I need help and advice

[Bigbaldy33]

I’ve been lurking on this site for a bit and greatly appreciate all of the knowledge that has been shared.

Now I feel that it is time for me to ask some advice from you guys in regards to my situation so here goes:

I’m 45 years old. I’m 6’1” and 230 lbs at 12% body fat. I’ve been pretty fat over the last 15 years (I was up to 300 lbs as of 1/1/2009) but went on the HCG diet and lost 40 lbs and then worked off the last 30 in the gym. Been pretty serious with weight lifting for 15 years.

I have been on TRT for approx 5 years. My Dr prescribed 1.5 cc of test cyp every 2 weeks (which I split in half for a weekly dose). At the beginning of this year, I began a cycle of 1cc of cyp, 1cc of deca and 1cc of Eq a week for 10 weeks (I divided the weekly dosage in half--Sundays and Wednesdays). I did 2 cycles of this unfortunately and ignorantly without a PCT. Towards the end of my last cycle, I started to lose my libido and got an issue with ED. I also started to grow lots of hair on my back. I’ve been off of everything completely for one and a half months and went to an endo for some bloodwork to get things back on track--I still have no libido and have an issue with ED. Here are the results of my bloodwork (I have to go back for estrogen and other work which I asked about and he neglected to get with the first set of tests):

SHBG 32 nmol/L range 9-45 nmol/L
FSH 1.5 mIU/mL range 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
LH 2.5 mIU/mL range 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
Prolactin 5.8 ng/mL range 2.0-18.0 ng/mL
Testosterone total 178 ng/dL range 241-827 ng/dL

The endo said that since my FSH and LH levels weren't elevated, it indicated that the lack of test wasn’t from an issue from my testes but from something with my pituitary so he’s sending me out for an MRI to see if there are any tumors there. He’s also testing me to see if there is an issue with my body absorbing too much iron and the iron getting trapped in the pituitary causing issues. To me, a lot of this is just guess work to make money on his part. I’m completely miserable off of the TRT but have to wait a little more until all of the testing is done.

My question is this:

Did the EQ or the Deca make my libido/ED issues come around? How long will it take my body to get back to normal from those hormones (I’ve been off the EQ/Deca for 2 months and will soon go back on my TRT)? What can I do to fix this now that won't interfere with the blood tests that I have to take in 3 weeks?

I have also been considering HGH into the mix once this gets all settled. Has anybody been able to get their MD to buy off on this as part of a TRT? What is required to get insurance to buy off on this?

I’m very frustrated (as is my 30 year old girlfriend) so please send me in the right direction.

BigBaldy33

 

[caribeman]

First of all sorry for your situation. I have not run deca but have talked to people who ran it and did get some ed. Usually the Test to Deca ratio is 2 to 1 and you run the Test for a few weeks longet than Deca. As for the eq, I could think it could have contributed to the issue at hand but not sure. For what I see your Test total is very low, perhaps a better idea would have been to stay on the recommended Test amount or even up it a tad for a few weeks as mentioned below.

For what I understand with Deca users they cant take Cabasser (check the spelling) and some have reported improvements but others have not. Again, not all Deca users report ed either. In the mean time if you still have the desire to be intimate with your girl you can take some ed medicine (Viagra, Cialis) and that should resolve the issue for time been.

Figure out if youre going back on TRT then no PCT is needed. As for the HGH I will leave that to someone who knows.

 

[Bigbaldy33]

For sure I'm going back on TRT. My test levels have been in the basement for years for whatever the reason. I'm wondering how many people here actually have a diagnosed reason for the drop in test other than old age or AAS usage. My feeling is that the tests he wants me to take (MRI for pituitary tumor and test for high iron absorption ) aren't just ways for him to make money on me when its just andropause.

Thanks

Bigbaldy

I was also wondering if anybody got their MD to prescribe HGH as part of a TRT and did their insurance buy off on it.

 

[ProfPump]

My question is this:

Did the EQ or the Deca make my libido/ED issues come around? How long will it take my body to get back to normal from those hormones (I’ve been off the EQ/Deca for 2 months and will soon go back on my TRT)? What can I do to fix this now that won't interfere with the blood tests that I have to take in 3 weeks?

