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Jkurz I have a suggestion...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Debaser
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Debaser

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If I designed a training cycle for you to follow for 8-10 weeks, would you do it? It would be HST-based.

I'd like to see if I can make you rethink some things.
 
Debaser said:
If I designed a training cycle for you to follow for 8-10 weeks, would you do it? It would be HST-based.

I'd like to see if I can make you rethink some things.
Click to expand...

impossible, his ego is way too big...
 
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Debaser,
I've never tried HST and I definitely have a hard time buying into but part of that is the confusion of what to do when. I'm open to trying it.
 
halfaclue said:
Debaser,
I've never tried HST and I definitely have a hard time buying into but part of that is the confusion of what to do when. I'm open to trying it.
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its east, 1-2 sets per muscle, every 48 hrs, progressing in weight each session
weeks 1-2 reps of 15, week 3-4 reps of 10, lst 4 weeks reps of 5. slow and controlled on the way down, exploding on the way up, if u choose to.

i did 3 sets for my lagging body parts like calves and forearms. it worked nicely

i tried it for a 2nd time and halfway through wasnt feeling it as much as the first time. ill switch every now and then back to it. i think its a good way to add size and i noticed muscle shaping the most with all the slow reps. id do it 1-2 times a year
 
I'd like to see what Debaser comes up with but I doubt Jkurz would adopt it...

People want to think they are making the "best gains of their life" all the time regardless if their training is actually working or not....everyone needs to leave their ego at the door and try something new once in awhile....
 
InTraining said:
I'd like to see what Debaser comes up with but I doubt Jkurz would adopt it...

People want to think they are making the "best gains of their life" all the time regardless if their training is actually working or not....everyone needs to leave their ego at the door and try something new once in awhile....
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exactly, i used to be that kind of guy who would knock all training that i didnt like or that thought wouldnt work.. what a big mistake, good thing i caught it in time.
 
A lot of it is psychological. I mean, if I'm not doing high volume workouts and pounding the muscle everytime I'm in the gym I feel like I'm not having a good workout. Granted, even if a routine like HST were actually working, the psychological effect would tell me that it's not and I would quickly abandon it.
 
I'll get to this today sometime, I have to run a few errands right now.
 
You might not be "blasting the muscle" on HST but when you get done with the first week you are hurting. Then you get a little more used to it.
 
Hey, I'm ready for a change.........full go........soon as I see that layout, 'll start....but, if he's not back within 2.5 when I train, it's gonna have to wait to next Monday...............sooner, and I start today.
 
Well, starting HST involves testing your 15, 10, and 5 rep maxes (on separate days) and then taking 9 days off. If you know the maxes you can just take the time off first.
 
Backlash said:
Well, starting HST involves testing your 15, 10, and 5 rep maxes (on separate days) and then taking 9 days off. If you know the maxes you can just take the time off first.
Click to expand...

I'm definitely interested in this but I need HST for dummies. How do i know what excercises to use for back? I would want DL's but every HST routine I've seen doesn't use dead lifts for back. Also how do you figure out all those max figures? If you do 24 excercises for the 3 day HST week (8 a day) then that is 72 sets to figure out all those maxes....is this right or am I missing something. Talk to me like the name says..I have half-a-clue right now.
 
Okay. Halfaclue, first off you'd choose the exercises you plan to use. I ran an HST cycle myself, and it worked wonders. I plan to do one again some time after I finish my current routine. Anyway, I used SLDLs rather than regular deads. This targetted my lower back, hams and glutes all at once. I coupled these with squats.

You can use deadlifts, though. It depends on how well you recover, because some people can't deal with deadlifting three times a week. Honestly, I think anyone can adapt to doing them this frequent. So, first choose the exercises you want to use. Focus on major compound movements and only a handful of isolation. Try to keep it rather abbreviated. Something like:

Squats
SLDLs
Heel Raises
Widegrip Pullups
Weighted Dips
Incline Bench
Yates' Row
Dumbbell OHP
Dumbbell Curl
Behind-The-Back Wrist Curls

That's basically what I did, coupled with weightless ab work and bridges for the neck.

You'll be preforming 1-2 sets of each exercise. Assuming you workout M.W.F. you'll find the 15-RM for the chosen exercises on Monday. Wednesday, the 10-RM and Friday the 5-RM.

