How did you contract HIV?

[mojaz87]

Did it ever occur to you that your view of homosexuality is discriminatory and therefore evil (and against Christianity and just about every other religion)? I take it you must not be of a Christian religion; otherwise, you wouldn't be saying something so judgmental. According to the Christian religion, anyone who judges another man will be condemned themselves...since it's not your right to judge...it's only God's right.

So my view of homosexuality is judgmental? Really? I wasn't aware of that. Because I stated my own opinion, and the opinion of many others may I remind you, I've become some kind of judgmental, homophobic, ultra-conservative freak?

You really are the type of person that makes my day. I've encountered many people with your point of view, just to let you know. Your blatant ignorance has blinded you and made you into a self-righteous machine for selectivee morality. You take it I must not be of a Christian religion because of my words? What kind of a community do you live in? It must be filled with very devout Christians who regularly pray and attend church, because most of the people who I see day to day--in real life, in the media, in our government, in Hollywood--are VERY judgmental.

Are you telling me Christians don't judge others? They don't look down on others and "pity" them because they don't believe Jesus died to have all of their sins cleansed. That is simply not the case. Christianity in this country is a joke. Statistically, Christianity may have the most members, but how many of them are truly Christians, there is no telling. Some people really think that the only thing they have to do to make it to Heaven, if they even believe in a Heaven and Hell, is to believe in Jesus. They don't have to follow anything else in the Bible, just believe that Jesus died to have their sins forgiven...that is the single most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

We as people deal with worldly challenges every day. We struggle to achieve goals. Some goals are more difficult than others. In most situations, it can be said that none of the best things we accomplish in this life come without hard work and dedication. How is it then that our eternity, the place we are going to spend the rest of time after this world is over, can be so easily achieved. By simply believing in the occurrence of an event, we achieve eternal bliss. Please, spare me the nonsense. However, I am getting away from the point.

You claim that I am being judgmental and violating Christianity. According to the Christian religion, anyone who judges another will be condemned himself? Of course. But this is not my judgment. I didn't make it up on my own, and I am not the only one saying it. The Bible clearly outlines the fact that homosexuality and homosexual acts are sinful. They are wrong. And they are unacceptable. Here are a few examples (I don't even need to type them because I'm sure you already know them, but you've convinced yourself that they don't really mean what they say):

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"

Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"

...and the list goes on. You can say what you like. You can tell me all sorts of things like, "You're taking these quotes out of context and using them to bash gays. That is strictly your opinion. Most of these quotes are prettydirect and there is no room for mis interpretation." However, it has always been the case that those who look for a loop hole will find one. If you honestly want to convince yourself that in Sodom and Gomorrha, only the act of gay RAPE was being condemned, then go right ahead and do that. However, for anyone with any kind of sensiblity or wits about them this is a non-issue. Christianity, along with Judaism and Islam are quite clear on where they stand on the issue.

Other than that, thank you for the in depth explanation on the origins of HIV, but I was already very much aware of the facts surrounding it. I realize the virus is not caused by gay sex, but it is clear that homosexuality is a significant contributor to the increasing of numbers infected with this terrible virus. A lot of it deals with the physical issue: the anus is not the most suitable location for sex. Therefore, for someone who is not accustomed to it, and even those who have been doing it for a while, bleeding can definitely be an issue. Aside from this, there is also little incentive to use condoms when there is not risk of pregnancy. Yes condoms can help in the prevention of disease/virus contraction, but when two people are confident they hav nothing and they are both mean (no risk of pregnancy) it is much easier to throw caution to the wind.

The fact that you say it's going to be very bad when the "straight" people who have contracted HIV break out into full-blown AIDS, etc....who's to say that all gays with AIDS already know their condition? That is all I have to say, and I'm sure others have their own opinions rgarding these issues. However, I think it is only fair that people know that your misguided perspective on the principles of Chrisitanity and the issue of homosexuality is not necessarily the truth. If you and other feels that Chrisitanity is only about acceptance and loving everybody no matter how grotesque their actons, it is because you are living and practicing a watered-down version of Christianity, designed to suit your particular lifestyle and requiring no effort on your part to do that which is good and pleasing to God, not just yourself. Religion is about effort and striving to better oneself, not about passiveness and compromise of the fundamental ideals of the faith.

I'm done.

 

[alanchiras]

Oh,boy - I've been away for FAR too long. The first 3/4THs of these posts are pretty much on the money and I actually have little to add to them. You can go the the AEGIS web site for charting stats of risk groups that become infected from the early 80's to today. And while there is still a lot of Gay/IV drug based HIV infections, the hetrosexual percentage is now quickly catching up with the rest of the groups. I live in Worcester, Ma. We are a small city with TEN colleges and guess what groups as a percent are exploding with initial HIV infection - Young straight college students, and senior citizens!!!!! And, the recently infected college students are so afraid of being seen regulary near an ASO, that they are not plugged in to services that they need. Also, they turn to their regular doctor for advice on treatment and don't seek out doctors and others that work all day long with HIV infected people. The possible combinations of the thirty or so HIV meds can have so many negative outcomes, that they are not getting proper standard of care for HIV infected people. I could go on for hours about this, but I think I'll stop here for right now.