BigBaldy33

My opinion is that your problems are being caused by high estradiol (E2) levels. You did nothing in your cycle to control E2. It will be interesting to see what your E2 level is, if he ordered the right (sensitive) test.

Of course Deca, and EQ to a certain extent in some people, can contribute to the problem. That's why they call it deca-dick.

Both the TRT and your cycle shut down your HPTA. This is the signaling and feedback mechanism from the pituitary to the testes that regulates the production of sperm, testosterone, and a few other products. You still haven't recovered so that is why the LH and FSH are low. You should respond to clomid or HCG. HCG is LH.

I run HCG consistently throughout my HRT at a low dose, 250 IU, 2-3 times per week. This assures that the boys stay plump, and produce whatever they are capable of producing. There are LH receptors in other parts of the body, notably the brain, so it just makes sense to me to supplement with it if we are going to shut down the natural LH production with TRT.

I don't know about the iron, but your endo is being prudent to order the MRI. That is the standard protocol for endos in the case of secondary hypogonadism. Most of the time if a tumor is found, it is a benign adenoma.

It is much easier to demonstrate to an MD that you need GH than it is to convince an insurance company to pay for it. Mine won't even pay for my HCG. Your best bet is to tell them that your MD suspects low GH and ask them what they require to demonstrate sufficient need to cover it. Otherwise you might consider growth hormone stimulating peptides. Do your research and look for a British chap who goes by the name of DatBtrue.

 

[Bigbaldy33]

I neglected to state that I did an 8 week run of HCG prior to the blood tests. Maybe it wasn't long enough. I did 50 iu eod for the 8 weeks. Thanks for the responses

 

[XMAN.]

I neglected to state that I did an 8 week run of HCG prior to the blood tests. Maybe it wasn't long enough. I did 50 iu eod for the 8 weeks. Thanks for the responses

if ur trying to recover u need a heavy pct protocol, at least 1000 iu hcg (LH) eod (or m-w-f) for 3 weeks and add some HMG too 75 iu eod (FSH) do clomid, adex and dostinex (it'll help alot with libido issues) with it and keep it on 3 weeks more than ur hcg hmg time, which means 6 weeks total.

PCT protocol 6 weeks total

WEEK 1-3

HCG 1000 IU M-W-F
HMG 75 IU M-W-F
CLOMID 50 MG / ED
ARIMIDEX 0.5 MG / EOD
DOSTINEX (CABER) 0.25 MG / E3D OR TWICE A WEEK

WEEK 4-6
CLOMID 50 MG / ED
ARIMIDEX 0.5 MG / EOD
DOSTINEX (CABER) 0.25 MG / E3D OR TWICE A WEEK

 

[Bigbaldy33]

Xman, let me recap what's been going on. I've been on HRT for the past 4 years. My GP doc prescribed me test cyp @ 300 mg every 2 weeks. At the beginning of this year I did a small cycle of cyp/deca/eq 1cc each per week. I then waited 2 months and did the same cycle again. Half way through the cycle, my libido went into the toilet. Did the above (now know poorly planned ) HCG cycle with no improvement. I found an Endo and had some tests done. The first test was taken 1 month after stopping HRT. The results were:
SHBG 32 range 9-45 nmol/L
FSH 1.5 range 1.6-8.0 miu/ML
LH 2.5 range 1.5/9.3 miu/ML
prolactin 5.8 range 2.0-18.0 ng/ml
Total test 178 range 241-827 ng/Del

I started the HRT back up at the previous level for one shot until I read on this site about getting my estrogen levels tested. Went back to the Endo, waited 1 month after the shot and got more tests. Here's the results:
estradiol (e2) 12 range <52 PG/ml
Total test 194 range same as above
estrone serum 20 range <68 pg/ml
Igf-1 ecl 220 range 50-303 ng/ml

The Endo put me back on HRT and said I can self administer my amount of cyp but he doesn't want me blown out of the range. During this entire time my libido has been in the toilet and I have a quasi ED issue.

