HST Routine - Please Critique

[cmdubs]

This will be my second go with HST. I was impressed with it the first time around. Only gained a few pounds but my bodyfat stayed the same. I won't be using the usual 3x/week full body routine. I felt 1 day between workouts wasn't enough for recovery when I got to the heavy stuff. Here it is:

Monday/Thursday

Back Squats - 2 sets
Front Squats - 2 sets
Leg Curl - 1 set
BB Row - 2 sets
Chins - 2 sets
BB Curl - 1 set
Calf Raises - 2 sets

Tuesday/Friday

Incline DB Press - 2 sets
Flat Bench Press - 2 sets
Standing Military - 2 sets
Close-Grip Bench - 2 sets
Side Laterals - 1 set
Pushdowns - 1 set
Weighted Crunches (needsize style) - 2 sets

I'll be using rep blocks of 12, 8, and 6. This routine isn't set in stone, so please make as many suggestions as possible.

 

[majutsu]

This is all very interesting . . . .

I would be curious to see what casualbb has to say.

 

[casualbb]

Looks alright.

The 3x/week thing is pretty important. From the looks of your routine you like high volume, yes? That could have been the problem when you felt like you weren't recovering enough.

Even so, if you're set on doing it this way 2x/week should still give you decent results.

My one other comment is that doing both front and back squats seems a little redundant... i'd swap one out for some kind of deadlift (I prefer RDL)

 

[Tom Treutlein]

How many pounds did you gain?

 

[cmdubs]

Casual - Do you think I would be better off cutting the volume down and working out 3x/week? I guess the volume was high the last time I tried the program, i.e., 4 sets for chest, 3 for back. Maybe too much? I started out with lower volume but I had zero soreness so I bumped it up some.

 

[cmdubs]

How many pounds did you gain?

4 pounds and my abs look sharper now than they did before

 

[cmdubs]

4 pounds and my abs look sharper now than they did before

arms went up 1/2 inch, chest 3/4 inch, legs 1 inch

 

[casualbb]

Casual - Do you think I would be better off cutting the volume down and working out 3x/week? I guess the volume was high the last time I tried the program, i.e., 4 sets for chest, 3 for back. Maybe too much? I started out with lower volume but I had zero soreness so I bumped it up some.

That's actually about what I do in terms of volume. I don't have issues with it.

I'd try doing that again, but maybe dropping 1 set when you hit the heavy part.

Congrats, it sounds like the program was very effective for you.

 

[cmdubs]

That's actually about what I do in terms of volume. I don't have issues with it.

I'd try doing that again, but maybe dropping 1 set when you hit the heavy part.

Congrats, it sounds like the program was very effective for you.

Sounds good. I'll cut back the volume some if I feel I'm not recovering fast enough.

Thanks for your help bro.

 

[guldukat]

Casual - Do you think I would be better off cutting the volume down and working out 3x/week? I guess the volume was high the last time I tried the program, i.e., 4 sets for chest, 3 for back. Maybe too much? I started out with lower volume but I had zero soreness so I bumped it up some.

I'm not Casual (obviously ), but let me offer my two cents.

Earlier, you noted that "1 day between workouts wasn't enough for recovery when [you] got to the heavy stuff." If that's the case, how would you recover better by training four days a week instead of three?

I understand you'd be training each bodypart less frequently with a 2 on, 1 off split, but if recovery's a problem, I see that as robbing Peter to pay Paul: each bodypart would have more time between workouts, so "localized recovery" seems satisfied; however, with a higher frequency you're still doing the same amount if not more work overall, a burden to "systematic recovery."

IOW, it comes down to understanding how the body deals with stress. Local recovery doesn't really make sense...that'd only work if we could detach a muscle and hang it on the wall It's more productive to look at the body as one unit, and any training as stress the unit must cope with.

So, I think the safest bet is to try and keep 3 full-body workouts a week, just drop some volume. I know with fewer sets you don't get sore, but I've never heard any proof that soreness precedes growth. (The two sometimes coincide, but that doesn't indicate a causal relationship.)

Further, not getting sore could actually be seen as a plus--the beauty of HST being, of course, gradual progression over time, not "total annihilation"-type sessions. The longer you can avoid soreness, the longer presumably you could keep lowering the rep bracket/adding weight.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I've noticed everyone who's used HST either stayed the same, or lost some bodyfat, while gaining muscle. I think the diet HST recommends is more than enough for putting on quality size without mass. Bodyweight times 16 in calories, and only 1g/lb-BW in protein. I guess any more than that puts you over the mark, and you store more fat than you want.

How much do you weigh, and did you weigh in the beginning man? How much did you eat in way of calories and macronutrients? Did you do any type of light cardio on off days? Give more details, if you will.

