I Feel Weak, elbows HURT - i need some help/advice

[Buddy_Christ]

PART 1

last week wasn't shaping up to be too good. i went to do my seated ohp, and while i hit all 5x5, i was struggling big time. only 140lbs, and the week before 135 seemed light. deadlifts that day were rough too, but i think overall i was having a bad day.

i hit the '0 curse' on BB curls. i kind of expected that. oh well.

my squats seemed kind of weak, but i nailed all the sets. they were only 215lbs.

last monday i did my flat bench 190lbs for all 5x5. i pulled it off somehow. my form got a little shaky at the end, but i did it. today, however, i went to 195lbs and failed. first set i hit all 5. second set i only got 4. third and fourth set i got 3. the last set i didn't even get 1, even though i managed to lower it w/out losing control. afterwards, i could barely do my 3 sets of incline db press and i skipped standing cable flies because my chest felt extremely weakened. i was able to do box squats (10x2) and standing calf raises (5x12). i wasn't completely out of juice, but my chest was just fried.

btw - the bench today was a PR. the last time i touched 195lbs was back in late November. i put it up 3x, barely at that, but i did it. a week later i put 200lbs up 3x, barely, but i got it up. i've been on 5x5 for 13 weeks now, so i started out plenty light enough to go this long before stalling.

why would i feel so overly weakened after my bench press today? the past few weeks have been like this with 5x5 exercises. after i'm done, i feel like i can barely complete my isolation exercises. the weight i'm moving for isolation lifts isn't progressing anymore for the most part, and i'm ready to go backwards on some exercises. is this because my 5x5s are just getting THAT heavy that i'm fatiguing myself?

i'm starting to get worried about my progress. i didn't want to see my bench go to 5x3 until AFTER i hit 200lbs. i didn't even want to stall for a week. granted, i still have next week to hit 195lbs and move on. it's just frustrating. what blows my mind is that my close grip bench was 170lbs last week, i hit all 5x5, and i stayed slow and controlled the entire time.

have i just hit the point of overload in 5x5 and that's why i'm struggling so much?

another thing - i've started back on creatine as of last week. i forgot to take it at all over the weekend though. the last time i was taking it, i'd try to drink it about an hour before my workout. i don't know if it had any effect or not, as my workouts were real solid then and continued to be good for a few weeks afterwards.

PART 2

my elbows HURT. big time. i could feel it slightly today during my flat bench. it's on the outside where the tricep connects. on arm day, i'll be practically screaming in pain while doing BB curl. it's been getting progressively worse. i tried to do incline skull crushers this past week as i heard it was easier on the elbows, but it was WORSE and i ended up finishing off my sets on the flat bench. i use the EZ Curl bar for BB curls and skull crushers.

anyway, my elbows are hurting so bad during and after my arm workouts that i'm considering not training them for a week or two so they can relax. my arms seem to be getting a ton of work with all the other stuff anyway. any suggestions here?


ok, i know this is a long ass post, but i wanted to lay it all out before hand to make this a little easier to "diagnose."

thanks.

 

[Dieharder]

looks like you need maybe a week off bro, esp. if you've been going at 5x5 for 13 weeks straight. take a week off, and come back strong man, give those joints some rest.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

It could be overtraining. You may just need some time off is all. Has your weight been increasing? If not, maybe it's your diet. Maybe you need more rest. Maybe your form was off with incline skulls, because depending on where you lower the bar to you end up putting more strain on your elbows. I noticed this, at least.

In any case, your best bet is to probably take a week or two off. Three months on, one to two weeks off. You should get in the habit of that. Whether you're physcially drained after 12 weeks in the future or not, take a week off anyway - for your own health and safety, if nothing else.

 

[chewyxrage]

check your diet as well.

I knowed I stalled for a week or two on the 5x5 untill I started adding more complex carbs in before my workout to ensure I had the strength to get through some barriers.

