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seaking420
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IF one parent wants to be have full custody of their child and the other wants 50/50 how does the courts determine this?
How does the state determine child custody
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mrplunkey
New member
The parents initial positions don't matter unless they are asking for *less* than the other party wants. If you're asking 50/50, you wouldn't get *more* than 50/50 but if she's asking 100%... or 75% .... or 60%... that doesn't matter.
I can write you a book on this. I'll post more later.
I can write you a book on this. I'll post more later.
seaking420
New member
If you can give me as much info as you can i'd appreciate it
needtogetarmy
CEO of Project Mayhem
Smurfy said:
Custody issues are different from state to state. The most widely used legal standard is the "best interests of the child" standard.
Due to the intricacies of state law, I would consult with a local attorney.
mrplunkey
New member
Well, that's the obvious answer. Having said that, here are a few "big picture" items that I got from my lawyer:Army Vet said:
First, the system bases everything on overnight stays and typically runs on a 14-day cycle. So you're asking for "seven out of fourteen" overnights. Get used to the terminology -- it's going to become very familiar to you.
1) "Best interests of the child" is the near universal standard. Anytime you have a question or need to make a decision, let that be your acid test.
2) The system is horribly biased against men. The working assumptions is that children -- particularly young ones -- need their mother. To get a full 50/50, you're either going to need a fairly contemporary judge or a mom that's screwed some things up in the past. When you run across the inequity, don't fly off the handle. Swallow your anger and work through it.
3) They'll look at the home you can both provide, but remember that once their basic needs are met, you don't get any "better score" by providing even more. So a decent home in a decent neighborhood carries as much weight as a 15,000 sq ft mansion in beverly hills.
4) Careful with your working situations. If you've spent the last 5 years working 65 hour weeks and she's stayed at home, you'll have a tough time getting 50/50 simply because you can't be there day-in-day-out for the children. And no, nannies, siblings, or grandparents who can keep them count very little -- unless they've already been a massive part of the children's lives.
5) Careful with your histories and even how your divorce came about. Is it no-fault? You're ok. Even if it wasn't, as long as it wasn't something that would be seen as jepordizing the child or as "sketchy" you should be ok. Was it taking drugs? You're in trouble. Was it AAS use? Could be a problem. Was it abuse to her physically? Huge red flag. Now, if you banged a girl at work on a one-time basis, they don't necessarily consider you unfit. If, however, you moved in with the girl and abandoned your family for a month, you're mega-screwed.
6) Which brings me to abandonment in general. Don't move out of the house. Live in the basement bathroom if you have to. Do not leave the kids, and for the love of god don't shack-up with anyone else, leave the state or god forbid leave the country. If you want 50/50, you'll need to show massive involvement and committment to spending time with the children.
7) Which brings me to involvement in general... If you have young children, who prepares their meals? Who reads to them and puts them to bed? When they get sick or hurt, do they ask for you or for her? Alllll of these questions will be asked in depositions. If you've been massively involved up until the divorce, it will work to your benefit.
8) So what if you've been that 65-hour a week worker and barely know your children? Well, start spending more time with them now. Even during your divorce, propose alternating weekends with the children now. Establish a track record that when you are in charge, they are fed, comforted, played with, protected and raised properly. All of this stuff will come-out one way or another if you have a protracted custody fight.
9) If you really are a good guy and in the "right", don't hesitate to ask for a court-appointed psychologist to evaluate your children and recommend a living situation. Its expensive, but these professionals are very good at not getting the children all torn-up. They are smooth and your kids will probably leave with the impression that the councilor was "nice".
10) Keep the children out of the divorce except under professionally-controlled, court-approved sitations. So if they are sent to a psychologist, so be it. But if they want to discuss the divorce with you, be positive, tell them you love them, and do not badmouth the other parent. Putting the kids in the middle of a divorce is not only damaging to the child, but a judge will throw you under the jail for doing it.
I'll do more as it comes to mind. Good luck and I'm sorry to hear you are going through this.
txbondsman
New member
seaking420 said:
420, doesn't that have another meaning? ooops....
big deal in a custody case, especially if there were kids present when the 420 was being used. If she was seaking420 too, she may not want it brought up, but it WILL come out....
just sayin'
all the whey
New member
seaking420 said:
Just PIITB.
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heatherrae
Guest
Most states use the "best interests of the child" standard and most states favor joint custody arrangments over sole custody to one parent. In Kentucky, many counties have a "standard" visitation schedule that serves as a guideline to the typical visitation guidelines. This is every other weekend, one weeknight, and every other holiday, plus other days as the parents agree. Your state may vary, but that seems to be the most common arrangement. Be careful taking legal advice from non-lawyers. You get what you pay for.
With regard to the "standard" visitation schedule, that isn't to say that the courts don't vary from that. It is just the one that they start with as a guideline. If the parties agree to something else or they want a trial on the matter, the judge can set it at whatever he or she thinks is in the best interests of the children.
People on this thread are giving you advice based on their personal experiences, but what they fail to realize is that they are basing their opinions on their one case in their own one jurisdiction. Ask a lawyer in your own jurisdiction. This is too important to trust the advice of lay persons on the internet.
