Inner Chest

[WarriorPL]

Okay well i have like a indent between my pecs and its annoying when i wear loose shirts cuz the shirts digs into the hole and it looks like i have breasts!! LoL
Also i looks weird when not wearing a shirt too...

Anyways, i would like to know whats the best way to build this up??


~WizKid

 

[Distortion]

doesn't that just make ur chest look bigger man? It brings out the muscle more everyone has that indent there isn't any muscle there really..



even gogeta has one

 

[WarriorPL]

i know everyone has that indent, but my outer pecs come out more than my inner. its weird.


~WizKid

 

[macDbol]

i dont get what yoru saying.....so you have muscle seperation in your inner chest? and your outer chest "comes out",,is it a bodyfat thing??...what exactly are you looking to build? pec width?talk to me u silly little freak

 

[WarriorPL]

i have no idea wtf is up with my body, LOL
okay, my chest seems to come out more towards the outside than the inside, it looks weird, but i think its a body fat thing, when i flex them i feel more fat towards the outside and side of my pecs


~WizKid

 

[macDbol]

usually fat guys have man tities,,little things that pokeout when they wear tight t shirts just work your chest out,,build some muscle underneath that and try cutting up after u have achieved some mass and shape

 

[WarriorPL]

i don't have man breasts, they accually look good with a tight shirt and they have enough mass, i just need to get em cut.. guess i gotta hit the dumbbel flyes hard for that.


~WizKid

 

[bignate73]

i just need to get em cut.. guess i gotta hit the dumbbel flyes hard for that.

cardio flyes???

 

[musclefattie]

I think i know what you mean i have it too, my outer chest is much bigger than my inner chest and it looks weird with a loose shirt. I think the only thing is to use a narower grip to build the inner chest and make it as thick as the rest

 

[Robboe]

Narrow grip = more trice involvement, not inner chest involvement.

It's genetic.

Tough shit.

I actually have the same thing - nothing will close the gap, just make it less apparent by building the whole chest.

Oh, and squat and deadlift you pussy!

 

[MrMuscle]

standing cable crossovers man

 

[ciscokid1]

You can only work the upper and lower chest muscles there is no such thing as working the inner chest as opposed to the outter chest.

 

[WarriorPL]

Oh, and squat and deadlift you pussy!

No.


~WizKid

 

[macDbol]

Narrow grip = more trice involvement, not inner chest involvement.

It's genetic.

Tough shit.

I actually have the same thing - nothing will close the gap, just make it less apparent by building the whole chest.

Oh, and squat and deadlift you pussy!

ha ha....ppl seem to forget that working large muscle groups in compound movements help the rest of their body out...barring injury if you dont do squats then your basically just fucking around in the gym

 

[M56M]

You can only work the upper and lower chest muscles there is no such thing as working the inner chest as opposed to the outter chest.

I don't think that is true.

How about the pec deck, that definitely concentrates the inner chest.

Or dumbell flies also concentrates the inner chest.

This is only if the two are done right ofcourse.

M56M

 

[Robboe]

You can only work the upper and lower chest muscles there is no such thing as working the inner chest as opposed to the outter chest.

Totally wrong sorry.

You can't specifically work ANY part of the chest - just the chest as a whole.

 

[M56M]

Totally wrong sorry.

You can't specifically work ANY part of the chest - just the chest as a whole.

If that was true then you would only have one "universal" chest excercise. Think about it. Why make so many different benches and machines if every exercise worked all the parts of the chest evenly. Bench, incline, decline, pec deck, dips--yes the overall chest is affected, but they all concentrate on one place more than another.

M56M

 

[Bobba]

I totally agree with Robboe, it's genetic!

I have the same problem, but it looks much better now that my chest is bigger. The only way to go is to keep lifting heavy and get a massive chest!

By the way I also agree that everyone should squat and deadlift!!!

 

[death on the field]

inner chest- medium grip bench press, dumbell flyes
outer chest- wide grip bench press
upper pec- incline bench
lower pec- decline bench
make ur chest workout hit all 4 of these
like for instance
3 sets wide grip bench press
2 sets medium grip bench press
3 sets incline bench
3 sets decline bench
2-3 sets decline
also upping the mass of ur inner chest will only make it look more like boobs but it actually looks good.

 

[Enock]

Its genetic, my friend has a wide gap between chest muscles, where mine dents down and immediatly goes back up. We train relatively the same.

 

[Abbaddon]

Narrow grip = more trice involvement, not inner chest involvement.

It's genetic.

Tough shit.

I actually have the same thing - nothing will close the gap, just make it less apparent by building the whole chest.

Oh, and squat and deadlift you pussy!

Hey kid you know I would think that everyone getting on your case about working your legs would get to you by now and you wouldnt be so worried about your upper body.