 

[Dieharder]

id also say that you shouldnt be worrying about your progress, it seems like you've barely stalled for 12 weeks, which is very good. Every 8-10 weeks i have to take a week off, my body feels broken down, and strength starts to slide. Im actually coming off a 9 day lay off, and just started a 5x5 split. If i can gain steadily like you did for 12 weeks, ill be happy as a pig in shit.

 

[d3track]

the diet check is excellent

i would also take a lil break at 13 weeks

 

[supersizeme]

take a year off from training so you can examine every step of your journey and determine where exactly you failed miserably and became a disgrace to everyone who has ever lifted weights.

don't worry about the stall out. it happened to me on 5x5 bench as well. i went up 5lbs weekly from 185 up to 210 and hit every rep, but then 215 came and my sets basically went 5, 4, 3, 2. i stopped 5x5 at that point and changed my routine to a 10, 8,6 scheme.

it's possible you just had one of those days. go back next week and see what your reps look like. however if it's been 3-4 months since you've taken a week off, do so. you've made good gains during 5x5.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

i was thinking about all of this today (before i came home to read everyone's posts) and i noticed that my diet has been slipping slightly. guess i gotta shove more in the mouth. no problem. i'm calorie deficient, and i know why i've been deficient too. i've been taking weight gainers ever since i started 5x5 in order to bump up my calorie intake. 2 weeks ago i started running low and i've been low on cash, so i cut it down to 1/2 serving a day (most days i'd only use 1 serving anyway, split up over the course of a day). i ran out last friday. i just called the store i go to and had them set aside a gainer and whey for me so i can pick it up on thursday.

for 3 months, my post workout shake has been 1/2 serving weight gainer (450 calories), 1 1/2 servings whey, 1 serving raw oatmeal, all that mixed in about 2/3 quart of milk and topped off with water for a full quart. up until 2 weeks ago, breakfast and right before bed i'd drink 1/4 serving weight gainer, 1 serving raw oatmeal, 1 serving whey, 8oz milk, 3 raw eggs, and 8oz milk, all blended. those 3 shakes alone gave me over 2K calories a day and i was trying to get in 3K calories a day minimum. i've cut back on all of this though because we've been short on cash and i just got sick of it. i picked up a banana cream whey and a vanilla gainer a month ago. horrible combo. i'll never touch banana cream ANYTHING again. they set aside a chocolate gainer (900 cal/serving) and a vanilla cake whey for me. that combo i can handle, and i'll be drinking more shakes again.

i don't know what everyone's position on weight gainers is. my reason for using them was the additional calories because eating that much is extremely difficult. i started training in the beginning of september. from then until the beginning of december i got bigger and stronger, but didn't get any heavier. i lost some body fat and replaced the weight with muscle (nothing wrong with that ). mid december to mid january i took it easy and took some time off as well. since mid january, however, i've gained 10lbs. i don't think much of it has gone on as body fat either, and my ABs are starting to show. i do have a little on the sides of my belly, but i can still see about 2" of 2 ribs on either side of my chest and i can feel all of them.

i'm seriously suspecting diet as the culprit now though. breakfast went from being 600+ calories of shake (that was getting hard to stomache) to a double serving of cottage cheese with a serving of applesauce. i usually start eating breakfast 3 hours before i hit the gym, and those high calorie breakfasts had been digested by the time i got in the gym and were ready to be burned off. this lower calorie breakfast is probably burned off by the time i'm done getting changed. i can't eat any closer to my workout time either because i'm sitting in classes.

ok, that's enough about my diet. that's more than likely the culprit here. i'm glad everyone has pointed that out. time to rectify it.


i have a week off planned, unfortunately that week isn't until the first week of May, which is finals week. it's only a few short weeks away, i'm gonna try to tough it out until then, because i have to take that week off regardless. i don't want to take a week off now, be back in the gym for 2 weeks, then take another week off.