After this, take the entire next week off. That following Monday, you start off with the lightest weight. Assuming your 15-RM on, squats let's say, was 200 lbs., you'd count back 5 times using the incretment of your choosing. Okay, so, you workout 6 times in the two week block of 15s. The last workout will be your 15-RM, in this case, 200 lbs. Squats being a big movement can be done with a 10 lb. incretment. So, you'd be starting at 150 on workout 1. Workout 2, 160, 170, 180, 190, and ending at 200. Get it?

If you need more help, IM me. Seeking Solace 0, if you have AIM. If not, PM me or post here.
 
Tom Treutlein said:
Okay. Halfaclue, first off you'd choose the exercises you plan to use. I ran an HST cycle myself, and it worked wonders. I plan to do one again some time after I finish my current routine. Anyway, I used SLDLs rather than regular deads. This targetted my lower back, hams and glutes all at once. I coupled these with squats.

You can use deadlifts, though. It depends on how well you recover, because some people can't deal with deadlifting three times a week. Honestly, I think anyone can adapt to doing them this frequent. So, first choose the exercises you want to use. Focus on major compound movements and only a handful of isolation. Try to keep it rather abbreviated. Something like:

Squats
SLDLs
Heel Raises
Widegrip Pullups
Weighted Dips
Incline Bench
Yates' Row
Dumbbell OHP
Dumbbell Curl
Behind-The-Back Wrist Curls

That's basically what I did, coupled with weightless ab work and bridges for the neck.

You'll be preforming 1-2 sets of each exercise. Assuming you workout M.W.F. you'll find the 15-RM for the chosen exercises on Monday. Wednesday, the 10-RM and Friday the 5-RM.

After this, take the entire next week off. That following Monday, you start off with the lightest weight. Assuming your 15-RM on, squats let's say, was 200 lbs., you'd count back 5 times using the incretment of your choosing. Okay, so, you workout 6 times in the two week block of 15s. The last workout will be your 15-RM, in this case, 200 lbs. Squats being a big movement can be done with a 10 lb. incretment. So, you'd be starting at 150 on workout 1. Workout 2, 160, 170, 180, 190, and ending at 200. Get it?

If you need more help, IM me. Seeking Solace 0, if you have AIM. If not, PM me or post here.
Click to expand...

I'm getting there....So with your example..i'm doing squats week 1 at 150 lbs. Do I do as many as i can each of the two sets or do i stop at 15 for both sets?
 
Oh, yeah you stop at 15. You do 15 reps for all exercises the first two weeks, 10 reps the second two weeks, and 5 the last two weeks. That's why they're called 15, 10 and 5 rep weeks. ;)

Also, people tend to do an 8 week cycle by using the 5's for two extra weeks, or doing heavy negatives. I don't like the idea of the negatives, so I won't go into that, but after you hit your 5 RM on the 6th workout, you use the next 2 weeks (6 workouts) to milk as much growth out of that weight, since the body can continue to grow off the same weight for a small period, just that its kind've a cash of diminishing returns, I guess. You can also continue to improve strength.

So, if your 5-RM was 450 on squats, you'd go ahead and hit that. If you hit 2x5 for 450, then the next workout, try 460 2x5. If you don't hit that, stay at 460 until you hit it, and keep trying to bump the weight up until the 8 weeks are complete.

Many people end up making the best size gains during the 10's and maybe 1st week of 5's. The 5's will probably build more towards strength if anything. A lot of people also do only 6-week cycles and still end up with great gains.

By the way, that SD (strategic deconditioning) period is imperative, as are the 15's. Not much growth will occur during the 15's, but they do serve a purpose, so don't skip them. Do the program as outlined. After you finish a cycle the way it should be done, then you can play around with the variables. Here's a 15 page thread on testimonies of peoples' success with HST. I love it, it really makes me want to try it more and more, as does my personal experience with it. 9 lbs. and dropped bodyfat here.

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=14;t=21;act=ST;f=14;t=21
 
Tom Treutlein said:
Many people end up making the best size gains during the 10's and maybe 1st week of 5's. The 5's will probably build more towards strength if anything. A lot of people also do only 6-week cycles and still end up with great gains.

