INTRODUCTION TO SHUAIJIAO !!! (Attn : Judo Tom)

[BOSSDAWG]

Let me put my 2cents in lol. I like the style it has some nasty throws that are brutal in the system. There is one thing about arts like this is if your footwork is not flawless u can get your ass kicked. Far as jabs are useful and other atemi waza. I use strikes that are mention in this thread as a distraction or to set up my grappling. There seems to be a point of view problem which is very common among fighters that are wrestlers and shuaijio players that is being expressed here. The so call matador trick as i would call i have used and broke a dudes ribs with my finish up throw. Also i use the sprawl alot which has gotten me submissions or my fav just powerbomb the mofo on the pavement and call it a day.Both are very great techniques from rick and djimbe.Basically u gotta fight accordingly and get a submission any way u can get it. Laterz

 

[Kane Fan]

What do you mean by "hard takedowns" you mean like high amp throws that can hurt a guy on the way down or something?



-BRR

I figure he ment something like a bodyslam type thing
like instead of a take down a pick up and slam down to get to the ground

 

[Djimbe]

I still think there are a couple of problems with this technique working on a real live trained fighter who is resisting my movements.

1- You want us to start from a position where he has already has my leg and I have been able to effectively position my legs to execute this move.... One of the things I refered to was momentum from the shot itself. When a guy who know his shit takes a shot he never stops moving or readjusting his position long enough for me to COMMIT both hands to his head...
Noticed I said commit because once I make both my hands "busy" trying to find his chin and crank him over, I'm giving up valuable split seconds that I could use to overhook the near arm and stuff his head down or work to break his grip with my other hand.... Both my arms are going to be used to try and execute this one big move and if I miss the chin or if he re-adjusts his position before I can crank him over then I'm basically .... Fucked.

Okay , firstly this is just ONE aplication of ONE prnciple . Its not meant to be taken as some sort of Synopsis of the entire system . Secondly I cant teach you what and how to use your Feet and weight in accordance withthe style over the Internet . I cant teach you Timing , Handspeed , or Balance , either - and the fact is that even if I COULD one person wins and one person loses every Wrestling AND Shuaijiao match . You seem to want me to present some kind of argument that these moves are infallible , but the fact is that NO move is , not even something as simple as a Jab . NO ONE has a perfect Single or Double leg .Or Shot . I dont give a crap what division they wrestled in . As such trying to hold a move youre unfamilliar with to the standard of perfection is rediculous .

Yes , the Start IS a bit "Set Up" and takes Momentum out of it , but there are Techniques for taking the momentum out of the Equation as well , I cant teach you the whole style online , especially since Im not Certified to teach it OFFline !

You have to have decent Handspeed to play Shuaijiao tactics and use the Techniques . Its a hybrid style of Striking/Grappling , and it has the requirements of such . IF you can catch a tennis ball hurled at you you should be able to catch someones head . its MUCH larger . After YEARS OF PRACTICE it becomes easier and easier . Like any OTHER technique . Its that simple . I mean , how many times have you seen someone just walk into a gym and work a Speedbag ? A Double End Bag ? You have to gain SKILLS first . How many times you head the Phrase "Never Throw High Kicks" ? And yet , Cro Cop makes them work for him ...


Do you realise the hundereds (thousands ?) of hours that a Shuaijiao guy spends working ONLY on his Grip ? To the point where the older players can rip , Decks of Cards , and Telephone books ? Finding the soft spots on a skull and getting a grip on them becomes second nature .

IF you find the head too hard o Grab try this :

Underhook the arm thats on the INside of the leg that hes trying to Single .

Reach over him and grab the Underhooking Wrist . You might even want to throw a lil Crossface in there while youre at it .

Step through the guy as you "Peel" him the same way as in the other technique .

-Edit-

I wrote some rather lengthy description about why I don't think this neck crank would work most of the time... But the descriptions try to explain moves abd positions that are going to go over everybodie's head unless you have a lot of wrestling experience.

