I Finally think I'm dialed in....

[JKurz1]

First day out of bed in 4 days. Put down with a severe case of pnemonia, which was probably my body telling me it's enough already. Needless to say, I lost some weight, but again, glad I dint start my planned cycle. You guys told me my cals suck, so here's my revamped plan of attack. Cycle will just be the basic 500mg of test, with dbol to front the first 4 weeks. I'll save the EQ and winny for post.

730 - LIGHT, LIGHT 35 MINUTE BRISK WALK

830 - 3/4 cup steel cut oats
225g of dry curd cottage chesse with a few pieces of fruit
1 cup egg whites

1030
2 pieces of whole wheat bread
2tb of ANPB
50g whey shake

1230
3 servings (about 80g carbs) whole wheat pasta
10oz chicken breast, steamed veggies

300
225 dry curd cc with few pieces of fruit
1/2 cup oats OR myoplex carb sense bar

500
TRAIN

630
50g whey with 25g dext.

800
225 dry curd cottage cheese

930
50g casein shake

1000
BED

GOT TO BE CLOSE TO 4,000 CALS.........6'2, 175, 7-8%BF

 

[JoNeS]

Only thing I'd change is Kill one of your Protein shake's and replace it with 10' oz of Lean Steak

 

[JKurz1]

thanks bro.....and karma.

this is already 3x my current caloric intake. Let me try this for a couple of weeks, unless you see need for a big change, and if no progress, I'll gladly take your advice!!!

I think it might be too much dairy, but we'll see....casein is suppose to be top protein.

 

[kbrkbr]

I think you need some protein in your system while you're training.

 

[JKurz1]

I think you need some protein in your system while you're training.

I got about 175g in before 500, I think I'll be ok............

have you guys tried the myoplex cookies n creame carb sense bars? I'm not a bar fan, but they are to die for..........Ill also toss in a 12" subway or quiznos here and there.......

 

[Joe Stenson]

I wouldn't call 2 tbsp of PB a sufficient fat intake...or anything close for that matter.

 

[JKurz1]

I wouldn't call 2 tbsp of PB a sufficient fat intake...or anything close for that matter.

DAMN!

Nice pick..........I missed it.........well, my bread is on flax bread giving me an additional 6g of fat, I'll take 1tb of flax or fish oil at 3pm and add 2tb of pb or peanuts to my last shake..........

 

[Joe Stenson]

Nice pick..........I missed it.........well, my bread is on flax bread giving me an additional 6g of fat, I'll take 1tb of flax or fish oil at 3pm and add 2tb of pb or peanuts to my last shake..........

Good call with the flax/fish oil, as well as having some fat with the pre-bed meal. I like it.

Remember, don't be afraid of fat. I would think on a 4000 calorie diet, you'd want at least a good 100g of fat. It's less important when on cycle than not, but you should still aim for a respectable intake.

 

[JKurz1]

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Joe Stenson again.


thanks bro........you think I got too many cals in there? Never have eaten this much fat and carbs in my life.......I'm gonna bet I'm just beginning and will have to double my intake again. Plan is to see if I put on 1-2lbs this week, and if so, start my cycle on monday.

 

[Joe Stenson]

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Joe Stenson again.


thanks bro........you think I got too many cals in there? Never have eaten this much fat and carbs in my life.......I'm gonna bet I'm just beginning and will have to double my intake again. Plan is to see if I put on 1-2lbs this week, and if so, start my cycle on monday.

No man, 4000 cals seems like a good starting point. You can adjust from there after a couple of weeks as you see fit, but it's time to start packing on some nice LBM!

As for the 1-2 lbs this week, be weary of the lost weight from your sickness. You should gain back most of the weight you lost regardless, so that will have nothing to do with your diet.

 

[JKurz1]

another good point............prob. got that back today though


Whey/dext pw or a mrp like myoplex which I have about 4 cases of?


Also, I'm guesstimating on 4k, could be more.....I have a salad during the day, the fruit I can't really measure cauise it's like 5 blueberries, 2 strawberries, 1/2 banana, the nuts I just grab a couple handfulls, same with peanut butter.....goal with that is a jar a week <---hell, my mom does that!! LOL


you had the myoplex bars yet???????

 

[Steve The Bluesman]

Red meat!!! And throw some Flax oil in those shakes...Egg yokes aren't going to kill you either. Man, with the cottage cheese and the casin, you must be farting up a storm in the gym...

Being sick sucks. I got the flu in week 4 of my last cycle in March. Man was I pissed.

