Hypogonadism-need advice on HCG/enanthate regimen, please!! Thanks.

[wiregrassman]

Hi,

I am a 38 y/o male, and I have hypogonadism, and I currently have been taking either cypionate or enanthate for 8 years for the condition.

My endocrinologist has had me on 400mg(enanthate or cypionate)/every 3weeks with no time off and it has "removed" LOL ;-) my "boys" . I live in a rural area of Alabama and no other doctors know anything about any of this and I can't afford to travel too far, but I'd like to be able to still have children if it isn't too late with the way I've been prescribed the testosterone IM's for so long.

I need advice as too an HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - /enanthat regimen, hopefully to restore my "boys", and remain fertile, ;-)

Someone told me and I may have this a little of to take 50mg of enanthate for three days then I think 2000IU of HCG for 2 days, and then start over with no need to stop or cycle. I do want to take my injections more often than every 3 weeks for the enanthate, as the effect wears off, and I only want my levels normal, not to bodybuild, and I need to know how and how much to add HCG to the equivalent of 400mg enanthate/3weeks, and if I need to cycle at all or will the above regimen I was told work, or would the testosterone be way more than equivalent to 400mg enanthate/3weeks.

Basically, any suggestions on how to take these two together to stay fertile if not too late, but even so I'd like to add the HCG anyway because of shrinkage and have my sack drop back, ;-) , and at what doses/regimen just to have normal levels for my hypogonadism not to bodybuild? And my family doc will prescribe the HCG, he just doesn't know how to use it with the enanthate, and my endocrinologist is an idiot!! However, my family doc is retiring in about 6 months as he is 78 y/o, so is it normal for docs to prescribe HCG, or would I have to get it somewhere without a Rx once my family doc retires.

Sorry so long a story, any suggestions would be great, and my insurance probably won't cover HCG, so is it real expensive? And lastly, I'm adult HGH deficient also I'm sure(all these probably caused by a pituitary problem, but my endo want do a Stim test, and the IGF-1 I have read will miss most all cases of low HGH), but you have to have an insulin stim test to be positive for my insurance to cover Genotropin or the other brands, and I can't afford it at ALL, so do any of the sublingual sprays really work, I used HGH Velvet from a company for about a year, and everybody asked if I was working out(which I wasn't) and I felt great, but I don't know if it was a placebo effect or what, as most things I see say the sprays or anything but the injections, don't work.

Thanks so much for any help!!
Jim Pinkerton

 

[thelion2005]

Your situation seems way beyond even the best of advice you'd find here. My reaction is that you need to invest in a thorough exam and recovery plan using the best University teaching hospital you can travel to. Dinking around with self help won't do and wanting children means you are ready to get serious.

I'll bet you can find this using Google and writing to Department Heads.

 

[wiregrassman]

Your situation seems way beyond even the best of advice you'd find here. My reaction is that you need to invest in a thorough exam and recovery plan using the best University teaching hospital you can travel to. Dinking around with self help won't do and wanting children means you are ready to get serious.

I'll bet you can find this using Google and writing to Department Heads.

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time for the suggestions and advice. I have gone to UAB University Hospital/Kirklin Clinic, which is one of the best teaching and specialty clinics for pretty much every type of specialist in the South, in Birmingham, AL, and saw an endo doc there, but it seems, and I saw this in a medical journal on lyme disease for infectious disease docs, that most endocrinologist are practicing their specialty at least 20 years behind the last 20 years of the current research, and it's even published in the "Journal of Clinical Endocrinology", their main professional publication!!!

My problem with hypothyroid is functional and I don't convert T4 to T3 correctly, which is in every journal I've read and called "functional hypothyroidism"(I was a pharmacy student for 2 years, but it was 20 years ago, so I read a lot of this stuff still ;-), but just now on HCG really. But the "specialist" said that the conversion disorder didn't even exist, and when I showed him the "journal" I brought with me with two articles about it, and needing a combination of Synthroid and Cytomel or Armour Natural Thyroid to treat it, instead of just Synthroid T4 only like most all docs use exclusively, it just bruised his ego and ticked him off, so I wasn't about to mention the whole anabolic deficiency. But, I have had lab workups on all my hormones done a multitude of times in 8 years, and if I'm not supplementing, they always show up low for my age--testosterone, DHEA, pregnenelone, thyroid, and if they would do a Stim test I know the HGH would be low too , since the journal said, and it is the official endocrinology medical journal, that if you have at least two or three hypopituitary/hypothalamus controlled low hormone levels, that you almost certainly have low HGH, because it is the first one to be effected and then the others follow.

And it said that an IGF-1 level blood test would miss it most(estimated by some at up to 80%) of the time, unless you were just flat NO HGH and not just low to medium low for your age range, but the stim test were so expensive that insurance would rarely pay for you to have one and then require you to have a positive one before they will pay for supplementation, and they won't pay for the stim test unless you have a low IGF-1 blood test, so A LOT of people are not receiving treatment that need it, and not just for anti-aging but for normal levels for their age, whatever age it may be. So, that's a real Catch-22 for me and a real money saver for insurance of course!! But the endo I ticked off with the journal info, wouldn't even look at my labwork I had done before driving the nearly six hours after I proved him wrong, not that I know everything by all means, but it's right there in black and white in their professional journal; they just never have time to keep up with all the new research since it moves so fast like technology does the last 20 years or so.

But I can't afford an anti-aging clinic, and can't find a progressive up to date endocrinologist near me at all, except in Gainesville, FL at UF School of Medicine, and I can't afford to travel that far. But I have spoke with him on the phone, and he says I am correct about the journal info, but he'd have to see me for HCG, as it is kind of more complicated dosing wise.

But again thanks for the advice.....I really appreciate it!!!

 

[Harry78]

Hi,

I sympathize with the problems you are having. I had to see several endocrinologists (with ego inversely proportional to brain size), before finding some knowledgeable ones.

Anyway, I suggest looking up a guide written by Dr John Crisler, titled "TRT: A Recipe for Success". He suggests that a dose of 150 IU of HCG every other day yields sufficient results. (More than that causes the testicles to become desensitized to HCG and LH.)

I would also try to find a decent endocrinologist. I personally gave up on local doctors and ended up consulting experts out of state and even Europe, by phone or travel. I know that Dr John Crisler (Lansing, MI) or Dr Alan Jacobs (New York, NY) are knowledgeable in both thyroid disorders and hypogonadism and they do phone consultations, and you could probably find more doctors and lots of advice at the propeciahelp website.

 

[Zyglamail]

(More than that causes the testicles to become desensitized to HCG and LH.)

According to who? I dont think ive ever seen Crisler claim any more than 150IU will cause desensitization. As a matter of fact, the very Crisler article you reference states 150IU EVERY DAY......AS A STARTING DOSE. That same paper he says he views a "high dose" of HCG to be >500IU.

Other papers by Crisler also state based on a single weekly dose of enth or cyp the client should take 250IU 2 days prior to weekly injection and then 250IU 1 day prior to weekly injection.

Ive seen many studies that show 250IU 3 days a week brings serum test levels up to normal range so I think at the end of the day one could surmise moderate doses are plenty used sparingly throughout the week. The exact dose for an individuals situation likely will vary from person to person but at the end of the day the small variations likely wont matter too much when dealing with low doses of HCG.