IMPORTANT: Studies are False and Misleading!

[Mr.X]

I talked about the nolva issue because it is a good example of a study done right, not by pharm companies.......bad thing is that these all occur years after the drug has lost its patent and other groups test the drugs in an unbiased manner.
I get your point X, ive taken classes where we go indepth into this specific issue.....however, there are a number of good companies with good drugs that publish relativly good reports (peer reviewed are good one, but not exempt to what you are speaking of).

There is fraud, but to say it is all fraud is nonsense. Its like saying the placebo affect is just as good as the drug (another thing weve discussed at lenght). The truth is, drugs are released that work, some have studies done on them that hide the effectiveness or toxicity, but its deffenitly not all of them.....

Let me ask you this, you said you've taken "classes" where you go indepth about the issue, can you tell me who funds research studies done by most universities? Also, I'd like you to look up Stanford university and Genentech, and find out how much influence a pharmaceutical company like Genentech has on the information that comes out of Stanford. You'd be surprised how many studies are black-balled and shut down because they say anything negative about a pharmaceutical or food company's products.

Also, look up how many pharmaceutical and food company lobbies are out there, to pressure/bribe the FDA and FTC. I don't believe for 1 second that there is truly independent data out there, the minority that's semi-independent is going to be bias or misleading in one way or another. After all, someone has to fund these experiments and studies, and it's not going to be someone with no innate interest in the subject at hand.

 

[galaxy]

Just because nolva may cause a decrease in libido doesnt mean your hpta isnt recovering so isnt it all moot. As long as you recover is the important thing and its only 3 weeks your running the nolva alone..Anyway carry one.

 

[boxerjake]

Nothing new here ...

 

[bigrand]

Let me ask you this, you said you've taken "classes" where you go indepth about the issue, can you tell me who funds research studies done by most universities? Also, I'd like you to look up Stanford university and Genentech, and find out how much influence a pharmaceutical company like Genentech has on the information that comes out of Stanford. You'd be surprised how many studies are black-balled and shut down because they say anything negative about a pharmaceutical or food company's products.

Also, look up how many pharmaceutical and food company lobbies are out there, to pressure/bribe the FDA and FTC. I don't believe for 1 second that there is truly independent data out there, the minority that's semi-independent is going to be bias or misleading in one way or another. After all, someone has to fund these experiments and studies, and it's not going to be someone with no innate interest in the subject at hand.

I will most likely be working for genentech when i graduate in a couple weeks, so ill let you know then!!!

Again....i know that there are tons of studies that are dropped cuz they show the drug in a bad light.....i just dont agree that ALL studies are bad. I guess ill have to go do some looking, dont have the info on-hand!

My psychopharm teacher is just like you, totally negative about the pharm industry, but even he knows not all are bad news~!

 

[SgtSlaughter]

lots of good bros in here, I didn't bother reading the whole thing after it became a semi-warish thread


Lots-o-Test flyin' around that's for sure.

Moral of the story, don't believe everything you read... and read everything you can to formulate your own opinion

annnnnnd, I'm spent

 

[Mr.X]

Moral of the story, don't believe everything you read... and read everything you can to formulate your own opinion

annnnnnd, I'm spent

exactly

 

[Wrongun]

Just because nolva may cause a decrease in libido doesnt mean your hpta isnt recovering so isnt it all moot. As long as you recover is the important thing and its only 3 weeks your running the nolva alone..Anyway carry one.

Thats my view as well

Wrongun!

 

[deezknuckles]

Wow. Alot of misinformation in this post.

I'm not going to be naive and say that fraud does not occur, that publication bias does not occur (publish good results, do not publish bad results)., and that some studies are designed based upon flawed or misleading questions.

BUT... to basically say that the 30+ billion $$$ of pharmaceutical research and development plus the hundreds of thousands of academics scientists (who spend their lifetime and stake their reps on pursuit of science) are frauds is absolute horseshit. This sounds like a looney liberal Michael Moore conspiracy. And to imply that the EVIL drug industry can "blackball" negative media attention is a good one too. The New York Times is more than happy to publish juicy stories that protray the drug industry in a bad light or to expose fraud, and almost all major papers/broadcatss follow thier lead.

The drug industry is the 2nd most highly regulated industry in the country (next to nuclear). Drugs are approved in the US based upon randomized controlled clinical studies with pre-defined criteria that are set for comparison based upon a scientifically validated statistical criteria in which drug A is compared to Drug B. The doctors and the patients are usually blinded as to which drug they are getting to eliminate any bias. The FDA has full and open access to the hospital study sites and the company research facilities and audits the shit out of them. We have the most stringent system in the world.

Drug research is not perfect and there are dishonest people out there, there are unimaginative scientists out there, and there are flaws to the system but to imply that a bunch of dudes relaying their subjectives experiences on an internet chatroom is a more scientifically valid manner in which to determine safety and efficacy of drug than a properly statistically-powered, randomized, controlled clinical study is horseshit. Pure science does not lie, pure science does not have an agenda, people do.

 

[OMEGA]

I'll be sticking with Adex and Nolva

 

[needtogetaas]

lots of good bros in here, I didn't bother reading the whole thing after it became a semi-warish thread


Lots-o-Test flyin' around that's for sure.

Moral of the story, don't believe everything you read... and read everything you can to formulate your own opinion

annnnnnd, I'm spent

good post.