By the way, that SD (strategic deconditioning) period is imperative, as are the 15's. Not much growth will occur during the 15's, but they do serve a purpose, so don't skip them. Do the program as outlined. After you finish a cycle the way it should be done, then you can play around with the variables. Here's a 15 page thread on testimonies of peoples' success with HST. I love it, it really makes me want to try it more and more, as does my personal experience with it. 9 lbs. and dropped bodyfat here.

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=14;t=21;act=ST;f=14;t=21
Click to expand...

Im not exactly sold on the HST full body routines, but i like certain aspects of it.

I totally agree that people are probably gaining their most mass from doing the sets of 10 reps, and their strenght gains from the sets of 5 reps, and probably cutting from the 15 reps.
The 10 rep technique can be quite instrumental, i have utilized this on bench for almost 2 years now and im stronger than ever.
 
cwick0 said:
Im not exactly sold on the HST full body routines, but i like certain aspects of it.

I totally agree that people are probably gaining their most mass from doing the sets of 10 reps, and their strenght gains from the sets of 5 reps, and probably cutting from the 15 reps.
The 10 rep technique can be quite instrumental, i have utilized this on bench for almost 2 years now and im stronger than ever.
Click to expand...
hence 5x5..you hit it all in one workout ;)
 
I dont care for the 5x5 to add much mass, more strength than anything else.
For me to add mass, i have to do sets of 10 reps.
 
The 5x5 routine isn't as scientifically sound as HST when it comes to putting on mass. HST has devised in the lab why the muscles grow, and puts those principles to the best use possible. The acute effects of anabolism that occur after training peak after 24 hours and return to baseline by 48 hours, which means that to be in a constant state of growth, one should train every other day, as is implemented with HST.

Honestly, you can just train every other day, not just M/W/F. You don't need the weekends off, it just fits into a person's schedule better. Of course, some people might need or want the extra day for either a mental break or so they don't overtrain. I never took two days off in a row...except when I had a hangover once. Other than that, I blazed right through the program pretty damn quick. I figure that, if you can deal with every other day, you can finish the program in a little over a month, plus a week of deconditioning, basically cutting it down to a 5-6 week cycle. You can fit 8 of those in a year, while taking a month off throughout the year. I mean, nothing is set in stone, but if diet is sound and the progression and other principles are there, you can add a shit load of mass with this program.

Too much ranting. My head hurts.
 
wnt2bBeast said:
hence 5x5..you hit it all in one workout ;)
Click to expand...
You guys are missing the fact that HST is periodized. Your muscles can't adapt to the stimulation because the rep range and weights are contantly changing.

With the standard run of the mill 5x5 (which i've tried and liked), it is not periodized, you just go until you plateau at which point most people switch over to 5x3....

HST implements more opportunities to recover equating more growth combined with periodization....
 
drbones2 said:
You guys are missing the fact that HST is periodized. Your muscles can't adapt to the stimulation because the rep range and weights are contantly changing.

With the standard run of the mill 5x5 (which i've tried and liked), it is not periodized, you just go until you plateau at which point most people switch over to 5x3....

HST implements more opportunities to recover equating more growth combined with periodization....
Click to expand...
umm last time i looked the weights constantly change in 5x5 as well!!!after 5x3 your supposed to go back to your 5x5 sticking point and break it then continue progressing at 5x5..periodization isnt the only way to grow..
 
JKurz1 said:
Oak - why are you such a prick? Debaser - It'd be my pleasure.......light it up....
Click to expand...

i didnt know i was........................................................................................................................... :)
 
I want to try HST in the next few months or maybe switch to it forever as size is my main concern....

Finding a 15 RM would be kind of a challenge as I have no idea what I can do for 15 reps in any exercise..

I guess the idea is after the week or so of deconditioning one should start very low and just build up from there....
 
wnt2bBeast said:
umm last time i looked the weights constantly change in 5x5 as well!!!after 5x3 your supposed to go back to your 5x5 sticking point and break it then continue progressing at 5x5..periodization isnt the only way to grow..
Click to expand...
Please let me know exactly where I said periodization was the only way to grow?

Thanks
 
InTraining said:
I want to try HST in the next few months or maybe switch to it forever as size is my main concern....

Finding a 15 RM would be kind of a challenge as I have no idea what I can do for 15 reps in any exercise..

I guess the idea is after the week or so of deconditioning one should start very low and just build up from there....
Click to expand...


