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Israel and its propaganda war: Its winning

Re: Re: SOME PRO ISREAL READ!

The Nature Boy said:


wrong.

There are many conservatives that whole heartedly support isreal. Namely the religious right. 60 minutes ran a great piece on Jerry Falwell and his followers unconditional support of Israel. These people are very dangerous and will get everyone killed because of their stupid beliefs.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/03/60minutes/main524268.shtml

read the whole thing.

Hmm, very interesting. I generally meant though that a lot of right-wingers tend to believe our support of Israel is to blame for our terroritst problems- while liberals tend to look for other reasons...

IMO, it's like this. The IDIOTIC MORONS on this board that say Israel is the root of our problem for our terror attacks have about as much brain power as a 4-year old in a sandbox. There are SO many factors, and for someone to point and say "hey let's drop Israel," is, once again, a moron.

Why the hell wouldn't we support them? Remember that little country called Vietnam?? Remember how we lost 20,000 soldiers for something that someone could say "wasn't our problem." It's because we are the defenders of world peace and democracy. It was a communist state, and he wouldn't stand for it.. Well if you look at your middle easten map, just about all of those little sand filled countries over there stone people to death, don't get to vote for their leaders, brutally beat women for adultery with no trials- then there is Isreal, a democracy that closely resembles ours.... Hmmmmmm, I don't think Isreal is out problem. It is ignorance, much like the kind many of you finger pointers possess...

A/C
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


It;s not about the jews or the cambodians you lummox. it's about the difference between what Germany was doing and what Pol Pot was doing, particularly given the divergent status of Germany and Cambodia on teh world stage, and the presence or absence of a major war. Read a book for once.

I probably read more books than you do. Still surprised that a Libertarian like you support Israel so much. BTW it doesn't matter the differences between Germany and Cambodia, bottom line is: people died. Same in Rwanda, Armenia (by Turkish), Russia (by Staline). Last time I checked in a BOOK (lol) they called that "thing" in Rwanda a "Genocide"...... maybe you should start "re-writing" our history and release a "book".
 
dballer said:


What do YOU call what Israel is doing to the people of Palistine??

Since the occupation commenced in 1967, more Palestinians have died in car accidents than have been killed by Israeli forces. Have Palestinian drivers declared a jihad on each other? Is that genocide too?

OK here's a list for the dummies (and southerners) out there - the top 4 killers of Palestinians since 1967:

1. Jordan
2. Syria
3. Car accidents
4. Israel

You cannot argue with those facts. LOL!! Good line dballer.

You want to talk about systematic slaughter of Palestinains? What did king Hussein do when the Palestinians approached him for their own state? How about Assad of Syria? Tell me tell me tell me. I want to know.

Weren't these Palestinian people celebrating on September 11th? I applaud your support for people who cheer when Americans get killed wholesale. I guess this doesn't fit your agenda. Throw another list up and elicit support from the stupid people.
 
Re: Re: Re: SOME PRO ISREAL READ!

Alex Cross said:



Why the hell wouldn't we support them? Remember that little country called Vietnam?? Remember how we lost 20,000 soldiers for something that someone could say "wasn't our problem." It's because we are the defenders of world peace and democracy.

hate to break it to you but you're wrong again. South Vietnam wasn't a democracy, it was a corrupt dictatorship. The government was so bad there that many of the south vietnamese didn't want to fight for it, or were at the very least indifferent.

As for other democracy's... tell me when have ever installed a democratic regime in recent history? because I don't know. I do know that we've put brutal non-democratic dictators into power..... Pinochet and The Shah of Iran come to mind. And we did play a role in Saddamn getting into power also. I think you're rosy perception of the US role in the world is rather blurred.
 
manny78 said:


I probably read more books than you do. Still surprised that a Libertarian like you support Israel so much. BTW it doesn't matter the differences between Germany and Cambodia, bottom line is: people died. Same in Rwanda, Armenia (by Turkish), Russia (by Staline). Last time I checked in a BOOK (lol) they called that "thing" in Rwanda a "Genocide"...... maybe you should start "re-writing" our history and release a "book".

Matt has to defend the Jewish position to play it safe. It is because of his job. That is my guess. Just a guess though.
 
Stumpy said:


You want to introduce a quota on how many Jews can enter politics and other fields?

No, I am just amazed at the great intellect and work ethic of the Jewish people.

I certainly have a lot to learn from them, because as a whole, they seem to be doing very well.

In fact, pretending to be Jewish has proved to be fruitful in the past.
 
