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How does Israel control the US
- Thread starter Lao Tzu
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Testosterone boy
New member
Well.....they don't.nordstrom said:
The power elite of the jews live where ever they choose.
I use the word Israelis because it sounds more open than Jews.
the nature boy
New member
they don't control the US, to think so would be foolish. They do have a very strong lobbying group on capital hill.
as for jews voting democratic, why on earth would that have an effect on our policy to israel? Joe Leiberman is a huge Israel supporter and he's a Dem.
as for jews voting democratic, why on earth would that have an effect on our policy to israel? Joe Leiberman is a huge Israel supporter and he's a Dem.
bluepeter
New member
Not really on either side of the fence here but just to throw out a thought......why then does the U.S. always align with Israel over the Palestinians? That's just an example, I'm sure there are many more......how does this happen? There must be something going on behind closed doors between the U.S. and Israel....
the nature boy
New member
TQpew said:
you're right. Alot of these religious right nutjobs are pushing big time to let israel do what it wants.
here's a good news article about that, I encourage all of you to read it. It's quite disturbing:
"There’s nothing that would bring the wrath of the Christian public in this country down on this government like abandoning or opposing Israel in a critical matter,” Falwell says. The “Christian public” is, he says, Mr. Bush’s core constituency. "
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/03/60minutes/main524268.shtml
the nature boy
New member
bluepeter said:
lol, if it wasn't the muslims it would be someone else. These freaks are trying to push for the end of the world and the return of jesus.
atlantabiolab
New member
It is simple. People with ambition and agendas routinely obtain positions to forward their position. So, if your goal is to shape policies to your liking, you strive, individually or collectively, to obtain those positions which grant you this leverage.
This is not restricted to Jews; it holds true for any interest.
This is not restricted to Jews; it holds true for any interest.
C
Code
Guest
As a special interest group, the Israelites put money in the right coffers(democrats).
As the current owners of Zion, they hold sway over the religious right(republicans).
As the current owners of Zion, they hold sway over the religious right(republicans).
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Code
Guest
Well, the jews used a fucked up calendar.
So they can just claim that they thought the Second Coming is really the First Coming.
So they can just claim that they thought the Second Coming is really the First Coming.
Lao Tzu
New member
bluepeter said:
Well
1. the palestinians support(ed) Hussein, Bin Ladin, Khomeni & the USSR. Israel allied with the US against them.
2. palestinian culture is different from US culture. Israeli & US culture are almost identical.
3. Israelis like us, palestinians hate us
4. Israel is the only democracy in the middle east & the only country rated 'free' by freedom house (which gauges political & civil rights of inhabitants) in the middle east. The US supposedly supports freedom & democracy.
How do we 'always' align with Israel? Hasn't the US condemned the building of the wall that annexes parts of the west bank? didnt the us try to stop the invasion of Jenin? I have learned from reading that when people (at least muslims) say the US offers 'blind support' of Israel what they really mean is we don't offer unconditional blind support for the Palestinians like they do. I doubt you fit this category, but when phrases like blind support or unconditional support or always support Israel comes up i always think of that.
Lao Tzu
New member
Code said:
I don't get it. how are a few million jews going to control the democratic party? The AARP probably has 50x the political pull of the jewish democrats. The teachers union probably has more pull than the jewish democrats.
If any country controls the US it is Saudi Arabia.
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Code
Guest
Saudi, without a doubt, controls more of the US than Israel.
Problem with our Suadi "support" is it consists of getting paid to look the other way.
Whereas our support for Israel is mainly out of religious commitment and the fact that it's PC to support them for fear of being anti-semite.
Problem with our Suadi "support" is it consists of getting paid to look the other way.
Whereas our support for Israel is mainly out of religious commitment and the fact that it's PC to support them for fear of being anti-semite.
nordstrom said:
C
Code
Guest
A liberal democracy in a world we have absolutely no democratic allies and that is 100% hostile towards the US.
But I think that their democratic stance is, by and large, a neccesity rather than by choice. In other words, the US would never support a jewish nation that actually enforced things as prescribed by the Old Testament.