With regard to the "standard" visitation schedule, that isn't to say that the courts don't vary from that. It is just the one that they start with as a guideline. If the parties agree to something else or they want a trial on the matter, the judge can set it at whatever he or she thinks is in the best interests of the children.
People on this thread are giving you advice based on their personal experiences, but what they fail to realize is that they are basing their opinions on their one case in their own one jurisdiction. Ask a lawyer in your own jurisdiction. This is too important to trust the advice of lay persons on the internet.
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mrplunkey
New member
Next installment!
When I was initially presented with the "standard" TN plan of every other weekend plus one overnight during each week (2 + 1 + 1 = 4/14), it really pissed me off. Almost all guys react to it, but my lawyer did a great job of making me sit down and really think-through why I wanted a 50/50 arrangement. Here are a couple of things to think about:
1) Part of why 50/50 is an uphill battle for men is because the system often assumes they are doing it just to make child support payments smaller. Many (if not most) states sperate custody, parental visitation and child support into three issues -- but they are somewhat linked. So 50/50 parental visitation will often lead to a smaller child support payment, so some guys try to use it for that purpose. I hope you aren't trying to do that (and I'm assuming you aren't).
2) A 50/50 time split makes you a "single dad". Do remember that society in general deals with single moms better than single dads. It's not fair, but it's the way things are. A mom who's 15 minutes late because of kid issues can usually generate empathy. A dad, on the other hand, typically doesn't. I was 10 minutes late for a meeting last Thursday and mentioned that I'm "Mr. Dad" this week and the guys thought I was kidding. When they realized I wasn't, it sort of blew their minds.
3) 50/50 is a ton of responsibility. You'd be suprised at how much energy doing meals, getting them ready for bed, getting them to soccer practice, helping with homework, dealing with sickness, etc. etc. can be. If you're dead-set on 50/50, realize you'll have to commit massive amounts of non-work time to the children.
4) Right after divorce, men generally go crazy for about 6 months. Its not unusual to play really hard and get a lot of the frusturation from the last relationship out of your system. God knows I went wild -- hedonistic wild. But when you have 50/50 time, you have to master a Dr. Jeckle / Mr. Hyde arrangement. So one week its booze and wiminz in the hot tub... and the next week its PTA meetings and soccer practice.
5) Remember that almost any parenting plan will have a "No non-related overnight guests of the opposite sex" clause. It makes sense, but remember that 50/50 time makes it almost impossible for a woman to move-in with you without your ex's approval. When you have 4/14... you can have a backup plan for those nights but once you're talking 50/50, no one wants to be "homeless" for half the time.
6) Doing 50/50 time means they'll truly have two homes -- and that means double the household expense for clothes, toiletries, toys, books, etc. etc. When it's 4/14, they are "visiting" you. Sure, you'll have some of their things at your house either way, but with a 50/50 arrangment, I'd recommend a "zero pack" policy which means they don't need to pack a single thing in order the change houses. Zero-pack is great -- but its also a 100% cost increase. Sad thing is, with child support payments flowing from you to your wife, you could find yourself funding their needs at both her house *and* yours. It sucks, but it's something you just need to do.
7) If you do 50/50 time, I'd strongly recommend week on / week off. Pick a hand-off time like end-of-school on a Monday afternoon or a Friday afternoon. Fridays are good because you go into a weekend and they can re-adjust (that's what I do). The only problem with Friday's is you don't get a good chance to plan the weekend. So you may get the kids at 3:30 friday, but they may have made plans with friends for the mall, or birthday parties, or sports events without you knowing the exact plan.
So bottom line: Take some time and soul-search your reasons for wanting 50/50 time. Its a massive responsibility, but for me personally its totally worth it. My best day is the day I get my kids... but my second-best day is the day I hand them back off
Hope this helps!
When I was initially presented with the "standard" TN plan of every other weekend plus one overnight during each week (2 + 1 + 1 = 4/14), it really pissed me off. Almost all guys react to it, but my lawyer did a great job of making me sit down and really think-through why I wanted a 50/50 arrangement. Here are a couple of things to think about:
1) Part of why 50/50 is an uphill battle for men is because the system often assumes they are doing it just to make child support payments smaller. Many (if not most) states sperate custody, parental visitation and child support into three issues -- but they are somewhat linked. So 50/50 parental visitation will often lead to a smaller child support payment, so some guys try to use it for that purpose. I hope you aren't trying to do that (and I'm assuming you aren't).
2) A 50/50 time split makes you a "single dad". Do remember that society in general deals with single moms better than single dads. It's not fair, but it's the way things are. A mom who's 15 minutes late because of kid issues can usually generate empathy. A dad, on the other hand, typically doesn't. I was 10 minutes late for a meeting last Thursday and mentioned that I'm "Mr. Dad" this week and the guys thought I was kidding. When they realized I wasn't, it sort of blew their minds.