All I'll say is this: I don't see this move as being a "high percentage" move since the conditions need to be just right to throw it otherwise you will miss it. I think agains an untrained guy off the street that tries to tackle you down in a street fight, you have a 50/50 chance of getting it... Maybe even higher like 60/40 depending on the guy... I think that against a trained wrestler with at least 4 year of experience your chances lower considerably to maybe 20/80... Against a guy with Div. 1 college wrestling experience I would be generous to give this move a 5/95...

Let me stop now and say I will give this a good try and see if it works.


When I find somebody willing I'll try the exercise the way you described and I'll post the results.



-BRR

Like I said above , your little Chart here gets Skewed all to hell when the Exp level of the person executing the move itself Ramps up as well .

OTOH , where in the HELL are all these Div 1 Wrestlers that are jumping people on the Street ??? Who the hell CARES how hard it is to do to bloody Kurt Angle ? Whens the last time an Olympian jumped me in a bar ? Probably just as long ago as the person that trained Taiji or Judo for 10 years did it ... Yeah , its hard to beat up ppl that have skills , so what ? EVERYTHING becomes a Lower % move the more Exp your Opponent has , ESPECIALY in reference to their systems signature moves !

 

[Djimbe]

Ok Dude now you got me a little worried that you don't know what you are talking about...

You say that you can't "IMAGINE" a: Jab, Hip Toss, Roud House/Thai Kick working in real life?

I was ATTEMPTING to Illustrate that you can THINK your way out of any technique working , even the most basic ones . You cant reason your way ot 9f a Jab , even though ON PAPER they really SHOULDNT work on you .

I watched a boxing match on ESPN over the weekend where the "Jab" was working just fine, the guys in the undercard and main event all executed and connect between 5-10 Jabs per round and they seem to do just fine. Didn't KO the guy but it worked as a great set up for cobinations.

Hip Toss in all of its forms has been around since the Greeks first sanctioned wrestling events and guys where getting thrown on their heads... That was about 2,000 B.C give or take a few hundred years.

Don't get me started on the Round House kick...

Watch this clip: http://207.44.200.49/highlights/32-MirkoFilipovicHQ.zip

I lost count of how many guys Mirko KOed with the Round House Kick. This is just ONE guy executing this kick. I'm pretty sure someother guys have tried it too.

And yet , I gave such BRILLIANT explanations on why they CANT work ! Oh , but so did you - and yet , all of it works anyway .

You see , thats what I was trying to show , that just because you could THINK of reasons that it SHOULDNT work it wouldnt mean that it didnt . The same goes for Shuaijiao moves .

I have seen the three moves you mentioned be effective in real life combat. I cannot say the same for the stuff in the clips you posted. I have yet to see anybody use that "Neck Crank" in a real life confrontation.

You have seen only that with wich you are familliar .

Of course .

- Please drop me a link to some clips or tell me when and against who Tim Silvia used that neck crank so I can find the fight and watch it. I'm not doubting you at all, but I'm really curious to see how this has been used in a real fight and what the results were.

Silvia uses some variation of it all the time , he uses the underhooking one that i posted above , as well ... I wish I had all of his Fights handy or Id point it out for you .

-I don't just wrestle anymore. I cross train in different arts. I'm sure at some point after my Wrestling career was over and I took up MMA type training I would have found the need to learn this technique since the game plan changed.

I'm not doubting you bro, I just wish I could see an example or two of this technique being used in a real fight.

-BRR

Why ? What need would anyone have for teaching you that ? What need would YOU have for Learning it ? You still look for the same thing , the Takedown . You still wish to be on the ground WITH your opponent . As long as that is your basic strategem your tactics wont change any . Basically that will remain the untrod road for you . Especially as long as you think in terms of SportFighting , and of Ground Submissions being a big part of your Aresenal . MMA is BIG fun , and I like it , I watch it , and I even take swats at playing at it with my friends that are into it from time to time , but these systems were invented with SOMETHING of a "Battlefield Mindset" and going to the ground is Suicide in most cases . Not everywhere are there NO outside influences on a fight , and the ability to loll about on the ground ad infinitum .