Testosterone boy said:


Matt has to defend the Jewish position to play it safe. It is because of his job. That is my guess. Just a guess though.

interesting..... Maybe I should get him a privacy software, that would solve the problem.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:



Weren't these Palestinian people celebrating on September 11th? I applaud your support for people who cheer when Americans get killed wholesale. I guess this doesn't fit your agenda. Throw another list up and elicit support from the stupid people.

yes matt, I'm sure every palistinian was dancing in the street on sept 11th. yeah right. but I tell you what, I'm sure more than most snickered at some level. Because that's the kind of shit they have to deal with all the time. And most of the time it's done with american made equipment.

and I guess that anyone who disagrees with your rather one-sided view of things is "stupid". what are you, in 3rd grade?
 
manny78 said:


I probably read more books than you do. Still surprised that a Libertarian like you support Israel so much. BTW it doesn't matter the differences between Germany and Cambodia, bottom line is: people died. Same in Rwanda, Armenia (by Turkish), Russia (by Staline). Last time I checked in a BOOK (lol) they called that "thing" in Rwanda a "Genocide"...... maybe you should start "re-writing" our history and release a "book".

As an aside I have written a book.

If you think the events on Cambodia and germany are analogous in any way other than killing, you need to stop reading pop-up books.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


Are you implying that a jewish person in an office is blinded to the duties of their office because they are jewish? Help me here.

No, I am saying that traditionally, the Jewish people are close-knit and are very apt to helping out another Jew. The same cannot be said for most other groups.

So, when it comes time to choose sides on mid-east issues, they will instinctively side with their own people. It is simple human nature. Chomsky is the exception that proves the rule.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


you lummox.

LMFAO

Never heard that one before.......:)

Fonz
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


Weren't these Palestinian people celebrating on September 11th? I applaud your support for people who cheer when Americans get killed wholesale. I guess this doesn't fit your agenda. Throw another list up and elicit support from the stupid people.

No need to go so far, what was the name of that crakchead preacher who thought this was an act of God to punish the US for its immoral acts (abortion, gays.....) ?
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


As an aside I have written a book.

If you think the events on Cambodia and germany are analogous in any way other than killing, you need to stop reading pop-up books.

mass-killing, is mass-killing. You didn't answer my 2 questions:

- How a Libertarian like you can support that way Israel ?

- How do you call the events in Rwanda ?
 
Testosterone boy said:


Matt has to defend the Jewish position to play it safe. It is because of his job. That is my guess. Just a guess though.

WTF? OK you got me I am an Israeli operative. My lifestyle/job/whatever is not in any way affected by my opinion on a certain conflict.

People's ignorance astounds me.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:



You want to talk about systematic slaughter of Palestinains? What did king Hussein do when the Palestinians approached him for their own state? How about Assad of Syria? Tell me tell me tell me. I want to know.

Weren't these Palestinian people celebrating on September 11th? I applaud your support for people who cheer when Americans get killed wholesale. I guess this doesn't fit your agenda. Throw another list up and elicit support from the stupid people.

APPLAUD ON!!!! then read this........

Bin Laden: Attack on US to Stop Support for
Israel


LONDON (Reuters) - Osama bin Laden, the world's most wanted man, said on a video broadcast by al-Jazeera satellite television on Wednesday that the September 11 suicide attacks were intended to stop U.S. support for Israel.

"Our terrorism against the United States is worthy of praise to deter the oppressor so that America stop its support for Israel, which is killing our children," the bearded, Saudi-born fugitive said.

He added that the tape was being issued to mark about three months since the attacks on New York and Washington and two months after the United States began its bombing of Afghan targets.

The remarks indicated the tape was recorded in early to mid December.

Looking tired but calm, bin Laden was dressed in a clean, camouflage-patterned combat jacket. He sat against a cloth or canvas screen, his Russian-designed submachinegun propped beside him. There was no indication where he was when he recorded the video.



AND......




Source: http://www.tidbitsnews.com/wtc.htm | September 17, 2001


World Trade Center: Who Is Really Responsible?


Sir Peter Bonnell CJSJ


I have contacted Pres. Bush and several members of the Congress asking they consider all possible nations that may have benefited from the disastrous attack on our soil.

I want the guilty parties brought to justice or completely wiped out as much as anyone and perhaps more that most.

Intelligence information coming in from all over the world indicates we may well be being pushed into starting a war with the wrong people for the wrong reasons.

My appeal was ?Should the U.S. spend 40 billion dollars of taxpayer money, sacrifice the lives of our military, or go to the core of the problem?

I suggested we stop all aid to Israel unless they remove the atheistic Zionists from power. Only allow decent Jews who believe in GOD to hold office. Make peace with all Arabs before we give Israel any more aid.

The cause is, our government's blind and robotic support of the Zionist government of Israel. If it were not for that, there would not have been an attack.

For my readers who do not understand the difference between a Zionist Jew and a religious Jew; I will explain.

The Zionist Jew does not believe in GOD or any after life, they are completely atheistic.

The leaders are the international bankers who want a "One World Government" with them in charge. They started and have perpetrated all communism throughout the world.

They hired Marx and Engels to write the "Communist Manifesto" and have been it's moving force everywhere.

They started the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia and completely controlled the Soviet Union from the revolution to the recent break-up and still control the Russian Mafia. They murdered an estimated 120 million Christians during their time of government control.