Let me put it to you this way there are a few of us that really ride you hard about not doing legs. Most of us have been lifting since you were shitting yourself. I would hope that you would actually take some of this as advice and do it.

My contribution to your question is your 16 it doesnt happen overnight and start squating and deadlifting.

 

[MonStar1023]

A few people on this board (Cackerot69 and Robboe especially) seem to argue all day long that there is NO WAY to put more emphasis different heads or parts of a muscle group with different exercises. I mean I will agree with you guys 100% that you cannot ISOLATE a certain part of a muscle group. I definitely believe that you can put more stress on different areas in a muscle group with different exercises, while still working the entire muscle group.

How was it possible for me to never do an incline movement and 3 MONTHS and I do mean 90 DAYS after starting every chest workout with incline barbell presses, my upper chest grew to surpass my lower chest. Theyre symetric now but for a while my upper chest was thick as well and my lower chest suffered a bit.

You cannot tell me that when you do incline dumbbell presses you dont feel it more in your upper pecs and when you do decline dumbbell presses you dont feel it more in your lower pecs. How could bodybuilders for decades train their weak points with specific exercises to correct their weak points if thats impossible to do??

I am not trying to start an argument at all you both know your shit I have seen your posts on here but I just dont believe that.

 

[ciscokid1]

Sorry guys but I am positive about this and I'll back it up as soon as I find the info I read on it. I'll repeat, you can not isloate the inner or outter chest. Upper and lower yes. Incline press, flat, decline are isolating(so to speak) the upper or lower........... but pec flys, close grip bench presses are not isolating inner vs outter. Think about the movement it is impossible.

 

[ciscokid1]

Quoted from MuscleMag Feb. 1998 issue no.188 by James Kreiger (Guest Editorial)
This is not from one of those dumb special report/ MuscleTech Ads this is a real article.

The Top Ten Dumbest, Most Idiotic Things I've Ever Heard Come Out Of Bodybulders' Mouths.

#6. "I use close grip benches for my inner chest and wide grip benches for my outer chest," "Does this mean that if we did nothing but close grip benches that we would have big lumps on our inner chest? If people really thought about this statement, they would realize that muscle growth dosen't work that way. A muscle contractsequally from both ends. If it didn't a contracted bicep would look very strange, and I think you would have a tough time moving around.
I'm not saying that you can never work different parts of a muscle. MRI Imaging has shown that different heads of a multi-head muscle can be stressed differently through different excerises. FOR EXAMPLE, YOU CAN WORK UPPER PECS VS. LOWER PECS. BUT INNER VS. OUTER? NO WAY!"

So really think about the movement it is virtually impossible. Like I said this is a legitamate article, not one of those fake MuscleMag articles.

 

[ciscokid1]

Some of you guys need to stop listening to your high school gym teacher and do some thinking on your own. Close grip benches working the inner chest more vs wide working the outer more, that is total bullshit. close grip benches may involve more tricep but not more inner chest.

 

[WarriorPL]

inner chest- medium grip bench press, dumbell flyes
outer chest- wide grip bench press
upper pec- incline bench
lower pec- decline bench
make ur chest workout hit all 4 of these
like for instance
3 sets wide grip bench press
2 sets medium grip bench press
3 sets incline bench
3 sets decline bench
2-3 sets decline
also upping the mass of ur inner chest will only make it look more like boobs but it actually looks good.

Wow, thanks a lot, i do decline, incline and wide grip ive never done the medium grip, maybe thats the problem thanks a lot everyone for you'r great replies!


~WizKid

 

[the-juggernaut]

lmao@ "Oh, and squat and deadlift you pussy!"
that's funny,,,,




if i scrach my balls in the forest and nobody is around,,does anybody see me when i smell my finger afterwards??,,,

 

[Tuna Guy]

Lie on your back, put an egg on the middle of your sternum, hold your hands out in front of you and crack the egg, good inner chest exercise.

 

[M56M]

A few people on this board (Cackerot69 and Robboe especially) seem to argue all day long that there is NO WAY to put more emphasis different heads or parts of a muscle group with different exercises. I mean I will agree with you guys 100% that you cannot ISOLATE a certain part of a muscle group. I definitely believe that you can put more stress on different areas in a muscle group with different exercises, while still working the entire muscle group.

How was it possible for me to never do an incline movement and 3 MONTHS and I do mean 90 DAYS after starting every chest workout with incline barbell presses, my upper chest grew to surpass my lower chest. Theyre symetric now but for a while my upper chest was thick as well and my lower chest suffered a bit.