 

[cmdubs]

Guldukat - Thanks for your advice. That does make sense. When I think of "recovery" I guess I should think of the body as a whole and not each bodypart as I was suggesting earlier. I have a hard time putting on weight anyway, so adding another training session would just burn more calories and probably cut into my recovery as you said.

 

[cmdubs]

Tom - To be honest I don't pay much attention to macro's. I made sure and ate 200+ grams of protein a day. Lots of carbs in the morning, tapering down as the day goes on, with minimal fat. I weighed 189 when I started and am around 194-195 now. I did zero cardio since I'm an ectomorph and have a hard enough time putting on weight without it.

I got some strength out of the program too. My max DB incline press for 5 when I started was 85 (which I barely pulled off). Last night I did 2 sets of 6 with the 85's and probably had another set left in me. My squat went up 15 pounds, bench went up 10. Nothing spectacular, but since my goal wasn't strength I wasn't really concerned.

I was happiest about my arms since they have always been very stubborn.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Ahh, so you're an ectomorph. That could be part of the reason you gained 4-6 lbs. whereas some gain up to 9 lbs. Nice, though.

 

[majutsu]

Real nice, good job and good story!

 

[c3bodybuilding]

Your original routine looked fine. When I did hst, I stuck to it as it was meant to be done. It always works wonders for me (I'm back to full body 3x a week right now, and I'm gaining like never before). I think your problem wasn't the volume, but nutrition. If you want to grow, you need to up that protein a little more. a little over 200 grams, when you are 190lbs isn't going to do much for you. Up it to 250-300 this time around, and I think you will see a big difference.

If I remember correctly, the HST site has an excellent section on eating to grow, maybe check that out. Good luck, and happy growning!

 

[Tom Treutlein]

The HST section for eating to grow suggests only one gram per pound of bodyweight. Therefore, I don't think it's protein that was his problem. If anything, overall calories in general, considering he's an ectomorph.

 

[cmdubs]

The HST section for eating to grow suggests only one gram per pound of bodyweight. Therefore, I don't think it's protein that was his problem. If anything, overall calories in general, considering he's an ectomorph.

I agree with this. I know my total calories were not high enough. I literally have to force feed myself to gain weight. Of course, more protein = more total calories, and I'd rather add extra protein to stay as lean as possible.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

True, true, though make sure you have enough water because otherwise you can intoxicate yourself with the ammonia that's produced and processed along with the protein.

Something along those lines, at least, is what a friend of mine who's in an anatomy class had said. If you don't have enough water to mix with the proteins to form amino acids, you can end up with a lot of excess ammonia in your system that can be very harmful...

No worries though.
Eat some good fats, you'll stay rather lean.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

On my second time through the HST program,..liked it so much the first time. Tonights the last night of our 15's, which wind the shiat out of us but heh, love the pump!! This is what our program looks like; ____ are for our 15, 10 & 5 rep cycle. Lot of work but lovin the results. Already added another pound and only on our last day of 15's.
Would like to here Casual's thoughts on our program as well.


SQUATS
1 X ___

DEADS
2 X ___

INCLINE BENCH
With Dumbells
2 X ___

DIPS
2 X ___

PEC DEC ( I know most dont like them, but we love em')
1 X ___

CHINS
Wide Grip
1 X ___

CHINS
Narrow Grip
1 X ___

ROWS
Wide Grip
1 X ___

ROWS
Narrow Grip
1 X ___

SHRUGS
1 X ___

SHOULDER PRESS
1 X ___


LATERAL RAISE
1 X ___

REAR DELT RAISE
1 X ___

DB SEATED CURLS
Incline Bench
2 X ___

TRI ROPE PUSHDOWNS
2 X ___

TRI DIPS
2 X ___

CALF RAISES
2 X 15

WEIGHTED AB CRUNCHES
2 X 25

WEIGHTED AB KNEE – UPS
2 X 25

ROMAN CHAIR MEDICINE BALL TOSS (killer on the obliques)
2 X 15

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Johnny, did you notice more weight gain during the 15's, 10's or 5's portion of the program? If I remember correct, you ate between 3200-3300 calories, weighed in at 200 and finished at 209 with a 2" loss on the waist. Remarkable results from the program. One of the main reasons I really considered it.

Only a pound in 2 weeks...kind of low. I'm guessing there was no bodyfat gain though. How about the measurements? Did you notice and change in those?

 

[JohnnyCoho]

T.T. Haven't taken measurements yet,..were gonna do that at the end of each cycle. Tonight after 15's we'll be taking them. Body fat continues to drop though. After age 30 I the love Karma attacked the gut big time; now at age 35 it doesnt take much to put on weight (fat), now that it seems the metabolism has slowed down. So I really do watch what I eat. 210 now at around 13% body fat and dropping. Saw most of my gains at the end of my 10's and in my 5's during the last HST cycle not in the 15's, so I'm pretty happy with a pound right now.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Sounds good, my friend. Let me know what the measurements say tonight!