It was a Zionist that shot Franz Josef that started WWI, to insure the existence of the Soviet Union and wrest control of most of Europe from the Hapsburg's, making it easy for the Zionists to take control of individual nations.

WWII, Roosevelt was surrounded by Zionists and knew in advance of the planned attack on Pearl Harbor. He did nothing to warn the country or military of the attack.

Americans such as Henry Ford, Charles Lindberg, Fr. Feeney, Rev. Gerald L.K. Smith etc., plus the American people did not want to get into what they called a European Zionist war.

Roosevelt had to have something to raise the anger of the American people; not alerting the country or military to the attack on Pearl Harbor, was what he used.

What did we do at the end of WWII? We brought the communist Soviet Union in as an ally. We surrounded Germany not letting food or medical supplies in for months, waiting for the Soviet Union to complete its march of slaughter through Europe. And then, turned most of occupied Europe over to the Soviets.

During the Korean war who was it that condemned our actions and would not allow MacArthur to fight to win? It was the Jewish Zionist Prendergast political machine behind Truman. Because then we were for the first time fighting communists?? no, no you can't do that.

And during the Vietnam era who were those against our stopping communism in southeastern Asia? Remember--Tom Hayden, Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin and Kuntsler? All Jewish Zionists, plus the entire Zionist media. Think about it.

If you have young persons caught up in the fever of the moment, before they run off to join the service, talk to them; until we find out the truth.

It is one thing to give you life for the good of the nation, but quite another to be fooled into giving it for nothing or fighting the innocent

A soldier swears his allegiance to the constitution and to defend his nation, not to the government bureaucrats buying campaign contributions and certainly not to Zionism.

If we stop all aid to Israel we wouldn't have this problem would we?

Zionists have been the force behind and have started communism in Africa, China (where they control practically all manufacturing), the U.S., Asia and South America, Central America, and on and on.

Zionism and communism are synonymous.

We claim to be a nation under GOD and as such have a right to demand our tax dollars are not used to support a murderous, atheistic government.

The Jews of Israel that believe in GOD have always wanted peace with the Arabs.

Recently many carried signs at the African Conference on Racism, that read, "End of Zionism = Peace", End Zionism NOW", etc.

But when the Conference condemned Israel as racist the U.S. delegation walked out and Secretary of State Colin Powell boycotted the conference. Yes..We a nation supposedly founded on fairness and justice and Christian ideals.

Is it any wonder others hate us or are suspicious of us?

Israel is not self-sufficient and must have our aid to exist or the international Zionist bankers support them if they want too. Good, we save our money. It will save the American taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars, we now give to support Israel. And we would not have to bear the hate of other nations.

Israel has never listened to us or has helped us in any way. If you can think of one thing they have ever done for us, tell me, I surely can't think of anything.

Who Gains - WTC Destroyed: Israel's support has dropped to practically zero throughout the world. The Red Cross and several nations are demanding the Israeli leader Ariel Sharon be tried as a war criminal before an international tribunal.

Also there is a rising tide in the U.S. against all aid to Israel.

As any good investigative reporter or detective working on a crime will tell you, look at whom has the most to gain.

Who has anything to gain from the terrorist acts on the WTC and the Pentagon except Israel?

For any others in the Mid-East it would be self-defeating at this time.

However, if Israel could engineer it and blame it on the Arabs, then with the help of the Zionist controlled media and the fever pitch in the U.S. it would bring support for Israel and all their crimes would be swept under the rug.

And now they are claiming that a passport belonging to one of the hijackers was discovered Saturday several blocks from the Manhattan crash site, convenient right? I doubt if anyone or anything will be identified of the hijackers or those poor innocent victims in those planes.

Perhaps the hijacker threw the passport out of the window of the plane right before he crashed it into the building.

Stop for a minute and think what they are trying to feed us. Then ask yourself, why?

It is not hard to conceive that Israel did have some back up plan like this in place as well as the means to implement it for years. After all, their acts in the Mid-East sooner or later had to cause an outcry in the U.S. and throughout the world.

Not only would an act like this bring Americans screaming to their side but would fight the war for them, the war they have always wanted, that is, control or all Arab states and their oil.

Osama bin Laden does not have the wherewithal to have carried out a mission of this magnitude.

Also why would he as an enemy of Israel, at a time when Israel is on its knees in the face of world opinion give them the means of escape? The timing just doesn't make sense, except for Israel!

Lebanon Druse leader Walid Jamblatt thinks the CIA and Israel Mossad are behind the attack. He claims bin Ledan has always been an American agent since we backed him during the Soviet Afghan war.

He claims the attack was a great coup carried out to provoke a new war and impoverish and occupy the Middle East.

And goes on ..It's surprising a country (the U.S.) with a 350 billion military budget had no knowledge of this happening, and indicates one should find out if the American secret services are implicated.