Good luck,


Bluesman

 

[Joe Stenson]

another good point............prob. got that back today though


Whey/dext pw or a mrp like myoplex which I have about 4 cases of?


Also, I'm guesstimating on 4k, could be more.....I have a salad during the day, the fruit I can't really measure cauise it's like 5 blueberries, 2 strawberries, 1/2 banana, the nuts I just grab a couple handfulls, same with peanut butter.....goal with that is a jar a week <---hell, my mom does that!! LOL


you had the myoplex bars yet???????

A Myoplex shake post-workout is fine. Haven't tried the bars yet. I tend not to eat bars mostly as an issue of cost than anything else.

If you're eating the same things every day it doesn't matter as much, but you should really try to count calories. It's the only way you'll ever know how much you need to be eating to grow.

Red meat!!! And throw some Flax oil in those shakes...Egg yokes aren't going to kill you either. Man, with the cottage cheese and the casin, you must be farting up a storm in the gym...

I agree on the red meat, flax oil, and egg yolks. You don't HAVE to include them, but there's also no reason to shy away from them if that's what you're doing.

Steve, you should get your hands on some ginger root if you have problems digesting protein. It's really the only supplement I take that I can tell is really working. Haven't had much gas in years and my protein intake has only increased...and trust me, it used to be BAD, lol.

 

[JKurz1]

Agreed and thanks to all...I will be eating pretty much the same thing........I will toss in a egg then 2, etc each week and see how it progresses

My 3rd meal with have 10oz of lean meat, via chx, red meet, tuna, etc

are my final three meals, if I have a myoplex pw too close together? Got to get them in before bed and it's not easy........

 

[Joe Stenson]

I'd move the 8pm meal to 7:30 if possible, but not a big deal.

 

[JKurz1]

I'd move the 8pm meal to 7:30 if possible, but not a big deal.

done....

are you pretty lean? I could easily do gatordae during and whey after......i just have all these bars and mrps i wanted to get rid of...and a whole tub of dext

 

[Joe Stenson]

are you pretty lean?

Nope, that's why I'm cutting . Ask me again in a couple months .

I could easily do gatordae during and whey after......i just have all these bars and mrps i wanted to get rid of...and a whole tub of dext

I never said my way is optimal, no need to copy it. Bars (as long as they don't have too much fat in them), MRPs, whey/dex, it's all good. Your overall diet is going to be a much bigger factor in your results than a single meal, and yours is looking solid.

 

[JKurz1]

you bastard.......lol.............anyone have an optinion on PW?

 

[JKurz1]

thanks for the help though................efas and fats are a must...only confusion is pw, but apperently its not so important as getting SOMETHING in........

 

[Joe Stenson]

only confusion is pw, but apperently its not so important as getting SOMETHING in........

If you ate absolutely nothing post-workout, but were consuming 8K cals/day do you think you wouldn't grow? Single meals don't matter very much. The whole post-workout thing has been completely overblown. Do you think Arnold used to have a dextrose/whey shake after his workouts?

 

[JKurz1]

If you ate absolutely nothing post-workout, but were consuming 8K cals/day do you think you wouldn't grow? Single meals don't matter very much. The whole post-workout thing has been completely overblown. Do you think Arnold used to have a dextrose/whey shake after his workouts?

no, but I've had the chance to witness Cutler do it.............point taken.

 

[Joe Stenson]

no, but I've had the chance to witness Cutler do it.............point taken.

Yeah, bodybuilding "science" has increased over the years, so you might see guys doing things that give 0.001% better results (because every little bit helps when you're competing)...just proving a point with Arnold though.

It's also not to say that I wouldn't recommend whey/dextrose or something similar post-workout. I just wouldn't sweat it if you can't/won't do it for whatever reason. There's many different ways to skin a cat.

 

[bicepts101]

post workout:
70gcarbs-dex/maltodextrin
50g whey isolate
creatine wouldnt kille either

 

[bicepts101]

Yeah, bodybuilding "science" has increased over the years, so you might see guys doing things that give 0.001% better results (because every little bit helps when you're competing)...just proving a point with Arnold though.

It's also not to say that I wouldn't recommend whey/dextrose or something similar post-workout. I just wouldn't sweat it if you can't/won't do it for whatever reason. There's many different ways to skin a cat.

im pretty sure ronnie coleman doesnt take protien shakes

 

[JKurz1]

im pretty sure ronnie coleman doesnt take protien shakes

Agreed....I read that too.........he eats small children though, a ton of food, prob. more than me in 3 days.......