But I think that their democratic stance is, by and large, a neccesity rather than by choice. In other words, the US would never support a jewish nation that actually enforced things as prescribed by the Old Testament.
nordstrom said:
Lao Tzu
New member
Code said:
Yeah true, they are hostile towards us. However i dont think Israel is the begin all/end all of why they hate us. Had Israel never existed they'd probably still hate the US just not as much.
I dont think the average Israeli on the street wants to live in a theocracy. Besides, alot of Israel's founders & forefathers were immigrants from western nations so they took western values with them.
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Code
Guest
Agreed that the Middle East would still be at odds in a geo-political sense, even if Israel had never been formed by the United Nations.
But then, the tension would be limited in a more in-direct fashion. Not the "flying planes into buildings" variety.
It's not myth that Israel helps shape much of the United States' foriegn policy, simply by being our "Lighthouse" ally in the Middle East. But the relationship goes much deeper and unfortunately treads on religious grounds.
But then, the tension would be limited in a more in-direct fashion. Not the "flying planes into buildings" variety.
It's not myth that Israel helps shape much of the United States' foriegn policy, simply by being our "Lighthouse" ally in the Middle East. But the relationship goes much deeper and unfortunately treads on religious grounds.
nordstrom said:
bluepeter
New member
nordstrom said:
1. The palestinians supported many of these people/causes because they were a) muslim and muslims have a problem/habit of blindly following other muslims and muslim causes and b) they were aligned against the U.S.
While the U.S. align their money/political might with countries/causes that further their interests and go against the interests of their 'enemies', many other countries in the world do the same when it comes to the U.S. 2 can play the game
2. A major beef many have with the U.S. 'you don't speak english or eat hamburgers? get outta here'
3. I wonder why?
4. Everyone knows that the U.S. supports whoever the hell they want to further their interests regardless of race, religion, colour or creed. This is the one area where you could argue the U.S. are race/religion tolerant
I'm not saying that the U.S. aligns with Israel on every issue. What you have been reading is not what intelligent muslims think. I am a muslim and think that both sides in this dispute are wrong. Suicide bombing is wrong and brutal Israeli suppression of Palestinians is wrong. My problem is that while they may not have supported Israel on 'every' front in this conflict, they have clearly favoured them over the Palestinians.
You need to understand that muslims see the U.S. as selective in their support. Why did they not step in sooner in Bosnia when muslims were being massacred. Why don't they do more to end the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians instead of catering to Israeli whims. Why do they attack muslim countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't think like this but I have to agree that the evidence adds up....
Lao Tzu
New member
Code said:
Hmm. i kindof agree but i dont too. from what i understand Bin Ladin didn't care about Israel as much as things like troops in Saudi Arabia or US culture imposing itself on Muslim land. However had the US never supported Israel maybe terrorists wouldn't hate us as bad so its a toss up.
Lao Tzu
New member
bluepeter said:
1. Agreed, but it is what it is. Who are muslims going to support in a war of words, other muslims or infidels? same with the US, who is the US going to support our allies who like us and whose culture we share or people who sympathize with our enemies?
3. im not talking just about hamburgers, im talking about open society, liberal democracy, religious freedom, technological advancement, literacy & education, etc. The Israelis have much more in common with the US on these issues than the palestinians do.
4. Im not going to deny that, and even i find it somewhat nauseating that the US suddenly opposes terrorism even though we used terrorism and supported terrorists open in the 80s in latin america & the middle east to fight communism. Buuuuut, i think the US would prefer to ally with a liberal democracy rather than a theocracy given the chance, and Israel is a liberal democracy.
We attack muslim countries because they are where the people who pose a threat to us are at. There are more muslims in Indonesia than all the middle east countries combined (more or less) but we don't invade indonesia because there really aren't any major terrorists there like Afghanistan.
Would you say the average muslim supported the US intervention in Bosnia?
C
Code
Guest
Following Bin Laden's political history is easily skewed.
Because he was US backed for a while(and Saddam who can loosely be linked to him was also US backed at the same time), so for that period of time he was US aligned (as was Saddam).
And he slowly moved away from that. And this allows Talk Heads and analysts to skew select data-sets to pretty much spin him in a good/bad/worse light.
Because he was US backed for a while(and Saddam who can loosely be linked to him was also US backed at the same time), so for that period of time he was US aligned (as was Saddam).