SO let's all get on this routine together....we'll have one thread and post on results, weights, poundage after each workout......the rep scheme is def. different, but one that I could adapt......people tend to confuse high reps withcutting and low reps with bulking, but that's not the case....it's diet folks, sure you may not be able to as heavy when you are cutting because of low energy stores, but you should try to max the pounds every time in the gym......I'm pumped out to start this.......I'm going to find my rep max tomorrow and then start next Monday......the 9 days off will be cut to 6......no training wed - sunday........if I make it though that, I'll be pretty damn pround of myself......cardio is ok during this time?
 
JKurz1 said:
SO let's all get on this routine together....we'll have one thread and post on results, weights, poundage after each workout......the rep scheme is def. different, but one that I could adapt......people tend to confuse high reps withcutting and low reps with bulking, but that's not the case....it's diet folks, sure you may not be able to as heavy when you are cutting because of low energy stores, but you should try to max the pounds every time in the gym......I'm pumped out to start this.......I'm going to find my rep max tomorrow and then start next Monday......the 9 days off will be cut to 6......no training wed - sunday........if I make it though that, I'll be pretty damn pround of myself......cardio is ok during this time?
Click to expand...
youre a bigger man than me Jkurz.. im on a roll so i am not about to change my routine..but good luck and be true to the routine dont let your mind try to tell you its not going to work..who knows maybe it wont maybe it will..at least youwil know once and for all..good luck!!
 
It will. As long as diet is in place, it has to work. Everyone is different, but some general physiology still applies.

JKurz, I'd say, don't skimp on the SD period at all to get the full benefit. You can do some cardio, but I'd keep it limited to Tuesday/Thursday, low-moderate intensity. Eat plenty of food. If you read all the stuff on the HST website it will explain a lot of things. It'd be ideal to consume 15-20% of your total calories from protein.

You need to find your 15-RM, 10-RM and 5-RM, not just one. You must do it for all the exercises. You can't find them all in the same day, so don't try to get them all at once. Tomorrow is Wednesday. Find your 15 then, your 10 Friday, and 5 Sunday. Wait until the next Wednesday and start there.
 
drbones2 said:
Please let me know exactly where I said periodization was the only way to grow?

Thanks
Click to expand...
well you argued that hst is perodized and 5x5 is not.. and inferred that hst is better than 5x5..perhaps for you and your goals it is..ive never done it since it doesnt suite my needs..besides this is not the point of this thread so no need to get defensive about your post...
 
JKurz1 said:
SO let's all get on this routine together....we'll have one thread and post on results, weights, poundage after each workout......the rep scheme is def. different, but one that I could adapt......people tend to confuse high reps withcutting and low reps with bulking, but that's not the case....it's diet folks, sure you may not be able to as heavy when you are cutting because of low energy stores, but you should try to max the pounds every time in the gym......I'm pumped out to start this.......I'm going to find my rep max tomorrow and then start next Monday......the 9 days off will be cut to 6......no training wed - sunday........if I make it though that, I'll be pretty damn pround of myself......cardio is ok during this time?
Click to expand...

Cool man.hope it works out well for you!..yes I will definitely be doing it at some point but right now what I'm doing is working very well and I have no desire to change until I stagnate in this current routine...

Yeh I never understood why people think 15 reps is too high...heavy is relative...in DC training bis and tris are routinely done for 20-30 reps RP style and personally I have gotten good results from this style with biceps...
 
InTraining said:
Cool man.hope it works out well for you!..yes I will definitely be doing it at some point but right now what I'm doing is working very well and I have no desire to change until I stagnate in this current routine...

Yeh I never understood why people think 15 reps is too high...heavy is relative...in DC training bis and tris are routinely done for 20-30 reps RP style and personally I have gotten good results from this style with biceps...
Click to expand...
rest pause and doing a stright set for 15 are a little different..but my guess would be most people dont do reps of 15 because of ego!!! ;)
 
wnt2bBeast said:
rest pause and doing a stright set for 15 are a little different..but my guess would be most people dont do reps of 15 because of ego!!! ;)
Click to expand...

Agree totally man...but I'm saying that the first of the 3 RP sets often goes upwards of 15-20 in DC..and it works well for people...

Also we must realize that the negatives in DC and HST are supposed to be done slower than usual, around 4-5 seconds I've read..which has a huge effect on growth...