 

[silverbackn]

That is no where near 4,000 cals, more like 2,500. Your carbs are very low also. I know you said this is way more than you have ever eaten. What are your stats and goals? You need some beef in there somewhere. Go to 75 grams of dextrose post-workout. You need way more carbs to grow.

 

[Joe Stenson]

im pretty sure ronnie coleman doesnt take protien shakes

I watched a couple of his videos a few months ago. If I'm not mistaken, he does have protein shakes. I can't remember when though, ie. post-workout or not.

You need way more carbs to grow.

Not taking anything away from you personally bro, cuz you look great, but this is false. He may need more CALORIES to grow. This could come from any of the 3 macronutrients though. There's people out there who bulk better on a higher fat low-carb diet, and his diet's not even low carb at all.

 

[stuck]

That is no where near 4,000 cals, more like 2,500. Your carbs are very low also. I know you said this is way more than you have ever eaten. What are your stats and goals? You need some beef in there somewhere. Go to 75 grams of dextrose post-workout. You need way more carbs to grow.

I think silverbackn is right jkurz. That looks like around 3000. But, without knowing the info on the cottage cheese, it's tough to tell. Are you getting some sorta kickback from the cottage cheese farmers? Ugh that stuff makes me gag just thinking about it.

edit: I ask cause I've only used it in the past at night, cause of the casein.

 

[JKurz1]

That is no where near 4,000 cals, more like 2,500. Your carbs are very low also. I know you said this is way more than you have ever eaten. What are your stats and goals? You need some beef in there somewhere. Go to 75 grams of dextrose post-workout. You need way more carbs to grow.

Do me a favor and calculate it for me, if it's not at least 3,500, I'll ship you 3 boxes of protein bars free of charge......seriously. It's a wager, not a slam, I just think you arent calcualting correctly.

Keep in mind, the steel cut oats are at least 75g of carbs
the peanut butter is 2 big ass spoon fulls, so maybe more than 2tb

the bread is flax seed bread at 20g. per slice and 3g of fat per

the pasta is 1/3 of a box, which has 8 servings, 40g of carbs in each serving, that's at least 110g of carbs right there, let alone the veggies

the chicken is skinless, but when it's red meat, it's round steak

the afternoon oats is more than 1/2 cup, as I toss in a few nice pinches

I'm going through 2 tubs of dry curd a day, 400cals per tub, 80g of pro, 2g of fat

The evening has peanuts or peanut butter in the shake, 2-3 giant handfulls, or 2 huge spoonfulls of ANPB

and at least 6 scoops of protein powder daily..............just some additional info.

Oh, and a sub for the 3rd meal 3-4 times a week, and dinner at a resteraunt on the weekends.............I'm thinking it's over 4,000

 

[JKurz1]

Also, really thinking of going against my thoughts and theories and adding in the boxes of bars I have and maybe even Muscle Milk before bed...........thoughts? Dumb?

 

[silverbackn]

Do me a favor and calculate it for me, if it's not at least 3,500, I'll ship you 3 boxes of protein bars free of charge......seriously. It's a wager, not a slam, I just think you arent calcualting correctly.

Keep in mind, the steel cut oats are at least 75g of carbs
the peanut butter is 2 big ass spoon fulls, so maybe more than 2tb

the bread is flax seed bread at 20g. per slice and 3g of fat per

the pasta is 1/3 of a box, which has 8 servings, 40g of carbs in each serving, that's at least 110g of carbs right there, let alone the veggies

the chicken is skinless, but when it's red meat, it's round steak

the afternoon oats is more than 1/2 cup, as I toss in a few nice pinches

I'm going through 2 tubs of dry curd a day, 400cals per tub, 80g of pro, 2g of fat

The evening has peanuts or peanut butter in the shake, 2-3 giant handfulls, or 2 huge spoonfulls of ANPB

and at least 6 scoops of protein powder daily..............just some additional info.

Oh, and a sub for the 3rd meal 3-4 times a week, and dinner at a resteraunt on the weekends.............I'm thinking it's over 4,000

I am pre-contest and don't really feel like adding up calories from copious amounts of cottage cheese. I don't eat bars anyways they are fucking garbage. I guess it doesn't seem like much food to me because I have been up to 1,000 g's of carbs a day for an extended period of time. I hope you have good success from it, I guess I am just used to eating about twice what you do. Not a flame, I just have a fast metabolism and have been up over 250. That looks like a cutting diet from where I stand. Then again, no one has ever said I am normal. Good luck with it bro, hope you swell the fuck up!