You cannot tell me that when you do incline dumbbell presses you dont feel it more in your upper pecs and when you do decline dumbbell presses you dont feel it more in your lower pecs. How could bodybuilders for decades train their weak points with specific exercises to correct their weak points if thats impossible to do??

I am not trying to start an argument at all you both know your shit I have seen your posts on here but I just dont believe that.

Read my post above, that is exactly what i am saying.

M56M

 

[Belial]

 

[Robboe]

Hey kid you know I would think that everyone getting on your case about working your legs would get to you by now and you wouldnt be so worried about your upper body.

Let me put it to you this way there are a few of us that really ride you hard about not doing legs. Most of us have been lifting since you were shitting yourself. I would hope that you would actually take some of this as advice and do it.

My contribution to your question is your 16 it doesnt happen overnight and start squating and deadlifting.

Er...was this for whiz kid?

I hope it was or you are sorely mistaken...

 

[goahead]

I do not totally agree with the oneway street of Cack and Robboe, but they DO have affected my training philosophy in important ways, which has caused me to change my judgement on certain points.

My verdict:

- it think it is NOT possible to fully isolate parts of muscles or heads....

- I DO think it is possible to EMPHASIZE part of the muscle and make improvement in that area

- HOWEVER most exercises that EMPHASIZE parts of muscles are SMALL exercises, THE OVERALL development of BIG EXERCISES (I go with Robboe and Cack here) will in MOST CASES give MORE DEVELOPMENT in that target area too.
I.e: A big exercise like Heavy weighted dips may eventually grant you more sought after "Horseshoe shape" in the triceps than a small target exercise, such as dumbell kickbacks

- I think that IF u want to bring lacking areas up to par, you should at LEAST use another BIG EXERCISE that SLIGHTLY emphasizes that area more.

SO for innerchest you do not replace barbell pressing with pec-deck (which in my opinion does involve more inner pecs, but is TOO SMALL EXERCISE!) but replace barbell presses with dumbeel presses which allow for full range of motion AND heavy weight to be used

Oh and keep the pecdeck for the end of your workout, do some sets of 10-8 resp immediately followed by push-ups or dips (real kicker)


- I do NOT think you can your muscle shape blueprint BUT i think you CAN realize it's FULL POTENTIAL which can cause you to have a peaked biceps, which you didn't have three years ago!

Bottom line: if your genetics do not allow it you will not build the innerchest, but you wont know until you really tried it!

And this knowledge may manifest itself sooner if u stick to the big exercises.

 

[Robboe]

Prolly your best post i've seen goahead. Well done.

M56M: there prolly is one universal chest exercise, but BS such as isolation of certain parts of the muscle have shrouded it.

Also, you can 'emphasise' certain parts of muscles more e.g. inclines on pec minor but this will not cause localised growth.

End of story.

 

[Tuna Guy]

mate it is not end of story, be reasonable at least entertain the idea, idont really think it happens myself but im at least open to other viewpoints.

 

[MonStar1023]

I don't think that is true.

How about the pec deck, that definitely concentrates the inner chest.

Or dumbell flies also concentrates the inner chest.

This is only if the two are done right ofcourse.

If that was true then you would only have one "universal" chest excercise. Think about it. Why make so many different benches and machines if every exercise worked all the parts of the chest evenly. Bench, incline, decline, pec deck, dips--yes the overall chest is affected, but they all concentrate on one place more than another.

M56M

100% AGREED M56M

I couldnt agree more dude. There would seriously be ONE exercise for every single bodypart if you couldnt stress different parts of the muscle group.. each exercise contributes a little bit differently to whole package I think. You need to hit each muscle group with every possible exercise from every possible angle. For example I really believe that for chest you need an exercise for your upper and lower chest, along with your inner and outer chest. Its obviously impossible to isolate any part of your pecs but pec-deck flyes and cable crossovers emphasize your inner chest just as flat dumbbell flyes (focusing on the stretch) hit your outer chest more.

Robboe...
No one said anything about localized growth I never said that doing inclines would spur growth in your upper pecs and your lower chest would just stay the same or get smaller. In my case somehow really doing tons of incline barbell presses really helped my upper chest fill out to the max especially right under my collarbone. I mean why did adding chins to the start of my back routine add inches to the width of my back? Why didnt rows or deadlifts or pulldowns ever do this for my back? I mean how did dumbbell pullovers really thicked up my outer lats under my armpits a month or 2 after I addded them to my back routine?

 

[ciscokid1]

I too agree that you can put more emphasis on a certain part of a muscle but for example, compare the pec deck movement for pecs and the curl movement for bicep. They are similar they way that the muscle contracts, now as pointed out, you wouldn't say when curling that you are putting an emphasis on the lower or the upper part of the bicep or that you were isolating either upper or lower so why would it be different for the pec. Again upper and lower chest yes, but not outter and inner. Well at any rate that is my $.02

 

[goahead]

I believe you were able to make localized progression in your lats because the lat targetting exercises used were BIG EXERCISES (chins db rows...).