And he slowly moved away from that. And this allows Talk Heads and analysts to skew select data-sets to pretty much spin him in a good/bad/worse light.
nordstrom said:
the nature boy
New member
nordstrom said:
well considering the US has played roles in supporting various dictators in that region might explain why arabs are hostile towards the US.
also keep in mind there is resentment towards the west as a whole thanks to the the occupation of the middle east by the british and French... not sure who else ruled over that area.
bluepeter
New member
nordstrom said:
1. Also agree
3. While I agree kind of, why do you think the Palestinians have so little in common with the U.S. in these areas? At least partly because of Israeli suppression....
4. Don't think we disagree here
I would think the average muslim, while glad that the situation in Bosnia was resolved, would have been upset that it was allowed to go on that long and probably took a cynical view of the U.S. involvement. 'Are they intervening because it furthers their interests in some way?', 'Are they only responding to international pressure?' etc.
By the way, I am a muslim because it was important to my wife that I convert when we were married. I am not religious at all and think religion is a cancer (what we do for women!
).However, being in that world does give me some insight I likely wouldn't have had otherwise...
the nature boy
New member
give me a fucking break. that's a load of shit and you know it.nordstrom said:
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Code
Guest
The US used and currently uses it's own form of terrorism throughout the world.
Take note of the Tiger Force of Vietnam. If you think we don't have a modern day version of that, you're niave.
Take note of the Tiger Force of Vietnam. If you think we don't have a modern day version of that, you're niave.
the nature boy
New member
Code said:
or the bombing of cambodia. the only difference is that military bombers were used to kill those people (I read 600,000... probably exaggerated) while terrorists use more rudimentary means.
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Code
Guest
Well, we learned a valuable lesson from that.
In order to go unnoticed, you have to be:
1.) Unaffiliated with the US.
2.) Less effective.
So if we can't do the job ourselves, we outsource it to the terrorists we support.
In order to go unnoticed, you have to be:
1.) Unaffiliated with the US.
2.) Less effective.
So if we can't do the job ourselves, we outsource it to the terrorists we support.
The Nature Boy said:
the nature boy
New member
Code said:
now you're on to something. however we've made such a bad name for ourlseves in certain situations, that we might as well do it ourselves b/c we'd get blamed for it anyway.
C
Code
Guest
Well, in many cases we do our own work.
But generally speaking it's in areas of the world where the media is less sympathetic to, like the African continent and (in the 80's) South America.
But generally speaking it's in areas of the world where the media is less sympathetic to, like the African continent and (in the 80's) South America.
The Nature Boy said:
Lao Tzu
New member
The Nature Boy said:
No its not a load of shit. I remember when this war started you were saying 'we are probably going to impose another dictator in Iraq' and he we are and you were wrong. I think its the same thing here. True we are ignoring alot of Afghanistan's problems but we are trying to convert the government there, just like we are in Iraq, even if it is half assed.
the nature boy
New member
nordstrom said:
how the hell am I wrong. there haven't been elections yet. future elections (if they ever happen) are not considered CURRENT elections now. unless you live in a fantasy world.
the nature boy
New member
nordstrom said:
I guess we'll see. besides, it hasn't been very long since the war was over. so far we are still ruling over that place last time I checked.
Testosterone boy
New member
Seems that Mr Nordstrom has enrolled in a certain training program that frequently leads to economic vitality.
Anyone care to tell me why Congress will not authorize an investigation of the Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty in the 60's? The victims of that attack are either dead or generally devastated by the cover up.
It is not an "Isreali" control thing, it is the fact thart the power elite runs this country, especailly when the GOP has the White House, and a disporportionate percentage of the power elite are Jewish. Also the Jews do indeed control a disporportinate amount of the media. I will state here that I feel the media was used to force a confrontation betweem Saddam Hussein and George Bush Sr called the Gulf War. In return, they relinquished the closing jaws on Neil Bush regarding his S & L scandals. The fires were starting to burn him before we devastated Iraq. Not a word was said after the work was performed.
We have been pretty focused on helping out the poor power eilte for the past 24 years. They need "incentive."
Anyone care to tell me why Congress will not authorize an investigation of the Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty in the 60's? The victims of that attack are either dead or generally devastated by the cover up.