Europol anti-terrorism Chief, Jurgen Storbeck, doubts bin Laden was solely responsible for Tuesday' attacks. He cautioned about jumping to conclusions before the mass of evidence had been properly sifted and also indicated--bin Laden is not the automatic leader of every terrorist act carried out in the name of Islam?it's possible he was informed of the operation or influenced it, but he's probably not the man who steered every action or controlled the detailed plan. "As for the idea that, sitting in Afghanistan, he could have controlled the last phase of the operation is something we should not accept without a lot of doubt" "If one wants to avoid error, one must ensure that the investigation has a wide scope"

He went on to say, In addition, German authorities are highly skeptical about bin laden's role and may have uncovered evidence pointing in a different direction, also he refused to speculate on which groups might be responsible. He said Europol was giving serious consideration to claims that there was some form of state-sponsorship involved.

In another report unnamed German intelligence sources said the Echelon spy network was being used to collect information (Echelon is a vast information collection system that monitors all the electronic communications in the world it sucks up electronic transmissions like a vacuum cleaner using 120 satellites) as far back as six months ago indicating that such attacks were being planned. The U.S. Canada, U.K., Australia and New Zealand supposedly operate echelon. No government agency has ever confirmed or denied its existence, however an EU committee that investigated Echelon for more than a year just reported its belief that the system does exist.

Flying the 757 & 737 aircraft: As a former pilot for 25 years I can tell you we are being fed a line of malarkey by the media.

No one would launch a mission like this unless they had pilots qualified to fly the aircraft in question, and that means flying and being checked out in the individual aircraft they were to use.

I talked with one of the flight schools in Florida. The suspected hijackers had minimal flight training in single and twin engine small aircraft. They had not passed their written or flight tests when with that school. Then they went to another school where they had some 727-simulator time.

It seems as if these people were used as a cover story.

Regardless of what the media is trying to feed you no one would trust a mission of this nature to any pilot who was not checked out in the 737 or 757 aircraft. This means that whoever set this up had access to those planes. Neither bin Laden nor Afghanistan does, but Israel and many other large nations have them.

Also why wouldn't these hijackers just hijack airliners from other country going to Israel and do the same there as they did here.

Anyone who hasn't been in a coma for years has to realize the great stronghold on this country by the Zionists. Otherwise why didn't we do anything when Israel stole our nuclear secrets, tapped the entire White House phone system, refused to extradite murderers of American citizens back to us, sell our nuclear secrets to communist China, attack the USS Liberty killing 34 and wounding 111 U.S. servicemen. We have never brought one sanction nor done anything to them for any of this. It is no secret that the some FBI, CIA, and many in our top governmental positions are Zionists or controlled by them.

Remember the Kennedy assassination,

Ruby Ridge, Waco, the Oklahoma bombing (I will be writing more on that).

Were we told the truth by our government in these cases?

It's time to take our country back!

.WAKE UP AMERICA, before we suffer chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons wiping out our wives, children, grand children, relatives and friends all for the Zionist atheistic controlled state of Israel.

It will happen, unless you act NOW. Contact your representatives.

Gen. John K. Singlaub in an interview with (NewsMax. com) stated in part: "additional, more significant attacks against the U.S. could take place in the next several weeks".

He warned that-- an escalation of terror-which might follow such and elaborate scheme, as we have already seen unfold, might include the use of chemical or biological weapons of mass destruction. "This is really war," End

It should be noted Israel and many of the Arab states have these weapons at their disposal. If we attack, especially those that are not guilty, some Arab or Islamic people would probably do just that.

If it's them fine, we hit them, but let's be sure first.

Tell your representatives you want all intelligence from everyone checked out first. Not just Israeli and the Zionist infected French intelligence service.

In another report by Gary North (reality @ agora - inc.com) Conrad Chester, Dir. of the civil defense research program at Oak Ridge Nat. Lab. Claimed a small terrorist group could use home-brew anthrax to kill as least 90% of the population of New York City or any major city, 24 hours after they released it into the atmosphere, i.e., 12 hours after they had fled the country.

Dr. Arthur Robinson, a biochemist, who wrote a book with Gary North entitled "Fighting Chance" claimed he could personally do what Chester described using used equipment that costs $25,000.00, a years time and a pair of M.A. level graduate students in biology.

(To Be Continued)

Please check the website for any late developments. http://www.tidbitsnews.com/

*Sir Peter is an American Knighted for an "outstanding fight against world communism". He was promoted to Commander & Brig. Gen. In 1978, served as Ambassador of the Sovereign Order of St. John 1978-1980, appointed as Chairman of the Ohio Governor's Export Council to Central America in 1982. His political writings are sent to news services in the U.S. and other countries.
 
dballer said:


cut the bullshit hoss. we all know that is a load of CNN crap.

Actually I read that on AP, Reuters and several other sources. So hoss unless you've been there yourself and counted the dead bodies I have a tendancy to believe them over you.
 
The Nature Boy said:


yes matt, I'm sure every palistinian was dancing in the street on sept 11th. yeah right. but I tell you what, I'm sure more than most snickered at some level. Because that's the kind of shit they have to deal with all the time. And most of the time it's done with american made equipment.

and I guess that anyone who disagrees with your rather one-sided view of things is "stupid". what are you, in 3rd grade?

