I REALLY need your help bros.....

[JKurz1]

Ok,please don't move this to the diet board, as it does have relevance here....I just trained for a local comp. and did ok. I was about 6'2.5 and 190 at a tad under 5%bf....That was 2 months ago. Now, I'm obviously the same height, but my weight is about 178 soaking wet. My strength has begun to plummet, my appetite sucks, and I'm looking frail. I'm probably 7-8%bf, but I can't seem to gain some solid weight because I want to hit my bulking cycle of test, deca and eq, but also dont want to waste it being to skinny (and having no appetite)......here is my daily plan by the hour:430 - WAKE and cardio

WAKE at 4:00am (have to, cpa and it's busy season....must be at work by 6am and working 65+ hour weeks)

4:30 Train - mainly 5x5, with a few additional sets.....1hour max, no cardio

5:30 PW shake - 20g of pro, 40g of carbs (gluc)

630 - 1/2 cup of steel cut oats, 2 scoops of protein (35g.)

930 METRX or EAST MEAL REPLACEMENT SHAKE, 1/2 cup of low carb skim


1200 6-8 OZ CHICKEN AND 6-8OZ YAM
LARGE SALAD and steamed veggiesl

230 35g of pro from tuna, tb of flax

430 light cardio (35 minutes walk on treadmill because I've been sitting for 10 hours...just to move around)


600 4OZ CHICKEN OR FISH OR CUP of Egg Whites, FEW cups of steamed veggies and LARGE SALAD

900 PROTEIN SHAKE W/ SKIM AND EGG WHITES (SLOW DIGESTING) - couple 3 handfuls of roasted nuts, veggies (Fiber) and ff dill dip


Obviously my protein is adequate.....my last snack is an attempt to hold me over to train the next am..........I have that "gettn fat" fear, but now I'm at the point where if the abs go, so be it....don't want to look so sunken in (face).........thanks for reading, promise to K some solid support............How in the hell do I put on the mass LEANLY! Not a powerliffter, so dont want to go that route, just looking for some solid changes..........

 

[powerforward]

ditch the cardio. up your protein to twice BW of your target goal.
Ex. if you want to hit 225, you need 450 grams of protein daily.

Don't be afraid to eat some junk. If you are 8% bf now, going to 10-12% wont kill you. You can always add the cardio back in, once you start putting on weight.

Also do a search for dc training and cycling for pennies. Great info.

 

[JKurz1]

thanks bro.....just need some specifics to add in to the diet....like what do you guys eat to put on some meat? My diet is strict as all hell....that's gotta be my problem.....+ I need the cardio...for sanity.....it's killing me to sit for 10+ hours.....cardio is mild at best......

 

[sweed]

Ya i would say do cardio 2-3 times a week, and up the carbs too

how much protein are u getting now per day? if yr 180 njow, i would say at leasyt 300 would be good

 

[JKurz1]

i think my protein is ok.....what about the other macros? Does it matter?

 

[georgie24]

read fukkenshredded's posts bro, i been doing it for a couple of weeks and feel pretty damn good

 

[Bonkme2]

Well, think of it like this...

Even if you could take in 400g of protein a day, and that's all you had, you'd only be taking in 1600 calories. That is no where near enough to put mantain any bodyweight, let alone put on some weight. I realize you're getting more than just protein, but is it enough? At 180 + the cardio everyday, maybe you need 2500 calories, just for maintenance? (That's purely a guess...somebody else chime in maybe) Another 500 to put on some weight. Are you getting 3000 calories a day?


For me personally, when I'm trying to put on some mass, if I'm not putting on some fat, I feel like I'm missing out. I feel like I may not be giving my body all it can use to put on some size. Keep the protein high, lose the sugar, lots of water, and whatever I can stuff down my throat every couple of hours.

If you can stand the time away, I say ditch the weights for a while, and keep the cardio to low intensity, even if just for a week. The loss of appetite is one sign of overtraining. With all the working you're doing, it maybe too much for you; you may need some rest. I say get some good rest for a while, and come back after a week or two with a vengeance.

 

[JKurz1]

k to you....good post........do you guys have a diet outlined that would maybe help me....looking at my diet, what would you guess my cals are? 2,900?

 

[Bonkme2]

If I had to guess on the calories, I would say 2900 is a little high. But then again, I don't eat yams or nuts or a lot of that stuff, so I'm prolly not the best judge.

But either way...are you still losing weight? If that's your typical diet, and a typical work and gym day, is your weight still on the way down? The bottom line is, your body needs so many calories to function from day to day. If you're gaining weight, than you're eating more than your body needs. If you're losing, than you're not eating enough.