3) 50/50 is a ton of responsibility. You'd be suprised at how much energy doing meals, getting them ready for bed, getting them to soccer practice, helping with homework, dealing with sickness, etc. etc. can be. If you're dead-set on 50/50, realize you'll have to commit massive amounts of non-work time to the children.
4) Right after divorce, men generally go crazy for about 6 months. Its not unusual to play really hard and get a lot of the frusturation from the last relationship out of your system. God knows I went wild -- hedonistic wild. But when you have 50/50 time, you have to master a Dr. Jeckle / Mr. Hyde arrangement. So one week its booze and wiminz in the hot tub... and the next week its PTA meetings and soccer practice.
5) Remember that almost any parenting plan will have a "No non-related overnight guests of the opposite sex" clause. It makes sense, but remember that 50/50 time makes it almost impossible for a woman to move-in with you without your ex's approval. When you have 4/14... you can have a backup plan for those nights but once you're talking 50/50, no one wants to be "homeless" for half the time.
6) Doing 50/50 time means they'll truly have two homes -- and that means double the household expense for clothes, toiletries, toys, books, etc. etc. When it's 4/14, they are "visiting" you. Sure, you'll have some of their things at your house either way, but with a 50/50 arrangment, I'd recommend a "zero pack" policy which means they don't need to pack a single thing in order the change houses. Zero-pack is great -- but its also a 100% cost increase. Sad thing is, with child support payments flowing from you to your wife, you could find yourself funding their needs at both her house *and* yours. It sucks, but it's something you just need to do.
7) If you do 50/50 time, I'd strongly recommend week on / week off. Pick a hand-off time like end-of-school on a Monday afternoon or a Friday afternoon. Fridays are good because you go into a weekend and they can re-adjust (that's what I do). The only problem with Friday's is you don't get a good chance to plan the weekend. So you may get the kids at 3:30 friday, but they may have made plans with friends for the mall, or birthday parties, or sports events without you knowing the exact plan.
So bottom line: Take some time and soul-search your reasons for wanting 50/50 time. Its a massive responsibility, but for me personally its totally worth it. My best day is the day I get my kids... but my second-best day is the day I hand them back off
Hope this helps!
I like that no pack policy. It almost works that way with us. My son has all the clothing he needs pretty much at both houses even though he sees his Dad very infrequently due to the proximity (MD to Chicago).
No matter what the arrangement is, it's hard on everyone in the beginning but it does get better once everyone comes to terms with it, so keep that in mind. And do your best to remain in control of yourself on all levels, and especially in front of the kids and the ex.
No matter what the arrangement is, it's hard on everyone in the beginning but it does get better once everyone comes to terms with it, so keep that in mind. And do your best to remain in control of yourself on all levels, and especially in front of the kids and the ex.
txbondsman
New member
I spent over 30K in legal fees in a custidy case when my son was born. Almost a 0% chance to win an out-of-state case, but it was the best money I ever spent. I lost as even Stevie Wonder could have seen, but as a direct result of my actions, he now lives at home with me... and my wife, his mom.
(extreemly short version of a really, really, long story)
(extreemly short version of a really, really, long story)
all the whey
New member
Smurfy said:
Yes
Then, you won't have to even worry about child custody, etc.
mrplunkey
New member
oh oh oh! I forgot to mention that one...txbondsman said:
This varies state-by-state, but parenting time has a direct influence on your ability (or hers) to relocate (and I mean another state or country... not 20 miles away). For example, in just about any situation where custody is *truly* down the middle, either parent relocating and taking the kids with them is very hard. But what if the time isn't 50/50? Well that's what varies state-by-state. Here were some TN examples my lawyer gave me:
1) True 50/50 coparenting arrangement. Mom falls in love, gets married and wants to relocate children. Father objects and prevails. TN case law currently says even when the mother has a reason that legitimate, you can't simply relocate kids.
2) Dad gets 4 out of 14... TN courts ruled that mom can relocate the kids for almost *any* legitimate reason. New husband... new job... get closer to family or support... Basically anything other than to spite the father.
3) Dad gets 6 out of 14... this is the one that chilled me. Dad objects to mom moving to be closer to family and support system. Dad loses and is forced to re-do parenting plan.
So in TN, even getting a little less than 50/50 time opens the door to the mother being able to unilaterally move the kids.
Check with your attorney on this one... it's a biggie here in TN and I bet its an issue elsewhere too.
Bikini Mod
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It's a crap shoot no matter anyone says. There is the way it is "supposed to be" and then there is THE WAY IT ACTUALLY IS.
Try like a motherfucker to remain civil with your child's mother. That would be the best non-legal advice I can give. If she refuses to remain civil then your life is pretty much in the palms of her hand as she will not hesitate to use your child to control you.
The gender of the parent who wants to fuck with the other parent is irrelevant. As long as one parent wants to use a child, the system WILL allow it.
I hope that all of you can ultimately be happy. Good luck.
Try like a motherfucker to remain civil with your child's mother. That would be the best non-legal advice I can give. If she refuses to remain civil then your life is pretty much in the palms of her hand as she will not hesitate to use your child to control you.