Nowhere in here have I even told you or anyone what my view is about the conflict. All of my posts have been in response to low end propaganda, and believing that stuff is in fact "stupid".

I'd be remiss if I said Israel was blameless. I never have. Israel shares culpability. It;s just funny what people believe or don't believe - like if we stop supporting Israel, all our Middle East problems will just melt away. LOL!
 
MattTheSkywalker said:




I'd be remiss if I said Israel was blameless. I never have. Israel shares culpability. It;s just funny what people believe or don't believe - like if we stop supporting Israel, all our Middle East problems will just melt away. LOL!

Ok Matt so what about just saving a few bucks (lol billions...). No matter if it will stop other attacks or no. Just to make taxpayers happy no ? Personally I'm pissed every time I hear about my govt. spending money on other countries. No matter which....
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


Since the occupation commenced in 1967, more Palestinians have died in car accidents than have been killed by Israeli forces. Have Palestinian drivers declared a jihad on each other? Is that genocide too?

OK here's a list for the dummies (and southerners) out there - the top 4 killers of Palestinians since 1967:

1. Jordan
2. Syria
3. Car accidents
4. Israel

You cannot argue with those facts. LOL!! Good line dballer.

I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE BRING THIS SHIT UP, WHO IS THE BIGGEST KILLERS OF GERMANS??? it was HILTER so is it ok for HILTER TO KILL THE JEWS TOO???? give me a break with that nonsesnse.

Black on Black crime is ok, but black on white crime is not, when PEOPLE ATTACK AND KILL YOU just cause your not the same as them, THATS A TOTAL DIFFERNT STORY>
 
The Nature Boy said:


yes matt, I'm sure every palistinian was dancing in the street on sept 11th. yeah right. but I tell you what, I'm sure more than most snickered at some level. Because that's the kind of shit they have to deal with all the time. And most of the time it's done with american made equipment.

and I guess that anyone who disagrees with your rather one-sided view of things is "stupid". what are you, in 3rd grade?

Palestinians had a chance at peace with Israel, but they weren't willing to compromise. Israel made huge consessions to them and it wasn't good enough. What about when they tried to get land from other arab states? The other arabs didn't give two shits, but as soon as they started fucking with Israel every arab country was on their side. Why is that? It seems hipocritical to me. Their original home land was quite a bit larger than the little parcel of land they call home now.
 
and MattTheZionistSupporter, dont bring up yemen and the christian ship BS, Islamic terrorism started with the creation of Israel, go read,

the muslim brotherhood was the first that resented the creation of Israel and rightfully so. And after that the supporters of Israel have been targeted thats all, but now the phonemo of islamic terrorism has gone out of control, first it was just cause of Israel, now its Israels supports, and also retalition for attack against terrorism groups

BUT ISLAMIC TERRORISM STARTED WITH THE CREATION OF ISRAEL, AND NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT WRONG
 
blank212 said:
Their original home land was quite a bit larger than the little parcel of land they call home now.

Oh man Oh man Oh man Oh man, that is the thing I hate the worst out off all freaking comments, no one gives a shit if it was your historical home, why dont we give the US back to the Native American?? Why dont we give back rome and Italy to the Etruscans? Why dont we give back France to German Tribes?

Historical homeland dont mean shit, wow, I cant believe people still bring up that historical homeland crap.
 
ImSoBig said:
and MattTheZionistSupporter, dont bring up yemen and the christian ship BS, Islamic terrorism started with the creation of Israel, go read,

the muslim brotherhood was the first that resented the creation of Israel and rightfully so. And after that the supporters of Israel have been targeted thats all, but now the phonemo of islamic terrorism has gone out of control, first it was just cause of Israel, now its Israels supports, and also retalition for attack against terrorism groups

BUT ISLAMIC TERRORISM STARTED WITH THE CREATION OF ISRAEL, AND NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT WRONG

In fact Jews created Israel using terrorism...... funny how they're pissed about terrorists today, sounds like they can't remember about the famous "Stern Gang" and Irgun.....
 
manny78 said:


In fact Jews created Israel using terrorism...... funny how they're pissed about terrorists today, sounds like they can't remember about the famous "Stern Gang" and Irgun.....

But dont forget they did it for their "freedom" and a "homeland" after the "holocaust" and they "deserved it" so it was "ok" to commit "terrorism" for their "historic" homeland and freedom.:rolleyes:
 
ImSoBig said:


Oh man Oh man Oh man Oh man, that is the thing I hate the worst out off all freaking comments, no one gives a shit if it was your historical home, why dont we give the US back to the Native American?? Why dont we give back rome and Italy to the Etruscans? Why dont we give back France to German Tribes?

Historical homeland dont mean shit, wow, I cant believe people still bring up that historical homeland crap.