 

[badslinky]

If your lookin for a good bar these are never fail... EAS Advent Edge Carb control bar (Double chocolate crisp). They have about 230 cals, 7g fat(5 sat), 0 cholesterol, 350 mg of sodium, 170mg pot., 3g impact carbs, 1g sugar, 20g protein. Great tasting bars!

 

[Throw2Far]

The only protein in ur system when u train will be from that Cottage Cheese... IMO You need more protein around the time of training... 30g just isnt enough when metabolizing that much protein... Also on a high protein diet digestive enzymes could help alot since ur not getting them each meal.

btw ur diet looks similar to mine with all the Cottage Cheese but Im at about 9k calories right now... keep it up and you'll gain...

 

[JKurz1]

I go one question.....how friggn fat do you guys get? I dont want to go too high, and after one week of this force feeding, I feel like turning baclk. I figure I need at least 2 weeks, without turning back in order to start my gear. So, July 1 will be the date, baring no catastrophy. Here's my diet this past week to a tee. I feel like a bloated fat pig. Depression set in after seeing my abs start to fade, but hopefully it is just an initial shock sorta thing. Would you change anything?

630 - LIGHT, LIGHT 35 MINUTE BRISK WALK

730 - 3/4 cup steel cut oats (dry) got to be 75 carbs
225g of dry curd cottage chesse with a few pieces of fruit
1 cup egg whites

1000
2 pieces of whole wheat bread
2tb of ANPB
50g whey shake in carb sense skim

1230
3 servings (about 100g carbs) whole wheat pasta
10oz chicken breast, steamed veggies
Large salad

300
225 dry curd cc with few pieces of fruit
1/2 cup oats OR myoplex carb sense bar

500
TRAIN

630
50g whey with 25g dext. or MRP (myoplex) 50g protein, 30g carb

800
225 dry curd cottage cheese handfull of peanuts

930
50g casein shake handfull of almonds

1000
BED

 

[JKurz1]

If you ate absolutely nothing post-workout, but were consuming 8K cals/day do you think you wouldn't grow? Single meals don't matter very much. The whole post-workout thing has been completely overblown. Do you think Arnold used to have a dextrose/whey shake after his workouts?

best point.........post is overrated..............like today, I'll have a meal within an hour.......no PW shake.

 

[silverbackn]

best point.........post is overrated..............like today, I'll have a meal within an hour.......no PW shake.

It's not that post is overrated, there is no more crucial time for you body to slow catabolism and refeed itself to grow, it's that total calories are underrated. Some people focus too much on post-workout and not enough throughout the rest of the day. Please no more Ronnie Coleman comparisons guys, it asanine.

 

[Joe Stenson]

It would really be a lot easier for us to comment on your diet if you gave us the calories for each meal; it's not difficult to count them. It really doesn't look like you're overeating. You just have to get over this fear of getting fat you seem to have. Try not looking in the mirror so much.

It's not that post is overrated, there is no more crucial time for you body to slow catabolism and refeed itself to grow, it's that total calories are underrated. Some people focus too much on post-workout and not enough throughout the rest of the day.

I still think PWO is overrated, but good post nonetheless.

 

[silverbackn]

It would really be a lot easier for us to comment on your diet if you gave us the calories for each meal; it's not difficult to count them. It really doesn't look like you're overeating. You just have to get over this fear of getting fat you seem to have. Try not looking in the mirror so much.




I still think PWO is overrated, but good post nonetheless.

Yep! Putting weight on is more of a mental challenge than physical. I don't care when my abs aren't totally crisp, sometimes you have to go all out to get real size!

 

[JKurz1]

Few minor changes:

630 - LIGHT, LIGHT 35 MINUTE BRISK WALK

730 - 3/4 cup ROLLED oats
225g (1/2 TUB) of dry curd cottage chesse with a few pieces of fruit
1 cup egg whites

945
2 pieces of whole wheat bread
2tb of ANPB
50g whey shake

1230
3 servings (about 100g carbs) whole wheat pasta
10oz chicken breast, steamed veggies, LARGE SALAD

300
2 PIECES WHOLE WHEAT
CAN OF TUNA
5-10 PEANUTS
OR myoplex carb sense bar

500
TRAIN

630
1/2 TUB OF DRY CURD COTTAGE CHEEST

830
50g casein shake

900
BED


GOT TO BE CLOSE TO 4,000 CALS.........6'2, 175, 7-8%BF

 

[Joe Stenson]

Whoever said this was on to something:

It would really be a lot easier for us to comment on your diet if you gave us the calories for each meal; it's not difficult to count them.