Probably you would'nt have made this kind of progression if u was to try and pinpoint the lats by doing straight arm cable pushdown or 1 arm cable rows....
and clearly deadlifts build thick spine , traps and lower backs but doesn't spread your wings....

My believe is that the effectiveness of a certain exercise for certain muscle can very roughly be measured by:

the weight you are able to use for lets say 8 reps:

- light 2 stars * *
- medium 5 stars * * * * *
- heavy 9 stars * * * * * * * * *

(my assumption is you get extra bonus stars for being able to do really heavy weight with 8 reps, as a strong person will likely be able to develope not only a BIT, but MUCH more muscle mass than a by nature weak person)

Multiplied by the RELATIVE amount of stress upon the muscle u wish to target compared to the stress this exercise causes in other assisting muscles and other exercises:

- small 2 stars * *
- medium 5 stars * * * * *
- high 9 stars * * * * * * * * *

(my assumption is you get extra bonus stars for being able to really target the muscle as ie dumbell curl gives MUCH more absolute stress to the biceps than ie reverse barbell curls, training forearms)

Now how would this work out for Average Joe doing triceps?

We give him three exercise to choose from , he must choos ONLY one!:

- dumbell kickback
- triceps pushdown
- weighted dips

Given Average Joes natural strentgh , length of limbs and biomechanics the equotions work out as follows:

DUMBELL KIKBACK:
amount of weight : 2 stars
amount of rel stress: 9 stars
VERDICT: 18 stars

TRICEPS PUSHDOWN:
amount of weight : 9 stars
amount of rel stress: 5 stars
VERDICT: 45 stars

WEIGHTED DIPS
(Joe is not very strong (yet) and still has problems making more than 4 reps with bodyweight because of his weak frontdelts)

amount of weight : 5 stars
(he is forced to do dips between benches as he cannot make 8 reps dips with bodyweight)

amount of rel stress: 5 stars
VERDICT: 25 stars

In this case Joe could for the time being make most triceps progression by using the triceps pushdown, if he gets enough overall strentgh he might try weighted dips again.

Lets compare this to another subject, Fredick.C.Hatfield aka "Dr Squat" who is used to lifting heavy weights in compound movements and has powerfull delts and pecs from doing heavy benching and millitary presses......

DUMBELL KIKBACK:
amount of weight : 2 stars
amount of rel stress: 5 stars
VERDICT: 18 stars
Dr squat is not used to do isolation movements and while using an absolutely heavier weight than average joe he find it difficult not to use momentum and keep arm in position (he has to reprogram his neuromuscular patheways)

TRICEPS PUSHDOWN:
amount of weight : 5 stars
amount of rel stress: 5 stars
VERDICT: 25 stars
this is a nice exercise for dr squat, he is able to lean somewhat forward and flare out his arms so the movement becomes a bit like a benchpressing motion. Dr squat is able to use a nice weight and get a nice pump in his triceps.


WEIGHTED DIPS
Dr squats hooks 3 plates of 25 lbs to his Belt and with all the power his body can generate he cranks out 8 grueling reps. The first two reps felt less specific than the triceps pushdown, but the sheer amount of weight made more than up for that after the fifth rep Dr Squat felt like his arms were exploding....
amount of weight : 9 stars
amount of rel stress: 5 stars
VERDICT: 45 stars

Yup, definately raw powermovents for Dr. Squat at this stage.


I hope this inspires you to find the right exercise for your program....

 

[goahead]

Minor error with Dr Squats Kickbacks i overrated him somewhat, but hey, you got message right?

 

[M56M]

I too agree that you can put more emphasis on a certain part of a muscle but for example, compare the pec deck movement for pecs and the curl movement for bicep. They are similar they way that the muscle contracts, now as pointed out, you wouldn't say when curling that you are putting an emphasis on the lower or the upper part of the bicep or that you were isolating either upper or lower so why would it be different for the pec. Again upper and lower chest yes, but not outter and inner. Well at any rate that is my $.02

Thats completely different, if you want to compare curls with bench, fare enough, they match up there is no certain isolation. But depending on how you turn your wrist you can isolate different parts of the bicep(upper or lower) using such things as cables, etc. If you do the pec deck RIGHT, then you should defnitely feel more of a burn in your inner chest, yes it works everything else, but it emphasizes more on a specific are. Not trying to argure just trying to make you think about it. My .02.

M56M

 

[Robboe]

For fucks sake.

Tuna guy: I WAS open to other view points fuckin' ages ago before i learned this was all Bull shit.

