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How to kill adipocytes??????

bigrand

New member
For those who dont know, when you gain weight over a period of time, fat vacuoles fill and when they are full, the cell divides giving you more fat cells. When you end up dieting and doing cardio and loosing weight, the fat in the vacuoles is burned, but you are left with more fat cells total than you had when you were getting fat. Thats a problem. I dropped from 6 foot 250 (no lifting so it was all fat) down to 230, MUCH more muscle, looking at a total of about maybe 80lbs of fat lost. The problem is that you cant really burn off the extra fat cells i have now, to its easy to gain fat back and it looks like shit cux there is a lot of extra tissue just waiting to get refilled.
Lipo is too expensive (but a proven way to permanently remove fat cells)
So i was wondering if there are ways to kill fat cells, induce apoptosis or whatever. Ive HEARD that PGF2a will actually kill white adipocyctes......
Any ideas? Macro, anyone?
 
^ I have wondered about this myself for quite some time, would be nice if there was a sloution other than lipo
 
bigrand said:
For those who dont know, when you gain weight over a period of time, fat vacuoles fill and when they are full, the cell divides giving you more fat cells. When you end up dieting and doing cardio and loosing weight, the fat in the vacuoles is burned, but you are left with more fat cells total than you had when you were getting fat. Thats a problem. I dropped from 6 foot 250 (no lifting so it was all fat) down to 230, MUCH more muscle, looking at a total of about maybe 80lbs of fat lost. The problem is that you cant really burn off the extra fat cells i have now, to its easy to gain fat back and it looks like shit cux there is a lot of extra tissue just waiting to get refilled.
Lipo is too expensive (but a proven way to permanently remove fat cells)
So i was wondering if there are ways to kill fat cells, induce apoptosis or whatever. Ive HEARD that PGF2a will actually kill white adipocyctes......
Any ideas? Macro, anyone?

enlighten me on what PGF2a is bro?
 
bigrand said:
For those who dont know, when you gain weight over a period of time, fat vacuoles fill and when they are full, the cell divides giving you more fat cells.

I think this is incorrect. I think (I mean I could be wrong) you have a finite amount and they either expand or contract. I think only women gain fat cells during pregnancy.
 
WannaBeBig72 said:
I think this is incorrect. I think (I mean I could be wrong) you have a finite amount and they either expand or contract. I think only women gain fat cells during pregnancy.


Let me give you a couple of deep researched articles:

(First, this is how you can kill them and stop multiplying):

Prins' group has progressed since it reported the discovery of FGF-1 recently in the journal Diabetes.

Laboratory experiments have shown drugs that interfere with FGF-1 stop human fat cells multiplying. And the group is now trialling several drugs to block FGF-1 action in animal studies.

Some drugs that showed potential in the test tube are currently used to treat cancer, he says, because they stop the growth of new blood vessels that feed tumours.

Fat cells divide and conquer
Prins' story began 10 years ago with the discovery that fat cells, like other cells in human tissue, were capable of programmed cell death, or apoptosis, and regeneration.

He says it was possible to isolate immature cells, or fibroblasts known as pre-adipocytes from adipose tissue, or fat.



SECONDLY: (How Leptin signals to the brain to tell us that the FAT CELLS Are Full)
A new understanding into how these cells function is emerging. It seems that we truly are what we eat. Fat cells are the newest organ. Collectively, these cells communicate, interact and perform a unique function. It is now accepted that fat cells can multiply if extra fat storage is required.

The foods we eat are broken down into components and the fat is stored in fat cells. It is constantly being metabolized and released into the blood stream as fatty acids. Fat cells also secrete numerous messengers.

Leptin is produced to signal the brain that the cell is full. The brain then turns off food cravings. Chronic overeating can desensitize this process. Fat cells also produce Resistin which can contribute to insulin resistance and diabetes. Other substances such as Adiponectin can result in beneficial anti-inflammatory effects. Fat cells also make other unique substances such as Tumor Necrosis Factor and Angiotensinogen. All of these seem to interact to maintain our body weight. It is a remarkably efficient system. This system has the ability to regulate and maintain our weight to within a few ounces. Altering the sensitivity of this system by as little as two percent is enough to result in obesity within five year, but it can be altered in a positive direction with regular exercise.



