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Important info on volume and intensity.
- Thread starter davidpro
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prophet
Guest
swolecat is right! alterenation HIT with volume training is a good move!
P
prophet
Guest
realgains whats our def of "volume" here...if you go by the mags you are def going to over train without gear. my volumes work outs consist of 3 exercises for big muscles with 3 sets per exercise 9 total working sets not including warm ups....my HIT is pretty straight forward 1 warm up 1 set till failure (also use drop sets, rest pause, and increase weight till failure) usually 3-4 exercises and 3-4 total sets takes about 15-30 mins for HIT worksouts
prophet said:
A lot of men do not gain well doing ultra intensity very low volume training as it is simply too intense to allow for nervous system recupertaion so beware.
TRAINING WITHOUT STEROIDS
3-6 working sets per muscle group not counting warm ups.
3-4 for bi's for example and 5-6 for chest. Some hard gainers can't even do this amount of volume without over training.
Quads need only 3-4 due to the high effort and effectiveness of squats and deep leg presses.
Train infrequently like.... MON-WED and FRI on a three way split.
Take each set to the point were another good rep isn't possible even if I held a gun to your head. Forced reps used minimally or not at all.
Rest pause reps are okay from time to time...that is...after finishing a set put the weight down and rest 10 seconds then pick it up again and do more reps...do this 2 or 3 times. Works great for calves and biceps especially.
The focus should be on adding small to tiny amounts of weight to the bars weekly and NOT INTENSITY. Intensity will come along..the focus has to be correct and it should be micro loading weekly at all costs
.
Get some small plates www.fractionalplates.com
Some can gain well with more volume but they have good genetics.
ON GEAR with average genetics... 90% of the bro's and ALL ECTOMORPHS
Same type of routine but train every other day.
You can increase the working sets to 4-6 for small groups and 6-9 for larger groups except quads where less is needed.
This is pretty much Quadsweeps training volume while on steroids
ON GEAR with good genetics. 5-10% of bro's
Volume and training frequency can go up but I don't think it really helps most guys, although there are exceptions. These guys do need to at least reduce volume while off and it would be wise to reduce training frequncy too.
So one reduces training frequency and also reduces volume from lowish to low while off steroids. Also intensity needs to be reduced while off so be careful..no negatives for sure and no forced reps for most.
Dorian Yates and Mike Mentzer proved without a shadow of a doubt that high volume isn't necessary and can be counter productive for most men. You don't have to train with Yates's intensity in order to get quite big, and some can't train with that intensity level at all.....but volume training is NOT a good alternative for most.
Bodybuilders in general can learn from power lifters and Olympic lifters..some of which are VERY HUGE. They do much less volume even while on gear than most bodybuilders. It seems that Arnolds and his high volume had quite an impact on people even 30 years latter.
RG
Mandinka2
New member
How I train
This is my natural split:
Legs/Shoulders/Biceps
3 sets of squats/hacks 15 reps (about 370lbs.)
Calves 2 sets stnading calf raises
lateral raises - 12 reps immediately followed by smith machine presses. 2 sets
1 set of bicep work (preacher machine)
2 days rest:
Back/Chest/Triceps
2 sets of heavy pullovers (300 lbs.) 13 reps then immediately row machine 6-8 reps (260 lbs.)
1 set of flyes (62lbs.) 13 reps immediately followed by pec dec with excruciating stretch to finish.
1 set of rope extensions (we have no fucking tricep bar in the gym!) followed by pushdowns.
Finish with one heavy set of deadlifts (12 reps)
2 days rest then start again.
On gear , just one day rest between sessions. Have grown very well on this split naturally.
This is my natural split:
Legs/Shoulders/Biceps
3 sets of squats/hacks 15 reps (about 370lbs.)
Calves 2 sets stnading calf raises
lateral raises - 12 reps immediately followed by smith machine presses. 2 sets
1 set of bicep work (preacher machine)
2 days rest:
Back/Chest/Triceps
2 sets of heavy pullovers (300 lbs.) 13 reps then immediately row machine 6-8 reps (260 lbs.)