The gender of the parent who wants to fuck with the other parent is irrelevant. As long as one parent wants to use a child, the system WILL allow it.
I hope that all of you can ultimately be happy. Good luck.
Bikini Mod
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How old is the child in question?
Bikini Mod
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superdave said:
LOL actually (if I am not making a mistake and switcing up user names, which I very well may be) he is cheating on HER...
If the child is very young I don't believe that a split arrangement is what any court allows.
all the whey
New member
BIKINIMOM said:
Old enough!!!!
Bikini Mod
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all the whey said:Old enough!!!!
OMG I literally busted out laughing.
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heatherrae
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA! Good St Patricks day pic.all the whey said:Old enough!!!!
A
alien amp pharm
Guest
I'm discussing a vasectomy with my doctor when I go have my physical done in a few months. I don't see how you people go thru this stuff.
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heatherrae
Guest
As an aside, in all the cases I've ever seen in Kentucky, not once have I seen a "no members of the opposite sex can sleep over" clause -- not once. I don't think it is as common as Plunkey may think. Maybe it is in HIS jurisdiction. It certainly isn't here.
mrplunkey
New member
Yup -- my attorney said we might as well leave it in since other than the "biggies" (i.e. abusing the child), overnight-stays / GF's are one of the biggest items that will get a dad hauled back into court. Even if its not specific about overnight stays, there will (or should) be something about no "sexually inappropriate" behavior in the parenting plan.Smurfy said:
And you don't have to be banging her on the couch in front of the children either... I was considering using a nanny part-time right after my divorce and because she was relatively young (26) and not bad looking (think nice... but definintely not "hot") we might run into trouble even with that.
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heatherrae
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I would hate that agreement. Basically, you are promising to never seriously date anyone ever again. I would never agree to that.Smurfy said:
Bikini Mod
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Interesting, I never had a man in my apartment (only two met my children and I married the second) nor did I sleep with one in the bed with him when I did have a serious relationship where he courted me AND my children.
I didn't feel the need to sleep in the same bed with him when my children were present. I slept in the bed with my kids. Matter of fact they never even saw me do more than get a peck on my cheek by a man that was not my husband.
And still they were taken.... because I DID sleep in the bed with my children.
Bottom line is: there is what is supposed to happen and then there is what DOES.
Perhaps I am old-fashioned but I don't feel it is appropriate for a single parent to sleep in the same bed with another adult with their children present under the same roof until they are legally committed.
A lot of good that point of view did me, eh?
I didn't feel the need to sleep in the same bed with him when my children were present. I slept in the bed with my kids. Matter of fact they never even saw me do more than get a peck on my cheek by a man that was not my husband.
And still they were taken.... because I DID sleep in the bed with my children.
Bottom line is: there is what is supposed to happen and then there is what DOES.
Perhaps I am old-fashioned but I don't feel it is appropriate for a single parent to sleep in the same bed with another adult with their children present under the same roof until they are legally committed.
A lot of good that point of view did me, eh?
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heatherrae
Guest
I had my new bf sleep over in January. He was there for me when I was prego, despite the fact that he, of course, was not the daddy. He wanted to meet Devin, and with Devin being so little, it is hard to date someone who won't sometimes do a movie night in with me and Dev. I guess my situation is a little different in that Devin doesn't know his daddy. I, of course, wouldn't bring any other man around him, but I think that my bf in Texas might actually lead to something special.BIKINIMOM said:
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heatherrae said:
It's always a tough call, when to introduce someone special. I can't tell you how many men swore up and down that they would be "there" for me AND my kids only to *poof* when the latest court papers were filed by my ex. Thank goodness I was suspicious enough to NOT introduce them.
Only two men - I married the second.
Your son is still too little to realize what is going on. So you have more freedom but once he is aware of adult relationships it will be more difficult to explain why a man who he thought "loved him AND mommy" all of the sudden isn't there anymore.
I am not preaching and I know I am not telling you anything that you haven't mulled over in your own mind a gazillion times. I am just relaying my personal experiences which have been echoed by MANY MANY MANY other women.
Men SAY they want one thing, but when it comes down to it often times they will do the opposite and run scared when it comes to a real commitment.
All I am saying is that you shouldn't feel pressured to have a bf meet your son "to see if they like each other." If a man loves you then he will DEFINITELY love your son.
Please don't take my thoughts out loud as preaching. I am not!
Just hoping to help you out.
I will shut up now.And PS - that invitation for you to bring your son here so you can visit w/your beau is always open. We even have a live in who has an 8 year old of her own.
Seriously, just call and take us up on the offer. We live bout 20 minutes outside of Dallas.
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heatherrae
Guest
Cool. I will let you know when I go to Dallas.BIKINIMOM said:It's always a tough call, when to introduce someone special. I can't tell you how many men swore up and down that they would be "there" for me AND my kids only to *poof* when the latest court papers were filed by my ex. Thank goodness I was suspicious enough to NOT introduce them.
Only two men - I married the second.