It is not an "Isreali" control thing, it is the fact thart the power elite runs this country, especailly when the GOP has the White House, and a disporportionate percentage of the power elite are Jewish. Also the Jews do indeed control a disporportinate amount of the media. I will state here that I feel the media was used to force a confrontation betweem Saddam Hussein and George Bush Sr called the Gulf War. In return, they relinquished the closing jaws on Neil Bush regarding his S & L scandals. The fires were starting to burn him before we devastated Iraq. Not a word was said after the work was performed.
We have been pretty focused on helping out the poor power eilte for the past 24 years. They need "incentive."
Lao Tzu
New member
no im not training to be a jew.
I cant tell you why there is a cover-up for the USS Liberty. i also cant tell you why there is a coverup for gulf war syndrome. i have no idea.
i really dont believe the media brought about the war, the public wanst clamoring for war the public was very anti war and anti war protests were all the media covered. Bush was looking for excuses to get rid of Saddam years ago according to Paul O'neill
I cant tell you why there is a cover-up for the USS Liberty. i also cant tell you why there is a coverup for gulf war syndrome. i have no idea.
i really dont believe the media brought about the war, the public wanst clamoring for war the public was very anti war and anti war protests were all the media covered. Bush was looking for excuses to get rid of Saddam years ago according to Paul O'neill
Testosterone boy said:Seems that Mr Nordstrom has enrolled in a certain training program that frequently leads to economic vitality.
Anyone care to tell me why Congress will not authorize an investigation of the Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty in the 60's? The victims of that attack are either dead or generally devastated by the cover up.
It is not an "Isreali" control thing, it is the fact thart the power elite runs this country, especailly when the GOP has the White House, and a disporportionate percentage of the power elite are Jewish. Also the Jews do indeed control a disporportinate amount of the media. I will state here that I feel the media was used to force a confrontation betweem Saddam Hussein and George Bush Sr called the Gulf War. In return, they relinquished the closing jaws on Neil Bush regarding his S & L scandals. The fires were starting to burn him before we devastated Iraq. Not a word was said after the work was performed.
We have been pretty focused on helping out the poor power eilte for the past 24 years. They need "incentive."
Testosterone boy
New member
nordstrom said:
Neither is MattTheSkywalker.
C
Code
Guest
I'm not pro-israel.
In fact, if it were simply a matter of giving the jews a different plot of land that is more Jew-Friendly, I'd be less animated about it.
I can't stand Israel because it displaced the palestinians AND that the jews are basically a new tyrant in an already tyrant-laden land.
In fact, if it were simply a matter of giving the jews a different plot of land that is more Jew-Friendly, I'd be less animated about it.
I can't stand Israel because it displaced the palestinians AND that the jews are basically a new tyrant in an already tyrant-laden land.
the nature boy
New member
Code said:
FLORIDA!!!!!
C
Code
Guest
I'd bomb the shit out of any nation that got any US soil.
'Cept for Rhode Island.
'Cept for Rhode Island.
The Nature Boy said:
Lao Tzu
New member
BO-DEN said:
http://www.jewishsf.com/bk001103/uselectnumb.shtml
10 -- number of Jewish Democrats in the Senate
1 -- number of Jewish Republicans in the Senate (Arlen Specter, R-Pa.)
21 -- number of Jewish Democrats in the House
1 -- number of Jewish Republicans in the House (Benjamin Gilman of New York)
78 -- percentage of Jewish voters who voted for Bill Clinton in 1996
16 -- percentage of Jewish voters who voted for Bob Dole in 1996
80 -- percentage of Jewish voters who voted for Bill Clinton in 1992
11 -- percentage of Jewish voters who voted for George Bush in 1992
79 -- percentage of Jewish voters who voted Democratic in 1998 congressional races
21 -- percentage of Jewish voters who voted Republican in 1998
And on and on. So you mean to tell me that the 20% of jewish republicans control the US? 5.2 million jews live here, that is 20%, or 1 million jews, assuming all are political. if normal standards apply i would say 500,000 are political & republican. 500,000 Jews do not control the US. maybe they have an influence but they are not in charge.
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Code
Guest
The jews, American jews, aren't the ones doing the controlling.