Seriously though, going through that I count about 3000 calories, give or take a couple hundred.

Why are you eating egg whites? This is a bulk; eat whole eggs. Have some fat with the pre-bed meal as well.

 

[JKurz1]

Whoever said this was on to something:





Seriously though, going through that I count about 3000 calories, give or take a couple hundred.

Why are you eating egg whites? This is a bulk; eat whole eggs. Have some fat with the pre-bed meal as well.

PROTEIN CARBS FAT
630 - 1 CUP EGG WHITES 26 3 - 122
3/4 CUP Oats 13 54 5 311
HANDFULL OF BERRIES ETC - 20 1 75
250G DRY CURD 40 5 1 200
79 82 7 708


915 PROTEIN SHAKE 50 8 3 250
2 PIECES WW TOAST 4 28 3 195
2 TB ANPB 10 8 16 200
64 44 22 - 645

1200 6 OZ CHICKEN 48 2 6 250
3 SERVINGS PASTA 6 105 3 535
LARGE SALAD 2 30 20 300
56 137 29 - 1,085
3:00
2 PIECES WW TOAST 4 28 3 195
FEW PEANUTS 7 4 10 110
CAN OF TUNA - - 16 180
11 32 29 - 485
500 TRAIN

7:30 PM
250G DRY CURD 50 5 1 311


900 PROTEIN SHAKE W/ SKIM AND EGG WHITES (SLOW DIGESTING) 35 10 4 220
ALMONDS 15 8 20 220
VEGGIES 1 20 - 110
51 38 24 550
930 BED

-

311 338 112 3,784

 

[Joe Stenson]

Whole eggs instead of whites will easily put you at 4000 calories, not to mention taste a lot better.

 

[JKurz1]

done............3 eggs, 6 whites

 

[chefbone]

I would never purposely consume fat for a pre-bed meal. You want protein and thats it. Maybe minimal fat but I wouldn't go overboard with whole eggs.

 

[JKurz1]

I would never purposely consume fat for a pre-bed meal. You want protein and thats it. Maybe minimal fat but I wouldn't go overboard with whole eggs.

Actually, you are incorrect here bro. First, the whole eggs arefor the first meal. 2ndly, fats slow the absorption of protein and nutrients. MANY MANY subscribe by the theory of eating fats in the prebed meal.........Mine is 10-20 almonds and a shake, nothing crazy.

 

[Joe Stenson]

Actually, you are incorrect here bro. First, the whole eggs arefor the first meal. 2ndly, fats slow the absorption of protein and nutrients. MANY MANY subscribe by the theory of eating fats in the prebed meal.........Mine is 10-20 almonds and a shake, nothing crazy.

Exactly.

I'm guessing he thinks dietary fat makes you fat .

 

[JKurz1]

Boy - he should know that it's carbs about 6:01pm that makes you fat!!!

 

[chefbone]

I'm not saying dietary fat just simply makes you fat. Me, personally, I won't consume more fat then necessary before bed. I use fat for bodily functions and I don't need fat to sleep well. Why purposely consume fat from eggs when you are preparing for bed? Or maybe I just misunderstood the discussion here, sorry.

 

[Joe Stenson]

I'm not saying dietary fat just simply makes you fat. Me, personally, I won't consume more fat then necessary before bed. I use fat for bodily functions and I don't need fat to sleep well. Why purposely consume fat from eggs when you are preparing for bed? Or maybe I just misunderstood the discussion here, sorry.

Well yes, you did mis-read the post because he's having his eggs for breakfast not before bed.

However, your perception of fat seems to be wrong. At what time of day do you "need" fat by your definition? Fat regulates hormones; it's not like your body just shuts off at night. And JKurz already explained that fat will help slow the digestion of the protein, a definite bonus when you're not going to be eating for a number of hours.

 

[chefbone]

Well yes, you did mis-read the post because he's having his eggs for breakfast not before bed.

However, your perception of fat seems to be wrong. At what time of day do you "need" fat by your definition? Fat regulates hormones; it's not like your body just shuts off at night. And JKurz already explained that fat will help slow the digestion of the protein, a definite bonus when you're not going to be eating for a number of hours.

So are you saying a casein shake before bed is not an adequate amount of fat at .5g of fat per serving?

 

[Joe Stenson]

So are you saying a casein shake before bed is not an adequate amount of fat at .5g of fat per serving?

Do you NEED fat before bed? No

Do you WANT fat before bed? Yes

So clearly a negligible amount of fat like .5g is not optimal. Will it prevent you from making gains though? Obviously not.