1 set of flyes (62lbs.) 13 reps immediately followed by pec dec with excruciating stretch to finish.
1 set of rope extensions (we have no fucking tricep bar in the gym!) followed by pushdowns.
Finish with one heavy set of deadlifts (12 reps)
2 days rest then start again.
On gear , just one day rest between sessions. Have grown very well on this split naturally.
Re: How I train
Okay bro....you are training along the right llines while natural but I can improve on the program..
I don't think the pre exhaust super sets are the greatest for most. Its hard to progressively increase weights used with pre-exhaust and this is the most important factor and not intensity per say...... Leg extension/Squats maybe yes but only after you can deep squat 400 pounds 15 times.
You shold stick more with the big basic compound movements.
Where are the deep Squats? Or at least deep leg presses?
Where is the stiff leg or regular deadlift.....you have left out the two best exercises bro, especially for a natural.
Regular curls are better than the preachers and close grip benches or machine dips all with elbows in are best for the triceps.
And bro the flyes/pec deck thing won't do that much for ya...decline benches or dips with elbows flaired are best for overall pec developement.
The key is to increase weight weekly for the same reps in small to tiny jumps in the compound movements. Put 30 pounds on your declines for example and believe me your triceps and chest and shoulders will be much bigger..mor eto come as I have to go to work now.
RG
Mandinka2 said:
Okay bro....you are training along the right llines while natural but I can improve on the program..
I don't think the pre exhaust super sets are the greatest for most. Its hard to progressively increase weights used with pre-exhaust and this is the most important factor and not intensity per say...... Leg extension/Squats maybe yes but only after you can deep squat 400 pounds 15 times.
You shold stick more with the big basic compound movements.
Where are the deep Squats? Or at least deep leg presses?
Where is the stiff leg or regular deadlift.....you have left out the two best exercises bro, especially for a natural.
Regular curls are better than the preachers and close grip benches or machine dips all with elbows in are best for the triceps.
And bro the flyes/pec deck thing won't do that much for ya...decline benches or dips with elbows flaired are best for overall pec developement.
The key is to increase weight weekly for the same reps in small to tiny jumps in the compound movements. Put 30 pounds on your declines for example and believe me your triceps and chest and shoulders will be much bigger..mor eto come as I have to go to work now.
RG
P
prophet
Guest
i like this.......
1 chest back
2
3
4 shoulders tris bis
5
6
7legs
8
repeat
or
1 chest shoulders tris
2
3
4back bis
5
6
7legs
8
repeat
1 chest back
2
3
4 shoulders tris bis
5
6
7legs
8
repeat
or
1 chest shoulders tris
2
3
4back bis
5
6
7legs
8
repeat
Mandinka2
New member
RG
When I squat I put the motherfucker thru the floor , as others have said to me , "It's not balls to the ground , it's balls through the ground" ,that means down until there ain't no place left to go , otherwise I'd squat 500 like every other guy on elite (he he). I don't like leg extensions cos it feels like my shins are gonna shatter with the weight, that and the fact that every spandex wearin idiot in the gym uses em. I think you didn't exactly pick up the post correctly , I squat and deadlift every third day and with max weights and high reps. The fact that I do deadlifts at the end is cos I wanna take the CNS right to the limit at the end. I got this from Arthur Jones who used to make the trainees squat and deadlift at the end (i.e. before collapse!). As you mention , chest could use a decent pressing movement but the fact is benching for me is just a shoulder exercise , to get slabs of muscle on the chest , I have to isolate the bastards. I find it too easy to cheat with regular barbell curls , and the gym has these variable resistance air machines which allow for decent drop set and negative (very rare) work. We are very much in agreement ,-deadlifts and squats are the way forward , everything else is just so much confetti.. In fact what would you say to me switching the squats (one set) to the end of the leg workout and just doing 2 sets of hacks followed by one set of leg presses at the start? Once again thanks for your help , I appreciate it.
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