It's Israel firms and the Israeli government.
It's Israel firms and the Israeli government.
nordstrom said:
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Code
Guest
And to be clear. The level of control we're talking about is minimal and only related to United Nations measures and a "judge not" policy regarding their treatment of Palestinians.
the nature boy
New member
nordstrom said:
why do you continually assume that democrat jews do not support israel. I have no idea why you think this way.
super IQ
C
Code
Guest
Being formed so recently means they have a the lowest deficit to revenue of damn near all nations.
Which means more to spend on special interests.
And we're not talking about serious control. Just buying votes from the US in the UN. And ensuring the US gov doesn't get pissy over their tyranical control of the palestinians.
Which means more to spend on special interests.
And we're not talking about serious control. Just buying votes from the US in the UN. And ensuring the US gov doesn't get pissy over their tyranical control of the palestinians.
nordstrom said:
Lao Tzu
New member
Code said:
Thats more believable, the UN sec. council and gen. assembly are run on corruption and bribery.
Someone fill me in on the tyrannical control of the palestinians? i know the palestinians have had their land annexed, and that they are restricted in movement but what else is tyrannical about their treatment.
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Code
Guest
Read up on Sharon's Death Squad.
nordstrom said:
Lao Tzu
New member
Code said:
Yeah i know about them. I remember them getting in trouble for killing an innocent in scandanavia in connection with the olympic hostage issue.
Who cares though in the sense that how are they different than any other countries assassination squads? how are they different than the US's delta force or marine snipers?
BO-DEN
New member
nordstrom said:
we over threw (you know who) for murduring innocent people
just a point.
but the mid eastern counrtys now feel like we could knock them down.. which is making them start to cooperate....
israel would laugh at any threat and swear we were neo nazi's bent on world domination
BO-DEN
C
Code
Guest
Well, they aren't as good as keeping it quiet for one.
And another, the US doesn't use Delta to annex land.
And they don't randonly shoot civilians, if it's guerrilla warfware/terrorist, it's typically an accurate and quick. Not an extended (near constant) shootings.
Meaning, Delta doesn't set up shop near a village and waste anything that moves.
And another, the US doesn't use Delta to annex land.
And they don't randonly shoot civilians, if it's guerrilla warfware/terrorist, it's typically an accurate and quick. Not an extended (near constant) shootings.
Meaning, Delta doesn't set up shop near a village and waste anything that moves.
nordstrom said:
the nature boy
New member
nordstrom said:
uh, maybe because 9/11 happened. and maybe because bush wanted to go after saddam right after he got elected. israel and the jews had nothing to do with events in iraq and afghanastan.
landser
New member
I used to buy into the fact that Israel controlls the US but I don't anymore. It is absurd to think they do. I do however, consider myself an anti-semite to some extent, but even when one has views like myself, sometimes you have to step back and look at things in a more realistic sense. Israel does not and has not controlled the US.
the nature boy
New member
nordstrom said:
conspiracy theorists say all kinds of fucked up shit.
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
Hengst said:
Well, I don't know if Turkey is considered Middle Eastern but the USA did fight against the Germans and the Ottoman Empire during WWI. That's if you consider Turkey to be part of the Middle East and you consider the Ottoman Empire to be Turkey since it was mostly controlled by the Turks. Then again, it's WWI and nobody is really liking each other, and I don't think the USA entered WWI because they thought the the Ottomans didn't like the USA. I don't think the Ottomans were too happy about USA entering the war. I don't think any country would like USA getting involved in a war or affairs that wasn't theirs unless they were fighting on their side.
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fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
Hengst said:
The Middle East has animosity towards the Turkey because the Turks were a colonizing power that created the Ottoman Empire?
Which countries in the Middle East in particular are you referring to? Everybody dislikes everybody, I say let's all put on the gloves and just go at it, except for me. There is no way I'm messing up my hair.
fistfullofsteel said:
The Middle East has animosity towards the Turkey because the Turks were a colonizing power that created the Ottoman Empire?
Present day Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Isreal/Palastine come to mind. Apparently the Turks were fairly heavy handed.
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
Hengst said:
Well, it's very important to have a strong pimp hand to keep your bitches in check.
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