Your son is still too little to realize what is going on. So you have more freedom but once he is aware of adult relationships it will be more difficult to explain why a man who he thought "loved him AND mommy" all of the sudden isn't there anymore.
I am not preaching and I know I am not telling you anything that you haven't mulled over in your own mind a gazillion times. I am just relaying my personal experiences which have been echoed by MANY MANY MANY other women.
Men SAY they want one thing, but when it comes down to it often times they will do the opposite and run scared when it comes to a real commitment.
All I am saying is that you shouldn't feel pressured to have a bf meet your son "to see if they like each other." If a man loves you then he will DEFINITELY love your son.
Please don't take my thoughts out loud as preaching. I am not!
Just hoping to help you out.
And PS - that invitation for you to bring your son here so you can visit w/your beau is always open. We even have a live in who has an 8 year old of her own.
Seriously, just call and take us up on the offer. We live bout 20 minutes outside of Dallas.
I'm not taking it as preaching. It is certainly 100% valid points, and I hear you loud and clear.
all the whey
New member
heatherrae said:
What is your definition of "something special"?
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heatherrae
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:blush:all the whey said:
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heatherrae
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bringing me cake.all the whey said:
all the whey
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heatherrae said:
I am sure it is different than his.
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Smurfy said:
WERD
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heatherrae
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all the whey said:
I am sure it is different than his.
once you do the first, you never have to do the second.
hehehehehehehe
mrplunkey
New member
Smurfy said:
That's a great point and I couldn't agree more. Determination of custody is this complex combination of tons of factors. Several issues are common to most cases (like I mentioned in the "installments") and the rest is the devil in the details. My advice to seeking would be make sure the big stuff gets covered and then haggle the details realizing that custody is a like football -- its usually a game of inches.
I guess one of the few guarantees out there is that custody will never be given or removed for a single reason because almost every divorce is so complex.
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mrplunkey said:
Not unless one of the parties is officially determined to be "The Devil" by the judge...
my father fought for custody of his boys for years, after having all visitation cut off. Because he had a criminal record, he could never make any headway.
Until the school found out that one boy was urinating blood because his mother kicked him in the kidneys and hit him with a frying pan. The other was just locked in a closet and called "retard".
She lost all rights then and my father got them back.
Until the school found out that one boy was urinating blood because his mother kicked him in the kidneys and hit him with a frying pan. The other was just locked in a closet and called "retard".
She lost all rights then and my father got them back.
Bikini Mod
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stilleto said:
Fucked up how that shit happens... trust me when I tell you it goes the othe way around too.
Meaning that good mothers are stripped of custody only to have the children solely given to a POS just so that "that bitch/whore" couldn't have them.... abused till they are old enough to leave home or commit suicide. You just don't hear about it so often because of the added element of shame.
Sucks regardless, THE KIDS pay the price.
Grumpy Old Man
Grumpy Old Biker Bastard
So all thestilleto said:
1)
2)
3) shit really doesn't work? Damn I already knew that. The parent that loves them and is good to them should get custody, not some idiot manipulating the system regardless of what others "think". Usually the ones that preach knowing so damn much about custody are the ones that used the system to fuck the kids by making the other party miserable.
I am for ya Stilleto! You always are sooooo smart!
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stilleto said:
I don't know your father and wouldn't even try to speak for him, but that one year/two made all the years before fighting for them worth it.
You know my fears...
Why I value each and every day.
all the whey
New member
How about if we all chill the fuck out. And, stop having so many kids at a younger age.
BIKINIMOM said:I don't know your father and wouldn't even try to speak for him, but that one year/two made all the years before fighting for them worth it.
You know my fears...
Why I value each and every day.
i know.
he was so happy for those years. so were the boys.
Grumpy Old Man
Grumpy Old Biker Bastard
all the whey said:
You the first on EF for the sterilization line?
ps I love ur cat pics!
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all the whey said:
Having children at an early age shouldnt have a damned thing to do with this.
This is more about a system that is supposed to protect the best interest of children... that does NOT.
I've lived in places where all of the rights belong to the mother. The men know this up front. So they develop very close and loving relationships with their children from the getco so that in the case that the marriage does not last, their relationship with their children will remain unharmed.
Interesting concept.... don't you think?
all the whey
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Grumpy Old Man said:You the first on EF for the sterilization line?
ps I love ur cat pics!
We should be all fixed.
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all the whey said:
Ummm I ain't broke!
Grumpy Old Man
Grumpy Old Biker Bastard
all the whey said:
Too late! Now what about the rest of the youngsters?
all the whey
New member
Grumpy Old Man said:Too late! Now what about the rest of the youngsters?
Age 12 should be good. Then, after they are married, took parenting classes, mental test, drug test, make a certain amount of money, be a certain age (atleast over 25), etc then they can have a kid.
mrplunkey
New member
Judges are allowed (and will often) form opinions of people during the course of a trial. Even then, its a combination of factors that come into play to come-up with an opinion that someone is "the devil".BIKINIMOM said:Not unless one of the parties is officially determined to be "The Devil" by the judge...