i failed 145lb seated ohp today. first set i only got 3 reps, so i just went to 5x3 for it so i could at least finish off the day. that was hard as hell too. 205lb deadlift (4x5 and 1x10) was accomplished today as well, but that was rough. oh well. i nailed it.

thanks for the help everyone. i'm gonna take it easy on my arms for the next 3 weeks. i think i'm going to drop my BB curl weight back 20lbs and keep doing 5x5. i'd rather do that then struggle like hell to do 5x3 or not even hit my sets. i'd still be altering the weight every week, but a cycle backwards should help out and give my elbows a break. i'm going to back off slightly on other lifts on arm day as well. i don't want to stop training them, but i think easing off for a few weeks could help out. like i said, i have a planned week off soon, and after that week, i don't know what my schedule is going to be, so workouts might be screwed up. i think i'd rather tough it out now and go a little lighter just in case i end up being forced into 2 weeks off (and hopefully no more) in May.

 

[Bulldog_10]

If that isn't a classic example of overtraining...i don't know what is! Lethargic and sore joints? Of course you're overtraining!

Check your resting HR...I bet it's a little high. Like the guys said...take a few days off (active recovery).

 

[bran987]

Skull Crushers can be EXTREMELY hard on the elbows for some people.

I would take out the skull crushers and replace them with something else as they are an unnecessary movement.

 

[guldukat]

My good man,

From the sounds of things, diet's not your real problem. It all comes down to the fact that you've been pushing very hard for 11-12 weeks.

I know after I push hard for much more than 6 weeks, I start to drag a little.

I can manage small PR's into weeks 7 and 8, but after that, I'm a zombie. The very idea of lifting, which I usually love, becomes unbearable by the end of week 8 or 9. And PR's? LOL! I fight like a motherfucker to keep from getting weaker by that stage.

Solution? I back off for a couple of weeks and train lighter, and/or take a short lay-off.

Similarly, I think it's your time to take at least 5 days off, preferrably a week. After that, work your way back up over the course of two weeks or so, everything fairly light and snappy.

In the process it's vaguely possible you'll lose a rep here and there when you grab heavy iron again, but the opposite should happen: the much needed rest might have you returning stronger than ever. But even assuming the worst, it'll come back fast and you'll blow by your plateau in short order.

Be gentle to your body today such that you can torture it later bro

 

[Buddy_Christ]

If that isn't a classic example of overtraining...i don't know what is! Lethargic and sore joints? Of course you're overtraining!

Check your resting HR...I bet it's a little high. Like the guys said...take a few days off (active recovery).

lethargic? no. not even close. my energy level is decent all day long even considering i've cut my diet down.

the sore joints? yes, my elbows have been sore. that's the only joint that's been sore, however. as was said, skull crushers can be very hard on elbows, and i think i've experienced that.

i'm not saying that you are wrong on the overtraining, because you might very well be right, but i'm not lethargic and it's only the elbows that are sore.

 

[Lord_Suston]

Re-access the excercises that cause the elbow pain, take 5 days off and sleep as much as possible. Next in the gym take bigger rest times and visualize the weight being easy. Get a partner or freind who will help spot and then eat, no diet just eat untill you feel sick and then eat some more

 

[Buddy_Christ]

i'm thinking dropping all my lifts to 5x3 after this week might be a good idea while i work towards the much needed rest. i'm not denying that i need to take a short break. i was hoping to try to hit some new PRs the last week of April.

i'm going to try to finish this week off hard and strong. i'm going to have to dig into this deeper this weekend. got too much stuff to do the rest of the week with school.

again, thanks to all.

 

[Bulldog_10]

lethargic? no. not even close. my energy level is decent all day long even considering i've cut my diet down.

the sore joints? yes, my elbows have been sore. that's the only joint that's been sore, however. as was said, skull crushers can be very hard on elbows, and i think i've experienced that.

i'm not saying that you are wrong on the overtraining, because you might very well be right, but i'm not lethargic and it's only the elbows that are sore.