Agree about the Ego as well ;)
 
cwick0 said:
I dont care for the 5x5 to add much mass, more strength than anything else.
For me to add mass, i have to do sets of 10 reps.
Click to expand...


Same for me also. This is why I stopped the 5X5 once I got my strength up. I like to incorporate the full spectrum of rep ranges in my bench workouts, so I went back to my old routine.
 
Keep us updated on your progress with the routine brother!! Will be interesting to see how a high volume trainer responds to this routine! Keep KILLING that shit!!
 
I'm also really interested in this, I was thinking of starting a routine when I return off of leave, but am still trying to research more about it. I would be starting in October, but do my first week in the end of september on leave, and the resting 9 days at the end of my leave and travel back. And if anyone has more sites to read up more and a really indepth sample routine, Id appreciate it!!!

thanks in advance
 
Deb - must have gotten lost...........this is what happened last time he said he would develop a plan if I swore to adhere by it..........personally, 5x5 with a few extra working sets in the higher rep range worked pretty damn well for me..............
 
Tom Thanks for all the info. I've been doing 5*5 for 2 months now and my strength is still going up in everything and I've been off for over 2 months so i am going to stick with this 5*5 for a little while longer. I'm doing some reading on the HST site as well. Looking forward to trying it and i'll post a thread when i start...actually i'll probbaly PM you so you can help me set it up.
 
JKurz1 said:
we'll have one thread and post on results, weights, poundage after each workout..
Click to expand...

A thread exists for that already, sort of. Please keep all posts about HST on that thread so that it becomes THE definitive thread that answers all questions about HST (like the old one was before all that bullshit where the threads got deleted several months ago).

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=283460

That is linked in the sticky as well.
 
wnt2bBeast said:
rest pause and doing a stright set for 15 are a little different..but my guess would be most people dont do reps of 15 because of ego!!! ;)
Click to expand...

Hey, Hey, Hey,
15 isnt exactly an ego thing. I have no trouble doing a set of flat or incline barbell with a HEAVY set of 15 for my last set at a particular weight. Ive been known to do a set of 10, 12, then 15 reps at the same weight, mainly because im not fully warmed up for the first set.
 
cwick0 said:
Hey, Hey, Hey,
15 isnt exactly an ego thing. I have no trouble doing a set of flat or incline barbell with a HEAVY set of 15 for my last set at a particular weight. Ive been known to do a set of 10, 12, then 15 reps at the same weight, mainly because im not fully warmed up for the first set.
Click to expand...
i think you misunderstood..but you proved that you DONT have an ego!! i meant that most people dont do straight sets of 15 because obviously they would have to use a lighter weight..its not cool to curl 30 lbs dbells when u can use 60 or 70's for 1 -3 poor reps.. you see it all the time i would never joke at someone because they were using a light weight..how many times do you see guys with bad squat form that only go up to 225 and their first set/warmup whatever u want to call it is 135..i squat a hell of a lot more than 225 and i go with just the bar for 1-2 sets of high reps
 
wnt2bBeast said:
i think you misunderstood..but you proved that you DONT have an ego!! i meant that most people dont do straight sets of 15 because obviously they would have to use a lighter weight..its not cool to curl 30 lbs dbells when u can use 60 or 70's for 1 -3 poor reps.. you see it all the time i would never joke at someone because they were using a light weight..how many times do you see guys with bad squat form that only go up to 225 and their first set/warmup whatever u want to call it is 135..i squat a hell of a lot more than 225 and i go with just the bar for 1-2 sets of high reps
Click to expand...

I assumed what you meant, but wanted to clarify things. NO biggie.

Yes, there are a lot of idiots in the gym. I only wish they would ask someone so they know what the hell they are doing.
 
Basically jkurz use this time to find your 15, 10, and 5 rep maxes for the following exercises:

ATF squat
Bench or hammer chest press
Overhand grip row (I prefer cable)
Overhead press
Parallel grip chin (palms facing each other, a bit less than shoulder-width apart)
Standing calf raise (make sure you're doing these slow and controlled)
Hyperextensions (make sure you go from a fully rounded back position to a fully arched one)
Barbell curl if you want, but I don't think it's necessary
 
Big note on rows, almost no one does them properly, try this (taken from the hst forum):

A perfect row should go like this:

1. No motion at the hips... this is not a glutes and hammies exercise. Keep the hips at approximately 90 degrees and don't rock.