Grumpy Old Man
Grumpy Old Biker Bastard
all the whey said:
I think people should have a stupid test, if they don't pass either a 50,000 volt zap to the brain would work or just placed in a small container and ground for fertilizer. Other tests are optional.
From what I have seen both would work. Take any trip to a walmart for example. The mom is in the three wheeled fat cart, the 5 fat kids follow close behind eating everything in site, the basket in the mobile fat cart is full of chips, dips, corn dogs and scooter pies.
I am afterall an eco guy, save the world kill stupid people. Do you know how much plastic it takes to cover a fat chick?
Bikini Mod
New member
mrplunkey said:
True... too bad the previous statement was that he found no wrong-doing whatever on the part of "the devil"... just that he had "a feeling".
Regardless, said judge is now bye-bye due to misconduct.
Sorta casts a bit of a shadow on said judge's rulings....
*cough*
FEELINGS.
Grumpy Old Man
Grumpy Old Biker Bastard
mrplunkey said:
So all of your posts have to do with The United States Court of Feelings vs ?
Seems a little off to me. If a court rules for or against someone I thought it was based upon law. But then again some people really are sensitive and get "That feeling"
I am stumped, either you give advice or you give feelings, which is it?
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Grumpy Old Man said:So all of your posts have to do with The United States Court of Feelings vs ?
Seems a little off to me. If a court rules for or against someone I thought it was based upon law. But then again some people really are sensitive and get "That feeling"
I am stumped, either you give advice or you give feelings, which is it?
Ppsssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Old Man.... you don't even fukkin exist. I created you in my megalomaniacal hysterionic disorder delusion. I wouldn't know the truth if it drove right up in a Jaguar and bit me on my rock hard ass.... *giggle*
Grumpy Old Man
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BIKINIMOM said:
Damn I forgot I was old and I really don't exist.
;santa:
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Grumpy Old Man said:
Hey, it ain't easy when you are going up against the self-proclaimed elite resident child custody expert....
And No, I ain't talkin bout Ms HeatherRae (who was a family law attorney)... hehehehehe
Hey, as long as we are here to help one another out, does it REALLY matter? I mean as long as the newly single fathers don't let the courts know about their hedonistic weeks without their kids, that shit shouldn't affect ANYONE's perception about their parental status.... right? Not like EF (or the courts or anybody else) would judge a mother the same way... would it?
NNNNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh
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bottleneckblooz
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seaking420 said:
They check to see which parent has the vagina.
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mrplunkey said:You mean hysterionic TENDENCIES damnit! THAT DOESN"T MAKE SOMEONE HYSTRIONIC DARLIN. TENDENCIES!!!!
On a completely different subject... has anyone here ever lived in Europe? I hear France is nice. I'm trying to plan ahead a little.
LOL
The fact that I LIKE ATTENTION does not make me an unfit parent. The fact that a judge decided I was "The Devil" based on "a feeling", I suppose did. I am guessing that you missed my thread about how that ASSHOLE was recently relieved of his duties? Here allow me to help you out:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/chat-conversation/ding-dong-judge-gone-588115.html
Nice try at a cheap shot - REALLY made you look good.
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bottleneckblooz said:
You are mistaken.
Perhaps it was this way in the past, but the pendulum swung the other way a loooooooooooong time ago.
mrplunkey said:
Wrong. Judges are not allowed to form opinions of people that will affect the outcome of a fair and unbiased trial. Just as jurors are dismissed from potential duty if they declare or are found to be biased or have personal interest in the parties/outcome. Judges are expected to remove the case from their docket if this is the case. Trial matters and outcomes are - and should be - determined by evidence presented to pass judgement on. Not a "hunch".
---
Judges must be independent from all outside influences that may affect their abilities to be fair and impartial. At a minimum, judges cannot allow family, personal, social or political relationships to influence any judicial decision. Judges also should not hear a matter in which the judge has a personal interest in the outcome. Extreme examples of improper influence would include the giving or receiving of gifts, bribes, loans or favors. To help assure judicial independence, judges are required to file financial disclosure statements with the court and other financial statements with the Alaska Public Offices Commission.
Judges are also subject to restrictions in other aspects of their positions. These include prohibitions against: conducting proceedings or discussions involving one party to a legal dispute; interfering with the attorney-client relationship; bias; improper campaign activities; abusing the prestige of the judicial office; obstructing justice; and criminal behavior.
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Justice Peter Cory:
" A system of justice, if it is to have the respect and confidence of its society, must ensure that trials are fair and that they appear to be fair to the informed and reasonable observer. This is a fundamental goal of the justice system in any free and democratic society.
It is a well-established principle that all adjudicative tribunals and administrative bodies owe a duty of fairness to the parties who must appear before them. ... In order to fulfil this duty the decision-maker must be and appear to be unbiased. The scope of this duty and the rigour with which it is applied will vary with the nature of the tribunal in question.
... The right to trial by an impartial tribunal has been expressly enshrined by ss. 7 and 11(d)
Objectivity:-
The quality or character of being objective, viz., to be focused on external realities versus one's own unsupported internal views, is of fundamental importance to the judge. A judge is to maintain, and project at all times, a sense of objectivity. In an absolute since, however, such objectivity is an impossibility! Judges, like all other humans, are obliged to operate from their own perspectives.