As for the moral and religious angle about this, I clutch onto each copy of Free Inquiry that shows up in my mailbox every month reassuring me that all religions are a form of mythology and are used as political tools to get the masses of people to conform to a SELECTIVELY fundamentalist point of view.

OK. I'm prepared for the hate mail now. You can bring it on - i'm ready.

Good luck to you all, Alan Chiras.

 

[nybb10001]

So my view of homosexuality is judgmental? Really? I wasn't aware of that. Because I stated my own opinion, and the opinion of many others may I remind you, I've become some kind of judgmental, homophobic, ultra-conservative freak?

You really are the type of person that makes my day. I've encountered many people with your point of view, just to let you know. Your blatant ignorance has blinded you and made you into a self-righteous machine for selectivee morality. You take it I must not be of a Christian religion because of my words? What kind of a community do you live in? It must be filled with very devout Christians who regularly pray and attend church, because most of the people who I see day to day--in real life, in the media, in our government, in Hollywood--are VERY judgmental.

Are you telling me Christians don't judge others? They don't look down on others and "pity" them because they don't believe Jesus died to have all of their sins cleansed. That is simply not the case. Christianity in this country is a joke. Statistically, Christianity may have the most members, but how many of them are truly Christians, there is no telling. Some people really think that the only thing they have to do to make it to Heaven, if they even believe in a Heaven and Hell, is to believe in Jesus. They don't have to follow anything else in the Bible, just believe that Jesus died to have their sins forgiven...that is the single most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

We as people deal with worldly challenges every day. We struggle to achieve goals. Some goals are more difficult than others. In most situations, it can be said that none of the best things we accomplish in this life come without hard work and dedication. How is it then that our eternity, the place we are going to spend the rest of time after this world is over, can be so easily achieved. By simply believing in the occurrence of an event, we achieve eternal bliss. Please, spare me the nonsense. However, I am getting away from the point.

You claim that I am being judgmental and violating Christianity. According to the Christian religion, anyone who judges another will be condemned himself? Of course. But this is not my judgment. I didn't make it up on my own, and I am not the only one saying it. The Bible clearly outlines the fact that homosexuality and homosexual acts are sinful. They are wrong. And they are unacceptable. Here are a few examples (I don't even need to type them because I'm sure you already know them, but you've convinced yourself that they don't really mean what they say):

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"

Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"

...and the list goes on. You can say what you like. You can tell me all sorts of things like, "You're taking these quotes out of context and using them to bash gays. That is strictly your opinion. Most of these quotes are prettydirect and there is no room for mis interpretation." However, it has always been the case that those who look for a loop hole will find one. If you honestly want to convince yourself that in Sodom and Gomorrha, only the act of gay RAPE was being condemned, then go right ahead and do that. However, for anyone with any kind of sensiblity or wits about them this is a non-issue. Christianity, along with Judaism and Islam are quite clear on where they stand on the issue.

Other than that, thank you for the in depth explanation on the origins of HIV, but I was already very much aware of the facts surrounding it. I realize the virus is not caused by gay sex, but it is clear that homosexuality is a significant contributor to the increasing of numbers infected with this terrible virus. A lot of it deals with the physical issue: the anus is not the most suitable location for sex. Therefore, for someone who is not accustomed to it, and even those who have been doing it for a while, bleeding can definitely be an issue. Aside from this, there is also little incentive to use condoms when there is not risk of pregnancy. Yes condoms can help in the prevention of disease/virus contraction, but when two people are confident they hav nothing and they are both mean (no risk of pregnancy) it is much easier to throw caution to the wind.

The fact that you say it's going to be very bad when the "straight" people who have contracted HIV break out into full-blown AIDS, etc....who's to say that all gays with AIDS already know their condition? That is all I have to say, and I'm sure others have their own opinions rgarding these issues. However, I think it is only fair that people know that your misguided perspective on the principles of Chrisitanity and the issue of homosexuality is not necessarily the truth. If you and other feels that Chrisitanity is only about acceptance and loving everybody no matter how grotesque their actons, it is because you are living and practicing a watered-down version of Christianity, designed to suit your particular lifestyle and requiring no effort on your part to do that which is good and pleasing to God, not just yourself. Religion is about effort and striving to better oneself, not about passiveness and compromise of the fundamental ideals of the faith.

I'm done.

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.", Huh? You cut off the next few lines. It condemns anyone who eats shellfish.

Hope you haven't eaten any shellfish.....