Now that I look a little closer, ~15lbs of lean mass in 2 months is a helluva lot of weight to lose. Were you on cycle for your contest? Maybe you're test levels are way low and that's why you're having trouble? Or maybe you're really, really overtrained?

Anyone else have some ideas?

 

[Stillgoing]

BRO -

Coming from another tall guy -

1- If the stats you gave are correct, you've lost a SUBSTANTIAL amount of muscle since your contest. Something is going horribly wrong. You may be shut-down hard. Did you do PCT? Have you had your bloodwork done? If no bloodwork, get it done immediately. If your test is low, you need to run another PCT right away. I'll bet this may be part of the problem.

2- You need to loosen up the strict diet right now. Your not eating enough real food. You need more meat, you need to add in red meat atleast every other day, and, you need to add more fat and carbs for that matter. Bottom line: up your calories from real food significantly. This is the other part of your problem.

Trust me - your probably shutdown and your in calorie deficit mode and those two combine for a real nasty catabolic state (as confirmed by your stats).

3- If you want to bodybuild (and I take it you do since your competing) you need to take some serious time to grow. You don't have enough lbm to be competing yet. You can't afford the diet time to take away from your growth time.

Take these steps and I think you'll see rapid improvement.

 

[Bulldog_10]

I'd increase the protein and carbs post workout, and eat a small meal before your workout, if you can eat that early. That will give you another 500 calories or so. Also, try throwing down a couple tablespoons of olive oil spread out through the day...it'll give you the good fats, and it's dense in calories, so you should add 300 calories there too...and then you're up a good 800 or so calories, with those two changes, and you should start slowly adding that muscle back on.

Don't go overboard with your diet, just add 500-800 calories and you'll add that muscle back without too much fat. If you want some more specific stuff you can email me...but it might take a few days to get back to you. I have this program that you can just plug in the food you eat, and it spits back all the nutrition info at you so you can make the necessary adjustments.

One more thing, make sure you're getting enough vitamins and minerals...try getting a good vitamins supplement, not those one a day things...but a real vitamin supplement. You can eat all the protein you want, it's not gonna do shit without the coenzymes.

Anyways, good luck bro...

 

[JKurz1]

Thanks for all the help bros........I did my post thearpy, it's just the mere fact that I have run smack into tax season......many, many meetings, very little time to eat, sleeping has gone to hell, and I was foolish to think I could keep training like I did pre-comp......In addition, I havent changed my diet much since my cutting phase and I'm prob. shut down a little too.........Mind you, I was 240lbs when I initially started, but that was 22 months ago.......so, I know HOW to get there, it's just a problem losing the ripped physique..........but you guys are right....I need to settle down, eat, eat, and train............I HAVE to do the PM cardio...something.....like I said, I sit all day.......would the bike be better than walking on the treadmill? Should I eat a twix bar while I'm riding? haha......seriously though, could you guys post up your current daily diet and stats...it would help greatly....K to each of ya.

 

[JKurz1]

What if I just toss in a ANPB sandwhich with every meal and then some oats at midnight???????

 

[needsize]

some good suggestions on this thread
My thoughts, if you have trouble gaining weight, ditch the cardio. I havent done cardio since Aug, but still have abs. Also, if you are having trouble gaining weight, dont stress about eating clean. I was doing the same thing, and I got nothing from it. It was only when I cranked up the calories that I started to make gains again

 

[Stillgoing]

Bro I'm an investment banker and in the middle of a big deal right now, so, I know what your talking about with work. My secret I guess is canned meat. Here's my diet for what its worth:

Meal 1- 5am - protein shake
Meal 2 - 7am - two protein bars, 2 bagels
Meal 3 - 11am - can of chicken
Meal 4 - business lunch - meat - red if possible
Meal 5 - 2pm - 2 cans tuna
Meal 6 - 5pm - 2 cans tuna
Meal 7 - dinner at home (hopefully) red meat & salad
Meal 8 - before bed - protein shake

On the weekends I make sure to get one to two good cheat meals in. Your body needs it and your mind needs it.

Good luck.

 

[jubei]

Eat mcdonalds. Stay away from the fries and pop, but eat 2-3 large sandwiches a day (big mac, quarter pounder, mc chicken, etc)

 

[JKurz1]

so really, your carbs and fat are pretty low too.........I dont get it.........NS - you're right....some very intelligent bros here, tis why I came.......you have no idea what it's like to be active for all your life, then be forced to sit for 10-12 hours at a clip........I need to do something as a afternoon release......35 min of LIGHT cardio can't be that destructive, can it?

 

[powerforward]

jkurz1 why not move your training to the afternoon instead of cardio?

