactions? Clinical trials in thousands of people for up to two years have demonstrated that SAMe is very well tolerated, much better than the medications with which it has often been compared.39 40 Occasional gastrointestinal upset may be experienced by some people. Researchers treating people with bipolar disorder (manic depression) have reported that SAMe could cause them to switch from depression to a manic episode.41 42
Use of SAMe may be detrimental to people with Parkinson’s disease. Animal studies indicate that excessive methylation (methylation is one of the biochemical reactions promoted by SAMe) is associated with Parkinson’s disease43 and SAMe has caused Parkinson’s disease-like effects in animal studies.44 Both animal and human studies indicate that increased methylation can cause the depletion of dopamine and block the effects of L-dopa45 46 47 —changes that in theory should exacerbate symptoms of Parkinson’s disease. Preliminary evidence indicates that SAMe may improve the emotional depression and the impaired mental function that is often associated with Parkinson’s disease.48 Nonetheless, many healthcare professionals recommend that patients with Parkinson’s disease avoid supplementing with SAMe until more is known.
Are there any drug interactions? Certain medications may interact with SAMe. Refer to the drug interactions safety check for a list of those medications.
References:
1. Chiang PK, Gordon RK, Tal J, et al. S-Adenosylmethionine and methylation. FASEB J 1996;10:471–80 [review].
2. Bottiglieri T, Hyland K, Reynolds EH. The clinical potential of ademetionine (S-adenosylmethionine) in neurological disorders. Drugs 1994;48:137–52 [review].
3. Fava M, Rosenbaum JF, MacLaughlin R, et al. Neuroendocrine effects of S-adenosyl-L-methionine, a novel putativeantidepressant. J Psychiatr Res 1990;24:177–84.
4. Bell KM, Potkin SG, Carreon D, Plon L. S-adenosylmethionine blood levels in major depression: changes with drug treatment. Acta Neurol Scand 1994;154(suppl):15–8.
5. Bell KM, Potkin SG, Carreon D, Plon L. S-adenosylmethionine blood levels in major depression: changes with drug treatment. Acta Neurol Scand 1994;154(suppl):15–8.
6. Bressa GM. S-adenosyl-l-methionine (SAMe) as antidepressant: Meta-analysis of clinical studies. Acta Neurol Scand 1994;154(suppl):7–14.
7. Salmaggi P, Bressa GM, Nicchia G, et al. Double-blind, placebo-controlled study of s-adenosyl-methionine in depressed post-menopausal women. Psychother Psychosom 1993;59:34–40.
8. Kagan BL, Sultzer DL, Rosenlicht N, et al. Oral S-adenosyl-methionine in depression: A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Am J Psychiatry 1990;147:591–5.
9. Fava M, Rosenbaum JF, Birnbaum R, et al. The thyrotropin-releasing hormone as a predictor of response to treatment in depressed outpatients. Acta Psychiatr Scand 1992;86:42–5.
10. De Vanna M, Rigamonti R. Oral S-adenosyl-L-methionine in depression. Curr Ther Res 1992;52:478–85.
11. Fava M, Giannelli A, Rapisarda V. Rapidity of onset of the antidepressant effect of parenteral S-adenosyl-L-methionine. Psychiatr Res 1995;56:295–7.
12. Schumacher HR. Osteoarthritis: The clinical picture, pathogenesis, and management with studies on a new therapeutic agent, S-adenosylmethionine. Am J Med 1987;83(suppl 5A):1–4 [review].
13. Harmand MF, Vilamitjana J, Maloche E, et al. Effects of S-adenosylmethionine on human articular chondrocyte differentiation: an in vitro study. Am J Med 1987;83(suppl 5A):48–54.
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Bulldog_10
New member
Holy shit! Thanks bro...where do you buy this stuff from? You must know where to get it cheap.
THeMaCHinE
New member
Bulldog_10 said:
I buy them all (the four that I mentioned above) in bulk powder form from BAC. Very reasonable all-in-all.
https://www2.acadia.net/cgi-bin/BAC/web_store.cgi
Well Bulldog I have had great results from MSM. I have been using it for about 4 years now for shoulder problems, and while they never go away the pain is far less when I am taking the MSM. I do however take atleast 12 grams a day (rec. dosage is like 2 g. day) but it is nontoxic and water soluble. I like the fact that its effects are felt quickly, like in a few days, unlike glucosamine and chondroitin.
THeMaCHinE
New member
The Terminator said:
It doesn't go away because it doesn't do anything to heal the problem, it just treats the symptom. Do you notice any difference between it and alleve or something similar?
THeMaCHinE said:
I have tried aspirin, ibuprofen but they were not cutting it. My shoulder injury was pretty major and had me out of the gym for 6 months, but within 2 weeks of taking it I was able to start training again (and this after months of not being able to lift my arm out in front of me). Also it is superior to OTC pain relievers in that it is not harsh on the liver and kidneys, whereas common OTC preperations are.
THeMaCHinE
New member
The Terminator said:
I can understand if it offers you pain relief. Maybe you should give the above stack a shot in conjunction with the MSM and see if it helps?
P.S. Have you ever hit deca since your shoulder injury? I know there's no concensus, but anecdotally, I've had great success with deca and joint injuries...
juicetothegills
New member
Hey bulldog how about trying msm