You're completely missing my point. People like you who claim to be religious are using your religion simply to shield your hatred towards others who happen to be unlike themselves.

It's making the epidemic worse.

That was my point.

And no, I don't practice a watered down version of Christianity. George W. Bush and Osama bin Laden have convinced me that all religions are bunk. So, I don't practice ANY religion anymore. I use my mind.

I really don't care if you like gay people or not. All I care about is that I'm working to stop the progression of this disease and people like you are making that job a great deal more difficult. Basically, people like you are helping AIDS to spread.

 

[alanchiras]

Right on NYBB! Alan Chiras.

 

[qvamp]

Also mojaz, before you get into the whole 'bible quoting thing' please remember a couple of things...

1) In spite of the fact that the people in this country have decided to have Christianity be the 'dominant' religion, and that many have chosen to take it to a dark and cruel place... this country is supposed to be open to people of any religion and to practice religious tolerance. So, your book can say whatever it wants, and you can follow it if you want, but that does not give you the right to force me to live by it.

2) What the hell are you quoting? Do you honestly think the original writings said 'homosexual'? Think again... that term wasn't even coined until the 1800s. So, you are reading a rewriting of a rewriting of a.... of a translation of a... And guess what, it isn't the original word!

You really want to quote the bible? Great. Learn the languages and the culture of the times and get it right. Too lazy? Fine, there are dozens of books out there explaining the history of the bible, what was cut from the original 'God's teachings' and what was changed... and even what time periods they were changed in. Read!

Face it, YOU break 'commandments' of the bible every day (Are you clean shaven? Eat pork? Insulted your mom or dad? Wear mixed fibers? Drink milk -- let's talk about these protein shakes, huh?) that should get you stoned to death or killed or hurt in many ways. Why then have you decided to post the quotes you did and to ignore the ones that you WANT to break? Hey, the bible has been used to justify slavery, beating of women and children too! *gasp* its almost as though people rewrite these words on paper or in their minds and use it to justify their hate, prejudice and intolerance so they don't have to take responsibility for it.

Instead of trying to prove the gays deserve AIDS - grow up and think. Its a virus... it doesn't care who gets it. Your attitude is one of hate, anger and cruelty, which is what the guy at the center of your religion said is wrong. If you really need guiding principles and can't look outside of what you think is your religion, then just focus on what Jesus says and either ignore all the other crap or follow all of it... don't pick and choose.

Lastly, also remember... in their minds, Hitler, David Koresh and many other bad people were following God's words too.

 

[mojaz87]

Face it, YOU break 'commandments' of the bible every day (Are you clean shaven? Eat pork? Insulted your mom or dad? Wear mixed fibers? Drink milk -- let's talk about these protein shakes, huh?) that should get you stoned to death or killed or hurt in many ways. Why then have you decided to post the quotes you did and to ignore the ones that you WANT to break? Hey, the bible has been used to justify slavery, beating of women and children too! *gasp* its almost as though people rewrite these words on paper or in their minds and use it to justify their hate, prejudice and intolerance so they don't have to take responsibility for it.

qvamp, you display a very backwards logic. What you are saying, in essence, is that since we all make mistakes, we should not point out anything that is wrong. In fact, we should just keeping more and more mistakes. Since some people breakthe commandments, it is out of their bounds to discuss other people breaking certain commandments because they become hypocrits. This much is true, I agree. But the flaw in your argument is that it promotes passiveness regarding religion. Sure everyone mistakes, but everyone will also be held accountable for their mistakes.

If someone wants to make a forum about adultery, then I'm sure there would be people in there addressing that topic and the immorality of it as well. I never said that I was perfect, or that I don't mistakes. I never even said that I am not vulnerable to the same kind of scrutiny homosexuals are placed under but for other reasons. I expect to be held to the same standard as everyone else.

Your argument is basically a way for people to ease their conscience. It gives you relief and peace of mind to see that people around you are doing wrong, because it makes you feel like anything wrong you have done pales in comparison. If that is your defense, your wall to hide behind, then fine. Because of the discussion that was going on in this forum, I made the comments that I did. If it was another thread and some kid was talking about how he hates his parents and wishes they would die, I would call him on it as well. And if I posted something to the effect that I had erred in the way of religion, I would expect to be criticized too.

In addition, you're very incorrect to judge me and assume that I break commandments like nobody's business. Don't automatically assume everyone is like yourself (if in fact you do break commandments). It is always important to give the person the beenfit of the doubt. The fact that you would try and degrade me and make my comments appear worthless by slandering my faith and the standard to which I hold myself to, I find that very offensive. One day you will see the error in your ways. If not during this lifetime, then shortly after it.