Fat Storage on the Human Body

The majority of stored fat on the human body is present under the skin, or as subcutaneous body fat. This fat tissue is made up of fat cells. A human can have anywhere between 50 – 200 billion fat cells distributed around the body. We also store fat in other areas around the body but this is dependent on the sex of the person. For most females a high percentage of the subcutaneous adipose (fat) tissue surrounds the areas of the breasts, waist, hips and buttocks. Most males have a high percentage of their subcutaneous fat distributed around the chest, abdomen and buttocks regions. There is also fat storage around the kidneys, liver and even inside muscle. In fact as we age fat storage within muscle tends to increase and means we don’t notice an increase in this area like we do when it’s placed around the waist. If activity levels drop its possible that muscle shrinks and fat replaces it, the result is we lose strength with age but muscle volume increases because fat is less dense than muscle and thus occupies more space.

How fat is stored
The sole purpose of a fat cell is to store small droplets of fat molecules. These fat molecules are formed as the concentrations of fatty acids in the blood rises, such as after a big meal. An increase in concentrations within the blood triggers lipase enzymes located in fat tissue, to grab the fatty acids and convert them into a fat molecule (triacylglycerols) for storage.

In fact as we gain weight and become fatter the fat cells do not multiply, rather they just store more fat molecules thus they expand to become larger. Fat cells in the human can multiply but only if fat storage cells “run out”. Read more about fat cell numbers here!

How fat is used
When the body uses stored fat for energy it breaks down the contents of the fat cell via enzymes to release glycerol and fatty acids into the blood. As the circulating fatty acids reach muscle cells that require extra energy they are transported across the membrane and into the muscle cell where the fatty acid enters the mitochondria of the cell. Mitochondria are the powerhouse of a cell; they extract energy from fat and carbohydrates to produce the cell’s usable form of energy - ATP.

Another Study here:
Well what we have done in our laboratory here in Brisbane and also in Cambridge in the UK, was we've demonstrated that human fat cells have the ability to die in simple terms. So individual cells can die at any stage of life, and probably do so all the time, and the fat cells in our body are in a state of turnover, much as our muscle cells are and our liver cells are, and so at any stage of life, we have the ability to either create new fat cells if we're in a state of having more energy into the body than is leaving the body, so if we eat more than we require; but equally we have the potential to lose fat cells in the reverse situation



This article is from EAS (don't see evidence but BIG CLAIMS)-

As for CLA, its powerful nutrient partitioning effects (its ability to direct consumed calories preferentially towards muscle and away from fat) have been demonstrated in a variety of studies. CLA has also been shown to increase the feelings and fullness and satiety in people coming off a low calorie diet, thus decrease the amount of food they eat.

Additionally, CLA may even possess apoptotic characteristics where fat cells are concerned. More simply put, it tends to kill fat cells.
I think using a product that combines these two items in decent dosages could be very helpful in your quest to quell the return of the love handles.


Another article here: http://www.afosr.af.mil/pdfs/AprMayJun04RH.pdf

(I DON'T KNOW FELLAS, SOME RESEARCH SAYS THAT WE DON'T MULTIPLY FAT CELLS AFTER PUBERTY; SOME RESEARCH SAYS THAT ONLY WOMEN HAVE FAT CELLS THAT MULTIPLY; AND A LOT OF RESEARCH SAYS THE ABOVE (THAT WE DO INDEED MULTIPLY FAT CELLS, JUST LIKE MUSCLE CELLS, ETC..)
 
No, you wont have more fat cells
They only muliply from birth to about 4 years old, the number of fat cells depends on:
a. genetics
b. diet taken when 4- years old
Not a big deal, since fat cells can increase their size 20 times!, therefore an individual with more fat cells may be leaner than one with less fat cells.

big_boy_1
 
big_boy_1 said:
No, you wont have more fat cells
They only muliply from birth to about 4 years old, the number of fat cells depends on:
a. genetics
b. diet taken when 4- years old
Not a big deal, since fat cells can increase their size 20 times!, therefore an individual with more fat cells may be leaner than one with less fat cells.

big_boy_1


No offense bro, but I just did a ton of research as this site kind of shocked me a little, and I saw tons of different research answers----(as you see in the very bottom of my post above---a few studies said similar to what you said but stated up to puberty----a few other studies said only in women it can happen----and then the majority said ABSOLUTELY--you have so many cells and they only get so big and then they will multiply---(How else can someone get to be 800pounds!!!!)
 
There are hypertrophic and hyperplastic changes when one becomes obese, not just hypertrophic, these cells divide when there is no more vacuole space to accomodate cals taken in. Consulting my biochemistry review that is.......
 