Monstar: It was the fact that your WHOLE chest got bigger that you noticed an increase in your 'upper chest'.
Horizontal rows and vertical rows are a completely different subject. The chest = one muscle. The 'back' = several muscles, so it is obvious that different exercises will bare different results.

M65M: You cannot isolate different points of the bicep - there are two points of insertion[hence "bi" - two.]

Oh, and monstar, i can tell you now that Nasser El Sonbaty's first routine was an all over body routine which was the following:

[all for 1 set]
Squats [thighs and a bit mo']
bench [chest/triceps]
Dead [bit of everything]
Row [back]
Press [delts]
Chin [lats/biceps]

So there is really one universal exercise for everything. Nasser used that routine when he was starting out and got pretty f'n big from it. [obviously he takes a bucket load of drugs] but it cannot be denied that that routine would work.

 

[ciscokid1]

Robboe, I am not trying to argue either and yes I know that by using different hand posistions you can alter what area of the bicep you are "hitting". But to me that would be like comparing incline and decline in the chest movements. The reason I compared the pec deck to the curl is because the contraction of the muscle, I feel, is very similar. For example at the begining of the pec deck movement the muscle is long and extended, just like in the begining of a curl movement. Now one has to bring the weight up or in the case of the pec deck over for the muscle to contract and, for lack of a better word, crunch together. Now are you telling me that at the very begining of that movement you are using "inner" vs. "outter" chest muscle, no, the whole muscle is being used equally during the full range of movement and it has emphasis on the lower pec do to ones arm position on the machine and the angle in which the range of motion is.

 

[Robboe]

Robboe, I am not trying to argue either and yes I know that by using different hand posistions you can alter what area of the bicep you are "hitting".

No you can't.

For example at the begining of the pec deck... Now are you telling me that at the very begining of that movement you are using "inner" vs. "outter" chest muscle, no, the whole muscle is being used equally during the full range of movement

What the fuck are you smoking? That's exactly my point! I ain't saying that there is an 'outer' and 'inner' chest. Pay more attention.

and it has emphasis on the lower pec due to ones arm position on the machine and the angle in which the range of motion is.

What the hell does it matter what is being emphasised more? Localised growth cannot, i repeat CANNOT occur.

 

[M56M]

Robboe,

Since you have this down to a science, i would really appreicate for you to post some pics and show us the reults. I think it will be very interesting. BTW, what are you stats?

M56M

 

[MonStar1023]

Robboe & Cackerot69...
You 2 have both seemed to completely talk about an entire different approach to bodybuilding. You both take decades of bodybuilding knowledge and claim that they were all wrong, and your all right with your thinking. BULLSHIT. Thats the biggest bunch of crap I have ever heard I have never disagreed more in my life. You 2 are gonna prove bodybuilding wrong!? Haha!

Dont be ridiculous! I am not saying Im a genius, because I am far from it. But Ill tell you one thing, 2 know it all punks on a message board arent convincing enough for me to change my training style. What are both of your stats? Can you provide pictures of how well your training beliefs has worked for you? How long have you been working out? Experience is the only key to knowledge in this sport. Someone training for 20 years knows a lot more then someone who trained for 3 but knows the science behind the sport. And just for the record my UPPER chest grew not my WHOLE chest. As much as you know me, and you know what on my body on grew, you DONT. Big boy stop being such a know it all asshole seriously no one wants to hear it.

 

[Bobba]

I personally think that what Robboe says totally makes sense. I really don't care if he is big as a fucking monster or not. We all know that the size of a guy doesn't tell you anything about how good his advice is.

What matters is if the advice makes sense or not. I mean if the biggest guy I've ever seen tells me to stop doing squats I would never do so. No matter how amazing he might look.

My point is that knowing Robboes stats is irrelevant, what he says makes sense to me, and it still will if he is 15 years old and 140lbs.

 

[Robboe]

What does it matter what my stats are? I don' take drugs and never have done [never will do] so impressing you guys with my stats will be pointess cause there is no doubt that there are many people bigger than me. Also, i could lie and be told i'm full of shit, or be honest and get told i'm full of shit so in the end there is no real point.

Here we go. My arguement has proved you wrong, so you resort to childish name calling and random patter that does not interest me.

This board is of no benefit to me - but i can be to you.

You guys can stick with your flex/musclemag routines that only work for genetic freaks or gearheads. You guys will get stuck in your routines and decide you are 'hard gainers', and will no doubt either give up lifting or resort to drugs. Fine by me. I'll still get my 8 hours sleep at night. You'll be the guys shortening your life span.

This arguement could go back and forth forever. And quite frankly, there is no incentive for me to come back to this board, let alone this post.

Monstar: Bodybuilding as you know it = gear. With gear there is little wrong.