 

[JKurz1]

I thought about that.....Except I only have a 30-40 minute break, so I gotta be fast....would be too rushed....after April 15th, I will, trust me............good suggestion..........

 

[thelegacy again]

bro--if your sitting 10 hrs per day--please DONT ditch the cardio--your body and mind need it....all you have to do is up the calorie intake and defenetly carb intake----what you are eating is almost exactly what i am eating for my cutting diet right now--what you are eating i have lost 15 lbs on...bro if your trying to gain eating like woman is not gonna put on MAN weight..

 

[Stillgoing]

so really, your carbs and fat are pretty low too.........I dont get it.........

Because you and I are in totally different situations right now. You are shutdown and in calorie deficit and in a catabolic state. I'm your height, 255lbs under 10% and not shutdown.

You probably don't want to listen to me, but, I'm sure on this one, right now you need more calories. As your test comes up, not much will turn to fat. Once you break out of the catabolism, you can tighten the diet back up.

 

[CPA22]

Tax season is a rough time and your body is just getting hit hard by the lack of sleep, stress, deadlines and everything else in between. Maybe it wouldnt be a bad idea to not workout as much and focus on your work.

I remember when I interned in the summer at a very large international accounting firm, i lost 10lbs the first week!!!! Everyone at my gym was making fun of me and i did everything in my power to get bigger, whether it was grabbing hot dogs, pretzels, and peanuts of some vendor on the corner in New York City. I was actually consuming MORE cals, fats etc. then i did previously to working. However, when my internship ended the weight came flying back on.

Jkurz, accounting takes a life of its own as I am sure you are readily aware of. Eat proper, get some rest and bang out those returns. The gym will always be there so dont run yourself down to the ground.

Good luck,
CPA22

 

[ProtienFiend]

have a shake or fruit before your morning cardio....

thats all i have to add

oh.... take some creatine since ur not on cycle

 

[JKurz1]

All great responses (well, Jubei was sort of a joke) and I K'd you guys...thanks for the help....guess the best answer to my problems is to increase the calories (already a a cup of steel cut this am instead of 1/2....hey, I'm gettn there)....and keep the cardio at a low intensity....maybe crank it up twice a week, MAX......I will continue to train 5x per week for an hour max......intense, and heavy...........I remeber in college, I used to eat a footlong tuna subway on wheat after every single workout.....+ I ate non-stop college buffets, drank beer on the weekends, and was a solid 240 and strong as hell.......I def. wasn't fat, but I wasnt nearly as tight as I am now.......no one liked my idea of eating a pb sandwhich with every meal and a midnight bowl of oats? That's how Sly Stalone did it for the movie COP...........speaking of training, to those who train for muscle development and not so much strength (ie powerlifters) what does you routine look like? Esp. leg day, thats my one major weakness.......

 

[Stillgoing]

All great responses (well, Jubei was sort of a joke) and I K'd you guys...thanks for the help....guess the best answer to my problems is to increase the calories (already a a cup of steel cut this am instead of 1/2....hey, I'm gettn there)....and keep the cardio at a low intensity....maybe crank it up twice a week, MAX......I will continue to train 5x per week for an hour max......intense, and heavy...........I remeber in college, I used to eat a footlong tuna subway on wheat after every single workout.....+ I ate non-stop college buffets, drank beer on the weekends, and was a solid 240 and strong as hell.......I def. wasn't fat, but I wasnt nearly as tight as I am now.......no one liked my idea of eating a pb sandwhich with every meal and a midnight bowl of oats? That's how Sly Stalone did it for the movie COP...........speaking of training, to those who train for muscle development and not so much strength (ie powerlifters) what does you routine look like? Esp. leg day, thats my one major weakness.......

Legs: still just the basics. Squats, leg press, extension. Squats are harder for tall guys, after 15yrs of it, I've given it up entirely for heavy hack squats and its working well.

 

[JKurz1]

gimme your routine...sets,reps bro..........

 

[Bulldog_10]

Sets and reps depend on the phase I'm in (periodized schedule). But this is what my leg days during hypertrophy look like:

Day one:

Squats 3 sets 8-12 reps
SLDL 3 sets 8-12 reps
Leg Extensions 3 sets 8-12 reps
Glute/ham raises 2 sets 8-12 reps
Seated calf raises 3 sets 8-12 reps

Day two:

Deads 3 sets 8-12
Hack squats 3 sets 8-12 reps
Lunges 3 sets 8-12 reps
Standing calf raises 2 sets 8-12 reps
(Maybe some hamstring curls if I'm up to it...same rep scheme)


Then when I move into the next phase, I up the weight and decrease the reps on the core exercises...but never go below 8 on the assistance exercises (leg extensions, hamstring curls).