Bro...just re-read your first couple of paragraphs...struggling with a weight that seemed light before, deadlifts were rough, overall bad day...shaky form...skipping exercises...not progressing.

Signs of overtraining...maybe lethargy wasn't the best word...but it seems fitting.

 

[mekannik]

Immediate "cure" - Ibuprofen - 2-3 capsules (200mg) x 3 / day with food for a week.

Long term - make sure you have some good oils in your diet for joint lubrication (sounds corny - but it works). Try getting 3-4 tablespoons of flax/olive oil per day. 1-2 grams of Vitamin C per day.

Also look into getting some massage work done to your forearms (are they "locking or freezing up" on you?). Also hit the area above the elbow. My massotherapist worked my lower tricep and got rid of some serious tension around my elbows. If you can't/won't goto to a massotherapist - oil up your arm with baby oil and use a one of the happy massagers from Bath & Body works or any pointy rounded hard object to work over your (fore)arm muscles with. 10 minuted per arm - and be ready to cry like a little girl.


Just remember everything in your body is connected - so in the case of the elbow look at the joint and on either side for possible relief.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

Bro...just re-read your first couple of paragraphs...struggling with a weight that seemed light before, deadlifts were rough, overall bad day...shaky form...skipping exercises...not progressing.

Signs of overtraining...maybe lethargy wasn't the best word...but it seems fitting.

i've been upping all my weights every week on compounds and as needed on isolation lifts. just following the outline of 5x5, which is progressive overload. i know eventually i was bound to stall out. i've stalled on BB curl 3x now. the first 2 times i hit the weight the following week, and this week i'll try to break out of my 3rd stall. with the 5x5 routine this is bound to happen eventually anyway. so i have been progressing for a while now on everything actually. you can only progress so far before you hit a point where you just can't push the weight, at least not immediately. if that were the case that you could progress indefinetly, then we'd all be huge and ungodly strong. unfortunately that's not the case. it seems i'm about to stall on more than one exercise, it's all just hitting me at once.

i skipped one exercise because yes, i was fatigued already. my flat bench tore me up really. took a lot out of me to do what sets and reps i actually did. since i had already worn myself out real good there, doing the incline db bench was hell, as i was already fatigued, but i did it. and actually, i only fell one rep shy of my target at the end.

the shaky form.....when i did sets of 175lbs flat bench a few weeks ago i wasn't sure if i was going to complete all the sets. the next week 180lbs seemed just as hard. 185 the following week, same deal. 190lbs it was substancially harder and felt so damn heavy that it took all i had in me to get it up. and 195lbs (where i failed this week)......i think that was the limit. i'll try it again next week, of course, unless i make a change to the routine over the weekend. but if i follow under the principles of 5x5, i'll either hit the exercise the following week or i'll fail again. if i fail again, then i'll move on to 5x3 for 4 weeks and continue progression. cycle back 20lbs, back to 5x5 again, and should continue on for a few weeks no problem.

but as far as not progressing....there's been a good bit of progress, just seems that i've now hit 2 stalls in one week. take a look at my journal and you'll see where i came from and where i've gotten to. granted, the first few weeks of 5x5 were "easy," as i went light enough to get into this routine for the long haul. everything has gotten real heavy. my BB curl, seated ohp, and close grip bench are PRs every week now. and i'm working them. i think that's progress right there.

also, i should've added about my seated ohp - my back was (And still is) bugging the hell out of me for ohp the past 2 weeks. guess the one disc just isn't enjoying this increased weight. i twisted somehow (i think in the shower) and aggrivated it. it's been pretty much fine for day to day stuff, but when i've sat down for ohp it just hasn't liked it and has complained the entire time. this also could've had a bearing on my bench press, as i did feel it twitching and tingling after one or two sets. oh well, the price i pay i guess.