2. Begin the motion by drawing the arms back without changing the bend in the elbows. The only way to do this is to draw your shoulder blades together. If you cannot pull the bar back a few inches without bending your arms, you are not getting those scaps moving.

3. Once the scaps are drawn together, pull back through the elbows, lifting the rib cage at the same time. Imagine you are doing a chin and try to lift that chest up as you pull the elbows back. This definitely requires motion in the thoracic spine.

4. Remember, this exercise is about squeezing the back and not about what the bar is doing. When you can't squeeze your back any harder the bar is as close to you as it needs to get. If you pull that bar to the belly as many people do and let the shoulders roll forward you are dropping that resistance right off the muscles you are trying to target.
 
Try and do one session today, one tomorrow, one thursday. Yes it will be hard but you're about to take 10 days off so it won't matter. After that take friday/this weekend, and the entire next week off completely from training (make sure you still eat correctly). Training starts Monday the 30th.
 
OK...why no str8 bar rows, deads, military? I need to sub. Incline Bench for Flat cause my rotator cuff wont let me at the moment - unless I dont want to use my right shoulder for a few days.....need t get it checked out.......no tri movement?
 
JKurz1 said:
OK...why no str8 bar rows, deads, military? I need to sub. Incline Bench for Flat cause my rotator cuff wont let me at the moment - unless I dont want to use my right shoulder for a few days.....need t get it checked out.......no tri movement?
Click to expand...

There are rows there, as long as you use proper form I don't care which form of rowing you do. It's not a good idea to do squats and deads in the same session IMO, because it burns out your CNS very quickly. The squats and hyperextensions will be quite enough for your lower back. Military press = overhead press, I don't care if you do them standing or seated. I prefer standing.

Incline bench is fine...try and make it a fairly low incline (like 20 degrees).

Triceps already get hammered in the bench and overhead press.
 
That is fairly low amount of exercises for HST...not that that is a bad thing

I have seen people do 2-3 exercises for the big muscle groups and they report good gains..

Might want to talk to casualbb..he is the resident HST expert...

Also I think adding a tri movement like lying tricep extensions would be fine..if you are doing barbell curls you should add a tri movement to balance it out..even though they are used heavily in the overhead press and chest press movements
 
Progam looks good, but I have a ?.....how come you can't do 1/2 (say upper) on day one and 1/2 (lower) on day 2, with a 2 on 1 off sequence? No enough rest?
 
program looks solid, personally, i would rather do trap bar deads then squats, i think i may try this as well. good job debaser
 
JKurz1 said:
OK...why no str8 bar rows, deads, military? I need to sub. Incline Bench for Flat cause my rotator cuff wont let me at the moment - unless I dont want to use my right shoulder for a few days.....need t get it checked out.......no tri movement?
Click to expand...

Hey bro,
One of my buddies in the gym several weeks ago threw a 25lb plate under the flat bench. It just changed the angle slightly and he said it takes all of the pressure off his shoulders. I never tried it, so you get to be the ginny pig for this one.
wick
 
cwick0 said:
Hey bro,
One of my buddies in the gym several weeks ago threw a 25lb plate under the flat bench. It just changed the angle slightly and he said it takes all of the pressure off his shoulders. I never tried it, so you get to be the ginny pig for this one.
wick
Click to expand...

huh....I'll have to give that a try!! thanks again
 
I think I'm gonna fail......hate to admit it, but I can't do it any more....I've gone 5 days w/o training and, although I feel good, I need to train today for mental release....work has been hectic, my girl's dad is dying very soon of pancreatic cancer, she's been miserable, I've been miserable.....and I need it....Chest and calves tonight......sorry......... :rolleyes:
 
JKurz1 said:
I think I'm gonna fail......hate to admit it, but I can't do it any more....I've gone 5 days w/o training and, although I feel good, I need to train today for mental release....work has been hectic, my girl's dad is dying very soon of pancreatic cancer, she's been miserable, I've been miserable.....and I need it....Chest and calves tonight......sorry......... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


Good on ya bro, take out your stress, just dont completely kill yourself and you should be fine..

sorry to hear about your stress, and your girls, father misfortunes, I wish the best to them
 
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