Natural bodybuilding however, is different. This is my ball game and i'll help anyone who wishes to take my advice. For those that don't, i have no time for you...

 

[M56M]

Bro just think about what you are saying, if that would be true...

then we would walk in the gym, do flat bench on chest day, lets say 4 sets 8 reps to failure and have a developed chest.

But thats not how it works, most do 3 sets ? reps and 3-4 different exercises for each muscle. And so on for the next muscle...

How can you think that different angles and different exercise don't effect different parts of a muscle?


Well you are right stats are bullshit from this standpoint and so are pics....well what is your lifting routine...not trying to be childish just trying to see your point, i am trying to be openminded but i don't see it....sorry.

To my understanding it must look like this..(this is not to flame you in anyway, but is this what your saying, that one exercise will work the entire muscle?)

Mon-Flat Bench
Tues-Curls
Weds.-Squats
Thurs-Militiary Press
Fri.-Bent over rows


M56M

 

[MonStar1023]

Robboe...
I am not trying to offend bro.. I know I came across as harsh earlier but I honestly DO NOT see where your coming from at all. I am 100% ALL NATURAL, and I always will be. My training style is not saying that I use gear so I dont know where you got that from. My routine, or any routine I have ever done is not from Musclemag or whatever else you said. Stats dont mean a lot but I just dont know where you come off with the idea of trying to prove bodybuilding wrong. Natural bodybuilding is not a TOTALLY different sport than regular bodybuilding. There are a lot of differences when you use gear dont get me wrong but theres no way what your claiming is what a natural should be doing. As a matter of fact after I am finished with Titan Training... you can make me up your program and I give you my word that Ill follow it WORD FOR WORD and Ill keep you posted on how it works. I wont rule out what you have to say until I try it. And if I make NO gains whatsoever then I can completely disagree with everything you say with experience to back me up.

 

[Cackerot69]

Aw shit, I missed it.

Suffice to say that Robboe is 100% correct. You can in no way target (isolate nor emphasize) different parts of the pectorals major; whether it be upper or lower, inner or outer, 35 longitudinal or 35 latitudinal...it CANNOT be done.

Rather than focus my efforts on tearing down all the BS in this thread, I'll tell you what you CAN do. Enough of what isn't possible, what CAN you do in regards to muscle shaping? Unfortunately, there isn’t much you can do to change the shape of individual muscles, but what you can do is make these weaknesses less apparent. For example, if your upper chest appears to be underdeveloped then bringing up the pectorals minor and anterior deltoids, as well as increasing the overall size of the pectoral major will lessen the obviousness of this. You can also bring weak body parts up to par with stronger body parts through specialization/prioritization of your training. For example, if your arms are underdeveloped and your legs are overdeveloped then by focusing on your arms by putting more stress on them while simultaneously putting less stress on the legs (by decreasing training volume, intensity, etc) your arms, in time, will become less of a weakness compared to your legs. There is also the much more extreme option of surgery. Through surgery we can alter the origins are insertions of our muscles which would consequently change their shape. This practice has been shown to create very large decreases in muscular strength, coordination, mechanical function, motor unit activation, among other things. This basically means that although the shape of your muscle will be changed it will be at the expense of the proper use of this muscle, which isn’t a very good trade-off for those interested in bodybuilding and/or strength training. When it is all said and done, trying to change the shape of your individual muscles in a complete waste of time because it quite simply just is not possible. Your efforts should be focused on increasing the size of your muscles (muscle hypertrophy), the strength of your muscles, nervous system, and other strength promoting factors and when needed reducing fat mass.

 

[MrMuscle]

Standing cablecrossovers

 

[Robboe]

M56M: it is an all over body routine. That means they are all performed on the same day once a week. I know a guy from MM.com called Big Donnie Brasco who does that rouitne once a week and i've seen his pictures and he is a big dude now - and even calls himself a work in progress! By the way, where the fuck did the curls come from? I said chins. All compound movements.

I perform other exercises with my 'basics' [as listed above] because 'isolation' exercises [as cackerot says pretty much every post] remove the weak link.

Here's my routine:

all exercises = 2 sets each to failure.

Mon - extensions - [isolation - help my legs give out before my ass]
squats - compound
leg press - remove the weak link - lower back.
standing curls - isolation work for hams
seated calf or standing calf - whatever i fancy.

Tues: Bench - compound
flyes - isolation
weighted dips - compound - i do these fr triceps too incidently.
Seated skulls - this is my fav tricep exercise. A mix of isolation and compound if you will!

Fri - Chins - compound for mainly lat work.
deads - i think you know the answer to that one...
DB rows - compound for mainly 'middle back' work.
DB press - compound delt work
Machine side lats - isolation.
BB curl or DB curl - sometimes i do heavy/low reps for BB and then a higher rep [10-12] for DB curl.

