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Jenetic said:
So, if I'm depressed I may still have normal test levels? I think thats very unlikely but I'll get some blood work done.
I just need a slight boost before I tackle the underlining problem.
Is it possible to restore the HTPA with Nolvadex?
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So, if I'm depressed I may still have normal test levels? I think thats very unlikely but I'll get some blood work done.
I just need a slight boost before I tackle the underlining problem.
BIG SMT
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georgie24 said:
HCG is good when on a long cycle...say a 16+ week cycle. It will increase sensitivity to LH, and get the testes jump started to get them used to working again because they have been hanging dorminant for so long. HCG can damage your testes though from overstimulation. Not to mention it can cause the testes to become LESS sensitive to LH if overused. I try not to over do it with the HCG.
Here is some info:
HCG, is not an anabolic/an-drogenic steroid but a natural protein hormone which develops in the placenta of a pregnant woman. HCG is manufac-tured from the urine of pregnant women since it is excreted in un-changed form from the blood via the woman's urine, passing through the kidneys. The commercially available HCG is sold as a dry substance and can be used both in men and women. in women injectable HCG allows for ovulation since it influences the last stages of the development of the ovum, thus stimulating ovulation. In a man HCG stimulates pro-duction of androgenic hormones (testosterone). For this reason athletes use injectable HCG to increase the testosterone produc-tion. HCG is often used in combination with anabolic/androgenic steroids during or after treatment. Since the body usually needs a certain amount of time to get its testoster-one production going again, the athlete, after discontinuing ste-roid compounds, experiences a difficult transition phase which often goes hand in hand with a considerable loss in both strength and muscle mass. Administering HCG directly after steroid treat-ment helps to reduce this condition because HCG increases the testosterone production in the testes very quickly and reliably. In the event of testicular atrophy caused by mega doses and very long periods of usage, HCG also helps to quickly bring the testes back to their original condition (size). Since occasional injections of HCG during steroid intake can avoid a testicular atrophy, many athletes use HCG for two to three weeks in the middle of their steroid treatment. It is often observed that during this time the athlete makes his best progress with respect to gains in both strength and muscle mass. Those who are on the juice all year round, who might suffer psychological consequences or who would perhaps risk the breakup of a relationship because of this should consider this drawback when taking HCG in regular in-tervals. A reduced libido and spermatogenesis due to steroids, in most cases, can be successfully cured by treatment with HCG.
Most athletes, however, use HCG at the end of a treatment in order to avoid a "crash," that is, to achieve the best possible transition into "natural training." A precondition, however, is that the steroid intake or dosage be reduced slowly and evenly before taking HCG. Although HCG causes a quick and significant increase of the endogenic plasma- testosterone level, unfortunately it is not a perfect remedy to prevent the loss of strength and mass at the end of a steroid treatment. Although HCG does stimulate endogenous testosterone production, it does not help in re-estab-lishing the normal hypothalamic/pituitary testicular axis. The hypothalamus and pituitary are still in a refractory state after prolonged steroid usage, and remain this way while HCG is being used, because the endogenous testosterone produced as a-result of the exogenous HCG represses the endogenous LH production. Once the HCG is discontinued, the athlete must still go through a re-adjustment period. This is merely delayed by the HCG use." For this reason experienced athletes often take Clomid and Clenbuterol following HCG intake or they immediately begin an-other steroid treatment. Some take HCG merely to get off the "steroids" for at least two to three weeks.
HCG package insert states clearly that HCG "has no known effect of fat mobilization, appetite or sense of hunger, or body fat distribution." It further states, "HCG has not been demonstrated to be effective adjunctive therapy in the treatment of obesity, it does not increase fat losses beyond that resulting from caloric restriction. 6000 I.U. of HCG in a single injection resulted in elevated testosterone levels for six days after the injection. At a dosage of 1500 I.U. the pharmatestosterone level increases by 250-300% (2.5-3fold) com-pared to the initial value. The athlete should inject one HCG ampule every 5 days. Since the testosterone level remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. The effective dosage for ath-letes is usually 2000-5000 I.U. per injection and should-as al-ready mentioned-be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a few weeks. If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function.
HCG can in part cause side effects similar to those of injectable testosterone. A higher testosterone production also goes hand in hand with an elevated estrogen level which could result in gynecomastia. This could manifest itself in a temporary growth of breasts or reinforce already existing breast growth in men. Farsighted athletes thus combine HCG with an antiestrogen. Male athletes also report more frequent erections and an increased sexual desire. In high doses it can cause acne vulgaris and the storing of minerals and water. The last point must especially be observed since the water retention which is possible through the use of HCG could give the muscle system a puffy and watery appear-ance. Athletes who have already increased their endogenous test-osterone level by taking Clomid and intend subsequently to take HCG could experience considerable water retention and distinct feminization symptoms (gynecomastia, tendency toward fat de-posits on the hips). This is due to the fact that high testosterone leads to a high conversion rate to estrogens. In very young ath-letes HCG, like anabolic steroids, can cause an early stunting of growth since it prematurely closes the epiphysial growth plates. Mood swings and high blood pressure can also be attributed to the intake of HCG.
Jenetic said:
You know what i meant in my post. I know it contradictory to what you wrote and i'm sorry.
My point now that you asked, is for everyone to stop doing the type of cycles that end with their testicles looking like raisins. It is dose/ compound dependent to most guys. When learning to cycle you have to take the time to cycle single compounds to see how your body will respond to it in terms supression, recovery and results. In a world when everyone wants results yesterday it's not going to happen anytime soon.
heavyweightBoxer
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georgie24 said:
Thats pretty much all I want to know.
georgie24 said:
Generally speaking yes. And i mean real recovery, as in 2-4 months post your PCT. HCG gives you the quick burst in the beginning of your PCT but has IMO no long term benefits for this purpose, all it does is temorarily bring back testicular mass by mimmicking LH. HCG should hovewer be taken by those on HRT whom want to maintain normal sperm production. Afterall HCG is used as a fertility drug not HPTA recovery.
GREGORY said:
The primary goal during the first three weeks of PCT is to quickly restore testicular volume. Also, the dramatic increase in testosterone production is necessary to avoid and/or minimize the "crash" effect. It's not meant to be used as a long term solution. As previously mentioned, both Nolvadex and Clomid increase pituitary LH secretion by blocking estrogen negative feedback on the HTPA. Therefore, SERMs are used during PCT as an anti estrogen and to continue the stimulation of pituitary LH after HCG has been discontinued.
1,000 IU's HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for a total of 3 weeks. Continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional
2-3 weeks. During heavy or prolonged cycles, you may increase the HCG dosage to 1,500 IU's if necessary and incorporate 50-100 mgs Clomid ED for the first 3 weeks in combination with both HCG and Nolvadex. Continue with 50 mgs Clomid ED for an additional 2-3 weeks in combination with Nolvadex. Finally, perform blood work to evaluate your recovery.
In addition, the leydig cell desensitization from HCG has been shown to be blocked/minimized by Nolvadex. This occurs by supressing HCG's ability to inhibit the conversion of 17 alpha hydroxyprogesterone to testosterone.
Jenetic