The Endo says I have idiomatic hypogonadism (in other words, cause unknown ).
Will a strong pct regimen like u suggested bring my body back to somewhat normal? Do I discontinued my HRT to do the PCT? Keep in mind that I originally went on HRT years ago for low test levels. I'm 45 years old 6'1" weigh 240 @12-14% bodyfat. I work out all the time. I was somewhat obese in 2008 (weighed 305) but lost weight doing the HCG diet, working out and the divorce diet(LOL). Also, can I just take dostinex for libido on HRT? I'm not worried about sperm count---done with kids. The Endo also says my testes are not atrophied and I don't look like your regular low test patient. What is considered normal testes size?

Thanks in advance for any knowledge you can impart

Bigbaldy

 

[caribeman]

Is you issue libido (desire or lack there of) or ED (unable to gain/sustain an erection)? Big difference between the two....

 

[XMAN.]

Xman, let me recap what's been going on. I've been on HRT for the past 4 years. My GP doc prescribed me test cyp @ 300 mg every 2 weeks. At the beginning of this year I did a small cycle of cyp/deca/eq 1cc each per week. I then waited 2 months and did the same cycle again. Half way through the cycle, my libido went into the toilet. Did the above (now know poorly planned ) HCG cycle with no improvement. I found an Endo and had some tests done. The first test was taken 1 month after stopping HRT. The results were:
SHBG 32 range 9-45 nmol/L
FSH 1.5 range 1.6-8.0 miu/ML
LH 2.5 range 1.5/9.3 miu/ML
prolactin 5.8 range 2.0-18.0 ng/ml
Total test 178 range 241-827 ng/Del

I started the HRT back up at the previous level for one shot until I read on this site about getting my estrogen levels tested. Went back to the Endo, waited 1 month after the shot and got more tests. Here's the results:
estradiol (e2) 12 range <52 PG/ml
Total test 194 range same as above
estrone serum 20 range <68 pg/ml
Igf-1 ecl 220 range 50-303 ng/ml

The Endo put me back on HRT and said I can self administer my amount of cyp but he doesn't want me blown out of the range. During this entire time my libido has been in the toilet and I have a quasi ED issue.

The Endo says I have idiomatic hypogonadism (in other words, cause unknown ).
Will a strong pct regimen like u suggested bring my body back to somewhat normal? Do I discontinued my HRT to do the PCT? Keep in mind that I originally went on HRT years ago for low test levels. I'm 45 years old 6'1" weigh 240 @12-14% bodyfat. I work out all the time. I was somewhat obese in 2008 (weighed 305) but lost weight doing the HCG diet, working out and the divorce diet(LOL). Also, can I just take dostinex for libido on HRT? I'm not worried about sperm count---done with kids. The Endo also says my testes are not atrophied and I don't look like your regular low test patient. What is considered normal testes size?

Thanks in advance for any knowledge you can impart

Bigbaldy

first i was trying to explain how a standard pct protocol looks like, but knowing ur story now and at ur age i strongly recommend that u go back to HRT as soon as possible but increase the shot frequency to at least once per week if not twice which is much better, and for ur size weight and age and ur total test count in the past 2 tests i think ur going to need at least 200mg of test per week not less 300mg every 2 weeks is nothing for u.
ur going to need some AI also to keep estro in check and a dopamine agonist like caber (dostinex) for prolac and libido start at the lowest dose of each and see what will happen, for ex adex 0.5mg /e3d (or twice a week) and dostinex 0.25mg twice a week. u can keep running hcg at 500iu /week (or 250iu twice per week) just to keep ur balls functioning at minimum, u can't know if ur testes are working by just looking at them u won't notice the difference in size, the shrinkage of the testes is minimal when not functioning but u can know it by ur sperm count.

 

[Bigbaldy33]

Caribiman, its mostly libido. No drive at all. Up until a few months ago, a stiff breeze was all I needed to get going. Now I have to get suckstarted. As far as ed, I can get an erection but I can't cut glass with it like I used to. It also doesn't stick around as long.

Xman, how long do I need to continue with the ancillary stuff? I'm already ahead of you with the amount of cyp. I'm 2 weeks into 200 mg per week. As far as HCG, I've had a vasectomy so I can't get a sperm count and don't careabout nut size. I just want more libido and erection power like I did a few months ago and my whole life until recently.

Thanks again guys

Bigbaldy