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Grumpy Old Man
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AAP said:
Now I get the feeling AAP is, as always, dead on.
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AAP said:
The hell you say?
NO FUCKING WAY!!!
That would be like a judge sitting on the bench and saying if a black male was awarded custody the child would grow up to steal car radios. Because he has an opinion that is what black males do. He might be Southern born and raised. He might see 1000 black male car stereo thieves come through his court room each week. He might have even been the victim of having his car radio jacked and the only evidence left behind was a chicken bone and traces of jheri curl Activator. (evidence it was a black male).
But for the one black male standing before his bench on that day, all the above is a completely moot issue. Or at least it should be. Once you stray from the objectivity of unbiased outlook and evidence/testimony into the realm of guessing and personal opinion, the issue of "finding justice in the court system" is lost.
But for the one black male standing before his bench on that day, all the above is a completely moot issue. Or at least it should be. Once you stray from the objectivity of unbiased outlook and evidence/testimony into the realm of guessing and personal opinion, the issue of "finding justice in the court system" is lost.
seaking420
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wow I havent been on in a few days, i didnt think this thread would go so long. Thanks everyone for your replies.
he's 2 years and 7 months
From what I heard, when the child is young they feel that the child should see his parents frequently, not too many days apart.
I dont regret having my son at all.......I hear many people on here saying im not getting married or ever having kids...........until you have a child you have no idea the amount of love you have for them.........you can't honestly say you would give your life for anything unless you have a child. Yeah there are some negatives about having a child that I can go into, but they get easily outweighed when you get that smile or laugh from them....its unbeleiveable
he's 2 years and 7 months
From what I heard, when the child is young they feel that the child should see his parents frequently, not too many days apart.
I dont regret having my son at all.......I hear many people on here saying im not getting married or ever having kids...........until you have a child you have no idea the amount of love you have for them.........you can't honestly say you would give your life for anything unless you have a child. Yeah there are some negatives about having a child that I can go into, but they get easily outweighed when you get that smile or laugh from them....its unbeleiveable
mrplunkey
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Now see? That thread is a great example. You went on and on about how you're going to sue that judge's ass and normally I'd do what I typically do when I see a delusional BM rant -- just snicker and go to the next thread. But since you brought it up...BIKINIMOM said:LOL
The fact that I LIKE ATTENTION does not make me an unfit parent. The fact that a judge decided I was "The Devil" based on "a feeling", I suppose did. I am guessing that you missed my thread about how that ASSHOLE was recently relieved of his duties? Here allow me to help you out:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/chat-conversation/ding-dong-judge-gone-588115.html
Nice try at a cheap shot - REALLY made you look good.
No, you're not going to "embarrass him on national TV". You will, however, have a good shot at getting your case re-examined and obviously you'll have a fresh judge. I started to mention the concept of Judicial Immunity and other protections afforded judges but I figure you'd just rant in four different directions, use a shitload of ALL CAPITAL LETTERS, throw-out a few "darlin"'s and then there would be yet another 21-page waste of board space out there.
Now back to my totally unrelated subject...
France sounds good, but I have to think I'd get KILLED by the court if I just up and left the country while my kids were still here. I mean, that would totally piss-off the judge in my case and I'm afraid it might make him form a really bad opinion of me. Hmm... wonder if anyone out there has any experience in that. Comments, ANYONE?
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heatherrae
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Reason #17 984 not to get married and have kids...seaking420 said:
Absolutely!
mrplunkey
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Nice work trying to muddy the water but it won't work.AAP said:
You're referring to judicial bias and yes, they can't do that. Here's an example:
1) I know absolutely nothing about this guy but he's guilty because he's black
2) This woman is obviously a whore because she has long blond hair
3) This guy must be a criminal because he's an investment banker
Now as the trial proceeds and when it is over, the judge in a non-jury trial WILL form an opinion -- its what they do. So, for example...
1) This is a horribly aggravated case of rape and I am imposing the maximum sentence to you because of its horrific nature and due to the fact I think you are a menace to society.
or...
2) You are obviously a decent kid who got mixed-up temporarily with wrong crowd. I'm not going to subject you to any jail time and will fine you and give you probation instead.
See the difference? After the trial in a non-jury trial, judges often do express their view of the case and use that to explain why they sentence what they do.
Peace out!
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mrplunkey said:
LOL
Clearly as AAP and I have pointed out - you didn't know what you were talking about before and you STILL don't know what you are talking about now.
Keep digging... you are looking better and better.
seaking420
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As much as I hope that is the truth, i think its human nature to start to have your own opinion about someone.
all the whey
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If I was a judge.
I'd lock you all up.
I'd lock you all up.
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heatherrae
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yes, the judge acts as "finder of fact" in cases where there is no jury, as in these custody cases and they render opinions based on law and on "findings of FACT." This is not supposed to include biases or prejudices and is supposed to be objective facts.