That's it folks. My routine. I have hit 220lbs with this routine. I'm currently cutting.

And finally, M56M, yes some exercises have different results on the muscle e.g front raises over rear raises for delts, but with the chest this is NOT the case.

 

[Robboe]

I'd just like to say that my previous posts may have given the wrong idea about gear. I have some good friends who juice but it isn't for me. Those posts make it appear that using gear will lift the weight for you. I just need to clarify that i realise that you have to work just as hard with gear as you do naturally.

I just thought i had best say.

Oh, and Bobba, that you for you support. Much appriciated.

 

[Tuna Guy]

I do agree with what your saying mate, and if you had said the opposite to what you are saying i would still argue with you because im an argumentative cunt.
Taking into acount the origin and insertion points and motor unit recruitment i believe that you PROBABLY CANNOT emphasize one part of a muscle other another, but it is not 100% certain.

 

[the-juggernaut]

hey i only do bench press on chest day but sometimes that gets boring so i'll change up at times and do heavy dips instead, just like when i'm having sex with my girl all i do is the "doggie stlye" but sometimes that gets boring so i'll change up at times and get on top to hit it,,,that way i'm working the same muscles but at a differant angle and this way i'll get to look at the bitch cumming too,,(lol)




u thougth u were unbeatable, how does it feel to lose??,,"shaolin vs lama"

 

[McBainXVII]

hehehe lol this is heaps funny, the whizkid seems to have left the building........im 16 aswell, and yes i deadlift and squat.

 

[MonStar1023]

Robboe...
Damn youve hit 220 lbs.? Shit your stats are better then I thought... I am 220 lbs. now but I am cutting to really help out with my definintion. Your program looks pretty good I guess Ill seriously give it a run through after I am finished with Titan Training... how long have you been training with that type of style? Are your upper pecs lagging at all or no?

 

[Robboe]

As i say, the shape [including how well upper chest 'comes out'] is genetical.

I'm cutting up too incidently.

The routine is good.

 

[Liberator]

Robboe, why do you train your bis after back?

Tell me that

No-one responded ot my earlier question about this

Why not train them on a seperate day?

 

[Superbabe]

Just my .02 but Robboe, if the chest can only be worked as a whole then why are there 2 different chest muscles ( pectoralis minor, major) . . . . perhaps nature leaves one unused in case one goes mouldy and falls off at which point the other takes over . . . .



oh, and anyone who wants to see a chest muscle . . . or is looking for an appetite suppressant . . .
http://web.utk.edu/~pandread/Necturus/necturus1.html

 

[Cackerot69]

The purpose of the pec minor is to assist the major in all of it's functions and initialize the press.

 

[edgecrusher]

This is quite an interesting thread. All who have contributed, have offered excellent opinions and theories. One thing I will add, I have been trainning for approximately 11 years now. I first began using weights to aid my self-confidence, and assist me on the playing field. Later on I entered into the field of powerlfiting, (doing a program not to distant from the one robboe listed.) Now due to various reasons I have been trainning in more of a bodybuilding/shaping style.

When I was powerlifting and working out for sport, I used mainly the flat bench for my chest, as my only goal was power and functionality. I must say, my chest was not the center piece of my physique. My lower pecs were quite thick while the upper area was flat. (Needless to say most of my friends asked me where my sports bra was.) Anyway, once I began to change my routine and go the "bodybuilding" route I began to utilize the various other angular presing movements. Now, my chest looks completely different, my upper pecs are fuller, and the "gap" in the middle has discipated greatly.

Now I know what Robboe and Cackerot69 are saying, and I know where the thinking comes from, (I am an exercise physiology student.) One thing you must remember, those studies that show fiber activation all use EMG analysis. EMG is a very superficial test only testing the fibers that are very close to the surface of the muscle. Which leaves out quite a large percentage of the total fibers. The only true way to accurately record all active fibers, is through muscular biopsy. Which lets face it, is not a viable option for most.

Here is an idea Robboe why don't you try incorporating inclines into your routine in place of flat bench (just a suggestion.) The movement still incorporates a large amount of motor units, and may actually help to strengthen your flat bench, by increasing your strength in another plain. Again, just a suggestion. ANyway sorry for the long winded post, I hope it was helpful.

 

[Robboe]

Liberator: The biceps are the smallest muscle i hit directly. Why would i waste a whole session on them when they are already fooked from back training? that would be like doing them twice a week which would reduce the amount of rest they have and would most likely either a) prevent optimum growth, or b) actually diminish them.

2 sets after back and they are growing nicely.