That is fine with me. That means that the Palestinians shouldn't get any land at all. They have absolutely no homeland now and by your accounts they don't deserve anything at all. Israel won that land in a war so all that land is theirs now, problem solved.
 
blank212 said:


That is fine with me. That means that the Palestinians shouldn't get any land at all. They have absolutely no homeland now and by your accounts they don't deserve anything at all. Israel won that land in a war so all that land is theirs now, problem solved.

Why not? The "palestinians" were living there when the RUSSIAN JEWS AND EUROPEAN JEWS immigrated in huge numbers. And a homeland was declared, NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF MAN has another government given away land of one people to another. GIVEN IS THE KEY TERM HERE
 
Cambodia and Rwanda are equally as bad as the Holocaust, it doesnt matter for what reason it was, a massacre is a massacre.
 
blank212 said:
Israel won that land in a war so all that land is theirs now, problem solved.

WHAT??????? How was Israel created?

It was given to the jews after the holocaust, I belive in pity, they deserve a homeland no doubt about that, but only the mid eastern jews, theres no reason for millions of europeans and russians coming to the mid east.

I dont blame the arabs one bit for being pissed after the unfair ways in which they were treated.
 
blank212 said:

Israel won that land in a war so all that land is theirs now, problem solved.
Their land was first given by the UK and approuved by the UN. Then after the independence, the rest was won through the multiple wars they had.
 
ImSoBig said:


Why not? The "palestinians" were living there when the RUSSIAN JEWS AND EUROPEAN JEWS immigrated in huge numbers. And a homeland was declared, NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF MAN has another government given away land of one people to another. GIVEN IS THE KEY TERM HERE

Israel GAVE the Sinai back to Egypt in order to acheive peace.
 
blank212 said:


Israel GAVE the Sinai back to Egypt in order to acheive peace.

That wasnt what we were talkign about anyway.

And about Sinai it is a major misconception, they didnt Give back Sinai back for "peace" even though the deal was placed that way, they actually woudnt be able to handle sinia,

they coudnt handle lebanon and lost to hizbollah and retreted this was recent what makes you think they could have held sinia??? Even in 2002 they cant handle the west bank and gaza do you think they could have kept Sinia?? think again.
 
The d-baller research method:

Go on the web and find something loosely connected to your point, whatever that point is...hard to tell since you don't write anything original, you just copy/paste. Must be the southern method. :)

In your first copy/paste article, you attribute this quote to OBL:

"Our terrorism against the United States is worthy of praise to deter the oppressor so that America stop its support for Israel, which is killing our children," the bearded, Saudi-born fugitive said.

He added that the tape was being issued to mark about three months since the attacks on New York and Washington and two months after the United States began its bombing of Afghan targets.
.

For your second copy/paste article, you select an article that insinuates that Israel may have been responsible for the attacks.

Seems like the two are not aligned. Do you even read these things before you copy/paste them? Do you have any original thoughts on the subject? Or just lists and links?

Anyway:

OBL and other extremists will not stop attacking us if we stop supporting Israel. Reference the "Christian tanker" comments noted above in my earlier post. Extremist Muslims hate Christians just as much as they hate Jews. They pick on the Jews because they are a smaller group.

Early in Islam's history, in fact, there were attempts by the prophet Mohammed to unite Jews and Muslims, since their views on God are similar. (Pure monotheism). Muslims and Christians, however, are long-time enemies due to the Trinity and the Muslim belief that the idea of God as three distinct beings is a perversion.
Muslims are reticent to attack Christians due to Christians' large numbers. Note, though, there were two assassination attempts of the Pope planned.

Extremist muslims are attacking Jews now because Jews are very small in number and are an easier target.

Make no mistake: OBL wants the US to stop aid to Israel. But please don't be fooled into thinking the attacks will stop if we cut Israel off. If extremist Muslims are able to destroy Israel, Christian targets would be next. You're fooling yourself if you don't think so. OBL just wants aid to stop to hasten the destructon of Israel.

There is a guy named Robert Fisk who has done a lot of research on bin Laden. You may find the reading interesting - particularly hisd omments abut howe little bin laden knows or cares about the outside world. I leave that to you.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
Extremist muslims are attacking Jews now because Jews are very small in number and are an easier target.

You have truly lost your mind, you make no sense at all, they are attacking "jews" cause of Israel.

Let me tell you something about Osama Bin Laden he is a very paranoid guy, he belives that the US is trying to Build "THE GREATER ISRAEL" which will include Jordan, Iraq and parts of Saudi Arabia, and that is the MAIN reason he doesnt want American Troops in Saudi Arabia, he belives that American troops in Saudi and American naval ships in the Persain gulf are getting ready to attack the Muslim lands, and that plays back to Israel, to build the Greater Israel. It all goes back to Israel.

But recenlty he has been making friendships with other terrorist groups and other muslim causes to gain more support for him.

And can you tell me when Islamic Terrorism started and why??
 
ImSoBig said:


BUT ISLAMIC TERRORISM STARTED WITH THE CREATION OF ISRAEL, AND NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT WRONG

Really? what were the Almohads then in Spain in the 1400's??

