How much do steroids enhance athletic performance ?

[gpten]

How can you really say that? If the pitchers use steroids for example (or the stadiums get bigger or whatever), would that not have an effect on the batters?

Read this article -
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4845

If you say something about fast-twitch muscle fibers again I might choke. AAS cannot increase the number of muscle cells you have in the first place, but they can increase the size. This though is a matter of training. In reality, ANY type of training will cause fibers to take on endurance characteristics (which is why some of the highest % of fast twitch is seen in couch potatoes!), so training for the quality you want (whether it be strength/speed/etc.) is what would need to be done, not aiming at a specific fiber type. 90 vs 95mph? Get real man.

I was questioning it because bulking up isn't necessarily going to benefit some to a great degree - Now I could agree that somene could see some warning track flyballs fly out of the park with the added strength, but it could also hurt flexbility - which a hitter needs.

Here's an interesting article to ponder - http://www.arthurdevany.com/webstuff/images/DeVanyHomeRunMS.pdf

The literature on highly hypertrophied body builders demonstrates slower contraction/relaxation speeds and a muscle fiber shift away from the fastest type IIx/IIb muscle fibers toward slower fast twitch type IIa and even the slow twitch type I muscle fiber

 

[clubelite]

Read this article -
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4845

That did not prove any of your points.

I was questioning it because bulking up isn't necessarily going to benefit some to a great degree - Now I could agree that somene could see some warning track flyballs fly out of the park with the added strength, but it could also hurt flexbility - which a hitter needs.

The literature on highly hypertrophied body builders demonstrates slower contraction/relaxation speeds and a muscle fiber shift away from the fastest type IIx/IIb muscle fibers toward slower fast twitch type IIa and even the slow twitch type I muscle fiber

Let's see, a 300+lb bodybuilder (contest shape) vs a baseball player at 240lbs MAX--not really comparable. Your point on flexibility is moot as we can see from pro bodybuilders with their flexibility and range of motion that is much better than the average joe (see the guys doing a variety of splits, shoulder rotations, etc.).

Your point about a shift to IIa is probably most dubious and stupid as ANY activity will lead from a shift from IIb to IIa, even explosive weightlifting and sprinting (yes look up the studies)! As proven by the fact that there are elite sprinters with low %'s of fast twitch muscle fibers, it is not the end all be all of athletic performance that you are trying to make it out to be. If you really want to get to it, there have been studies showing more effective training, for speed, using HYPERTROPHY, bodybuilding protocols on the hamstrings rather than strength protocols!

Just stop and read and think before you make these posts, please.

 

[jdvega64]

What's the steroid or muscle that enhances hand-eye coordination?

 

[gpten]

That did not prove any of your points.

Sure it did, outside of a few isolated incidents, there's very little evidence that steroids even had a remotely noticeble impact on numbers. Either for pitchers or batters.



Let's see, a 300+lb bodybuilder (contest shape) vs a baseball player at 240lbs MAX--not really comparable. Your point on flexibility is moot as we can see from pro bodybuilders with their flexibility and range of motion that is much better than the average joe (see the guys doing a variety of splits, shoulder rotations, etc.).

Your point about a shift to IIa is probably most dubious and stupid as ANY activity will lead from a shift from IIb to IIa, even explosive weightlifting and sprinting (yes look up the studies)! As proven by the fact that there are elite sprinters with low %'s of fast twitch muscle fibers, it is not the end all be all of athletic performance that you are trying to make it out to be. If you really want to get to it, there have been studies showing more effective training, for speed, using HYPERTROPHY, bodybuilding protocols on the hamstrings rather than strength protocols!

Just stop and read and think before you make these posts, please.

Nor did I see it was the " end all be all " of athletic performance - But it does indeed take flexbility to have fast batspeed, and again, there's no legitimate evidence to prove that steroids do indeed INCREASE batspeed, which actually wouldn't generate more HR power, but wait longer on pitches, to make better contact.

Also, I posted the article which did an indept analysis of steroids impact on offensive numbers, which again, debunks a widely accepted myth that there was an offensive explosion never seen before this-time which is completely false.

 

[gpten]

Baseball is a 6 to 7 month season. I think the biggest impact AAS have is in recovery and the healing from injuries.

I also think the increased red blood cells can aid in stamina.

I agree that the recovery aspect of the drug could be beneficial, but could it also cause various types of injuries ?