Edgecrusher [that song rocks BTW]: I used to do inclines for ages but realised that they did nothing special for me. All they did was give me great shoulder strength [i could lift the same weight above my head for DB press as i could Incline DB press]

The 'fuller' upper chest you obtained could have been down to a larger chest on a whole since you had been training for longer by the time you started building for mass. The same goes for the gap between your pecs.

Also, if you leaned out for more muscle definition this gives the appearance of 'larger', 'fuller' muscles because they become more apparent. This could also 'close' the gap of your chest.

P.S. I am pleased you enjoy learning about exercise physiology

 

[MonStar1023]

"Also, if you leaned out for more muscle definition this gives the appearance of 'larger', 'fuller' muscles because they become more apparent. This could also 'close' the gap of your chest."

This is definitely true Robboe.. when I stick to my diet for long periods of time I really feel like I am getting bigger but all thats really happening is I am leaner which is making my muscles look at lot bigger. Good job pointing that out.

 

[Liberator]

Robboe

Why would you waste doing them after your back session when they have already been pre-fatigued through all the back work?? thats like doing two major bicep sessions in one workout anyway?

if you did triceps after back and bis after chest this would make more sense to me as you would be able to directly hit them using much more weight = much more growth because they are unrelated

no flame, i just want your opinion

 

[ciscokid1]

Sorry Robboe that last post was meant to say M56M in front of it not your name. Anyway, I meant to say that using differnt hand posistions doing curls you can emphasise different parts of the arm. Ex. Hammer Curls.

But whatever, I'm tired of this thread. But as far as this board being no benefit to you but the rest of us could benefit. Well let me just say it is good to know that there is someone here that knows everything and has nothing more to learn, now anytime I have a question I'll immediately come right to you.

 

[edgecrusher]

Roboe

At what angle did you do the incline press at? I know if I use a standard incline press bench I only feel the movement in my shoulders. I need to use a standard adjustable bench, and bring it up to the first level. And I use dumbells.

I'm not sure about your dieting answer about the apperance of a fuller chest. I only say this because I only realised I had this problem after I dieted for the first time.

Have I changed my opinion on training? Absolutely not. Have I changed yours? Highly unlikely. It is good however, to see that there is a place we can come to discuss and exchange intelligent comentary on something we all enjoy and participate in so much.

LAter

Edge

 

[MonStar1023]

Edgecrusher...
Agreed. I dont think anyone on here is so gullible to completely change their entire way of training because of what someone says. But its good that everyone can discuss what works for them.

I am going to try Robboe's type of training style though and see if that works for me.

Robboe...
Your upper pecs arent lagging at all. Without an incline movement my upper chest would suffer BIG TIME!

 

[Robboe]

Monstar: you'd be suprised.

Lib: even after back work i can still lift heavy. if i did the way you described that would mean hitting arm muscles hard at least twice a week - throw in shoulder work and your triceps are gonna be fucked. It's not worth it. Spend less time in gym and more time out of it - resting and growing.

Edge: between 30 and 40 degrees i would say.

Oh and i woulkd say the dieting thing is prolly responsible for your 'fuller' chest. But if your methods work for you then power to you.

 

[Cackerot69]

I used to always do inclines myself, before flat...and my chest never changed shape *sigh*

 

[bignate73]

liberator
your question regarding working a prefatigued muscle vs while its fresh. its all preference. though it would be ideal, maybe for some to work the biceps while they are fresh, perhaps working them at the end works better for the individual. less volume, less time spent, same effect. its not about the amount of weight or the length of time you work the muscle, but the overall stimulus for change. you like working them while the muscle is fresh and spending possibly the first 5 sets getting them to the point where they are at after a back workout and only 3 sets will be the finisher. follow me? its all about overload. if its a "amount of weight" thing, then go for it. if its about stimulating the muscle to growth, thats a whole other ballgame.

 

[The mann]

i've heard pec dec flyes........also closegrip.

 

[Belial]

One thing you must remember, those studies that show fiber activation all use EMG analysis. EMG is a very superficial test only testing the fibers that are very close to the surface of the muscle.

Actually, I'd be the last one to come out in defense of EMG studies, but.... There are two types: surface EMG and deep EMG, the former being done with a surface electrode, the latter being done with a glass or copper electrode (or series of electrodes) inserted deep into the muscles.

For the record: I agree with Cack and Robboe. Not I could think of anything to add that they haven't....

 

[edgecrusher]

Actually, I'd be the last one to come out in defense of EMG studies, but.... There are two types: surface EMG and deep EMG, the former being done with a surface electrode, the latter being done with a glass or copper electrode (or series of electrodes) inserted deep into the muscles.

None of the studies I have every seen have used an invasive technique like that. They have all used surface emgs, from what I understand.