How about Wahhabism in the early 1900's?
 
ImSoBig said:




Even in 2002 they cant handle the west bank and gaza .

I disagree with this. They could handle anything they could possibly do and have for many years. Israel isn't about to fall to the Palestinians. The Americans, the U.N., and their wish for peace in the region hold them back from crushing the Palestinians which they could easily do. That is like saying America can't handle murderers because people are still being killed every day.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
Early in Islam's history, in fact, there were attempts by the prophet Mohammed to unite Jews and Muslims, since their views on God are similar. (Pure monotheism). Muslims and Christians, however, are long-time enemies due to the Trinity and the Muslim belief that the idea of God as three distinct beings is a perversion.
Muslims are reticent to attack Christians due to Christians' large numbers. Note, though, there were two assassination attempts of the Pope planned.

Stop posting Lies please, here are differnt translations of the same verse from the quran which is for all times, and is not time specific, jews and christians are regarded with high esteem.



1. Yusuf Ali
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

2. M.M. Pickthall
Lo! those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

3. Noble Qur'an (Muhsin Khan/Hilali)
Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

4. Saheeh International
Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

5. M. Farooq-i-Azam Malik
Rest Assured that Believers (Muslims), Jews, Christians and Sabians - whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and performs good deeds - will be rewarded by their Rabb; they will have nothing to fear or to regret.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


Really? what were the Almohads then in Spain in the 1400's??

How about Wahhabism in the early 1900's?

Wahhabism is a sect of Islam, a strict sect, show me one incident of terrorism by the Almohhads Moors in Spain or the Wahhabis in the 1900's I would love to see that. lol, But you wont be able to find it.
 
blank212 said:


I disagree with this. They could handle anything they could possibly do and have for many years. Israel isn't about to fall to the Palestinians. The Americans, the U.N., and their wish for peace in the region hold them back from crushing the Palestinians which they could easily do. That is like saying America can't handle murderers because people are still being killed every day.

Thanks to 6 BILLION DOLLARS IN US AID, they better listen to the US, if we gave Somalia 6 billion dollars a year in Aid it could take over africa, please.
 
ImSoBig said:


Stop posting Lies please, here are differnt translations of the same verse from the quran which is for all times, and is not time specific, jews and christians are regarded with high esteem.



1. Yusuf Ali
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

2. M.M. Pickthall
Lo! those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

3. Noble Qur'an (Muhsin Khan/Hilali)
Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

4. Saheeh International
Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

5. M. Farooq-i-Azam Malik
Rest Assured that Believers (Muslims), Jews, Christians and Sabians - whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and performs good deeds - will be rewarded by their Rabb; they will have nothing to fear or to regret.


Now as to what you posted: 'believe in Allah' means ignore the Christian God, as Christians believe in a tripartite God. So according to the Koran, if Christians reject their God and follow Allah, they can be in paradise.

The divided Nature of the Christian God was inits infancy at the time of Mohammed. Constantine established the Christian Trinity at the Council of Nicaea in 325.

The Qu'ran is saying that if those Christians reject the tripartite God and embrace Allah, they can be 'with the Lord' (Allah).

right there is the grounds for the animosity between extremist Muslims and christianity. (Note: extremists).
 
And Israel is lucky that the US and UN are holding Iran, Iraq, and Pakistan and other countries back, Iran and Pakistan is a country you dont want to mess with, they make Palestianians look weak.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:



Now as to what you posted: 'believe in Allah' means ignore the Christian God, as Christians believe in a tripartite God. So according to the Koran, if Christians reject their God and follow Allah, they can be in paradise.

1. Yusuf Ali
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Not true, it says clealy those who follow the jewish and christian scriptures and allah which is god.

If you dont relize it already, allah is god in arabic, what do christians acutally call god? yahew or something, thats just arabic for god.

Christian god and Muslim god is one and the same.
 
ImSoBig said:


Wahhabism is a sect of Islam, a strict sect, show me one incident of terrorism by the Almohhads Moors in Spain or the Wahhabis in the 1900's I would love to see that. lol, But you wont be able to find it.


Wahhabi terrorism got the House of Saud in power. things are rocky now, huh?.

As to the Almohads (glad you knew that one) read the book "Constantine's Sword". There is an entire chapter about how the Almohads destroyed a community on the Iberian peninsula. It was a unique community because before the Almohads showed up, Jews, Christians and Muslims all thrived.

The Pyrenees mountains kept the oppressive Catholic Church out too.

hey bro - don't take this shit personally. All saides need to eb considered. As I said before, Israel shares culpability but let's get some facts out there.......
 
here are the other translations for doubters like you

8. T.B. Irving
Those who believe and those who are Jews, Christians and Sabeans, [in fact] anyone who believes in God and the Last Day, and acts honorably will receive their earnings from their Lord: no fear will lie upon them nor need they feel saddened.