Obviously, this judge did not do a very good job at his duties. It takes A LOT to get a judge removed from the bench based upon his rulings.
I have to defend BM here and say, MrPlunkey, that from a review of the transcripts, this judge was coming up with some pretty UNUSUAL (I'm being too kind) rulings from the bench. I would characterize his behavior as bizarre, actually.
Now, why you feel the need to constantly berate and harass BM about her children is beyond me. You must be a pretty angry/miserable person to come to the internet with the intent to pick fights.
Obviously, this judge did not do a very good job at his duties. It takes A LOT to get a judge removed from the bench based upon his rulings.
I have to defend BM here and say, MrPlunkey, that from a review of the transcripts, this judge was coming up with some pretty UNUSUAL (I'm being too kind) rulings from the bench. I would characterize his behavior as bizarre, actually.
Now, why you feel the need to constantly berate and harass BM about her children is beyond me. You must be a pretty angry/miserable person to come to the internet with the intent to pick fights.
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stilleto said:
Now THAT'S funny!
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heatherrae said:
Your guess is as good as mine, or anybody else's.
Clearly he has an agenda and it is NOT to help anyone, but to harrass and make fun of a family that has been destroyed by ONE PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A JUDGE. <-- and that was not only MY personal experience, but clearly the experience of others as he was:
REMOVED FROM THE BENCH WITH ZERO SUPPORT FROM HIS COLLEGUES.
What my using caps/bold/italics/colors in my typins has to do with that is beyond me.
And you better fukkin believe that I will publicize MY FAMILY'S STORY to the best extent that I can.
If more people were made aware that EXCELLENT mothers are robbed of custody because of inane reasons (and actually given to abusive fathers) then perhaps there would be less ignorance and hatred spewed at those women.....
.... but that is only my opinion and MY OPINION is like everybody's asshole.
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heatherrae
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAstilleto said:
mrplunkey said:
In addition to being wrong again, you are clearly just attempting to shield your own bigotry and biased opinion with this completely incoherent blabbering.
A judge determines a RULING not an opinion. He may express the ruling based on the GUIDELINES that have been established through federal/state/local judicial process and mandatory REQUIREMENTS that have or have not been met.
The contradictory nature of your examples clearly show you can not simply grasp a simple concept. Because the sentencing in those examples you wonderfully provided show that a judge must still remained unbiased in light of evidence presented and guidelines established.
If you can't understand something as simple as that, perhaps you should sit out of the conversation because there's clearly no hope for you participating even on the average level.
And while I am posting on this thread, your oh so cute and subtle little digs didn't go unnoticed.
The only thing more glaring than your obvious lack of the courts and justice system is your own biased nature and feeble attempts of trying over and over again to get a reaction out of BM.
Which is more pathetic than amusing. Better people than you have tried. Didn't work for them. Certainly won't work for you either. Other than your own personal vendetta towards BM, you have really had nothing to contribute to this whole thread.
The only thing more glaring than your obvious lack of the courts and justice system is your own biased nature and feeble attempts of trying over and over again to get a reaction out of BM.
Which is more pathetic than amusing. Better people than you have tried. Didn't work for them. Certainly won't work for you either. Other than your own personal vendetta towards BM, you have really had nothing to contribute to this whole thread.
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heatherrae
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I agree entirely. He must be a sad little shell of a man.AAP said:
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This is not a personal dig at Plunkey (believe it or not) but (sadly) he is representative of the hatred that I and my children and MY ENTIRE FAMILY have had to endure because of bias, ignorance and assumptions.
... "Surely your mother must have done something PRETTY BAD to have a judge take you away from her."
Which = me being "The Devil" (with no hope whatsoever of getting my kids back) and my kids begging for help, yet trapped in hell because no one will believe what they are saying.... "Surely the judge would know about 'that' and change your situation and give you back to your mother if 'that' were true."
'that' = whatever abuse THEY were alleging.
In light of that fact, I am actually glad that Plunkey keeps posting so that EVERYONE can see what I am (and have been) talking about all of this time.
... "Surely your mother must have done something PRETTY BAD to have a judge take you away from her."
Which = me being "The Devil" (with no hope whatsoever of getting my kids back) and my kids begging for help, yet trapped in hell because no one will believe what they are saying.... "Surely the judge would know about 'that' and change your situation and give you back to your mother if 'that' were true."
'that' = whatever abuse THEY were alleging.
In light of that fact, I am actually glad that Plunkey keeps posting so that EVERYONE can see what I am (and have been) talking about all of this time.
Grumpy Old Man
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BIKINIMOM said:
Seems that the very last of the few haters has been addressed.
I remember when all the hoopla was about you being many things I will not bring up.
I have seen a transformation that has been amazing. Now one of the last pieces of the nasty past has fallen.
Now in short order we should have the girls, you have plenty of means to support them should the Old Grump go to the Biker Heaven in the sky. Then life will be good. (at least for me hangin with the biker brothers)
KARMA is a great thing, works everytime.
mrplunkey said:
Fact! No idea what the long blond hair has to do with it.
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