For your information, I do not violate any of the commandments. I do not eat pork, I am not clean shaven, and I do not disrespect my parents. Parents bring you into this world, they raise you, they fund you, they support you. No one in this world should be held in higher regard than your parents. Even when they make mistakes, they are still your parents, and they still command your respect. On this pop culture "EMO, I wanna rebel, my parents just don't understand me" era, many people have got this idea that it is your right to treat your parents any way you want. In reality, it is not. People have a duty and obligation to respect their parents. I do not WANT to break any commandments. Your statement there was totally out of line. I do not know how you were raised or what your background is, but that is not at all my way of thiniking. Regardless, it is not your position to be judging other's faith or to assume that everyone is like yourself.

If people do terrible things in the name of religion, that does not put the religion at fault. The person will be held accountable for his/her actions. Just because they claim it was in the name of religion doesn't mean the religion has failed. You're right that the Bible has been used to justify all sorts of terrible things. Why do you think this is? In reality, you can twise almost anything to suit your argument, so if that is the case, why not justify our case with the Bible? The Bible is such and important document, and it crries so much weight with people around the world that of course people are going to use it to justify their actions. That doesn't mean that the Bible actually said to do this or that. It just means that the person was so bent on doing what he/she was going to do that he/she could find justification for it even in the Bible.

I really have nothing else to say to you or any of the other intellectuals who have posted here regarding religion as being a barrier to independent thought. The fact that ppl like NYbb say they like to use "their mind" or that religion is for those who can't think on their own. I really pity people like you. Your arrogance has clouded your judgment to the point where you think you are capable of acting and behaving in a manner similar to God. Who gave you your mind? Who created you? Who do you owe everything to, even your life?

I can;t believe that you would have the audacity to claim that you are capable of simply using your mind to deicde what is right and wrong. If you are referring to your conscience, then remember that your conscience is constantly under influence. Many of the things that people believe are OK today were not acceptable by any means a few hundred or thousand, for that matter, years ago. Your conscience can be manipulated and influenced, and your thoughts are not always clear. But it seems that some have strayed so far in the direction of "free thinking" that there is no way they could possibly comprehend what I am saying. I hope sincerely that you realize this error and correct yourselves. Lastly, it may interest you to know that I not a Christian either so your argument about "the guy who started my religion" does not apply either. With that statement you clearly displayed your ignorance in the realm of religion. Christianity was not originally a man-made religion. But now it has become a man-edited religion. In that sense you are correct.

I did not say that gay people should al lget AIDS. What I was saying is that in that kind of a lifestyle, does it surpise you that things go wrong. There is a rhyme and a reason to everything in religion, whether you understand it at the time or not. We would like to think we are super-advanced and know everything there is, but our lifespan is so short that we may not see the logical reasoning behind a religious matter during our lifetime. That is why it is a matter of faith and not "seeing is believing." I really have nothing more to say. You are free to think however you want for the time being. For now, I do not believe there is any compromise in our individual beliefs. Therefore, I really don;t see the point of arguing this further. Enjoy your solely thought-based and selective morality while it lasts.

 

[qvamp]

I am sorry that I assumed you break the word of the bible. You're right, I don't know what you have done. But I haven't seen you go off on the rest of the site about your religious beliefs either.

Please, feel free to write another post to the general site to show that I'm incorrect. Christianity isn't my religion, but I did some work to help you, forgive me if I get this bible-versing wrong. I have seen a number of posts on this site talking about these things, so please write a general post stating your views on drinking milk (Hebrews 5:13), wearing clothing that is considered for the opposite gender (Deuteronomy 22:5), about shaving or haircuts (Leviticus 19:27), wearing clothing of mixed fibers (Leviticus 19:19 (King James Version)), about tattoos (Leviticus 19:28) or about not respecting mom & pop (Leviticus 20:9).

Personally, I would be much more inclined to believe that you were upholding the bible if you did that, rather than looking for a way to attack categories of people who are fairly defenseless. According to what you wrote, we shouldn't permit passiveness on religious issues, and you believe all rules should be followed.

So, please, go ahead. And incidentally, there ARE forums here where guys brag about pre-marital sex (Dueteronomy 22:21-29) .. so unless you're posting there too ... your choice of attacks speak for themselves.

(and BTW I'm not a Christian, so I don't need to come up with biblical arguments to ease my conscience)

 

[cat_fish]

He and I split up and I have not seen him since 1993. I found out later that he had died. Cancer of the tongue and throat. Isn't that something? I have been living with HIV since April 1992.

THAT SUCKS! If a woman did to me what that dude did to you she wouldnt have lived long enough to die of tongue and throat cancer I would have killed the bitch.

 

[alanchiras]

Umm...folks, what do you think about this last post on this thread. I have the power to keep it or remove it. What should I do? Alan Chiras.

 

[qvamp]

Well, its not anti-poz or anti-gay, so its probably fine. But it isn't exactly woman-friendly. And it does express the anger I thnk most of us went through at some point after we found out (though a bit more graphically than it probably should).