10. A.J. Arberry
Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabaeans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness, their wage awaits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow.

11. N.J. Dawood
Believers, Jews, Christians and Sabaeans - whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right - shall be rewarded by their Lord; they have nothing to fear or regret.


SO TO SAY THAT MUSLIMS ACTUALLY HATE CHRISTIANS BUT ARE PICKING ON JEWS CAUSE they are less in number is false.

They hate jews cause of Israel, and hate the US for the support of it.
 
ImSoBig said:


Christian god and Muslim god is one and the same.

No they aren't....

To a Christian, God is God. Just like a Muslim. BUT, to Christians, Jesus is also God. Will a Muslim worship jesus? No. But he's God to Christians.

As you know, Mohammed is God's prophet. But he's not God.

Also, to Christians, the Holy Spirit is God. Islam has no equivalent belief.

Muslim God and Jewish God are the same.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
To a Christian, God is God. Just like a Muslim. BUT, to Christians, Jesus is also God. Will a Muslim worship jesus? No. But he's God to Christians.

well we are going off topic but let me clarify

Muslims belive that Jesus was a prophet, and that when people called him "son of god" it was not literal, muslims belive that jesus was a prophet and his god was the same as the muslim and jewish god, there was no trinity concept.

back to subject

Israel sucks!! :)
 
ImSoBig said:


well we are going off topic but let me clarify

Muslims belive that Jesus was a prophet, and that when people called him "son of god" it was not literal, muslims belive that jesus was a prophet and his god was the same as the muslim and jewish god, there was no trinity concept.

back to subject

Israel sucks!! :)

LOL. Religious history is more interesting.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
The d-baller research method:

Go on the web and find something loosely connected to your point, whatever that point is...hard to tell since you don't write anything original, you just copy/paste. Must be the southern method. :)

In your first copy/paste article, you attribute this quote to OBL:

"Our terrorism against the United States is worthy of praise to deter the oppressor so that America stop its support for Israel, which is killing our children," the bearded, Saudi-born fugitive said.

He added that the tape was being issued to mark about three months since the attacks on New York and Washington and two months after the United States began its bombing of Afghan targets.
.

For your second copy/paste article, you select an article that insinuates that Israel may have been responsible for the attacks.

Seems like the two are not aligned. Do you even read these things before you copy/paste them? Do you have any original thoughts on the subject? Or just lists and links?

Anyway:

OBL and other extremists will not stop attacking us if we stop supporting Israel. Reference the "Christian tanker" comments noted above in my earlier post. Extremist Muslims hate Christians just as much as they hate Jews. They pick on the Jews because they are a smaller group.

Early in Islam's history, in fact, there were attempts by the prophet Mohammed to unite Jews and Muslims, since their views on God are similar. (Pure monotheism). Muslims and Christians, however, are long-time enemies due to the Trinity and the Muslim belief that the idea of God as three distinct beings is a perversion.
Muslims are reticent to attack Christians due to Christians' large numbers. Note, though, there were two assassination attempts of the Pope planned.

Extremist muslims are attacking Jews now because Jews are very small in number and are an easier target.

Make no mistake: OBL wants the US to stop aid to Israel. But please don't be fooled into thinking the attacks will stop if we cut Israel off. If extremist Muslims are able to destroy Israel, Christian targets would be next. You're fooling yourself if you don't think so. OBL just wants aid to stop to hasten the destructon of Israel.

There is a guy named Robert Fisk who has done a lot of research on bin Laden. You may find the reading interesting - particularly hisd omments abut howe little bin laden knows or cares about the outside world. I leave that to you.


In the end... who did OBL align as the reason he attacked us?
 
Warik said:
Instead of attacking the Middle East and having them hate us, why don't we just attack Israel and make some friends in the Middle East?

No more terrorist attacks.

No more increased homeland security spending.

No more long lines at airports.

Cheaper gas.

It would be perfect. Whatcha think?

-Warik






.................you NEED to be very careful my freind..........................y
you of all people should KNOW better
 
ImSoBig said:


Ill answer that for him, Israel and our support for it.

So we should give credence to what Osama wants? LOL! I know you;re smarter than that. Dballer I'm not so sure....
 
This thread reminds me of a merry go round......LOL

OBL is alive and kicking btw.

Audio only. The guy Knows all the tricks.
Probably changed his appearance if you ask me.

Fonz
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


So we should give credence to what Osama wants? LOL! I know you;re smarter than that. Dballer I'm not so sure....

Why did you avoid the question? You ridicule me for posting articles... but these are the articles that you feel you do not want to comment on. I found both in diffrent places. So they were not written by the same people. But it is funny how many of them are out there.... and how many end up in America's media... do you care to comment on that Matt? Why do we not hear about some of the bullshit Israel pulls? You know they never talked about Jenin too much on the news... I was never taught about USS Liberty in school.. but if some Arab thows a fuckin rock at an Israeli soilder.. we hear about it on every channel. Also.. did you like my list? What are your thoughts on that????
 
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