Hope this helps bro...

 

[guards]

It looks to me like you need to eat a lot more.


If you are bulking, you are not eating nearly enough IMO. Up your carbs a little bit, maybe a couple of potatoes, and get some red meat in there.


My 2 cents


I couldn't gain shit on that diet. I would cut on your diet, not bulk.

 

[JKurz1]

i agree 100% and like I said, this was the diet I used to get down to sub 5% levels..........problem is, I'm not hungry (usually would be at this point) so I have neglected to change.........can you tell me what meals to add on to? Thinking about adding a chicken wrap to my chicken, green beans, yam and salad at my third meal......but even the wrap is only 50 calories.......no one likes my peanut butter at every meal idea huh? Too much fat.......

 

[Stillgoing]

i agree 100% and like I said, this was the diet I used to get down to sub 5% levels..........problem is, I'm not hungry (usually would be at this point) so I have neglected to change.........can you tell me what meals to add on to? Thinking about adding a chicken wrap to my chicken, green beans, yam and salad at my third meal......but even the wrap is only 50 calories.......no one likes my peanut butter at every meal idea huh? Too much fat.......

Bro - either you didn't get my point or you did but dismissed it, which is fine. To make sure atleast I was understood: adding in chicken wraps and salads and green beens "aint" it. You need to add some real food now, with substantial calories. Your body is telling you something is really wrong to have lost that much muscle in that period of time. Listen to it. Feed it for a while. Get your bloodwork done. Run another PCT if you need to. After a month or two, when you've got the muscle back and some test flowing again, then look at tightening it up again if you want. And I'm not saying eat like a pig, I'm saying eat clean but double the calories at a minumum.

That's all the help I can be on this topic. Good luck.

 

[JKurz1]

Man, I just cruise out to Chipolotes and get a huge fat ass beef burrito to toss in with my 8oz chicken breast, yam, salad, and green beans, and then I read this..........of course I got your point and apprecite the help. Don't get so pissed bro, as this wont be an easy process for me......I'm still llearning, and I'm been called "hard-headed" a few too many times before.......thanks again bro for your help and if you have any suggestions to really beef up my meals, please tell me....I'm thinking red meat instead of chicken, doubling my portions, and adding a full jar of ANPB every 3 days or so is a start........If you guys could also toss in your current leg routine (THANKS BULLDOG) I'd appreciate it.....this is what I normally do when training for size....

Squats x 5 - all in 12,10,8,6,6,5 - first is warmup
SLDL - 3 x 8.......
Hacks 12,10, 8, 6
Leg Press x 3 8-10
leg ext and leg curl x 3

Ever do step ups on a bench holding dbells? Might try those today instead of hacks.........

 

[ProtienFiend]

let me try to reiterate what i think Stillgoing is trying to say:

STOP BEING SO GOD DAMN PICKY!



Just eat whatever you can, as much as possible (within reason). Dont say: chicken wrap here, green been salad there....

Just eat whatever you can whenever you can till things start falling into place again!

PF

 

[JKurz1]

Ok, I'll be blunt. I worked too damn hard to get to where I was (190, 5% and still strong........) but somewhere. I f'd up and lost too much weight after the show........I'm not an idiot.....I've done the research and I know what to do....It's just the mind set of losing the abs, losing the strations, etc........Was looking to you guys for the support and aid to get me through this and most of you have been incredibly supportive. But, to hear, wuit being so pick, sucks when I know that......I just want to pack on some mass as lean as possible.....I'm not in a rush....1-3lbs a week or every 10 days is fine......just want to get back to "fighting weight"...


I tell myself everyday, quit being so damn picking, but my mind and guilt are way too overpowering.....that's why I need a drug or something to help beat this thing......maybe a little mary jane would do me good...lol......maybe.........

anyways, thanks again for you thoughts and PRAYERS....lol....and let me know if I didnt hit with some K.......

 

[gimp]

I work crazy hours too....
I'm aware that some may be against this, but, I will down a weight gainer (n-large) if I can't eat a solid meal. In the a.m....I prepare 2 dry ones, I basically just throw the powder in a protein cup. Then when I have a 5 mins break...I add water and that's it. I make sure I get in solid meals as well. I don't tend to gain fat this way...but, I guess it depends on your body type.

 

[JKurz1]

Not a matter of not having the time to eat...it's figuring what I need to do to boost my calories...I'm pretty sure I used Peanut butter to get me through my previous bulking stages, but I gotta fix that mind over matter dilemma!