Like anyother cell, DNA or cellular damage will lead to apoptosis. Other factors may influence (hormones or other chemicals) which is what im looking for here. Elevations of certain chemicals may lead to a greater loss of cells and less reproduction.
I will consult my biochem prof in a few days to see what he thinks.
 
Non-Surgical Ultrasound Fat Removal
I've been hearing about this for a while now... Ultrasonic Fat Removal that passes through your body naturally. They currently have a similar process where they combine it with liposuction... but they are doing test right now to do it on its own.... more to follow..
 
Here is a press release about it... "Ultrashape is developing a non-invasive alternative to liposuction, the most commonly performed cosmetic procedure that was carried out 675,000 times last year in the United States alone. In contrast to invasive surgical procedures in which unwanted fat is physically extracted, Ultrashape's transdermal application of ultrasonic energy causes the targeted rupture of fat cells. Residual fat tissue is cleared from the body through natural processes, resulting in a safe outpatient procedure to replace liposuction, which must be performed under general anesthesia in the United States, and carries the risks and potential complications associated with surgery.

"The inherent safety of our method lies in the fact that we actually only do half the traditional job compared to liposuction, and let nature do the rest," said Yoram Eshel, co-founder and Managing Director of Ultrashape. "Physiological clearance of lysed fat tissue occurs over a period of about three weeks following the procedure, similar to the way the body clears out damaged tissue found in a bruise," Eshel said.

Ultrashape's solution consists of an ultrasonic transducer, developed in house, which targets and destroys fat cells without the risk of thermal damage, a potential hazard associated with some forms of liposuction. The transducer provides dual functionality, also serving as an ultrasonic guidance system that works in conjunction with an accompanying video imaging system, enabling precise localization of treatment. "We have developed a guidance system that dramatically reduces the potential for human error during the treatment, and is in sharp contrast to liposuction, which is sight and touch-guided," Eshel said. "In addition, it will be possible for a physician to start the procedure, establish the boundaries of the treatment area, and turn the bulk of the actual procedure over to a technician, much in the same way the hair removal treatments are performed today."

Ultrashape has demonstrated proof of concept of its system in porcine models, and is in the final stages of development of a prototype that will be used to demonstrate fat-lysing capability in tissue from cadavers, and which the company plans to use in initial clinical trials beginning in early 2002. The company says its device will lyse 500 cc of fat tissue per treatment, or about one-fourth of the quantity of tissue that is normally removed in a single liposuction operation. As a result, the Ultrashape procedure won't provide results that are as immediate as those possible with liposuction, since about a month must pass before each additional procedure can be performed. However, Eshel maintained that the company's technology would enable much smaller, controlled amounts of fat to be removed than with current procedures. " http://www.ultrashape.com/ee.html
 
Here is the one where they combine the two, Lipo and Ultrasound "Ultrasonic liposuction may have a number of advantages over traditional liposuction. The most significant is that the operation can be used to remove large volumes of fat. Traditional liposuction is used for sculpturing smaller volumes. During traditional liposuction the small blood vessels in the fat are torn and therefore blood loss can be significant In ultrasonic liposuction there is less capillary tearing and therefore much less blood loss. Some reports suggest 30-50% less blood loss.

In traditional liposuction the skin contracts very little. Ultrasonic liposuction may cause skin contraction and retraction especially in areas like the neck.

In the early stages and with the two stage method of ultrasonic liposuction the process may take longer. It is expected that as surgeons become more experienced and the equipment better it will take less time. Some studies also suggest that with ultrasonic liposuction there is less pain and discomfort. The ability to refine shape and sculpt is better with ultrasonic liposuction and it is much less strenuous for the surgeon."
www.phudson.com/UAL/FAQ/differlipo.html
 
"UltraShape has already conducted clinical trials on hundreds of women in the US, Japan, and Britain. The company, which has 34 employees, believes that the money it has raised will last until the end of 2005. Meanwhile, UltraShape hopes to obtain European CE Mark certification in the second quarter of 2005, and US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval in the fourth quarter of that year. " ultrashape.com/e1.html
 
Try doing a search for threads a couple of years ago using both Ranger and Big Brother Val as cross references. There is a lot of info in the archives on this stuff, hopefully it is still available using a search.

I think SofaGeorge might have some info under his name as well.

Some sites have write ups on it as well.

If you can handle the shits, then knock yourself out. Some users reported minimal sides using very small dosages.

BMJ
 
I talked to Ranger about it a little a few years ago when he was rubbing the shit on his chest before hitting his pecs. To my knowledge, nobody said for sure if it killed adipocytes.
 
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