There's been a noticeable large amount of injuries in the " steroid era " among superstars - If I could find the link to the article, I will post it.

 

[gpten]

Now, one question to anyone, could isometric training routines enhance batspeed ?

 

[clubelite]

Sure it did, outside of a few isolated incidents, there's very little evidence that steroids even had a remotely noticeble impact on numbers. Either for pitchers or batters.

If both get better from steroids (highly simplified), then the changes in numbers would be less significant. Of course, looking at the fact that pitchers are throwing faster than ever is fairly good evidence that something has changed. Steroids are also not just a 90's phenomenon as you are trying to make them. Steroids have been VERY prevalent in the US in pro sports since the 60's, albeit, the popularity has increased more recently.

Nor did I see it was the " end all be all " of athletic performance - But it does indeed take flexbility to have fast batspeed, and again, there's no legitimate evidence to prove that steroids do indeed INCREASE batspeed, which actually wouldn't generate more HR power, but wait longer on pitches, to make better contact.

F=MA. Simplified, but if you think that bat speed will not generate more HR power you are a tool (the fact that steroids will also add mass, most likely, doesn't help out your point much either). You missed my point. You can be flexible while on steroids. Bodybuilders, olympic lifters, and sprinters, all of whom need great flexibility, use steroids.

Also, I posted the article which did an indept analysis of steroids impact on offensive numbers, which again, debunks a widely accepted myth that there was an offensive explosion never seen before this-time which is completely false.

With pitchers throwing even faster than before, the numbers may be skewed to an extent. Also, the offensive numbers ARE skewed, albeit, maybe not for the entire league. For the upper echelon of players, it most certainly is. Stop before you dig yourself deeper.

 

[clubelite]

I agree that the recovery aspect of the drug could be beneficial, but could it also cause various types of injuries ?

There's been a noticeable large amount of injuries in the " steroid era " among superstars - If I could find the link to the article, I will post it.

Who is more likely to get hurt: the 40 year old doing his daily jog or an elite sprinter running under 10 seconds?

Baseball players now are much more athletic than the ones of the past could ever dream of being (many of whom were not in any way athletic outside of baseball skills). The higher level the athlete, generally the greater the risk of injury because of the mass and speed of the player.

 

[gpten]

If both get better from steroids (highly simplified), then the changes in numbers would be less significant. Of course, looking at the fact that pitchers are throwing faster than ever is fairly good evidence that something has changed. Steroids are also not just a 90's phenomenon as you are trying to make them. Steroids have been VERY prevalent in the US in pro sports since the 60's, albeit, the popularity has increased more recently.

Actually, there have been studies done by historians that debunks the myth that today's pitchers throw harder.

http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=37240

http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=20992

And yes, I know there was steroids used in the 60's. There was a pitcher who admitted to using them.

F=MA. Simplified, but if you think that bat speed will not generate more HR power you are a tool (the fact that steroids will also add mass, most likely, doesn't help out your point much either). You missed my point. You can be flexible while on steroids. Bodybuilders, olympic lifters, and sprinters, all of whom need great flexibility, use steroids.

None of this can be proven with legitimate evidence. Generating fasterbat speed does not mean better homerun power - It means a quicker swing. You can wait on a pitch longer. Using a corked bat can do this for a hitter too - Though, it doesn't make them hit homeruns further.

And I never said bodybuilders, sprinters, etc, had no flexbility - Your putting words in my mouth, and insulting me with pety jokes while doing it.

With pitchers throwing even faster than before, the numbers may be skewed to an extent. Also, the offensive numbers ARE skewed, albeit, maybe not for the entire league. For the upper echelon of players, it most certainly is. Stop before you dig yourself deeper.

Again, there's no evidence that pitchers today throw harder than pitchers of yesteryear. None whatsoever. And you keep saying im " digging myself in a deeper hole " when you have yet to provide legit evidence that any of your claims are true. You've basically attacked me, while I'm trying my best to remain civil.

 

[gpten]

Who is more likely to get hurt: the 40 year old doing his daily jog or an elite sprinter running under 10 seconds?

Baseball players now are much more athletic than the ones of the past could ever dream of being (many of whom were not in any way athletic outside of baseball skills). The higher level the athlete, generally the greater the risk of injury because of the mass and speed of the player.

It's extremely interesting that these slew of injuries among stars came at the EXACT same-time steroids actually became rampant in baseball.