How much do steroids enhance athletic performance ?

[clubelite]

It's extremely interesting that these slew of injuries among stars came at the EXACT same-time steroids actually became rampant in baseball.

If you read what I said, it makes perfect sense. Because of steroids making these guys bigger, stronger, and much faster, they are more susceptible to injury, plain and simple.

 

[gpten]

If you read what I said, it makes perfect sense. Because of steroids making these guys bigger, stronger, and much faster, they are more susceptible to injury, plain and simple.

so the recovering faster from injuries aspect of steroids is a red herring ?

 

[gpten]

Here's the article on admitted steroid user tom house - http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2005-05-03-steroids-house_x.htm?csp=34


House said he gained almost 30 pounds while using steroids, blaming the extra weight for contributing to knee problems. He said the drugs helped improve recovery time and conditioning but did not add velocity to his fastball.

And I'm assuming the recovery time he's speaking of is workouts, right ?

 

[clubelite]

Actually, there have been studies done by historians that debunks the myth that today's pitchers throw harder.

http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=37240

http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=20992

And yes, I know there was steroids used in the 60's. There was a pitcher who admitted to using them.

That debunks NOTHING. Besides the fact that the story is most likely inaccurate, there is a difference between a couple guys throwing that fast and the league standard to be throwing that fast. If you think the average fast ball has not increased in speed over the years, you're crazy. The availability of more pitching coaches has also changed the game to an extent.

None of this can be proven with legitimate evidence. Generating fasterbat speed does not mean better homerun power - It means a quicker swing. You can wait on a pitch longer. Using a corked bat can do this for a hitter too - Though, it doesn't make them hit homeruns further.

Explain to me how someone who weighs the same, using the same bat, hitting the ball on the same location, but faster will not hit the ball further than if they hit it at a slower speed. You are completely wrong and your physics is way off. More force, because of the increased speed (and most likely increased mass) will make the ball go further.

And I never said bodybuilders, sprinters, etc, had no flexbility - Your putting words in my mouth, and insulting me with pety jokes while doing it.

I didn't say you did, so don't jump to conclusion. What you did say was that steroids hard flexibility, which must not be to any significant degree judging by the fact that the athletes mentioned need MORE flexibility than baseball players and are well known for steroid and other drug use.

Again, there's no evidence that pitchers today throw harder than pitchers of yesteryear. None whatsoever. And you keep saying im " digging myself in a deeper hole " when you have yet to provide legit evidence that any of your claims are true. You've basically attacked me, while I'm trying my best to remain civil.

Actually, you took a couple outliers (where the evidence is very vague and probably not accurate) to try to give an example of all of major league baseball. If I say people over the last few hundred years have gotten taller and larger, but you give a couple examples of large people from back in the day, that does not change the fact that the average man has gotten larger. Extreme example, but hopefully you see the point.

 

[gpten]

That debunks NOTHING. Besides the fact that the story is most likely inaccurate, there is a difference between a couple guys throwing that fast and the league standard to be throwing that fast. If you think the average fast ball has not increased in speed over the years, you're crazy. The availability of more pitching coaches has also changed the game to an extent

No proof of this. It does debunk your arguement, you haven't given me legit evidence that proves today's pitchers throw ' harder " than before. None whatsoever.

I guess we have different ways of arriving at " the truth ".


Explain to me how someone who weighs the same, using the same bat, hitting the ball on the same location, but faster will not hit the ball further than if they hit it at a slower speed. You are completely wrong and your physics is way off. More force, because of the increased speed (and most likely increased mass) will make the ball go further.

Again, I never said steroids don't make the ball go further - The added strength would turn warning track flyballs into HR's, and maybe some velocity on a pitchers fastball. But again, there's no legit evidence that steroids would increase batspeed, None at all. Again, batspeed has to do with how long you wait on the pitch, contact, not homerun power. Corked bats are ligher for a reason - They can increase batspeed. And they help you hit better, but do NOT help you hit homeruns further.




I didn't say you did, so don't jump to conclusion. What you did say was that steroids hard flexibility, which must not be to any significant degree judging by the fact that the athletes mentioned need MORE flexibility than baseball players and are well known for steroid and other drug use.

Sure you did, you've been attacking my this whole thread, claiming im wrong, without providing a shred of evidence to back up your claims.

And actually, I started this same thread on another forum, and recieved different responses disagreeing with your claims - There's no reason for me to take any of your opinions as gospel.




Actually, you took a couple outliers (where the evidence is very vague and probably not accurate) to try to give an example of all of major league baseball. If I say people over the last few hundred years have gotten taller and larger, but you give a couple examples of large people from back in the day, that does not change the fact that the average man has gotten larger. Extreme example, but hopefully you see the point.


if everything you state is true, prove it to me. link me some articles that provide legit evidence to back up your claims. Shoe me evidence that today's pitchers throw with more velocity than pitchers of yesteryear. I already provided two of many links on research dont by baseball historians that prove that myth to be false.

 

[gpten]

Anyway, I'll be back in a few hours. Since you'll probably spend the next few hours on the net doing whatever, try and find me evidence to back up your claims, and prove me wrong.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

What's the steroid or muscle that enhances hand-eye coordination?

coordinabolin
dexteravar

 

[BigCracker]

So Barry Bonds isn't natural?

 

[clubelite]

No proof of this. It does debunk your arguement, you haven't given me legit evidence that proves today's pitchers throw ' harder " than before. None whatsoever.

The burden of proof is on you, as you are trying to debunk a myth as you say, which has not been provided.

Again, I never said steroids don't make the ball go further - The added strength would turn warning track flyballs into HR's, and maybe some velocity on a pitchers fastball. But again, there's no legit evidence that steroids would increase batspeed, None at all. Again, batspeed has to do with how long you wait on the pitch, contact, not homerun power. Corked bats are ligher for a reason - They can increase batspeed. And they help you hit better, but do NOT help you hit homeruns further.

Take high school physics over again. Tell me how faster bat speed will not make a ball go further. f=ma buddy.

Sure you did, you've been attacking my this whole thread, claiming im wrong, without providing a shred of evidence to back up your claims.

You provide illegitimate and/or false evidence and expect me to provide more evidence to refute your's? This is a message board and in reality, I could care less whether or not you believe that I am right--the fact is I am and you are wrong. The matter of you believing that or not is another subject altogether.

And actually, I started this same thread on another forum, and recieved different responses disagreeing with your claims - There's no reason for me to take any of your opinions as gospel.

There are idiots in large numbers. Kind of like the idea that steroids will cause you to lose flexibility.

if everything you state is true, prove it to me. link me some articles that provide legit evidence to back up your claims. Shoe me evidence that today's pitchers throw with more velocity than pitchers of yesteryear. I already provided two of many links on research dont by baseball historians that prove that myth to be false.

Actually, you provided a message board thread as your main evidence--hardly reputable baseball historians. Again, I don't really care if you believe me or not and I'm not going to spend the time to get the sources to prove you wrong, but you are. There is no point in going beyond the obvious that there IS a significant increase in offensive numbers at the very elite (ie Bonds) level over the last decade or so. If you believe pitchers back in the day were throwing as fast, on average, as the guys now, then believe that. I hope you understand how dumb you sound though.

 

[Cauliflower Ear]

I think you guys should just fight to the death and settle it